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Doubt I'll buy Victoria 3 with this endless series of gross news out of Paradox.
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Oct 15, 2021 22:47
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Alchenar posted:No you are repeatedly misreading my posts, which I presume is whatever got you banned and forced you to re-reg. deflecting and embarrassing yourself by being wrong some more isn't particularly a good look Alchenar posted:So without really having any detail as to what's going on, rather than assume individual malice it seems more likely that Paradox just did what hundreds of other small companies that experience rapid growth have done, which is that they didn't quite get right the necessary cultural shift as they grew and had a core who kept on acting like they were a company half dozen guys taking on the world rather than a medium-to-large international enterprise with hundreds of employees. what you're saying is deifnitely clear: their culture was a-okay and great, until they got big and caught. HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:All Alchenar is saying is don't go after individuals that haven't had confirmed knocks against them and blaming or extending blame to them for the systemic culture issue at Paradox. It's not our place to do that. Definitely signal boost stories and reports, but don't witch hunt anyone who just so happens to work for the company. I wish this were all they were saying, cause then they'd be correct and not gross 
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Oct 15, 2021 22:55
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DaysBefore posted:Doubt I'll buy Victoria 3 with this endless series of gross news out of Paradox. It really took the wind out of the game's sails for me for sure.
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Oct 15, 2021 23:02
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Lady Radia posted:deflecting and embarrassing yourself by being wrong some more isn't particularly a good look No, HerpicleOmnicron5 has me right and you are deliberately misreading the very plain words you've quoted and I think I'm going to leave it there.
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Oct 15, 2021 23:06
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Mans posted:It really took the wind out of the game's sails for me for sure. You mean the coal from its boilers, surely. 
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Oct 15, 2021 23:07
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Lady Radia posted:what you're saying is deifnitely clear: their culture was a-okay and great, until they got big and caught. No, the problems likely arose and got out of control because of the growth of the company, as it usually does, and it doesn't necessarily reflect on Johan who has been there from the start/near the start (I'm not quite sure). Corporate culture becomes more and more of a problem as the company grows in size - it becomes more of an individual issue at the lower level.
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Oct 15, 2021 23:25
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I mean, when one of the core individuals who built the company has already apologized for indiscretions it starts looking way more like "has this problem been there all along" than "they didn't grow HR as they should have as they got bigger"
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Oct 16, 2021 01:28
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TheFlyingLlama posted:I mean, when one of the core individuals who built the company has already apologized for indiscretions it starts looking way more like "has this problem been there all along" than "they didn't grow HR as they should have as they got bigger" Agreed. Abuse is rarely an HR problem. HR is there to protect the company from any consequences for abuse and to paper over an existing problem. Abuse is usually a problem with leadership. (And more indirectly a problem with exploitation, hierarchy, and Capitalism.)
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Oct 16, 2021 02:43
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Mans posted:It really took the wind out of the game's sails for me for sure. I would still buy a really good game regardless who made it. Good game design deserves to make money. Regardless of if the people who made it suck. I would much rather play a good game with great content made by a piece of poo poo who deserves to be fired for the way they behaved personally, than play a terrible unfun, unoriginal, devoid of content game created by someone who’s ideology i align to 100%.
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Oct 16, 2021 03:01
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I would play neither, because there are enough good games made by people who don't suck.
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Oct 16, 2021 03:18
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SnoochtotheNooch posted:I would still buy a really good game regardless who made it. Good game design deserves to make money. Regardless of if the people who made it suck. I would much rather play a good game with great content made by a piece of poo poo who deserves to be fired for the way they behaved personally, than play a terrible unfun, unoriginal, devoid of content game created by someone who’s ideology i align to 100%. Weird dichotomy you've set up.
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Oct 16, 2021 03:43
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Jabor posted:I would play neither, because there are enough good games made by people who don't suck.
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Oct 16, 2021 03:50
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SnoochtotheNooch posted:I would still buy a really good game regardless who made it. Good game design deserves to make money. Regardless of if the people who made it suck. I would much rather play a good game with great content made by a piece of poo poo who deserves to be fired for the way they behaved personally, than play a terrible unfun, unoriginal, devoid of content game created by someone who’s ideology i align to 100%.
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Oct 16, 2021 10:31
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SnoochtotheNooch posted:I would still buy a really good game regardless who made it. Good game design deserves to make money. Regardless of if the people who made it suck. I would much rather play a good game with great content made by a piece of poo poo who deserves to be fired for the way they behaved personally, than play a terrible unfun, unoriginal, devoid of content game created by someone who’s ideology i align to 100%. There's no proof of Victoria being any of that since it hasn't been released, so if you're pre ordering you're not defending your own stance. Plus Jabor posted:I would play neither, because there are enough good games made by people who don't suck.
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Oct 16, 2021 12:10
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glad to see the paradox thread has formed a consensus around not buying any further paradox games
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Oct 16, 2021 12:23
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I don't claim to speak for the thread but I will not buy more games until I see some evidence this has been fixed. The loving swedes should know better.
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Oct 16, 2021 13:40
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Sweden isn't socialist paradise land, and swedes aren't special. It's a bunch of normal rear end people just like everywhere else. lmfao at people who still idolize Scandinavia.
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Oct 16, 2021 13:45
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As a norwegian I like to judge them. It is a family thing.
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Oct 16, 2021 13:48
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Well, I hope paradox fix this, cause I really like many of their games and Im looking forward to some that are coming
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Oct 16, 2021 14:08
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Hryme posted:The loving swedes should know better.  Hryme posted:As a norwegian I like to judge them. It is a family thing. 
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Oct 16, 2021 14:09
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Jabor posted:I would play neither, because there are enough good games made by people who don't suck. Extremely doubtful that that is true. Needs to be changed to "there are enough good games made by people who we don't know suck yet."
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Oct 16, 2021 14:12
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Another news article hit, it's pretty difficult to share since it's both in Swedish and paywalled: https://www.svd.se/tystnadskulturen-var-nastan-det-varsta "The culture of silence was almost the worst" The gist of it is PI hired a dude in 2017 who had already lost a court case over harassing women at his previous job. Surprising no one, he went on to harass women at Paradox too. Note this one guy is certainly not responsible for every complaint, this is just one particular offender. Via google translate, the format is a bit fucky and I cleared up a few errors as best I could without changing too much: quote:With several successful games, Paradox has drawn billions and expanded rapidly. But behind the scenes, dissatisfaction is widespread.- Paradox is as much a culture of silence as it can be, says a person who worked at the company for ten years. quote:SvD can now report that the company in 2017 hired a manager in a high position who had previously been exposed by women at another gaming company for unwelcome approaches and harassment. Several sources state that the man's story was known on Paradox when the decision to hire him was made, it should have commented in an internal email that went out in the company.- He had a history of sexual harassment in the gaming industry, which was not difficult to find out, says a former female colleague. In the previous workplace, several women must have felt inappropriately treated, both at work and at company parties.- He had too much physical contact with us female employees. A hand on the groin [DR - AFAIK the word could also mean "rear end"] or very close hugs, where he thrust his face into one's throat. We were several girls who talked about it, says a woman who was exposed. quote:Another former employee confirms that there have been several incidents at Paradox.- When the events were discovered, there was always someone superior who did something to a woman in the hierarchy, the person says. I also worked there for about 10 years, but I am neither of the sources mentioned.
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Oct 16, 2021 14:53
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Lmao they were forced to pay 270k to a female employee and they not only kept the guy around? They promoted him?
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Oct 16, 2021 15:12
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That was in a different company as far as I can tell from this article. Not Paradox. The person got hired to Paradox after this.
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Oct 16, 2021 15:14
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Yes, his harassments case was from his prior job.
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Oct 16, 2021 15:31
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Yeah I read that wrong, still seems crazy he was around all the way to only two months ago.
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Oct 16, 2021 15:35
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itt: paradox gets CANCELLED
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Oct 16, 2021 16:17
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hot cocoa on the couch posted:itt: paradox gets CANCELLED FRAMED!
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Oct 16, 2021 16:45
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Vichan posted:FRAMED!
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Oct 16, 2021 18:43
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Mans posted:There's no proof of Victoria being any of that since it hasn't been released, so if you're pre ordering you're not defending your own stance. I’m just saying regardless of the outcome of what paradox is or isn’t doing, if the game all of these people worked on is a good I would buy it so other games companies see what content is good, what isn’t. Also, what has so far been 100 proven that paradox as an entity is doing?
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Oct 16, 2021 18:47
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You are not, in fact, obligated to buy games made by bad people. It's fine if you do because it's a good game or something that you enjoy or whatever, policing developer behaviour isn't (or at least shouldn't be) on the shoulders of the consumer, but there's nothing saying that good games "deserve" to be bought or whatever. I do not understand why you are making an ethical thing re: markets and messaging out of it, for that is a battle you must surely be aware that you will lose.
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Oct 16, 2021 18:58
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SnoochtotheNooch posted:I’m just saying regardless of the outcome of what paradox is or isn’t doing, if the game all of these people worked on is a good I would buy it so other games companies see what content is good, what isn’t.
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Oct 16, 2021 18:58
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i'm going to buy Diablo 2 Remastered in spite of claims against Blizzard so that Sega understands my thirst for action RPGs
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Oct 16, 2021 18:59
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YF-23 posted:I do not understand why you are making an ethical thing re: markets and messaging out of it, for that is a battle you must surely be aware that you will lose. I’m just saying I don’t want to sink what’s IMO a good ship over what sounds like a single rat. Just read the article about this, so I understand it’s bropably not a single douche. It’s weird af to me the men at this company wouldn’t call out a creep who shoved his face into a hug with coworker.
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Oct 16, 2021 19:03
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Yeah, no, even from the first news stories about the union report it was very clear that it's a systemic issue.
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Oct 16, 2021 19:06
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SnoochtotheNooch posted:I’m just saying I don’t want to sink what’s IMO a good ship over what sounds like a single rat. Just read the article about this, so I understand it’s bropably not a single douche. It’s weird af to me the men at this company wouldn’t call out a creep who shoved his face into a hug with coworker.
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Oct 16, 2021 19:14
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Lady Radia posted:i'm going to buy Diablo 2 Remastered in spite of claims against Blizzard so that Sega understands my thirst for action RPGs Pretty much.
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Oct 16, 2021 19:21
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If you want to buy the game that’s fine. If the actions of Paradox as a whole colour your decision to buy the game then that’s fine too. I will be buying the game regardless if it turns out well, since it’s a game I want and it’s not completely exchangeable with another similar product. Still,Lady Radia posted:i'm going to buy Diablo 2 Remastered in spite of claims against Blizzard so that Sega understands my thirst for action RPGs If you really wanted Diablo 2 Remastered, even though it’s kinda poo poo IIRC, that’s fair enough. If you want to support a game in a niche genre to say “hey I want more of this” that’s also fair enough. If the claims against Blizzard make it distasteful for you to buy the game, that is also entirely fair. So long as people aren’t buying the game because of the claims, I can respect their choice. It is however kinda funny when someone comes in with “yeah I don’t care about what they did btw what did they do” though
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Oct 16, 2021 19:39
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:If you want to buy the game that’s fine. If the actions of Paradox as a whole colour your decision to buy the game then that’s fine too. I will be buying the game regardless if it turns out well, since it’s a game I want and it’s not completely exchangeable with another similar product. Still, I was making a satire post because I briefly forgot that it was dead. I agree with the idea individual consumer decisions don't really impact stuff, but LOL at coming in just to say "oh it's just ONE bad apple, im gonna buy it no matter what, PS what else happened"
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Oct 16, 2021 19:41
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Lady Radia posted:I was making a satire post because I briefly forgot that it was dead. I agree with the idea individual consumer decisions don't really impact stuff, but LOL at coming in just to say "oh it's just ONE bad apple, im gonna buy it no matter what, PS what else happened" You seemed adversarial and I often poo poo post a nonsensical retort whenever someone makes a definitive statement. It’s a personality flaw I have. I’ll go ahead and admit I regret my first post lol. I actually do think the poo poo said about paradox is super hosed up. I love paradox games and it’s a huge bummer to know that people making the games I like are letting this poo poo happen. quote:"I have been to meetings where I'm the only woman in the room, and I say 'Hey, I really think we should go this direction, based on my experience', and someone looks at me, and they say, 'You know what, you're just here as a token hire. So I think you should be quiet about this'," one woman said. Imposter syndrome is a huge fear for most engineers and for a woman engineer to hear that would be fuckin horrifying. I don’t understand how that would not immediately get the one who said that fired.
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Oct 16, 2021 20:01
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