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Presto posted:OK, so it's not just me. I thought I was having a senior moment, because a lot of the dialog came across like "Arblegarblemumble Harkonen blah". I definitely had some trouble too when we saw it at home. When we saw it in theaters though their speakers were balanced really well I guess as we were able to understand everything clearly.
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Nov 1, 2021 03:19
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I saw it in a pretty sick Dolby theater, and everything was loud and clear, except for when Paul had his tent vision freakout. I had a hard time making that out.
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Nov 1, 2021 03:24
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Vagabong posted:I was wondering if anyone found that the scenes of Paul's Terrible Purpose failed to communicate that the incoming jihad was a bad thing. It makes sense if you've read the book, but my non-book reader mate thought it was just standard heroic prophecy stuff; aside from the piles of burnt corpses that aren't directly connected to Paul there's not much else giving off bad vibes if your expecting a traditional hero narrative. I thought the score really helped to set the mood. Those visions did not have a heroic feel, to me, because of the discordant music pulsing underneath. The vision in the tent had an especially dark vibe... Presto posted:OK, so it's not just me. I thought I was having a senior moment, because a lot of the dialog came across like "Arblegarblemumble Harkonen blah". I watch pretty much everything with subs, now...
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Nov 1, 2021 03:45
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Just saw Dune in a regular theater, finally. Dang! It was really good! I read the book back in college but didn't really fall in love with it, but I really have a soft spot for the Lynch film because it was like always playing on the SciFi channel when I was in high school. My partner came too and she hadn't seen the old one or read the book. She followed the plot really well and asked for some clarification afterward, but it confirmed what she'd intuited. Super glad there is going to be part 2!
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Nov 1, 2021 04:44
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Vagabong posted:I was wondering if anyone found that the scenes of Paul's Terrible Purpose failed to communicate that the incoming jihad was a bad thing. It makes sense if you've read the book, but my non-book reader mate thought it was just standard heroic prophecy stuff; aside from the piles of burnt corpses that aren't directly connected to Paul there's not much else giving off bad vibes if your expecting a traditional hero narrative. i feel the shot of paul looking down dispassionately at the bloody fremen cheering on caladan was enough to make it feel somewhat ominous
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Nov 1, 2021 05:27
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Mega Comrade posted:There's a driving scene in prisoners which did this to me too. drat I just watched this it was really good too, you talking about the bit at the end with Loki in the car with the daughter? because if so, agreed. also totally not the prisoners I was expecting, I was expecting a prison movie.
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Nov 1, 2021 05:37
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emanresu tnuocca posted:https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/the-secret-history-of-dune/ I wanna read the 50s book about brits having sex in the Middle East now
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Nov 1, 2021 05:58
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Xiahou Dun posted:As you noted, "padishah" (correct spelling) is a real, if slightly obscure, word. That they pronounce correctly in the standard way for English, Farsi, Turkish and Urdu, with primary stress on the first syllable and secondary stress on the ultimate. Tbf Jessica does pronounce Helen ‘ellené’ in the French fashion, which I like to think is a nod to Charlotte Rampling being French.
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Nov 1, 2021 09:24
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Arglebargle III posted:The book is kind of like that too which I think is why Dune Messiah is important for shaking the reader and going "Hey! All that stuff about billions dead is important!" Yeah, in the first book it's ultimately just visions and a guy thinking to himself "hey this doesn't look so good I have to stop it" and later being like "well I couldn't stop it."
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Nov 1, 2021 09:36
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I was watching original Dune last night, the theatrical cut. I liked it a little more than the first time I saw it, but it's really quite bad narratively, especially compared to the new movie. This shouldn't be surprising, since the movie was mangled in editing, but man, it really shows. The pacing is totally bizarre. It actually takes longer to get everyone to Arrakis than both the new movie and the miniseries even though it's far shorter than both of them. It takes almost an hour and a half for Paul to join Stilgar and the Fremen. Then there's only 45 minutes left, and the movie races through plot points at the speed of light, comically so. The first part is the easiest to compare to the new one. In the new one they focus on the family unit; there's a lot of time spent on Paul and Jessica, then some spent on Paul and Leto, and a little bit less on Leto and Jessica. None of this really happens in the 1984 one. Paul and Leto have one dialogue scene and one little moment; the family is only seen together once. Paul doesn't really spend time with Jessica until the Harkonnen invasion, and after they join the Fremen, I'm not sure they exchange a word ever again. Leto and Jessica's relationship doesn't exist outside of a 15-second flashback to the two of them in bed. The family relationships are basically non-existent. A lot of time is spent on secondary characters instead, but they're largely irrelevant to either plot or drama. Kynes has one scene, seemingly setting up various things, and then just dies, pretty much offscreen. Duncan is entirely useless. Thufir gets a decent amount of screentime, and then they just cut him out of the movie. You can even see him in the last scene, before he vanishes again because they cut out his death scene. Yueh gets more screentime than in the new movie, but I didn't like his character or find him sympathetic, he's more of an obvious two-faced coward. Alia is just inexplicable (though tbf it's a weird character in general). It's very strange to me that they had a 3 hour cut of the movie, needed to cut an hour out of it, and decided "we need all these side characters in here." I don't know that the new movie will do a better job at this overall, but I didn't like the structure of the antagonists. The movie begins with the emperor, and then tells you he's actually subservient to the guild... and then they both disappear, to focus on someone even more subservient, The Harkonnens. They are the most interesting and threatening villains. But then near the end of the movie, the emperor reappears and the Harkonnens are turned into full cartoons and figures of ridicule; the Baron dies a comical and stupid death. The emperor is not threatening at all since the actor's just an old guy and he's already been shown to be scared of the guild. The guild being the ultimate power could be interesting, except they barely have screentime and aren't even there in the final scene. Every villain is undermined by the movie, which just makes it feel like Paul never actually has any meaningful challenge. And then of course there's the broader criticism of "what the hell is this about", "why is Paul an actual messiah who's making it rain," etc. but that's been done to death. Pedro De Heredia fucked around with this message at 10:49 on Nov 1, 2021 |
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Nov 1, 2021 10:43
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Boris Galerkin posted:What I took from that scene was that he didn’t feel ok with people murdering in his name but also that he was cool with murdering the fucks who murdered his family. His smug look on the spaceship overlooking his army says as much. Anyway, then he joins up with a bunch of natives and I just don’t see how you could see anything but him being a white savior when his future visions show him leading his new people to glory. Narrator: It wasn't glory thotsky posted:I would love to know if this was a studio note, or if it came from Denis or one of the other writers. I think they even skipped "the sleeper must awaken". That's not in the book! Arglebargle III posted:In the book House Ginaz (Duncan's first employer) was recently done dirty in much the same manner as House Atreides and the Landsraad didn't lift a finger. That's not in the book either! (At least not any of the ones written by Frank) GreatGreen posted:Also, I'm a fan of Jason Momoa but it felt like he was poorly cast for his role. Momoa is naturally too laid back and cavalier to be believable as a highly disciplined military pilot / combat expert / deep cover spy. Like I get what they were going for but that role should have gone to somebody who naturally leans more towards being something like an rear end in a top hat with a heart of gold than just straight up teddy bear surfer bro. Idaho isn't a deep cover spy, he's a guy who's good at fighting and sexing the ladies
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Nov 1, 2021 12:16
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I interpreted the vision of the pile of burning bodies in the desert to be Paul seeing the now of the Harkonnen massacre, not of the future Jihad. But the sound mix in general made the tent freakout hard to understand.
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Nov 1, 2021 12:24
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I get stuff like that, but they must have really dropped the ball on the sound mix with "a warrior religion worshipping at the shrine of my father's skull" and such.
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Nov 1, 2021 12:31
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For a movie that pays this much attention to detail, it was very weird to see the Shadout Mapes sheath the Crysknife without drawing blood. Especially since later on, they do get this correct.
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Nov 1, 2021 12:35
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After viewing the movie once in a cinema and watching parts of it at home I really think it's fair to say that movies really shouldn't have such extreme dynamics in their audio, at home I constantly had to adjust my volume knob and in the cinema that loud parts were borderline painful. I'm sure in some perfectly balanced Dolby approved theater it's all perfect and super immersive but whatever, theaters shouldn't be painfully loud and home viewing shouldn't involve constant volume adjustments. Denis.
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Nov 1, 2021 12:40
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emanresu tnuocca posted:After viewing the movie once in a cinema and watching parts of it at home I really think it's fair to say that movies really shouldn't have such extreme dynamics in their audio, at home I constantly had to adjust my volume knob and in the cinema that loud parts were borderline painful. I'm sure in some perfectly balanced Dolby approved theater it's all perfect and super immersive but whatever, theaters shouldn't be painfully loud and home viewing shouldn't involve constant volume adjustments. Denis. All movies should come with at least one extra mix designed for basic home setups. If I can't understand dialogue on my TV speakers then a ball has been dropped. Looking at you Expanse season 1. Conversely, I loved how loud an intense Dune's sound mix got in the cinema. It was just on the edge of being too much but it made for a hell of an experience. I'm not looking forward to rewatching it on my TV for that reason - half the experience will be lost. And even if I had a setup capable of recreating it I'd be a lovely neighbour if I tried.
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Nov 1, 2021 12:45
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Alchenar posted:No those visions are all pretty important. The opening establishes Chani as a real person who exists. The first vision of her lets us know that Paul has a psychic thing going on and that his dreams are more than just dreams. The next couple of visions of her stop us forgetting she exists and maintain her presence in the film so that we recognise the importance of the moment when she appears to Paul for real. And her first real words to him are to threaten his life, which is amusing.
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Nov 1, 2021 12:54
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Alchenar posted:I interpreted the vision of the pile of burning bodies in the desert to be Paul seeing the now of the Harkonnen massacre, not of the future Jihad. But the sound mix in general made the tent freakout hard to understand. Which is a shame that the films kinda fails to communicate Paul's fear of the future he sees, because his attempts to avoid it adds tension to a story where the protagonist becomes omniscient halfway through.
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Nov 1, 2021 13:06
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Vagabong posted:Which is a shame that the films kinda fails to communicate Paul's fear of the future he sees, because his attempts to avoid it adds tension to a story where the protagonist becomes omniscient halfway through. I think I would have liked a scene on Caladan early on where Leto seriously considers avoiding the trap and going into exile. It's a fine line because this film interprets Leto as only realising when he lands on Arrakis just how unescapable the trap is, and there's already the Paul-Leto scene about answering calls so those things are all floating around there. The film is clear in the fight with Jamis that Paul is crossing some form of threshold, but I don't think it is clear at all what that is beyond that threshold.
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Nov 1, 2021 13:13
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Alchenar posted:The film is clear in the fight with Jamis that Paul is crossing some form of threshold, but I don't think it is clear at all what that is beyond that threshold. It's an interesting fight in a mechanical sense. The Marvel Narrative Convention says it's a boss fight, which is supposed to be lengthy, closely-matched, and accompanied by some kind of moment of self-realized superpower at the end. In this film, it's short, lopsided, the moment of self-realization was a grim hallucination that happened well beforehand, and as a cherry on top it forces the good guy into a killing that's the first step down a path of blood that he doesn't want but can't avoid.
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Nov 1, 2021 13:32
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Are people talking about a different scene than the one in the tent where he sees visions of a holy war in his name and has a fit and cries and yells at his mother that she made him a freak? What scene made you think "the jihad will be good and Paul is not worried about it"?
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Nov 1, 2021 13:50
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Mom, you made me a freak... you know I hate spoilers about the awesome wars I'm gonna do!!
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Nov 1, 2021 13:55
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Captain von Trapp posted:It's an interesting fight in a mechanical sense. The Marvel Narrative Convention says it's a boss fight, which is supposed to be lengthy, closely-matched, and accompanied by some kind of moment of self-realized superpower at the end. In this film, it's short, lopsided, the moment of self-realization was a grim hallucination that happened well beforehand, and as a cherry on top it forces the good guy into a killing that's the first step down a path of blood that he doesn't want but can't avoid. Oh yeah I love the fact that we don't get Marvel Narrative Convention Boss Fight. Particularly because that's a deliberate choice for the film because the fight in the book is a bit more even; Paul is capable of countering Jamis's attacks but his training in shield combat means his counter is always too slow - which is why it looks to the Fremen like Paul is playing with him. Making it very clear that the real crisis for Paul isn't whether he can beat Jamis but the fact that he really doesn't want to have to kill is much better.
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Nov 1, 2021 14:02
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Reflecting as a non-viewer, I have a question on the politics and Leto that hopefully the book had something to say on. With the Atreides being assigned Arrakis, what does Leto envision his plan as being? He thinks he's being set up to fail the spice production quotas, and his plan is to make peace with the Fremem to maximize production. Assuming that all goes well in a year or two, what then? Does he think the Fremen alliance will become military to set up independent power? Or does he want to sit back, collect cash, and set up Paul to maybe even marry into the imperial family?
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Nov 1, 2021 15:10
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Pedro De Heredia posted:The fact that she's real, and he meets her, and joins her group, is payoff. There's a massive payoff in the Chani visions. Pay attention to which hand is bloody and holds the knife. It switches from left to right. It's how Paul knows what trick Jamis is going to try to pull at the end of their duel. It's something I felt the movie did very well. Paul's visions are showing him both big events and little details.
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Nov 1, 2021 15:12
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2house2fly posted:Are people talking about a different scene than the one in the tent where he sees visions of a holy war in his name and has a fit and cries and yells at his mother that she made him a freak? What scene made you think "the jihad will be good and Paul is not worried about it"? It wasn’t that scene alone. Add in the next scene where you’re like “oh the visions he saw didn’t happen [that way]” and “yeah I’ll willingly join you natives now that I’ve bested your fighter” and I don’t get that the Jihad is something terrible as opposed to him leading an army to massacre the people that hosed with his family. All the book readers here are telling me the jihad thing isn’t a positive for Paul but I really think you need to be a book reader to get that.
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Nov 1, 2021 15:15
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Boris Galerkin posted:Well ok, so the Fremen bribe the Space Guild not to put satellites in orbits. That’s fine and all but I’m asking why House Arteides, a space faring civilization capable of producing spacecraft and going to conquer/settle a planet, who fully knows that it’s a trap and that they’ll be attacked by the previous conquerors of the planet, who’s only avenue of getting to said planet was via space transport, did not send up their own satellites and other defense systems? Because when they great houses ask the guild for permission to put ships or satellites in orbit of Arrakis, the guild says no
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Nov 1, 2021 15:20
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If I remember correctly the book has a small subplot about Leto trying to get a weather satellite in orbit and he just gets repeatedly stonewalled by the Guild
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Nov 1, 2021 15:30
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Aeolusdallas posted:Because when they great houses ask the guild for permission to put ships or satellites in orbit of Arrakis, the guild says no It was not explained in the movie that the space guild was the ultimate authority.
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Nov 1, 2021 15:31
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What's the deal with the hunter-seeker thing that was sent to kill Paul? The guy in the wall looked like he had a headset that was allowing him to control it, so why did Paul moving slow/standing still stop the drone from targeting him? Wouldn't the wall guy just see Paul?
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Nov 1, 2021 15:45
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Can you use The Voice to command the sand worms?
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Nov 1, 2021 15:49
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Flappy Bert posted:Reflecting as a non-viewer, I have a question on the politics and Leto that hopefully the book had something to say on. The book doesn't really tell you any more about his plan. But he wouldn't have been able to be become independent (CHOAM, the guild and the landsraad wouldn't have allowed it). I think you're supposed to assume that Leto would've kept playing the political game because that's all he knew.
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Nov 1, 2021 15:53
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I thought Leo recognised the fact that the Fremen could be a game changer, hence his talk of 'desert power'. I can't remember how much he knows of the Saduakar's real origins from a brutal prison planet, but he does seem to realise that the Fremen's similar background make them an underexploited resource that might give him the power to face up to the Emperor. That, along with the fact that the spice trade will make him incredibly wealthy means that if he can survive the initial trap of Arrakis he can come out much stronger then he was going in. I might be mixing up what Paul and Leto know however.
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Nov 1, 2021 16:02
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Flappy Bert posted:Reflecting as a non-viewer, I have a question on the politics and Leto that hopefully the book had something to say on. The plan was to have enough Fremen enlisted with the Atreides to counter the inevitable Sardaukar, something that both Thufir and Leto think is a 1:1 ratio. They figured they could get their needed five battalions in a few months given Idaho's excellent relationship. The regulars could handily have crushed their Harkonnen counterparts. What actually happened was that two legions, probably about 4x that, of Sardaukar along with the Harkonnen army dropped in about ten days after the family made planet fall. They had little fortification up, their retreat had to be improvised which put them in caves that the Harkonnens brought explosives to collapse on them, and the house shields which would have still bought considerable time were sabotaged. After the invasion they intended to tie the emperor up with the Landsraad hopefully with living sardaukar in evidence that he had his hand in the cookie jar. After that, dig in, use obscene spice money to terraform the place, win the population in earnest and keep building power. Complications fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Nov 1, 2021 |
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Nov 1, 2021 16:06
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Hashtag Banterzone posted:The book doesn't really tell you any more about his plan. But he wouldn't have been able to be become independent (CHOAM, the guild and the landsraad wouldn't have allowed it). I think you're supposed to assume that Leto would've kept playing the political game because that's all he knew. I think the book implies that Leto's plan is more aggressive than in the film: it's clear that Leto and the Atreides leadership are a) building up a force that could take on the Emperor, and b) are counting allies in the Landsraad. In fact it's made explicit by [some issue I've forgotten] that the Landsraad is split between Leto and his supporters and the Emperor plus his supporters. The Baron is nominally camp Emperor but really more because of the feud with the Atreides. It's implied that Leto is deliberately destabilising the system. In the film that's been reduced to 'the Duke is popular and the Emperor is a jealous man'. Rather than actively agitating against the Emperor it seems that film Leto has just made the mistake of being popular enough to be the nail that stands out.
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Nov 1, 2021 16:07
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Flappy Bert posted:Reflecting as a non-viewer, I have a question on the politics and Leto that hopefully the book had something to say on. On Leto's plan: The alliance with the Fremen was always intended to be military in nature. The Fremen are somewhat unique in that they're capable of going toe-to-toe with the Sardaukar, something that almost no other military force in the galaxy can, and as it turns out there's millions of them. With that sort of force behind him, Leto hoped to be sufficiently powerful to stand up to the Emperor directly, and possibly to force the Emperor to let Leto marry into the Emperor's family.
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Nov 1, 2021 16:07
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fadam posted:What's the deal with the hunter-seeker thing that was sent to kill Paul? The guy in the wall looked like he had a headset that was allowing him to control it, so why did Paul moving slow/standing still stop the drone from targeting him? Wouldn't the wall guy just see Paul?
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Nov 1, 2021 16:10
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Leto's pretty aware they're setting him up to die from the start and is pretty much just faith his employees are simply more competent than the forces against them and hope that he can ally with the Fremen.
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Nov 1, 2021 16:10
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The movie does a bad job portraying just how big of a deal Yueh's betrayal is and imo it's the biggest fault in the actual script of the movie
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Nov 1, 2021 16:26
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Long story short though was that the move to Arrakis was something that Leto thought was the set up to a more political death blow, not the final lowering of his head to the not quite literal execution block.
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Nov 1, 2021 16:27
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