|
Siivola posted:I remembered I own a copy of Aftermath I've never finished and good grief it sucks real bad. I was perusing my local library to see if they had any old EU books, but the only Star Wars book they could find was Aftermath. Hard pass.
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2021 16:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 03:39 |
|
|
I remember when Aftermath came out, some guy went crazy because Wendig quoted the "Buy the ticket, take the ride" line from Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, and it proved that finally Star Wars books had become real literature because only someone with a deep literary knowledge would be able to quote Hunter S. Thompson. Didn't it come out that Wendig had been helping shield his friend Warren Ellis for a while, before all the Ellis accusations went widespread?
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2021 16:41
|
|
|
Chuck Wendig has written several books on writing, including 500 Ways To Tell a Better Story (2012) and The Kickass Writer (2013).
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2021 17:07
|
|
|
I read the whole trilogy because there wasn’t a whole lot of other Star Wars going on at the time, but I do not care for Wendig’s writing. He’s also terminally online if I remember right.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2021 17:16
|
|
|
Casimir Radon posted:He’s also terminally online if I remember right. Putting it very mildly. He also really pushed the "if you like the old EU, you're a racist misogynist" line and had the great notion that if you spent money on the old EU you were a racist because you could have been using that money to donate to Syrian refugees (and of course spending your money on the very progressive and inclusive Disney EU was a different story). This makes it all the funnier that Disney fired him for being such an rear end in a top hat. On a different note, I just recalled that Aftermath had a bit where the Sith cultist talked about how Palpatine learned that the origins of the Sith's power came from a planet in the Unknown Regions. After Rise of Skywalker came out, this seems pretty clearly like an idea for Exegol was being seeded, and made me wonder how long in advance that part of the sequel plot had been around, especially since (at least from what I remember) there's no Exegol type planet in Treverrow's draft.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2021 04:47
|
|
|
I only made it a few pages into Aftermath. Never before or since have I bounced off a writing style so viscerally.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2021 05:49
|
|
|
Chairman Capone posted:On a different note, I just recalled that Aftermath had a bit where the Sith cultist talked about how Palpatine learned that the origins of the Sith's power came from a planet in the Unknown Regions. After Rise of Skywalker came out, this seems pretty clearly like an idea for Exegol was being seeded, and made me wonder how long in advance that part of the sequel plot had been around, especially since (at least from what I remember) there's no Exegol type planet in Treverrow's draft. No, but Aftermath was written when TFA was coming out, so Wendig met with Abrams and others at Lucasfilm about what they had "planned". Abrams appears to have given him some of his ideas for a basic outline of the state of the galaxy and what everyone was up to. This likely included Palpatine, the Empire, the First Order, all that stuff, at least in the vaguest sense. Granted, not all of that would have ended up being used when Trevorrow was in charge of Episode IX, but there was a lot of background stuff in ANH that wasn't used in the movie itself either (like Palpatine originally being a Nixon like politician that was being controlled by the Sith, of which Vader was just one), because Lucas himself retconned since it didn't make it into the actual movie, so Trevorrow would have just been following in a long standing Star Wars tradition of ignoring what wasn't on screen. Then, when Abrams was put in charge again, it kind of makes sense he'd go back to what he was originally thinking, whether you agree with it or not. It's a matter of the sequel trilogy being both not planned out and planned out depending on when you look at it, and those two contradicting each other at times.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2021 19:39
|
|
|
Reading report: Working my way through the Jedi Academy trilogy. It's... ok. it's kind of jarring going from Zahn's crisp characterization of the OT and others to Anderson's dialogue, which usually feels too wordy, and sometimes immature (Han is probably his weakest take). I think a comic adaptation would suit the trilogy a lot more, since Anderson is typically a comic writer. There are some stand-out moments though. Being deep down in the Spice Mines of Kessel was genuinely creepy, as is the Maw stuff. An okay book so far, I'll be done with it in another day or two probably.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2021 02:43
|
|
|
Crazy Joe Wilson posted:Reading report: Working my way through the Jedi Academy trilogy. It's... ok. it's kind of jarring going from Zahn's crisp characterization of the OT and others to Anderson's dialogue, which usually feels too wordy, and sometimes immature (Han is probably his weakest take). I think a comic adaptation would suit the trilogy a lot more, since Anderson is typically a comic writer. There are some stand-out moments though. Being deep down in the Spice Mines of Kessel was genuinely creepy, as is the Maw stuff. Oh dear god, you’re doing what? Good luck, I guess.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2021 03:52
|
|
|
JAT is entertaining trash. If they're only on the first book they've still got a lot of crazy to go through.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2021 04:24
|
|
|
Chairman Capone posted:Putting it very mildly. He also really pushed the "if you like the old EU, you're a racist misogynist" line and had the great notion that if you spent money on the old EU you were a racist because you could have been using that money to donate to Syrian refugees (and of course spending your money on the very progressive and inclusive Disney EU was a different story). This makes it all the funnier that Disney fired him for being such an rear end in a top hat. Mr Bones is his only good contribution to SW. JAT is goofy as gently caress but so much better compared to the poo poo that the Troy Denning writing club was churning out at the end. Anderson at least wanted you to have fun reading it, instead of wanting you horribly depressed. I’d consider a reread in the new year.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2021 06:26
|
|
|
How many homosexual characters were there in Legends? I know that Goran Beviin and his husband were in Traviss's Legacy of the Force books, and there's Juhani who ended up being gay due to a bug in KOTOR where she would only react romantically to a female PC. Are there any others?
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2021 06:31
|
|
|
There might have been some more towards the end, but no real major characters I don’t think. Wendig did also have Snap’s aunt be married to another woman, but I don’t think he went and cringed up their relationship. Edit: Han and Chewie were living in a sky house on Bespin together in Zorba the Hutt’s Revenge. Where they owned The Most Comfortable Chair Ever Designed. Casimir Radon fucked around with this message at 06:46 on Dec 23, 2021 |
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2021 06:35
|
|
|
There was an Imperial character in the (second) Han Solo Trilogy who was pretty clearly implied to be gay, but being it was the mid-90s it was just an implication.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2021 06:41
|
|
|
I recently grabbed this hardcover version of the Crispin trilogy they put out when Solo came out. Quality on it’s pretty good. Pages are slightly thinner than regular hardcover paper, but it’s nowhere near the cheapass Bible paper that you’d expect. Only thing I wish they’d done is insert the Daley trilogy books in their proper places. In the paperback of Rebel Dawn Crispin had notes that said Interlude: Han Solo’s Revenge takes place during this break. This new hardcover marks the interlude but it’s with a few vague paragraphs that might not actually be Crispin’s or Daley’s writing. They also don’t mention the Daley books when they come up. I’m planning to eventually do a reread and read the Daley books when I get to those points.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2021 06:54
|
|
|
The Daley books are really good. And also interesting in that Daley was as close as there was to being the first "EU continuity guy" for his role in the various different EU projects before the EU even formally existed.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2021 07:00
|
|
|
Crazy Joe Wilson posted:Reading report: Working my way through the Jedi Academy trilogy. It's... ok. it's kind of jarring going from Zahn's crisp characterization of the OT and others to Anderson's dialogue, which usually feels too wordy, and sometimes immature (Han is probably his weakest take). I think a comic adaptation would suit the trilogy a lot more, since Anderson is typically a comic writer. There are some stand-out moments though. Being deep down in the Spice Mines of Kessel was genuinely creepy, as is the Maw stuff. Good luck. I on the other hand picked up my copy of Christie Golden's Dark Disciple, and it still holds up. I think I'll have to get a D+ sub and rewatch some TCW next.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2021 10:59
|
|
|
Siivola posted:I on the other hand picked up my copy of Christie Golden's Dark Disciple, and it still holds up. I think I'll have to get a D+ sub and rewatch some TCW next.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2021 12:41
|
|
|
I've not noticed any continuity problems, it's a proper Canon novel. It's a complete rewrite of the Quinlan Vos stories from the old Republic comic series, and I appreciate that because I really dislike everything Ostrander and Duursema have done.
Siivola fucked around with this message at 12:59 on Dec 23, 2021 |
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2021 12:55
|
|
|
There's a lot of references to stuff that was established in the comics and books which isn't canon anymore but is kind of implied to be by virtue of that hinting at it. IIRC it was done and dusted way gefore Disney announced the EU wipe, llike that weird novel about Sheev and Vader on Ryloth for "reasons".
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2021 15:15
|
|
|
Casimir Radon posted:I wouldn’t say all that much in the old EU can even be construed as problematic these days. Meanwhile Wendig, a woke legend in his own mind, is having Sinjir say crass stuff about being able to suck the armor plating off a hull. The old EU certainly lacked quality gay dialogue like that. He certainly feels like an adherent of the Joss Whedon school of writing, with everything that implies. I get what you're saying (I don't remember the line you're referring to, though I don't doubt you that it's there), and the comparisons to Whedon hurt my soul, but I genuinely love Sinjir. He's one of my favorite new canon characters, I thought he had a well done arc, and I hope we're not done with him yet (though we probably are). He was a lot of fun. I just wish he was in better books. Arquinsiel posted:There's a lot of references to stuff that was established in the comics and books which isn't canon anymore but is kind of implied to be by virtue of that hinting at it. IIRC it was done and dusted way gefore Disney announced the EU wipe, llike that weird novel about Sheev and Vader on Ryloth for "reasons". Lords of the Sith. Which, given the recent arc on Bad Batch, and the importance of Ryloth, has some pretty self evident "reasons". Ryloth is "important" moving forward.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2021 15:20
|
|
|
Siivola posted:KJA's comic writing is just as bad as his prose. It's been ages since I read one of his comics but I'm pretty sure his dialogue is just as bad, his twists equally hackneyed, and to top it off he has no room for exposition so things just happen one after another. I generally agree with this re: KJA, but I do think that Tales of the Jedi: Redemption is an extremely solid story. Though I also think it's a case of a broken clock being right twice a day. I will say that on a personal level, besides his questionable writing talent, KJA's response to the Sad Puppies adopting him a few years ago rubbed me wrong (basically consisting of him saying something along the lines of "well, just ignore their politics, I'm happy they got my nominated!").
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2021 20:48
|
|
|
Sorry to double-post, but in related news, look at this Christmas gift that some Lucasfilm production crew got this year: https://imgur.com/gallery/XCnFpfv
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2021 23:57
|
|
|
Chairman Capone posted:On a different note, I just recalled that Aftermath had a bit where the Sith cultist talked about how Palpatine learned that the origins of the Sith's power came from a planet in the Unknown Regions. After Rise of Skywalker came out, this seems pretty clearly like an idea for Exegol was being seeded, and made me wonder how long in advance that part of the sequel plot had been around, especially since (at least from what I remember) there's no Exegol type planet in Treverrow's draft. Based on the dates of concept art in the Rise of Skywalker art book and various BTS videos, Exegol seemingly only entered the picture a couple of months before filming started. In Abrams' preliminary drafts, Palpatine was actually being resurrected beneath the Jedi Temple on Coruscant, and the First Order Fleet was being constructed in space.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 02:15
|
|
|
They should have just done Byss since they were ripping everything else off from Dark Empire. Would have been a lot more visually interesting. Forgot about KJA just shrugging his shoulders when a bunch of Nazi weirdos decided he was cool. Is that dumb culture war still going on?
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 02:25
|
|
|
Casimir Radon posted:They should have just done Byss since they were ripping everything else off from Dark Empire. Would have been a lot more visually interesting. The Treverrow draft used Kuat and the orbital ring construction yard from the EU, which would have been cool to see. The confrontation being under the Jedi Temple was also in the Treverrow draft. As for the Sad Puppies, I think they folded a few years ago, but I think Vox Day is still around.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 02:53
|
|
|
Robot Style posted:Based on the dates of concept art in the Rise of Skywalker art book and various BTS videos, Exegol seemingly only entered the picture a couple of months before filming started. In Abrams' preliminary drafts, Palpatine was actually being resurrected beneath the Jedi Temple on Coruscant, and the First Order Fleet was being constructed in space. I truly wonder where the "Jedi Temple built on top of Sith shrine" bit of lore originated from because I remember reading about that in the Tarkin novel released in 2014. Curiously, I think that's where we got Sheev's first name too.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 04:06
|
|
|
I could swear I've read that in a book or comic that had Isard in it, but I can't keep all these Star Wars straight.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 09:11
|
|
|
The Sith originating from the Unknown Regions was in TOR wasn't it?Cross-Section posted:I truly wonder where the "Jedi Temple built on top of Sith shrine" bit of lore originated from because I remember reading about that in the Tarkin novel released in 2014. Curiously, I think that's where we got Sheev's first name too. It was a part of the unfilmed Clone Wars episodes but I don't know if that's where it came from.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 09:35
|
|
|
Doctor Spaceman posted:The Sith originating from the Unknown Regions was in TOR wasn't it?
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 11:58
|
|
|
I think the 'True Sith' empire may be the source of the confusion there. TOR establishes that in the wake of the Great Hyperspace War, the remnants of the original Sith empire fled into the Unknown Regions to rebuild a new Sith empire there. 1000 years later, Revan and Malak later came across this True Sith empire in their fight against the Mandalorian crusade, were turned to the dark side by the Sith emperor, and sent back to wage war against the Republic as a vanguard for a coming invasion by the True Sith. Revan and Malak broke free from the will of the emperor and established their own Sith empire in known space, before being defeated again. 300 years later, the True Sith finally invade, reclaim Korriban and a chunk of the outer rim, and TOR starts some years after that with the galaxy in state of cold war between the Sith and the Republic. Later, it's discovered that the Sith emperor secretly also founded another empire out in the Unknown Regions, which uses a mix of Sith and Jedi aesthetics and is set up as a third-party for Sith and Jedi to ally against in the finest of MMO traditions. Slashrat fucked around with this message at 14:35 on Dec 24, 2021 |
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 14:30
|
|
|
thrawn527 posted:Oh dear god, you’re doing what? Siivola posted:KJA's comic writing is just as bad as his prose. It's been ages since I read one of his comics but I'm pretty sure his dialogue is just as bad, his twists equally hackneyed, and to top it off he has no room for exposition so things just happen one after another. See, I actually really enjoy his Tales of the Jedi series. It reeks of 90s comic vibes, in a good way. The only problem I had with it was I felt the whole Exar Kun becoming a Dark Lord of the Sith came way too quick, and was resolved way too quick. Needed another 5 issues inbetween meeting him and his fall to make it work I think. And like another poster said, the final mini-series, Redemption was real good. Jedi Academy is a cool enough premise, if it gets much worse I'll probably just stop and get back to Zahn stuff. Or I, Jedi. I actually remember my brother having a Star Wars book in the family home when I was a kid, he hasn't touched it in decades, so I asked him to mail to me. Turns out it's The Crystal Star. Crazy Joe Wilson fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Dec 24, 2021 |
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 19:15
|
|
|
Slashrat posted:I think the 'True Sith' empire may be the source of the confusion there. drat sounds like some stupid poo poo that retroactively ruins the stories of the kotor games, who would have expected this from an mmo
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 19:30
|
|
|
Reading Wookiepedia articles about stuff that was established for TOR you’ll come across some cool stuff once in a while. Unfortunately an MMO is a terrible way to tell a story. Lots of work wasted on the incorrect medium.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 19:34
|
|
|
Tbf the "Revan and Malak went to the Unknown Regions and encountered the True Sith" started with KOTOR 2, though it was Drew Karpyshan's crappy writing that explicitly made it so they were corrupted by the Emperor and killed off the Exile for no good reason 
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 19:52
|
|
|
Doctor Spaceman posted:It was a part of the unfilmed Clone Wars episodes but I don't know if that's where it came from. The idea of the Jedi Temple being built over a dark side shrine was originally invented by Matt Stover for Traitor, but it's one of those things where Lucas seems like he independently came up with the idea for Clone Wars. Knowing Luceno, him using it in the Tarkin book was probably him trying to integrate both of those ideas. Crazy Joe Wilson posted:See, I actually really enjoy his Tales of the Jedi series. It reeks of 90s comic vibes, in a good way. The only problem I had with it was I felt the whole Exar Kun becoming a Dark Lord of the Sith came way too quick, and was resolved way too quick. Needed another 5 issues inbetween meeting him and his fall to make it work I think. And like another poster said, the final mini-series, Redemption was real good. Jedi Academy is a cool enough premise, if it gets much worse I'll probably just stop and get back to Zahn stuff. Or I, Jedi. Just remember that KJA didn't create Tales of the Jedi. The first two volumes were written by Tom Veitch only, and the third volume was co-written by him and KJA as part of their efforts to tie together their related stuff from TOTJ, Dark Empire, and Jedi Academy. It's only from the fourth Tales volume onwards that it's KJA writing alone. From what I remember, KJA invented Exar Kun as part of the Jedi Academy books at the same time that Veitch was working on Tales of the Jedi. They started talking and decided that since KJA was writing about an ancient Dark Jedi, Veitch would let him work on a special issue of Tales of the Jedi incorporating Exar Kun into the Ulic Qel-Droma story, and what was initially just supposed to be a one-off issue then spiraled into KJA slowly taking over the series.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 20:16
|
|
|
It’s really dumb that they haven’t reissued TOTJ in hardcover. Also dumb that we never got any novels from the era, excepting the TOR tie-ins. The comics move way too quickly, and major events often take place over a couple of pages. I wish we’d gotten a more intimate look at those stories.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 20:25
|
|
|
Crazy Joe Wilson posted:Or I, Jedi.  To be honest, I, Jedi has its moments. I'm pretty sure Corran has a sense of humour, and I always appreciate that in a Star Wars character.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 20:35
|
|
|
I, Jedi is fine. I would finish up the TJA trilogy first though since the first half of the book is a retcon of the whole thing.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 20:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 03:39 |
|
|
If you get a chance, since you already like Stackpole's work, you might also want to grab the Rogue Squadron series. Corran's adventures start there and continue in I, Jedi. They also transition smoothly to Wraith Squadron, which is a super solid series. RIP, Aaron Allston.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2021 20:52
|
|