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Stux posted:called what. if that number is correct thats way over the union minimum. I was referring to residuals as part of compensation for VO gigs that I had brought up earlier. The union ultimately dropped pushing for them during the last negotiations in exchange for bonuses, but that still won't meet as much of a payout as getting residuals from sales.
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Oct 18, 2022 20:43
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how would you have called something that was already known
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Oct 18, 2022 20:45
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Dieting Hippo posted:Yeah, that's a very sad "called it" after my last post It still seems like a much more reasonable wage and above Union standards if it was really only 3 - 4 sessions of voicework. To put it in another perspective: at 8 hours per session, $4k works out to about  $500/hr -- maybe not much compared to the series' overall earnings, but still nothing to scoff at in my opinion. Something here isn't lining up, and until Helena provides more concrete evidence for her side of the story, I am much more inclined to accept Bloomberg's reporting as being closer to the truth of things.That the Union doesn't push for residuals or any other benefits to VAs is a shortcoming of the Union, not Platinum Games. I do wonder if PG would have further entertained that residuals negotiation if she hadn't shot for the moon with that 6-figure salary ask. Not that she was wrong to do so by any means, you should always try to get what you deserve! my cat is norris fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Oct 18, 2022 |
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Oct 18, 2022 20:46
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$15k is still a drop in the bucket for a multi-million dollar franchise.
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This story is getting better by the day.  RPATDO_LAMD posted:Also wtf, SAG-AFTRA gave up on all residuals for VAs? I guess that's why the pay is bad. That sounds a bit shocking but I'm not sure what 'residuals' are exactly. If we're talking standard royalties, as in a little something they get for every sale, then it's an absolutely shocking concession. However, from what I read in one of those posts, residuals would only activate if the product is more successful than "expected"? If that's the case, then there's potentially a vast majority of workers being hired for mediocre projects that will do average at best, and for whom a better one-off fee per session is going to be a better earner than residuals they would likely never collect, so the collective bargaining might have privileged the option that worked better for most.
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Oct 18, 2022 20:48
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firstly you cant simply extrapolate an hourly rate like that. secondly that isnt the figure in the article, and you arent even correct on the stated length of the sessions.
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Oct 18, 2022 20:49
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FishMcCool posted:This story is getting better by the day. no. they get no residuals. if you arent sure then go and check this isnt obscure knowledge from the tomes of the ancients. are you all being repeatedly kicked in the head by horses as you post.
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Oct 18, 2022 20:52
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Bayonetta 3 was full or mostly union https://twitter.com/Nibellion/status/1582443334890463232 and there's a few other things, including the offer being a significant pay bump per session https://twitter.com/Nibellion/status/1582451770877480977 fez_machine fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Oct 18, 2022 |
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Oct 18, 2022 20:52
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welp I meant to report this not reply. :|
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Oct 18, 2022 20:53
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my cat is norris posted:It still seems like a much more reasonable wage and above Union standards if it was really only 3 - 4 sessions of voicework. To put it in another perspective: at 8 hours per session, $4k works out to about $500/hr -- maybe not much compared to the series' overall earnings, but still nothing to scoff at in my opinion. Something here isn't lining up, and until Helena provides more concrete evidence for her side of the story, I am much more inclined to accept Bloomberg's reporting as being closer to the truth of things. I mentioned before that hourly rate is pretty deceptive for gig work. That doesn't factor in time spent searching for new gigs and auditioning. VOs aren't typically hired on as full time, if it was $500/hr for a solid 40 hour/week full time job then that'd be way more fair. Gig work suuuuucks. Also agreed, the Union itself should be holding out for members to get residuals, but it's super unfortunate that those were dropped during the last negotiations. The members should be pushing the union to go back to the table and re-negotiate for residuals regardless of the work. Edit: Changed $50 to $500 Dieting Hippo fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Oct 18, 2022 |
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Oct 18, 2022 20:53
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Stux posted:firstly you cant simply extrapolate an hourly rate like that. secondly that isnt the figure in the article, and you arent even correct on the stated length of the sessions. Was this directed at me? If so, I was only breaking down the supposed salary into terms my brain understands a little better, hence the stress on the word "perspective." I work in a world of hourly pay, so it helps with my perspective/understanding of things even if it's not 100% the most accurate way of looking at it. I know this is much, much more complicated, but until and unless I operate as a voice actor, I don't think I'll ever have a full grasp of the details. Please be a little kinder, here -- I'm doing my best to establish an understanding of something that's basically a foreign language. Dieting Hippo posted:I mentioned before that hourly rate is pretty deceptive for gig work. That doesn't factor in time spent searching for new gigs and auditioning. VOs aren't typically hired on as full time, if it was $50/hr for a solid 40 hour/week full time job then that'd be way more fair. Gig work suuuuucks. Yeah, I understand that aspect of it. As an artist who seeks out and works on commissions as a side-gig to my full-time job, it's not always easy to find the work I want, and it's a pretty dedicated effort to get my work seen and appreciated.
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Oct 18, 2022 20:57
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it wasnt even the correct numbers by any given account
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Oct 18, 2022 20:58
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Then what are the correct numbers? Can you help me understand what I hosed up instead of just telling me how wrong I am over and over? Bloomberg stated 3 - 4k per session, is that not an accurate baseline?
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Oct 18, 2022 21:00
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each paying $3,000 to $4,000 for four hours
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Oct 18, 2022 21:02
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Well first of all 4000 divided by 8 is not 50
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Oct 18, 2022 21:05
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Okay, I really don't get what you're fussing about, then. Four hours or eight hours, it's still "per session" and I was just throwing out quick math to help myself get a better grasp on things. I'm surely an idiot for stating $50 instead of $500, though. I will take that mathematical shame to my grave.RPATDO_LAMD posted:Well first of all 4000 divided by 8 is not 50 i literally just caught that lmao i'm sorry, my brain is turbo-hosed atm  i have edited my original post to reflect my embarrassment, thank you all my cat is norris fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Oct 18, 2022 |
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Oct 18, 2022 21:06
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have you considered reading and fully comprehending what you have read, before you make a post about it (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 18, 2022 21:32
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I have read the article, thank you for asking. Have you considered contributing to the discussion at hand instead of sniping at other posters? Anyway, Hellena's reaction to the article was pretty interesting to me. A shame she won't share more of her experience, but I guess she's already aired her grievances. I see the SAG/AFTRA agreement on pay expires November 7th. Has there been any news anywhere on what's being negotiated for work past that date? my cat is norris fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Oct 18, 2022 |
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Oct 18, 2022 22:12
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any useful discussion is rooted in all participants being aware of and having comprehension of the subject they are talking about. it would behoove you to ensure that you are correct in what you are saying when you are making direct references to something everyone has just read.
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Oct 18, 2022 22:27
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Good lord, I made a small math error in my post that I acknowledged. Please, please find something and someone else to be so unpleasant about. It doesn't improve this thread at all, and an admin has already been in here asking for things to stay on topic, which I am trying to steer back towards with my prior question. I'm not going to respond to stuff like this from you any longer, so please just move on, okay?
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Oct 18, 2022 22:36
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Seems like a solved problem, please move on.
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Oct 18, 2022 23:27
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Blizzard Albany (formerly Vicarious Visions) QA testers will be getting their union vote. https://mobile.twitter.com/Shannon_Liao/status/1582494881468932096
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Oct 19, 2022 02:37
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am I getting something wrong here? VGC cannot corraborate the story if they use the same sources as bloomberg: Platinum
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Oct 19, 2022 06:46
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Goa Tse-tung posted:am I getting something wrong here? VGC cannot corraborate the story if they use the same sources as bloomberg: Platinum They're claiming it's from separate, undisclosed sources within Platinum, not Platinum's official statement. Essentially Bloomberg said, "We've heard from sources and seen some documentation that she was offered a lot more," and VGC then said, "We've got different sources in there saying the same thing." So it seems to be an internally consistent story among people working there willing and able to comment on it.
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Oct 19, 2022 07:00
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FishMcCool posted:This story is getting better by the day. Posting this feels like rubbernecking, which is not what the thread is for. The rest of your post is fine, but these kind of sentiments come off badly.
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Oct 19, 2022 08:14
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disposablewords posted:They're claiming it's from separate, undisclosed sources within Platinum, not Platinum's official statement. Essentially Bloomberg said, "We've heard from sources and seen some documentation that she was offered a lot more," and VGC then said, "We've got different sources in there saying the same thing." So it seems to be an internally consistent story among people working there willing and able to comment on it. Yeah, it’s important to remember that neither Platinum nor Nintendo have made official statements on this. Schreier and VGC went to people within Platinum who were willing to speak about this under condition of anonymity, and got the same story, with Schreier claiming he’s seen evidence in writing of Platinum’s claims. That is really damning and while I’m not sure I’m ready to clamp down on the “Taylor is lying” side things look really bad for her right now. If these reports are true then the only truly bad thing Platinum did here was lie about the reason Taylor left the role, and even then I’m not sure what the proper recourse would have been - just admit there was a pay dispute?
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Oct 19, 2022 08:47
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Platinum and Nintendo probably won't say anything publicly as contract negotiations are basically under pretty strict NDAs in Japan. Contracts are seen as private between the entities involved and speaking publicly about them is a big faux pas. I wouldn't be surprised if the leaks are somewhat management endorsed just to get their side out.
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Oct 19, 2022 09:28
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Pirate Jet posted:Yeah, it’s important to remember that neither Platinum nor Nintendo have made official statements on this. Schreier and VGC went to people within Platinum who were willing to speak about this under condition of anonymity, and got the same story, with Schreier claiming he’s seen evidence in writing of Platinum’s claims. That is really damning and while I’m not sure I’m ready to clamp down on the “Taylor is lying” side things look really bad for her right now. Publicly saying an actor was stubbornly playing hardball is the kind of thing that could hurt the actor's reputation, and they couldn't exactly say nothing since Bayo's the main character, so it looks to me like they were using the evergreen "scheduling conflict" excuse to tell a white lie.
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Oct 19, 2022 09:45
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Feels like there's some genuinely weird poo poo going on at some level. vvv: Not exactly saying a lot there, but probably true. Ghost Leviathan fucked around with this message at 10:14 on Oct 19, 2022 |
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Oct 19, 2022 09:53
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Jason Schrier is the most bona fide journalist in gaming ATM, so if he’s tweeting out that they made Taylor that offer, it means he’s getting it from multiple trusted sources.
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Oct 19, 2022 10:08
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Her comment for the article being "They're lying, but also stop asking me about it" is extremely telling. If she had anything that all to back up her side of the story, I imagine she would have posted it since she's already broken an NDA and effectively ensured she'll never work in the industry again (which, y''know, she already didn't seem to care much about so I'm not sure what the point of all this even was) I imagine this it though - You're not going to get an official statement from Platinum, Nintendo, or Sega on the matter and Taylor seems to be done talking about it so uh. The End I guess?
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Oct 19, 2022 21:33
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Yeah, I began this saga entirely on Taylor’s side but with the Bloomberg reports coupled with her most recent “I started this whole media circus and now that reports/receipts are coming out that completely conflict with my claims I’d like to just disappear completely and go back to the theatre”, I mean this whole thing is really turning into a circus. I know she made a joke about not being scared of legal issues regarding her NDA, but Platinum or Nintendo really could sue her if they feel like this hub-bub impacted the games sales, couldn’t they? This is major gaming news now, literally every gaming outlet is using this as their cover story this week. Tell ya one thing, I don’t think this boycott is happening.
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Oct 20, 2022 00:11
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thanks. i really want to hear more about whos side your taking. any more info on your positions on this matter. its vitally important to know.
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Oct 20, 2022 00:12
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Yeah, I didn't get the impression she was doing this to further her peers' rights to fair wages - with the way she referred to Hale, how she hasn't said anything else since uploading those videos (besides deleting the clip where she shits on Hale, after the backlash), and her reaction to the Bloomberg report. I really hope she didn't do all that out of spite. To offer actual content, here's an interesting explainer thread from a VA who participated on the SAG strike, re: residuals on videogames https://twitter.com/AlexJWeitzman/status/1582468707065860096
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Oct 20, 2022 00:15
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Bust Rodd posted:Yeah, I began this saga entirely on Taylor’s side This is not a thread about taking sides. Speculation and such is not appropriate. Stux posted:thanks. i really want to hear more about whos side your taking. any more info on your positions on this matter. its vitally important to know. These are the exact kind of posts you have said you disliked seeing in this thread and requested that we moderate away. Stop doing so and use the report function.
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Oct 20, 2022 07:48
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VideoGames posted:These are the exact kind of posts you have said you disliked seeing in this thread and requested that we moderate away. Stop doing so and use the report function.
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Oct 20, 2022 08:53
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Endorph posted:stux is literally doing the thing the last mod communication on the topic told him to do Which mod communication?
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Oct 20, 2022 08:59
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VideoGames posted:Which mod communication? Mega64 posted:I threw a day at Sneep, but solely due to their last post about Stux in the industry thread. Otherwise, they posted something dumb about culture stuff, but I'm not going to probate people just because they post something dumb. People post dumb poo poo all the time, and usually I find it best to let others call them out and tell them why what they said is dumb. Public shaming is usually the best way to get people to change their behaviors, and if that doesn't work and they melt down over it, that's when the probes begin. In the mod feedback thread. You made a post after that saying you'd be moderating the thread, but I don't think you ever explicitly called attention to Mega64's post being completely off base in terms of what you wanted to do.
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Oct 20, 2022 09:07
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Endorph posted:In the mod feedback thread. You made a post after that saying you'd be moderating the thread, but I don't think you ever explicitly called attention to Mega64's post being completely off base in terms of what you wanted to do. Ah, I understand. There is a post in this thread by me from two days previously which is: VideoGames posted:I have caught up to the posts. I made a post in the Video Games feedback thread about the future of this thread and I am implementing stricter rules. I am going to moderate this thread harshly. This is what I have been going by for the last two days and will continue to do so. I might put this in the OP as well.
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Oct 20, 2022 09:11
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will also be hit.
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It seems like Taylor's call for a boycott had the opposite effect even before the Bloomberg article. There is no such thing as bad press and that shitstorm made an otherwise pretty niche title the most discussed game of the week. It made a lot of people take note of the game that would've otherwise ignored it. With that in mind, I wonder if Platinum/Nintendo will even bother with suing.
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Oct 20, 2022 11:14
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i don't think bayonetta is super niche or anything, it's the biggest release on the switch left this year. it's not a super mainstream household name or anything but apart from the coverage in like, bloomberg, idk that this has really given the game that much more exposure to those who would have otherwise ignored it.
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Oct 20, 2022 12:57
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