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No, not really. There was a six-year gap in the series there with no releases whatsoever, for one. The other thing is that Persona 3 divests from most of the trappings of the series prior, sure, but it builds something new in their place at least. That's not what was being advocated for. "They should remove the main thing that makes this game unique and turn it back into another generic SMT spinoff" is a weird thing to ask for.
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Mar 29, 2022 23:08
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| # ? May 6, 2024 19:51 |
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Arist posted:No, not really. There was a six-year gap in the series there with no releases whatsoever, for one. The other thing is that Persona 3 divests from most of the trappings of the series prior, sure, but it builds something new in its place at least. That's not what was being advocated for. I'm not going to design a whole game premise in my brain for the purpose of this argument, though. Anything I would come up with is just speculation and would exist for you to pick apart despite having no influence on any outcomes. Like, removing the calendar system doesn't remove the whole 'persona' thing, or the setting being a contemporary high school as its jumping-off point, or learning about these characters and their inner workings via dialogue and their reactions to things going on around them, etc. They made a drastic jump from 2 to 3, I don't think your argument that it can't happen again because a time gap makes any sense.
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Mar 29, 2022 23:12
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The last Persona worth playing was Eternal Punishment.
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Mar 29, 2022 23:13
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They could adapt a system similar to how Strikers functioned. A calendar system less constrained by social links/confidants but party unity and certain events being checkpoints Not saying that’s better but it could work
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Mar 29, 2022 23:15
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also say what you want but Idk how the pacing is predictable, the three games with the life sim calendar are very differently paced lol (especially 3)
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Mar 29, 2022 23:15
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It's the primary vector through which you engage with the game, I don't think it's unreasonable to question why you're saying they should get rid of it if you don't even have any idea of what you actually want them to do instead. I am deeply critical of the Persona games, this isn't blind defense, I just don't think it makes any sense to say they should just remove their core gameplay identity.
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Mar 29, 2022 23:15
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The calendar system was not a super-unique idea, though. It's existed in other formats and particularly the stats-building dating sim games it borrowed directly from. My argument is that Persona doesn't mean "calendar system" and that removing it isn't taking the series' identity away so much as asking for it to tell its story through a new format, which they have literally done before.
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Mar 29, 2022 23:21
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Yeah, the sim aspects of Persona came from somewhere. Nothing is truly new. That's not really revelatory. Within the specific genre and space Persona inhabits, though, there's not really a lot like it. I really don't understand this position, man. The things you say are "more Persona" than the calendar system (like having a Persona instead of summoning one of many demons) all seem extremely surface-level and aesthetic. At that point, why not just make a different series?
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Mar 29, 2022 23:28
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also it was p4 especially which gave the series quasi mainstream popularity lol
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Mar 29, 2022 23:30
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I guess I just want to see what they'd do if they weren't constrained by having to tell a story that takes place across a calendar year, giving all the players a general marker of where they are in the story from the very beginning. It also dictates the pace of everything in a way that after three games I'm ready to move on from because it's become formula. Was P4 successful -because- of the calendar system, or was it the art, music, characters, battle system, story, etc.? The answer is that it wasn't just any one thing. I can't credit the series success with just that framework alone, nor do I think that its popularity back then means it's a framework that can last forever. There's plenty of ways to still do the themes and character development that has the spirit of the series in mind.
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Mar 29, 2022 23:47
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They could absolutely make another Persona 1 and 2, but neither of them are particularly unique either. I get that the calendar system might be getting old but going to a basic dungeon crawler isn't any better.
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Mar 29, 2022 23:54
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Persona 1 is actually outright bad in almost every facet, yeah let's go back to that
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Mar 29, 2022 23:59
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I'd personally rather they not make another Persona 1, because honestly that game's kinda bad imo. Haven't really had the chance to play Persona 2, but the duology is probably one of the things I'll pick up off the PSN when they eventually kill it. Assuming Atlus doesn't port them to anything else before then. E: lol  'd
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Mar 30, 2022 00:02
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P6 will have the worst of both worlds, a calendar system with P3's pacing and dearth of SLs worth doing with procedurally generated dungeon hallways with stupid encounter rates and all in first person for some reason.
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Mar 30, 2022 00:05
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For good or for ill I'd rather have them try something actually new instead of a P2 throwback. But either option is unlikely, incrementalism is going to be the name of the game for something as big as persona has become, and I doubt the high school theme is up for debate either. I guess the best you can hope for under those constraints is that they can come up with a less rigidly formulaic scenario
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Mar 30, 2022 00:07
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Other than having really cool stories the 2 duology isn't very fun at all. Battles are frequent and slow as hell and the combination attacks system requires so much grinding that you're burnt out and it's not even fun to use the attacks after you unlock them.
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Mar 30, 2022 00:08
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5 included all the best parts of the old games (negotiations, which thankfully were also made far less tedious)
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Mar 30, 2022 00:10
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But the best part of negotiations, the combo negotiations, are not in, which is disappointing. Let my party members do things Atlus! Speaking of which, can we move away from MC death equals game over? We have mainline SMT for that.
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Mar 30, 2022 00:21
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No Mods No Masters posted:For good or for ill I'd rather have them try something actually new instead of a P2 throwback. But either option is unlikely, incrementalism is going to be the name of the game for something as big as persona has become, and I doubt the high school theme is up for debate either. I guess the best you can hope for under those constraints is that they can come up with a less rigidly formulaic scenario This is closer to what I'm thinking. I'm fine with them keeping the high school thing, I just want the scenario to be less formulaic and maybe get a bit more psychological in how it understands personas, like how the point is that -everyone- has more than one in order to navigate the demands of the outside world, rather than making that solely a unique trait to blank slate protagonists. I'm not gonna argue that the old games don't need hella rebalancing because yeah they're old-rear end games from the 90s and Atlus has gotten a lot better at refining stuff down in that respect. I can defend their story, characters, and presentation because even for P1 I can say they had really good sound design and the eerie way everything was hard-shaded gave it a unique look while the story and gameplay aren't really fully-developed.
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Mar 30, 2022 00:23
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Funky Valentine posted:P6 will have the worst of both worlds, a calendar system with P3's pacing and dearth of SLs worth doing with procedurally generated dungeon hallways with stupid encounter rates and all in first person for some reason.  Hellioning posted:But the best part of negotiations, the combo negotiations, are not in, which is disappointing. Let my party members do things Atlus! Hellioning posted:Speaking of which, can we move away from MC death equals game over? We have mainline SMT for that. Neeksy posted:This is closer to what I'm thinking. I'm fine with them keeping the high school thing, I just want the scenario to be less formulaic and maybe get a bit more psychological in how it understands personas, like how the point is that -everyone- has more than one in order to navigate the demands of the outside world, rather than making that solely a unique trait to blank slate protagonists.
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Mar 30, 2022 01:20
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I thought SMT5 still had game over on protag death? Also please don't take away the life sim stuff, I really love this stuff and Persona's one the few places I can still get my fix for this junk.
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Mar 30, 2022 01:47
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I'd be happy with P6 being P5 Royal in gameplay with a new set of characters and plot. My one wish is that they add something like the support system in Fire Emblem and let party members talk to each other.
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Mar 30, 2022 01:51
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I know that at least SMT4 doesn't give you a game over if Flynn drops. Maybe Apocalypse or SMT5 walked back that change, I haven't gotten around to playing either yet.lunar detritus posted:I'd be happy with P6 being P5 Royal in gameplay with a new set of characters and plot. My one wish is that they add something like the support system in Fire Emblem and let party members talk to each other. Commander Keene fucked around with this message at 02:00 on Mar 30, 2022 |
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Mar 30, 2022 01:53
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I want them to give me a reason to hang with my friends and girlfriends after I max the link. They started going that way a bit, but it's always bothered me that you end up in a relationship with them and then never talk to them again most the time. If I chose to dump all my limited time romancing someone, that means I like the character and want more scenes with them.
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Mar 30, 2022 01:56
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My biggest complaint on p5 royal is the daily life music going from the exciting fun jazz in the earlier semesters to some serene bullshit tune, where you have to listen to the same first bars every 5 to 10 minutes because you're spending each day meeting a party member and then immediately going to bed
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Mar 30, 2022 01:57
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It’s a huge departure but I kind of want the MC to stick with their starting Persona in the next game. It feels so tonally off that Arsene is presented as the spirit of your rebellion, and the entire game has a good deal of character work done on Joker to make him his own person through context, that the chameleonic Wild Card thing feels off. Perhaps the slot other Personas in as sub-Personas could help it. So that Arsene etc is the protag main persona but they get the largest variety of sub-Persona access as their wild card feature.
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Mar 30, 2022 02:18
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Commander Keene posted:I know that at least SMT4 doesn't give you a game over if Flynn drops. Maybe Apocalypse or SMT5 walked back that change, I haven't gotten around to playing either yet. Apocalypse only has MC death equal game over on Apocalype difficulty but SMTV is always MC death game over.
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Mar 30, 2022 02:40
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Lord_Magmar posted:It’s a huge departure but I kind of want the MC to stick with their starting Persona in the next game. It feels so tonally off that Arsene is presented as the spirit of your rebellion, and the entire game has a good deal of character work done on Joker to make him his own person through context, that the chameleonic Wild Card thing feels off. I think the way to do this would just be to have Arsene or whatever equivalent level up like the party members personas, a full set of skills and always keep pace with the MC. Have the main persona fill a particular niche but not be able to handle every obstacle. Of course, having the main persona become obsolete is probably a major factor in getting players to engage with fusion, so I can see why the devs wouldn't want to do something like that. It just a shame that the cool designs have to get tossed so early in the game.
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Mar 30, 2022 03:34
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I would honestly be happy if they reduced the number of personas and instead focused on making them be interesting designs/themes, while enabling the cast to switch a few around within their areas of affinity arcana-wise or do what PQ did, which as pointed out earlier in the thread was nice solution. Plus it would be nice to differentiate them from regular demon encounters in some way, rather than it feeling like you're just summoning demons like a regular SMT protag, and instead focus on giving them some neat figures that make mythological sense for these characters or themes.
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Mar 30, 2022 03:45
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Neeksy posted:I would honestly be happy if they reduced the number of personas and instead focused on making them be interesting designs/themes, while enabling the cast to switch a few around within their areas of affinity arcana-wise or do what PQ did, which as pointed out earlier in the thread was nice solution. Plus it would be nice to differentiate them from regular demon encounters in some way, rather than it feeling like you're just summoning demons like a regular SMT protag, and instead focus on giving them some neat figures that make mythological sense for these characters or themes. The problem there, for me personally at least, is that I like the SMT demons. They're like Pokemon that I actually give a poo poo about, and if I can't summon Mothman or Ippon-Datara or Sandman in the next Persona game I'll be very disappointed.
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Mar 30, 2022 04:12
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Alternatively, keep the whole fusing aspect being the previous demons by having the starter persona being a mythological shapeshifter. One that can still comment and be part of the story no matter who you fuse it with because its just another shape its taking.
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Mar 30, 2022 04:14
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Drakenel posted:Alternatively, keep the whole fusing aspect being the previous demons by having the starter persona being a mythological shapeshifter. One that can still comment and be part of the story no matter who you fuse it with because its just another shape its taking. Yeah I was thinking a more robust version of how SMT3 kept track of whatever you fused Pixie into and it would pay off all the way at the end of the game lol
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Mar 30, 2022 04:16
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I feel like the ideal system would be PQ's sub-personas combined with the affinity system from P1/P2.
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Mar 30, 2022 06:35
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DanielCross posted:The problem there, for me personally at least, is that I like the SMT demons. They're like Pokemon that I actually give a poo poo about, and if I can't summon Mothman or Ippon-Datara or Sandman in the next Persona game I'll be very disappointed. The demons would remain as encounters and things you negotiate with, but the personas would be different.
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Mar 30, 2022 06:57
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-I'd like them to better weave the Social Links into the main plot so that your party members stop behaving so inconsistently between the two. That'd mean they'd have to gatekeep their progression behind specific dates but that sounds like a better option than what we have now. Obviously that doesn't guarantee good writing but as it's currently implemented the system's a glaring obstacle. -Beyond your starter Persona, fusions also discourage getting too attached to any particular one. I wonder if that's something they'd be willing to rework, because treating them more like your faithful Pokémon team should appeal to most players even if it makes for a very different leveling system. OTOH that's such a neglected part of the franchise that maybe it just isn't worth focusing on at this point?
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Mar 30, 2022 08:00
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It's a bit more obvious in Strikers, but Arsène actually does fill the niche of Death spells. Akechi is the only one to use them in the base game, but he also gets Bless attacks. Could have easily made him specialize in those, which fits the whole Detective Prince for Justice image he has going on. Of course, for Royal you get your own Death and Bless party members in the bonus dungeon. In Strikers, Sophia fills the Bless niche, but there's no Death aligned party member. That's the role Joker usually ends up playing, and Arsène would fit right in if your could somehow keep him viable up to the Endgame. I think that's the first time the protagonist's main element isn't that of another character, right? Orpheus had Fire like Junpei, so he was obsolete from the start, and in P4 Kanji is the Lightning elemental character, so as soon as you can switch out characters, you'll need to branch out.
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Mar 30, 2022 08:33
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Mysticblade posted:Also please don't take away the life sim stuff, I really love this stuff and Persona's one the few places I can still get my fix for this junk.  In some ways it's honestly my favorite part of the games Gaius Marius posted:I want them to give me a reason to hang with my friends and girlfriends after I max the link. They started going that way a bit, but it's always bothered me that you end up in a relationship with them and then never talk to them again most the time. If I chose to dump all my limited time romancing someone, that means I like the character and want more scenes with them. This would be the best change imo. I'd love for a reason to keep hanging out with people. Persona 5 does have additional date/friend hang out text, but give me mechanical bonuses comparable to starting new links or something. Give me more events, additional side stories once we max that link, that kind of stuff
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Mar 30, 2022 14:09
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The additional text for stuff like jazz club was nice, and yeah seeing more stuff along those lines would be cool. I liked the bits in P5s where they added (really simple) side missions to the "overworld" with the party members on the map as well.
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Mar 30, 2022 15:13
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Elvis_Maximus posted:
Considering how much some of the individual plotlines for the confidants stall as it is. Maybe do the first 5 levels as solve the persons problem, and the next 5 as helping them post problem further develop and be a good friend.
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Mar 30, 2022 15:16
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I wonder if having not a set amount of levels would be better too. Maybe one smaller social link needs 5 or 6, compared to party members who benefit more from having the full 10
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Mar 30, 2022 15:54
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