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The colony system leads to the absolute worst border-gore. Partial states all over the place. It's so ugly. And then the event spam OMG. I don't want a claim on France's poo poo you dumb colonizing fucks just stay where I sent you. Now I gotta cop negative reactions form everyone then drop the claim for -10 prestige in a futre event. I'm already -60 prestige. Knock it off. Phigs fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Oct 31, 2022 |
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Oct 31, 2022 00:06
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i love border gore, they should lock me up
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Oct 31, 2022 00:07
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Yeah, I've had no issues with radicals myself, and as Sardinia-Piedmont doing a late-game unification I've even been able to take over Italian states in heavy turmoil and steadily drive down radicalism. Providing good, high-paying jobs helps - it's not just an abstract high general standard of living, individual pops can fall through the cracks and become radicalized that way so you want to ensure as many people as possible have good jobs and productive buildings (see also: Why countries like the USA in real life can have some of the highest GDP per capita in the world and yet still have people in crushing poverty in various regions). Every state needs to have at least a few reasonably productive buildings to keep people gainfully employed. But also don't sleep on things like police institutions which can keep people from becoming radical to begin with, while passing Guaranteed Liberties can really help a lot both with keeping radicalism down and boosting loyalists. (This isn't a communist thing either BTW, I went for a liberal constitutional monarchy with relatively limited public services and I'm still pulling off minimal radicals except in conquered colonized states, but like, well, colonization) Another Person posted:- Make art something worth competing over lategame. It generally isn't very profitable, and only provides 60 prestige if you are the world leader. 60 prestige when I have like 6,000 prestige is not a lot or worth investing in employing valuable pops in inefficient and unprofitable ventures. Being the world leader of it is easy to get too because the AI will never really go for it. Make that world leader bonus double with every art tech? That would make it provide 960 prestige by endgame, which definitely would be worth competing over. Maybe make it more expensive as a result. It kinda seems like there's two issues with art: First, you need a wealth level of over 30 to even begin thinking about buying it, which is pretty high. But critically, "services" are also a substitution good for art and a lot of the time you are going to be absolutely swimming in cheap services due to massive urbanization from heavy industrialization and that'll drive the price of services into the ground and make fine art look undesirable as a consumer good, which is bad because it is ONLY a consumer good and if your pops aren't buying it, nobody will. alcaras posted:Exporting I haven't really seen the appeal of. e.g. exporting wheat just raises its price and makes my pops SoL lower, finished goods I need for my own industry. What's the upside of setting up explicit export trade routes? With Free Trade, won't other nations set up import routes which are effectively the same thing but don't take my convoys? So the thing about exporting is that it can make your pops a lot of money - absurd amounts of money, even, some of the wealthiest pops in the world because of it. The key is that when you set up a trade route, that actually creates jobs as it expands a trade center somewhere in your empire where your pops work to presumably manage the trade route itself. They earn an income based on how profitable the trade route is, which depending on how many trade routes you have, how much they're trading, and how profitable they are can reach truly absurd individual pop incomes - and as you know, wealthy pops means lots of consumer spending to further boost the economy. Not only that, but frequently the pops working the trade centers are capitalists as well, which means a lot of that money ends up becoming dividends for the investment pool to fuel further growth. All that, AND you equalize the price of goods so that your industries can continue to make even more money if your internal domestic market isn't enough to feed further growth (i.e. raising the price of finished goods isn't a bad thing because then that means it becomes profitable to build even more buildings providing that good which means more pops earning a wage working those buildings)! I'm not sure if communist forms of economic development or government have this same level of benefit re: investment pools given, y'know, communism, but trade routes should still at least make individual pops fabulously wealthy along with all the other benefits. Edit: You might be thinking, "Hang on a minute, if those trade routes create jobs, whenever I destroy a trade route or shut down an unproductive one, am I destroying jobs?" Yes, you are, hopefully replacing them with better trade routes in the future but c'est la vie. Welcome to the creative destruction of capitalism! Honestly, there's a lot of issues with the game but I am in love with the way the economy works based on pops buying things from other pops while you only indirectly benefit from increased economic activity. Tomn fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Oct 31, 2022 |
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Oct 31, 2022 00:09
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Another Person posted:I'm able to get 1/3rd or more loyalists. It just seems there is no way to actually make people stop being radicals past a certain point - and the AI seems to have that issue too. A lategame fave is to tab over to France and see their country just on fire constantly for... no real reason. To be fair France having constant riots setting everything on fire seems pretty appropriate.
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Oct 31, 2022 00:09
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France being constantly on fire has also allowed me to get away clean as Haiti for over 20 years and counting after unilaterally stopping the reverse reparations, so I am definitely not complaining
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Oct 31, 2022 00:14
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Staltran posted:To be fair France having constant riots setting everything on fire seems pretty appropriate. I was pretty satisfied with the way that France was ripping itself apart after nearly dominating the world yeah. I'm less satisfied with a remarkably stable Austria that doesn't seem to have any issues whatsoever from its multiethnic empire and has only myself providing it as a check on becoming the leading power in Europe. (Why isn't the UK the great power on that list? I don't know, the UK proper was relatively stable but they DID lose control of about half the Raj to a resurgent East India Company of all things.) Edit: By the way, has anyone seen Qing shatter in their games? I haven't even seen the Taiping show up.
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Oct 31, 2022 00:15
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Tomn posted:I was pretty satisfied with the way that France was ripping itself apart after nearly dominating the world yeah. yeah heavenly kingdom was a permanent fixture of my game after they rebelled
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Oct 31, 2022 00:18
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Tankbuster posted:lol no oil in South asia? There is a lot of missing oil regions, and far too much in Canada. MonsieurChoc posted:My Lan Fang game is going well except one of other Bornean nations is stuck in an endless civil war. I’m scared that will stop me from uniting the island. Just switch countries and capitulate one of them. Magil Zeal posted:Anyone run into anything like this? I think turmoil creates a scaling amount of devastation that doesn't decrease Phigs posted:The colony system leads to the absolute worst border-gore. Partial states all over the place. It's so ugly. If you don't want to create horrific borders and squabble with other colonizers, don't colonize. bing bong
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Oct 31, 2022 00:28
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Yeah the Heavenly Kingdom showed up in my previous game and happily settled into just living in Xingjiang with about 11 mil pops and peacefully co-existing with Great Qing.
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Oct 31, 2022 00:30
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Tomn posted:
 They even had a state called "The Heavenly Kingdom". It's just default behaviour for certain split state compositions, but it was very precious. 
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Oct 31, 2022 00:30
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:There is a lot of missing oil regions, and far too much in Canada.
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Oct 31, 2022 00:38
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heavenly kingdom was huge in my italy game. stretched from nanjing to just south of beijing and pretty deep inland
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Oct 31, 2022 00:46
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:I think turmoil creates a scaling amount of devastation that doesn't decrease It eventually did decrease, and I think what was happening was that part of the region was controlled by the India company and they were at war. Even though the war wasn't anywhere near this region, that seemed to prevent the devastation from decreasing.
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Oct 31, 2022 00:46
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OK, so I just got unlucky with the Heavenly Kingdom, but does Qing itself actually split into warlord states often, or does it just survive as a rump state until the end of the game usually?
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Oct 31, 2022 00:48
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My Brazil run ended pretty badly. Early on I joined the US customs union and then got burned in 1915 when the US declared war in the Netherlands and for some reason that causes its economy to crater instantly and also mine since we were tied to the hip.
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Oct 31, 2022 00:48
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Gaius Marius posted:If I increase their standards of living then lazy pops will get used to luxurious living. It's much better to keep them at the edge of starvation to better increase their appreciation for what little they have, besides it frees up more resources for the job creators I think this is how the mechanic actually works and why a lot of people who have their pops living in the lap of luxury keep having so much trouble with radicals - they don't care how far above their standard of living is above the average (well they do, slightly, but not as much as you'd think), they just care about how it relates to what they've gotten used to. If they have an extremely high standard of living, minor shocks to the economy can cause it to drop and end up radicalizing a lot of people who are still extremely comfortable, just not as comfortable as they used to be. Welfare is extremely strong for dealing with this because even if they lose their job they'll still be able to maintain their standard of living. But it'll cost you a lot of money.
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Oct 31, 2022 00:55
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oh another thing. i grossly underestimated the cost of war and ran to the end of my credit as japan fighting russia. but it seemed they had no intention of actually coming to face me (and neither did their allies qing or austria, i dunno if they were afraid of my medium tier navy or if the ai can't naval invade or what), so i just sat at max loans until i won the war by ticking warscore. i noticed by being at default you get ticking penalties but for some reason every week or two my default would reset? like i was getting a little pop of income from somewhere (despite my income remaining at -260k lol) that kept the default from going longer than 2 weeks. i would notice my debt go from 14 m to 13.9 m and then back to 14 m again. never had to declare bankruptcy and just ran like that for months. anyone know what was going on there? where was that occasional repayment coming from?
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Oct 31, 2022 00:56
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hot cocoa on the couch posted:oh another thing. i grossly underestimated the cost of war and ran to the end of my credit as japan fighting russia.
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Oct 31, 2022 01:00
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as far as radicals go, you want guaranteed liberties before you start deliberately pushing standard of living up rapidly, so that standard of living increases convert people into loyalists instead of just making them comfortable without changing their opinion of you. loyalists have to fall to neutral before they can radicalize, and mostly if you aren't deliberately raising standard of living or going through big economic shocks, pops without guaranteed liberties will tend to go loyalist and radical at similar rates; guaranteed liberties will skew things toward loyalist pretty dramatically.
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Oct 31, 2022 01:02
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Colonialism should probably be tweaked, colonial exploitation is way stronger than the other option, to the point I'm not sure why the other option even exists.
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Oct 31, 2022 01:09
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one of the bigger go-to causes of turmoil, and also why it effects AI nations so much, is standard of living while your average standard of living is listed as high and is all well and good, that doesn't mean everyone in the class is. Peasants do not make ends meet. They aren't paid much, they're bumpkins working on subsistent farms. If you have a sizeable population of them they cause turmoil, as their standard of living will inevitably be below the expected minimum half way through the game. make buildings until the peasant score goes away. peasants (and not unemployed pops for some reason) show up in the construction menu for a reason.
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Oct 31, 2022 01:12
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Gamerofthegame posted:make buildings until the peasant score goes away. peasants (and not unemployed pops for some reason) show up in the construction menu for a reason. im fine with it showing peasants at first but at some point it should switch or there should be an option. u can still see all unemployed in the tool tip but... just let me see it normally lol
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Oct 31, 2022 01:15
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Stux posted:im fine with it showing peasants at first but at some point it should switch or there should be an option. u can still see all unemployed in the tool tip but... just let me see it normally lol yea! there's room for another column PLEASE
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Oct 31, 2022 01:19
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:What is the employment rate?  Seems fine? My Hokkaido always looks like this though:  In this game I purposefully didn't build too much there because I thought that might've been my mistake last time, but it turned out to not make much difference. I did finally work out how to pass Free Trade though, after 3-4 attempts and some skimming of this thread.  For the longest time I completely missed this screen where you can reform your government and shift IGs around. I knew I had to raise the influence of the right IGs but I wasn't sure what to do afterwards. And I also I knew from my first attempt that pissing off the Shogunate when they're too powerful results in game over via revolution, but this time around I stuck to my plan to elevate the captains of industry and then I put them into power and suddenly I could actually propose the Free Trade law.   Sugar is back on the menu, boys! Rough guide on what I did, from the beginning of the game: - Put a consumption tax on grain to get a big cash boost (using authority for decrees doesn't seem nearly as impactful as getting more cash from taxes). - Expand construction to around 30. - Change Urban Center and Admin buildings to Secular operation to begin diminishing the Clergy. - Build a Tooling Workshop and then a bunch of iron mines, then keep building more mines (coal/lead/sulfur) as required, and also expand the logging camps. Completely avoid expanding any farms because that gives the Shogunate (Aristocracy) more influence. Create demand for coal initially by switching to street lights in the Urban Centers. - Beeline Railroads tech then build them in every state and switch all production modes to use them (switching the building itself to passenger mode initially is a good way to create demand for transport). - Build a few Universities when the tech appears, and expand them (and expand the Paper Mills to support them). - Along the way, expand Furniture/Clothes with more of a focus on non-luxury, just to generate some cash alongside more support for the Industrialists. - Take all random event choices that make the Shogunate/Clergy/any other group besides Industrialists or Intelligentsia less popular. - Once the Industrialists have reached 20% reform the government and put them into power. Maybe you can do it earlier but I didn't realize this was a necessary step, as mentioned above. - Pass your preferred laws. And finally, unrelated:  
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Oct 31, 2022 01:20
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you have no unemployed or peasants
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Oct 31, 2022 01:22
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uPen posted:Colonialism should probably be tweaked, colonial exploitation is way stronger than the other option, to the point I'm not sure why the other option even exists. There are low population colonies that need workers? Kalko posted:
Hokkaido has trouble hiring because everybody in the state is already employed
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Oct 31, 2022 01:26
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How do you fix a problem like that?
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Oct 31, 2022 01:27
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How do I win the opium wars as china? I removed the UK off my shores, my radicals are going down and my income is going up, but my war support means im going to blink first before the UK and lose it.
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Oct 31, 2022 01:29
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Kalko posted:How do you fix a problem like that? allowing internal migration (or no pop controls) i think. i enabled it though and never checked back on it so i don't know how my hokkaido is doing
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Oct 31, 2022 01:29
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gradually people will migrate, assuming you allow it people want to go to places with a high standard of living which is almost guaranteed to be the case in comparison to china
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Oct 31, 2022 01:33
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Kalko posted:How do you fix a problem like that? allow internal migration so poor pops elsewhere can go, encourage pop growth, usual ways you'd build up the working population.
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Oct 31, 2022 01:33
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hot cocoa on the couch posted:allowing internal migration (or no pop controls) i think. i enabled it though and never checked back on it so i don't know how my hokkaido is doing Kalko posted:How do you fix a problem like that? It's unlikely that Hokkaido has enough unmodified migration attraction to get enough migrants. You can see it by looking at the population tab after selecting the state. Migration attraction has a base value determined by SoL. It is then modified in various ways. Resource discovery events give the biggest bonuses, but are temporary. Your market capital gives a permanent bonus, as does the greener grass edict. Unemployment tanks it. To get a meaningful amount of migrants, you want a state to have higher attraction than your other states. The migrants will scatter among several the most attractive states, but it's best to be top. More migrants will come from states with low SoL btw, so if you make your whole country too nice very few will migrate. First thing is to move away from "closed borders" law, which blocks all migration entirely Slim Jim Pickens fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Oct 31, 2022 |
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Oct 31, 2022 01:36
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Grimly realistic that pops don’t thank you for making jobs for them so they’re no longer unemployed, but get turbo pissed off if you close a job down and they’re now out of a job. Yeah buddy that mine you’re now working in just popped into existence out of nowhere, screw big gubbinment, they never did a thing for you.
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Oct 31, 2022 01:37
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How do naval blockades play into war support? Is it that if you’re raiding their convoys, it lowers their SOL and pushes up radicalism or is there more to it than that? This might explain the opium war thing for the poster up above, if the UK is sinking all their convoys?
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Oct 31, 2022 01:40
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I had the same problem with Hokkaido through when I stopped my first game (around 1910), even after I opened up migration. It had higher migration attraction than anywhere else in the country because wages were sky high from the massive labor shortage but most of my buildings were still empty by the end. Maybe it's something wonky with split states? Russia colonized the rest of the island before me and I never wound up getting it back.
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Oct 31, 2022 01:43
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Ms Adequate posted:Yeah the Heavenly Kingdom showed up in my previous game and happily settled into just living in Xingjiang with about 11 mil pops and peacefully co-existing with Great Qing. "I AM JESUS REINCARNATED which means i am happy to settle down with my little communist utopia, render unto Cixi what is Cixi's"
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Oct 31, 2022 01:43
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One thing I discovered about serfdom is it utterly tanks the qualifications growth of peasants. I was badly bottlenecked on clerks in my Zulu game until I managed to abolish it.
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Oct 31, 2022 01:45
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Oil scarcity is my #1 cause for engaging in unjust lategame wars of imperial aggression. Sorry Venezuela/Egypt/Gulf Emirates, but you're too underdeveloped to be allowed to sit on that oil deposit.
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Oct 31, 2022 01:56
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I'm starting to hate this war system. I'm trying to fight Oman as Persian and I have a 4:1 numerical superiority in numbers and my general will only fight with equal or less numbers of battalions and has lost dozens of battles now. Is there any way to make this not loving stupid?
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Oct 31, 2022 02:03
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KOGAHAZAN!! posted:Potential oil producing regions: Just gonna quote this to find later
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Oct 31, 2022 02:05
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