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Yami Fenrir posted:I'm a big fan of how this just entirely ignores day 2 and is mostly based on setup/mod spec at LYLO too. It is entirely based on day 2. You saw merk got caught in a gambit so decided to get in front of it. It’s a super common scum strategy. I’ve done it many times. Hell last time I did it with steak merk caught on to it because it’s so obvious and luckily we killed merk before he could convince the rest of town on it. Also toalp catching you talking about who did what night kills was day 2. So let’s be clear. I think you are scum 100% based on how you approached merk on day 2 and on how much you are leaning on a doctor claim to clear you.
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Nov 20, 2021 23:32
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Voodoofly posted:I love that your defense is that scum never bus, especially in a situation where their scum mate was caught through night actions, and that a jailor precludes a scum doctor. Yeah okay you're scum. My defense is that I deliberately kept the vote on merk when there was an actual viable alternative (imo) on bif. Also if you thought about things for more than 2 seconds you'd realize I could literally claim to have docced anybody else instead N3.
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Nov 20, 2021 23:32
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Yami Fenrir posted:Beet, i'd like to hear from you too. Who do you think should be the votes for today? i want to have a think on it more. the night berfore hammer, whilst on the turps, i had a gut feel on deadmeet and was tossing up sk between bif, yourself and voodoofly. i posted about my feel on deadmeet actually. but when i woke i wasn't sure anymore. i could have voted either way yesterday and was ultimately swayed by toalpaz very easily because i was not confident in my own reads. this is not me blaming toalpaz, mind you, i have only myself to blame. like i have a lot of odd feelings about a lot of people, like the you effectively knowing bif's alignment from the get go, but you're an uncountered doc and your claims thus far make sense. but i have trouble moving on from that. so i think about bif, who i've flipped my feelings on once already, but was thinking yesterday 'they probably could be SK' but let's go with meen who's play to date wasn't looking crash hot. voodoofly i don't have a great read on and tbh, when people substitute in it really throws me. i had no read on tommu early game. so the only person i feel good about atm is you, yami. so i'm left with bif, deadmeet and voodoofly to go with. i'd probably vote deadmeet 1st, bif 2nd, voodoofly 3rd.
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Nov 20, 2021 23:33
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but yes, still wanting to reflect and not rush it.
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Nov 20, 2021 23:33
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Yami Fenrir posted:There literally is a missing kill even. umm there's one explanation i can think of?
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Nov 20, 2021 23:34
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Yami Fenrir posted:Also scum had a protective role, it's called a Jailor Yeah you would have to be SK instead of scum. I don't think it makes sense for town to have no doctor in a game with scum and SK both against them, though. Starting to feel a little better about Deadmeat cause I'd forgotten the 'roar' posting, which I could see an earnest newb sticking to D1 just to be cute. Jumping the gun too early in LYLO is a mistake even vets make so I don't find his misstep there too sus. Think it's between Beet and Voodoo then.
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Nov 20, 2021 23:35
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Bifauxnen posted:Yami - Mr Hyde to the Dr Jekyll. B oh my!
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Nov 20, 2021 23:36
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Voodoofly posted:I love that your defense is that scum never bus, especially in a situation where their scum mate was caught through night actions, and that a jailor precludes a scum doctor. For my own benefit, could you explain to me how night action gave away the scum. Because I seem to have all the deductive reasoning of a baby.
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Nov 20, 2021 23:36
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hambeet posted:i want to have a think on it more. I like this a lot post actually. Anyway yeah I buddy up with bif probably a bit more than is healthy but the reason I mostly trust Bif right now is actually the N2 track - Bif went nowhere on a night where we know a) Merk used a busdrive and b) b- presumably jailed someone (likely meen). So if bif were a baddie, they would have been a killer on either the scum OR the SK side, but they did not kill.
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Nov 20, 2021 23:36
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Yami Fenrir posted:I cant go into specifics if i want to have any chance of preventing another death but Hyde is part of my role restrictions. I specifically said that instead of targeting restrctions for that reason. The hyde mechanic is why i knew i didnt stop a kill. ahh ok
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Nov 20, 2021 23:36
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Yami Fenrir posted:Yeah okay you're scum. Yes, resorting to calling people dumb for not taking your word. And meen was dumb too and didn’t think about it for voting you yesterday? If you think I’m scum cool vote me. If you think it’s scummy to question your actions then vote me too. But you are trying to defend your self with hyperbole and “it’s so obvious” and questioning people’s intelligence and it’s either just an old trope or scum behaviour.
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Nov 20, 2021 23:37
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Voodoofly posted:So let’s be clear. I think you are scum 100% based on how you approached merk on day 2 and on how much you are leaning on a doctor claim to clear you. Ok it's Voodoo. Voodoo is SK so thinks Yami has to be scum instead of the much more reasonable thought that Yami must be SK.
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Nov 20, 2021 23:38
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Bifauxnen posted:Yeah you would have to be SK instead of scum. I don't think it makes sense for town to have no doctor in a game with scum and SK both against them, though. I personally am leaning Voodoo a lot more right now, the points of suspicion he raised earlier are loving terrible (like I said, most of them are mod/setup spec) and voodoo is leaning into the replacement excuse way too hard. I didn't like their play the previous day either, and let's not forget they immediately went for soft defense on merk d2 too. While now accusing me of bussing when I did my level best to ensure it doesn't hit an alternate lunch. It stinks.
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Nov 20, 2021 23:39
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Bifauxnen posted:Ok it's Voodoo. Voodoo is SK so thinks Yami has to be scum instead of the much more reasonable thought that Yami must be SK. I have no idea who the SK is. I think yami is scum because I think scum would have pushed out to bus merk once the sandwolf mason thing happened. You and yami are the first two to really push it and I don’t think you are scum.
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Nov 20, 2021 23:40
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Voodoofly posted:Yes, resorting to calling people dumb for not taking your word. And meen was dumb too and didn’t think about it for voting you yesterday? No seriously, literally why would I have claimed to have docced Maer N3? When I could have just claimed to have docced Toal N3 instead? And thus entirely avoid the point of suspicion around doccing a person that died anyway.
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Nov 20, 2021 23:40
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Bifauxnen posted:Wonder if he's really the SK and that's why he got so especially pissy about me mentioning him  i did not get especially pissy about you mentioning me. i didn't even get specially pissy or even just plain pissy. it was a pretty bad case you tried to force and a few others agreed to that point. you are again trying to mischaracterise it / me like 4 days later. bif. ur wrong. it's okay to move on now.
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Nov 20, 2021 23:41
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Bifauxnen posted:Ok it's Voodoo. Voodoo is SK so thinks Yami has to be scum instead of the much more reasonable thought that Yami must be SK. Unless you are reading that 100% as “I think they are 100% scum” as opposed to “I think they are scum based 100% on” which is more just walking home and phone posting.
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Nov 20, 2021 23:43
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Yami Fenrir posted:There literally is a missing kill even. There are two potential missing kills. But you also say that your role seems to have some sort of recharge or other restriction so why would missing kills show that you are stopping them?
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Nov 20, 2021 23:45
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hambeet posted:
Oh right right right, sorry, you roll out the whole steamroller juggernaut routine to crush everything into the ground over one person voting you at the very start of D2, when there wasn't much else to go on or look at yet, but you always make sure to keep up your infuriating tone of playing it like you're too cool and above everything rather than sounding 'pissy', please excuse me. You're one of only four people I have left to consider now so it's kinda best not to forget about it! I'm leaning towards Voodoo now already but Jesus
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Nov 20, 2021 23:48
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Voodoofly posted:There are two potential missing kills. But you also say that your role seems to have some sort of recharge or other restriction so why would missing kills show that you are stopping them? It's a lot more relevant with the scum jailor being dead now. Also, having a second kill go through would literally lose town the game as nontown be equal to town. So I'm fairly sure I stopped a kill last night. I really feel like you have not been thinking things through at all and are just looking for reasons to push people.
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Nov 20, 2021 23:48
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Yami Fenrir posted:It's a lot more relevant with the scum jailor being dead now. Yami I totally agree that Voodoo has been making weird wrong pushes too long for his replacing in to still serve as an excuse. But "only one kill doesn't mean you stopped it" isn't one of them. Toal was pretty much confirmed town so I could totally see both SK and scum deciding they didn't want to get stuck in LYLO with them.
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Nov 20, 2021 23:54
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Bifauxnen posted:Oh right right right, sorry, you roll out the whole steamroller juggernaut routine to crush everything into the ground over one person voting you at the very start of D2, when there wasn't much else to go on or look at yet, but you always make sure to keep up your infuriating tone of playing it like you're too cool and above everything rather than sounding 'pissy', please excuse me. i didn't juggernaut or steam roll anything? i highlighted in two posts what was wrong with what you were saying, and then i had bants and jokes from then on. this is not 6 years ago of loudest voice wins. idc if you want to reflect on it today in your voting decision, i just feel the need to correct the record when you say i got pissy, when it was you who went tunnel vision because i had the audacity to call out the bad case you were making. it's like if i had let it go without pointing out the flaws, you'd have thought i was town and moved on? that's not true and you know it. so trying to paint a justification of your initial bad case based solely on my reaction is pretty lol.
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Nov 20, 2021 23:55
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actually it's not lol.. it's unlol. antilol.
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Nov 20, 2021 23:56
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Why is my push on yami wrong. Reread beet I don’t think they are scum. Maybe SK it would probably be between beet and meat if I had to choose but I really think yami is scum here and is laying it on way too hard about how the doctor claim is definitive and that voting merk can’t be a bus. Hell squids just ended with sand winning on a major bus. I’ve rode a bus like what happened with merk many times. Meen also thought yami was scum. Meat already voted yami once today so I guess I don’t see how I’m not thinking things through and how I’m just pushing for no reason.
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Nov 20, 2021 23:58
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Yami Fenrir posted:I cant go into specifics if i want to have any chance of preventing another death but Hyde is part of my role restrictions. I specifically said that instead of targeting restrctions for that reason. The hyde mechanic is why i knew i didnt stop a kill. Yami Fenrir posted:It's a lot more relevant with the scum jailor being dead now. i might be confusing the days you're referencing here.... but?
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Nov 21, 2021 00:02
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Yeah yami doesn’t say a thing about merk or minus day 1. Day 2 starts with throwing shade on toalp and “if I was a mod I don’t put an SK into a 15 player game”. It’s not until toalp has openly said how merk got bus driven than yami then starts to push on merk. I absolutely think that was a bus.
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Nov 21, 2021 00:03
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Bifauxnen posted:Yami I totally agree that Voodoo has been making weird wrong pushes too long for his replacing in to still serve as an excuse. But "only one kill doesn't mean you stopped it" isn't one of them. Toal was pretty much confirmed town so I could totally see both SK and scum deciding they didn't want to get stuck in LYLO with them. Oh I don't mean to push Voodoo over that. I am just, personally, sure that I stopped the kill. What I do find suspicious about Voodoo there is that the missing kill doesn't seem to make them pause at all. I feel like town would be far more hesitant (like, you know, both you and beet are being right now). I think Voodoo's overextending here trying to get a protective role out.
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Nov 21, 2021 00:05
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hambeet posted:i might be confusing the days you're referencing here.... but? I know I did not stop a kill Night 2. I'm reasonably certain I stopped a kill last night.
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Nov 21, 2021 00:06
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okay thanks, i thought that's what it might have been when i saw the post about last nights kill, but i wanted to clarify.
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Nov 21, 2021 00:07
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Voodoofly posted:Yeah yami doesn’t say a thing about merk or minus day 1. Day 2 starts with throwing shade on toalp and “if I was a mod I don’t put an SK into a 15 player game”. Yeah that's called processing new information. An action assumed to be cop/vig being busdriven away is a goddamn terrible look and got me started on reading merk in the first place.
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Nov 21, 2021 00:08
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i'm going to vote bif because they're being really mean to me this game
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Nov 21, 2021 00:11
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bif that's a joke
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Nov 21, 2021 00:12
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hambeet posted:i'm going to vote bif because they're being really mean to me this game I did that with taste last game. We lost.
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Nov 21, 2021 00:12
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Oh yeah let's also not forget about this:Voodoofly posted:Anyone have brief summary of why bif and merk are scum? To which I linked my case. Voodoofly posted:Brief was not the right word. They clearly read my case! But then never commented on any of it. No, instead they're soft defending merk! Hell, Sandwolf even pointed it out way back. Voodoofly posted:I don't see merk not being voted today, but why is merk doing this if he is scum? Toalp is saying scum will die. I can see scum taking the that toalp was bluffing, but if so I'm not going to then use a busdriver to mess with the results. It feels like it outs way too much information too early in the game for no real upside. Voodoofly posted:Sure, that is possible. But: Voodoofly posted:Feels somewhat pointless to answer this but, yes? I don't think merk would run a gambit like that as scum. I think of merk as keeping it simple and playing the odds. no need to bus or make wild plays when you can just lay on your numbers, and considering it didn't look like he had any heat on day 1 why try to make a big move if it isn't necessary? But then eventually vote them anyway, but only after Merk claimed 3P. Voodoofly posted:Ok yeah I'll vote merk. Like, read their post history again and tell me that Voodoo, at any point, did anything but defend merk. There are more terrible suggestions like this one: Voodoofly posted:Honestly the only thing I’m wondering is if it’s better to execute bif on the off chance that hum is an executioner and maybe leaves the game for fulfilling a win condition. It’s like a two for one execution. Voodoofly posted:I don’t know. Nothing about her feels scummy so far. I hadn’t read her closely yesterday before merk claimed as I was just starting my read of merk at the time. Also nothing about her posts today pinged me. Voodoofly posted:Giving the town more executions is super powerful. If we have questions about more than one player why waste two days? Voodoofly posted:##vote hum Read this sequence again. Voodoo suggests killing Bif, who they don't even believe is scum, on the off chance it removes an executioner hum 
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Nov 21, 2021 00:13
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hambeet posted:it's like if i had let it go without pointing out the flaws, you'd have thought i was town and moved on? that's not true and you know it. so trying to paint a justification of your initial bad case based solely on my reaction is pretty lol. Prolly not for a while no, but other stuff would have a better chance to seem more compelling and grab me if you weren't all "BUT I WHITE NOISE POST ALL THE TIME, THEREFORE HOW COULD YOU EVER DARE POSSIBLY THINK ANY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE POSTS HAD A SCUMMY TONE TO THEM, YOU MUST BE SCUM FOR EVEN UTTERING THE WORDS 'WHITE NOISE' QED" Saying it's 'solely' on your reaction is more bullshit, I was just vaguely wondering from that tone if you could be scum, and the hammer vote seeming so opportunistic at a point where you had a great excuse of doing it for the lulz was the reason for my vote. Your reaction just made me dig in harder after that and now you're doing it again.
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Nov 21, 2021 00:14
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Ugh but yeah Voodoo seems more likely now I think, I'm just going to be extremely mafia hungover again if it was actually Beet
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Nov 21, 2021 00:15
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Bifauxnen posted:Ugh but yeah Voodoo seems more likely now I think, I'm just going to be extremely mafia hungover again if it was actually Beet I think Voodoo is probably the remaining scum. If that is true I'm not entirely sure who the SK would be. Maybe it's Deadmeat though - that instant vote on the doctor seems a bit strange by a newbie if they were townie. But that's something for later probably.
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Nov 21, 2021 00:17
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So if was suggesting executing bif I would have voted bif. I brought it up because bif (or someone) was asking about whether we want to keep a third party executioner alive and I said no. I then said the only thing that might make sense is if executing bif meant hum left the game but that would need a lot of things assumptions to ring true and with hum already caught in a lie it was probably impossible to ever trust that would work even if hum tried to admit it after.
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Nov 21, 2021 00:18
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Bifauxnen posted:Ok that's a better point You know the exchange that ended with this. I like how yami skipped my post about “consider my vote on hum” but not wanting an early hammer because hum was close to hammer.
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Nov 21, 2021 00:20
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Are you sure?Voodoofly posted:Honestly the only thing I’m wondering is if it’s better to execute bif on the off chance that hum is an executioner and maybe leaves the game for fulfilling a win condition. It’s like a two for one execution. Because this looks like you were suggesting to vote bif. Either way this is a terrible thought process that doesn't make sense for a townie to have either way. Which is exactly why I questioned you back in the day. Why even float such an idea?
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Nov 21, 2021 00:21
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