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kater
Nov 16, 2010

Known nevernudes: me

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The Colonel
Jun 8, 2013


I commute by bike!

ninjewtsu posted:

Much like when there are other problems in a show (be they with the visual direction, voice acting/sound design, or writing) just because we can not affect change does not mean we can't complain or potentially discuss a problem here, in the something awful subforum dedicated to talking about anime.

Personally, when I hear about an anime or am considering watching an anime, it makes me feel incredibly gross every time I have to ask myself "what exactly is my tolerance level for underaged sexualization?" This is not a question I must ask myself exclusively for anime (I've recently gotten into watching riverdale which has certainly brought the question up), but it comes up waaaaay more often, and seeing that tossed around casually seems like the point where it's worth bringing up in conversation. I'm not of the belief that watching anime or posting in adtrw makes someone a pedophile, but part of that is we really shouldn't just brush this kind of thing under the rug when it comes up.

At the same time, hopefully everyone here is aware that sexualizing high schoolers is gross (maybe I'll get some flack for this but imo, that includes if their character bio has the number 18 next to their age instead of 17 if it's still in a high school centric setting). Self flagellating over it every time wouldn't be a fun atmosphere to post in either, but I have no idea where the middle ground is that acknowledges this and doesn't normalize it while also treating everyone involved like adults who are aware of the content of their shows. I just know I've not been the most fond of how it's handled here, which admittedly is way better than other internet discussion forums.

i wasnt commenting on your post i was commenting on marumaru saying they read articles about how fanservice in seinen manga is because of japanese culture

i dont care if someone's bothered by it i'm not the fanservice defense force you can feel how you do

Willo567
Feb 5, 2015

Cheating helped me fail the test and stay on the show.
I love it when White Americans tell Japan that they need to fix their culture, while the U.S. is deeply rooted in systematic racism.

Thinking back to that one lovely webcomic artist with the bear avatar saying that the U.S. needs to send Japan to sensitivity training while telling people who live outside the U.S. who criticizes it to STFU

Willo567 fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Feb 22, 2022

Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012

Willo567 posted:

I love it when White Americans tell Japan that they need to fix their culture, while the U.S. is deeply rooted in systematic racism.

Thinking back to that one lovely webcomic artist with the bear avatar saying that the U.S. needs to send Japan to sensitivity training while telling people who live outside the U.S. who criticizes it to STFU

That sure sounds like some whataboutism.

gimme the GOD DAMN candy
Jul 1, 2007
all cultures are lovely in beautiful and unique ways.

Strange Quark
Oct 15, 2012

I Failed At Anime 2022

Willo567 posted:

I love it when White Americans tell Japan that they need to fix their culture, while the U.S. is deeply rooted in systematic racism.

Thinking back to that one lovely webcomic artist with the bear avatar saying that the U.S. needs to send Japan to sensitivity training while telling people who live outside the U.S. who criticizes it to STFU

Sir are you white

Willo567
Feb 5, 2015

Cheating helped me fail the test and stay on the show.

Strange Quark posted:

Sir are you white

Yes, but I don't try to act like my culture is morally superior to others

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012

ninjewtsu
Oct 9, 2012

Is the sexualization of high schoolers a cornerstone of japanese culture? I know there's some significant differences in how they treat high school but I dunno if this is normalized in broader japanese culture so much as it's normalized in just, like, anime.

mdct
Sep 2, 2011

Tingle tingle kooloo limpah.
These are my magic words.

Don't steal them.

Willo567 posted:

I love it when White Americans tell Japan that they need to fix their culture, while the U.S. is deeply rooted in systematic racism.

Thinking back to that one lovely webcomic artist with the bear avatar saying that the U.S. needs to send Japan to sensitivity training while telling people who live outside the U.S. who criticizes it to STFU

Real quick:

This is one of the classic logical fallacies. It's, as mentioned, called Whataboutism and the observations made by using it are almost exclusively worthless.

Believe it or not, two things can be bad at the same time.

Terrible Opinions
Oct 18, 2013



Willo567 posted:

Yes, but I don't try to act like my culture is morally superior to others
It's probably be a good first step to not assuming that every creepy thing in a country's media is some intrinsic part of their culture.

Willo567
Feb 5, 2015

Cheating helped me fail the test and stay on the show.

Terrible Opinions posted:

It's probably be a good first step to not assuming that every creepy thing in a country's media is some intrinsic part of their culture.
Yeah, I should have thought about that, and was really lovely on my part.

I'm sorry about that and my knee jerk whataboutism and dismissing criticism

Willo567 fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Feb 22, 2022

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime

dogsicle posted:

after episodes like 2 and 5, have your expectations not been sufficiently set? it's a horny series.

I was expecting the horniness, not the pedobait character to be the object of it

Nemo2342
Nov 26, 2007

Have A Day




Nap Ghost

Coaaab posted:

the fully nude high schooler that looks younger than that?

That was the chapter that nearly made me drop the manga initially. If I hadn't had more chapters to read I don't know that I would have given it another chance (though in the end I am glad I did).

kater
Nov 16, 2010

It was a funny joke you don’t need to obsess over it.

Willo567
Feb 5, 2015

Cheating helped me fail the test and stay on the show.

kater posted:

It was a funny joke you don’t need to obsess over it.
I haven't seen Dress Up Darling myself, but if people find it creepy, it probably is and should call the show out on it.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

Willo567 posted:

I haven't seen Dress Up Darling myself, but if people find it creepy, it probably is and should call the show out on it.
i like how wildly youve swung from 'this is their culture do NOT act superior' to 'actually if someone finds it creepy it objectively is'

I Am Fowl
Mar 8, 2008

nononononono

chumbler posted:

Wolf's crush on Kuroitsu is cute as well. Also I noticed that Marin spent most of the time shown during their house data looking at Gojo. It was a good touch.

I liked how Wolf broke free of the illusion because "Hey! Miss Koroitsu wouldn't misgender me!"

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012

Tabletops posted:

I was expecting the horniness, not the pedobait character to be the object of it

fair enough, i definitely set my expectations pretty hard and fast just from the dress measuring episode.

Willo567
Feb 5, 2015

Cheating helped me fail the test and stay on the show.

Endorph posted:

i like how wildly youve swung from 'this is their culture do NOT act superior' to 'actually if someone finds it creepy it objectively is'

I was being an idiot and had a knee jerk reaction - I should have read the post more and not accidentally imply that Japanese culture is like that.

I want to be called out when I say something stupid so I can learn from the experience

Willo567 fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Feb 22, 2022

Namtab
Feb 22, 2010

Can’t wait to be able to make a new mod thread tbh

Coaaab
Aug 6, 2006

Wish I was there...

dogsicle posted:

fair enough, i definitely set my expectations pretty hard and fast just from the dress measuring episode.
I think my mind at this point has distinguished underwear from swimwear, even when removed from the context of the beach/pool. And I think the show never explicitly mentions that Gojo/Marin are 15 (though I think the manga does)

Motto
Aug 3, 2013

mdct posted:

Real quick:

This is one of the classic logical fallacies. It's, as mentioned, called Whataboutism and the observations made by using it are almost exclusively worthless.

Believe it or not, two things can be bad at the same time.

otoh calling out logical fallacies by name makes you a nerd

Coaaab
Aug 6, 2006

Wish I was there...
"Gentlemen, you can't call people nerds in here, this is the anime forum!"

The Colonel
Jun 8, 2013


I commute by bike!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7L_T0CCdx0s

Acerbatus
Jun 26, 2020

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

ninjewtsu posted:

Is the sexualization of high schoolers a cornerstone of japanese culture? I know there's some significant differences in how they treat high school but I dunno if this is normalized in broader japanese culture so much as it's normalized in just, like, anime.

It's not exactly a cornerstone but it does happen outside of anime, more in 'fandom' spaces like idol culture.

Putting aside the western issue with sexualization of minors in the west (Consider the whole 'barely legal' porn thing, as if 18 was totally okay while 17 wasn't), child porn being illegal in Japan is relatively recent, probably within the lifespan of every single person here, having happened in 1999. And that was only the production/distrubition of it! Possession wasn't illegal until 2014. I had to check wikipedia to confirm the year, so it might be off a bit.

That doesn't mean the average Japanese person thinks it's okay or anything; I can't even begin to guess what the acceptance rate of that would be compared to other countries. There's probably a middle ground between being a total prude and being totally okay with the current status quo where highly detailed scenes of highschoolers in swimsuits don't even register to the average weeb, though I don't have the answer for what that is.

Also worth remembering that anime is pretty mainstream these days.

Acerbatus fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Feb 22, 2022

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

toddlers in tiaras exists. however, so does vividred operation. therefore i am moving to the vatican, a city free of sin.

Terrible Opinions
Oct 18, 2013



Endorph posted:

toddlers in tiaras exists. however, so does vividred operation. therefore i am moving to the vatican, a city free of sin.
Sorry it's American culture. No sense complaining while America remains sexist.

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime
Destroy America so we can destroy the world

Stink Billyums
Jul 7, 2006

MAGNUM
go into any convenience store in japan and the magazine rack is full of bikini clad high schooler cover girls, nobody's giving an anime character a second thought.

Supremezero
Apr 28, 2013

hay gurl

Coaaab posted:

I think my mind at this point has distinguished underwear from swimwear, even when removed from the context of the beach/pool. And I think the show never explicitly mentions that Gojo/Marin are 15 (though I think the manga does)

The show does explicitly say that they're first year high schoolers, so they would, at oldest, be 16, which isn't really improving things at all.

kater
Nov 16, 2010

I love the idea that someone would be okay with whatever if the ages, which haven’t been mentioned and don’t exist, were two or three numbers higher.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Supremezero posted:

The show does explicitly say that they're first year high schoolers, so they would, at oldest, be 16, which isn't really improving things at all.

Technically, since Japanese high school is non-mandatory, first years could be much older. It's not likely, but it's quite possible.

For a current manga example, Ichiro in Shonen Jump's "Kokosei Kazoku" is 45.

Acerbatus
Jun 26, 2020

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Endorph posted:

toddlers in tiaras exists. however, so does vividred operation. therefore i am moving to the vatican, a city free of sin.

I missed a couple of important words there, yeah.

Willo567
Feb 5, 2015

Cheating helped me fail the test and stay on the show.

Endorph posted:

toddlers in tiaras exists. however, so does vividred operation. therefore i am moving to the vatican, a city free of sin.

Don't forget that child pageants also exists and poo poo like Honey Boo Boo.

Acerbatus
Jun 26, 2020

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
For all the poo poo it got I think that one thing on Netflix, cuties or whatever, was supposed to be a critique of that.

Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012

Willo567 posted:

I was being an idiot and had a knee jerk reaction - I should have read the post more and not accidentally imply that Japanese culture is like that.

I want to be called out when I say something stupid so I can learn from the experience

Maybe read more and post less.

kater
Nov 16, 2010

Really if you wanna have a conversation about uncalled for creepy poo poo Akebi is right there.

Terrible Opinions
Oct 18, 2013



kater posted:

I love the idea that someone would be okay with whatever if the ages, which haven’t been mentioned and don’t exist, were two or three numbers higher.

Tabletops posted:

I was expecting the horniness, not the pedobait character to be the object of it
:thunk:

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kater
Nov 16, 2010

Is that what people are talking about or is it the leads being sixteen. Excuse me while I wash my feet.

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