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knox_harrington posted:I really didn't like the Santa Fe I rented a while back, like you say pretty floppy to drive around. essex unfortunately, but I'm looking at having my own independent republic right now I'm looking at approved used because vw were offering 3 years warranty, mot and servicing and I could probably wrangle the same out of the skoda dealership and the concept of things being someone elses problem for awhile is really appealing given the tumultuous affair I have had with the audi Four wheel drive only came on the 2 litre manual allspice (not correcting) according to the vw guy I spoke to today, so it's a bit rarer to find than 4x4 kodiaqs and looking at autotrader it's 1 out of 25 manual allspaces have 4x4 versus 10 out of 31 manual kodiaqs
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Jan 30, 2023 17:29
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Ah I forgot about the 4x4 requirement. Looks like there are a few of the Skodas around anyway.
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Jan 30, 2023 18:31
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Since you all educated me on why I should avoid leases, I had some questions about actually going through with a new car purchase in 2023. My wife really has her eyes on the Toyota Corolla Hybrid XLE. The Toyota website lists the model as "Starting MSRP: $26,600." When I search the dealership inventory via their website, there are a handful available at nearby dealers in the color she wants, but it lists "TOTAL MSRP* $29,128" (or around that price). Is this just a dealer markup? I haven't bought a car since 2009 and I know nothing about buying cars. Last time I bought a car, my bank (USAA) had a car buying service (which they no longer have). I got preapproved for the loan, selected the car through their service, went to the dealership, sat around for a few hours while they managed paperwork, signed on the dotted line, and drove away with my car. I assume it will not be so easy for me this time. How much should I plan on getting preapproved for? I live in Los Angeles. I'm sure there's taxes and other fees and what not. I'm trying to make this car buying experience as painless as possible. I'd like to find a dealership that has the model we want in the color we want, go in, sign some paperwork, and leave with the car, but I guess that's too much to dream for?
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Jan 30, 2023 22:10
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I just bought a 2023 Corolla LE. Dealers can get away with charging over MSRP because inventory is still low. New cars are better than they were before, but still marked up a bit. You're paying for the premium of actually getting to buy a car today. You could probably order one online at MSRP, but it'd take some months to get delivered. Hybrids are especially in demand recently. Depending on your location, try looking at dealers in larger metropolitan areas. I was able to save ~$1200 by driving to a much larger city about 2 hours away. You could try to use the listed MSRP price as leverage to negotiate the price down a bit. If you're financing through someone other than the dealer, don't let them know until as late in the negotiation as possible. They might lower the total final cost a bit if they think you're financing thru them. Focus on lowering the total end cost before talking financing. If you get the extended warranty or maintenance package, you could maybe use that to negotiate a slightly better deal on the whole package as well. If you don't want extra stuff, just be firm that you're not interested. Maybe you could at least get them to waive the document fees. Don't forget to factor state and maybe city sales tax into the equation. Budget for about 10-15% tax. The total price you saw might also include extra stuff like floor mats or whatever, you can say no to those.
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Jan 30, 2023 22:26
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You need to see the whole build sheet to understand the pricing and if it’s true MSRP or not. Toyota is still in the game of build options on top of trim level, so just because an XLE trim has one MSRP you may find that dealers never order a no extra options config so that car practically does not exist in the real world because every dealer always orders it with +$3k of “popular” options. It’s super loving annoying that for the most part dealers control inventory ordering based on what they think will sell quickly. Every OEM entices you to “build your new car” on their website but in a lot of cases you cannot ever actually buy the car you configured for the listed price. Plus then dealer-installed accessories is another level of horseshit on top of that.
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Jan 30, 2023 22:37
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Mordiceius posted:Since you all educated me on why I should avoid leases, I had some questions about actually going through with a new car purchase in 2023. The starting price of the car is without any options and usually doesn't include the delivery/transportation fee. MSRP on a 2023 Corolla Hybrid XLE with premium audio and delivery is 28,470. The starting at 26,600 is kinda bullshit since it's really 26,6 plus 1200 in delivery. Most dealers are going to have a doc fee (varies by region, TX is 150 or 175), then charge the appropriate taxes on the vehicle. There might be some other fees thrown in, but watch out for BS fees. I would shoot for preapproval of 10% over MSRP of the car and you should be good. The preapproval isn't that big of a deal because your bank is going to go off the overall loan to value based on their risk profile your credit scores and income. Going in with a lender ready though does help when negotiating the finance part of the deal. If you go in with 4.8 from USAA they're not going to throw 6.9% from Toyota at you. They make money off placing the loan and possibly off the interest so they' put in work to try to beat that rate.
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Jan 30, 2023 22:46
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I went to a bunch of dealers this weekend to test drive various cars, and Toyotas were the most annoying. I test drove a RAV-4 and liked it, but there was no way you could get one. They did have a non-hybrid version on the lot and offered it to me, but it was more expensive than the hybrid because of all the extras they threw into the car. This particular dealership didn't mark up beyond MSRP, but seeing all those stupid add-ons drove me nuts. It wasn't even scammy stuff like paint protection or w/e, just all these random Toyota accessories I'd never use. A couple of other places I saw had the trim we were looking for, but god drat, the sticker would show "36k" and when they gave me the keys, "oh btw there's a 10k markup on this, but if you're interested we might be able to bring it down a bit" I drove that mf'er hard in the test drive. Then I called up the Mazda dealership about a CX-5 and they don't have what I'm looking for. There are two in transit, but already reserved. I extended my rental car for another month and just gonna chill a bit. I'm so sick and tired of these stupid games and inventory issues. I don't know if the market will ever blow up, but I'm getting ready in case it does.
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Jan 30, 2023 23:11
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Thanks. I appreciate all this. This whole drat process is so annoying. I just want to buy the drat car. D: On the Toyota website, I noticed that I can see what all is included to bump the price up on these individual models.  Honestly, I would probably be okay with all of that. I want to just go in and say "hey. That car. I want it. give it to me. I see the price online. Give it to me at that. Here's my loan information." Mordiceius fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Jan 30, 2023 |
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Jan 30, 2023 23:13
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One thing to note, is many dealers are doing markups and not putting it on the sticker. In the sticker you posted, sometimes they will have a line item that says "Market Adjustment" or "Dealer Adjustment" and its an extra $3000 or something stupid. If you ask what that line is, it's literal profit you are paying them for the opportunity to take that car home today. You might be able to negotiate it, but there are other fools that would pay it. I considered a 2-3k markup, but when I found out it was actually 6-10k around these parts, I balked. I don't know why people would pay that much more to get a hybrid with a CVT and "save money" on gas. 10k could pay for all my gas for 5 years.
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Jan 30, 2023 23:23
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Maybe see if you can get a few of those extras removed, at least the floor mat. I told them I didn't want to pay for floor mats and they told me that the floor mats came standard they wouldn't charge me. So you could save about $300 like that at least.
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Jan 30, 2023 23:25
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Mordiceius posted:Since you all educated me on why I should avoid leases, I had some questions about actually going through with a new car purchase in 2023.
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Jan 30, 2023 23:26
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Mordiceius posted:I want to just go in and say "hey. That car. I want it. give it to me. I see the price online. Give it to me at that. Here's my loan information." In the before times this was possible. I've bought most of my cars in 2 hours or less. I get my loan pre approved with my credit union, go down to the dealer and say I'll buy this car right now for X price, and they say yes or no. They say No, I leave. They say yes, I fill out paperwork, have them try to beat my CU rate, and I'm out of there. That car is still being built, and that dealer doesn't look to have any Corolla Hybrids on the lot.
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Jan 30, 2023 23:31
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skipdogg posted:That car is still being built, and that dealer doesn't look to have any Corolla Hybrids on the lot. loving hell. Another thing I didn't noticed. I, foolishly it seems, assumed that if they listed the cars on that search, then they were available cars. Bank posted:One thing to note, is many dealers are doing markups and not putting it on the sticker. In the sticker you posted, sometimes they will have a line item that says "Market Adjustment" or "Dealer Adjustment" and its an extra $3000 or something stupid. If you ask what that line is, it's literal profit you are paying them for the opportunity to take that car home today. You might be able to negotiate it, but there are other fools that would pay it. I considered a 2-3k markup, but when I found out it was actually 6-10k around these parts, I balked. I don't know why people would pay that much more to get a hybrid with a CVT and "save money" on gas. 10k could pay for all my gas for 5 years. I found one that is actually in stock (I think?) at a dealer a few hours away.  I'm kinda confused at what I'm looking at here though. WTF is "Net Capitalized Cost"?
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Jan 30, 2023 23:46
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Net Cap Cost is used when leasing a car. It's the price of the car after any cap cost deductions (monies down or rebates, trade in equity, etc). Basically how much you're financing (but not really because lease financing is a little different than a straight up purchase) The fine print in that screenshot is assuming a 4500 dollar or so downpayment.
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Jan 30, 2023 23:56
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skipdogg posted:Net Cap Cost is used when leasing a car. It's the price of the car after any cap cost deductions (monies down or rebates, trade in equity, etc). Basically how much you're financing (but not really because lease financing is a little different than a straight up purchase) So basically, based on that above screenshot, if I just took things as is, the combined cost of everything would be roughly $34k?
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Jan 31, 2023 00:06
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30,923 plus an estimated 3400 in fees, so yeah about 34,323. A 34K Corolla. What a world we live in.
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Jan 31, 2023 00:15
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skipdogg posted:A 34K Corolla. What a world we live in. granted it is a top-trim hybrid with all the bells and whistles of assisted driving and modern infotainment and electronic doodads that don't even come standard on entry level luxury euro cars but still a corolla
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Jan 31, 2023 00:23
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Guinness posted:granted it is a top-trim hybrid with all the bells and whistles of assisted driving and modern infotainment and electronic doodads that don't even come standard on entry level luxury euro cars Yeah. That's the thing I wonder though - is it worth going for the XLE over the LE? The base model difference is like $22.8 vs $26.6, so about a 4k difference. Assuming similar fees and poo poo across the board, it'd be around $30k for the base model or $34k for the hybrid. It feels like, if I'm going to be spending $30k regardless, I might as well go for one a little nicer. Luckily, I just checked with my bank and with the loan preapproval, I'm good either way. 
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Jan 31, 2023 00:52
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It's really up to you whether the premium trim level is worth it or not. Some people like all the bells and whistles, some people like poverty spec trim. The Corolla is a good car, and if piling options on to it checks even more boxes for you then go for it. The one good thing about how so many "luxury" features are just some electronics and software is that it's cheap for mainstream manufacturers to make standard in everything, or at least at a reasonable price compared to true luxury brands. What's bonkers is that a Corolla Hybrid XLE might sound spendy at $34k but it has more features than a basic $50k 330i or A4. They don't even come standard with really common stuff and will charge thousands more for the stuff that Toyota (and others) puts as standard in every car. I sprung for a maxed out CX-5 Signature a couple years ago and have no regrets. Worth it to me and that's all that matters. I looked at it as a cheaper alternative to a luxury brand that'd cost $10k+ more for something comparable and through that lens it was a screaming deal. Guinness fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Jan 31, 2023 |
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Jan 31, 2023 01:21
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If I was commuting in Los Angeles I would want the nicer interior, better radio, and more adjustable seats. The creature comforts are nice when you’re spending a couple hours a day in the car.
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Jan 31, 2023 01:42
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Guinness posted:It's really up to you whether the premium trim level is worth it or not. Some people like all the bells and whistles, some people like poverty spec trim. The Corolla is a good car, and if piling options on to it checks even more boxes for you then go for it. I've been car shopping recently. All Toyotas that have automatic transmissions have radar cruise control standard. The cheapest Corolla you can get still has it standard. The *only* BMW as far as I can tell that has standard adpative cruise control is the Alpina XB7, literally the largest and most expensive truck they've ever made. It's still an option on the M8 Competition convertible. The BMW dealers I've talked to (5 different dealers across 4 states) also tell me that for the most part it's not even an option you can even order - they don't have any on the lot and the BMW website configurator is just lying, because I guess they only have enough parts for the Alpina XB7s. A loaded Chrysler Pacifica hybrid is essentially the same price as a base X5. I've been cross shopping them, except the Pacifica has adaptive cruise standard and to get adaptive cruise on the X5 you need to get 4 other M-Sport leather covered air vent packages that add $11k+ to the price, and also you can't get it anyway because there are no parts.
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Jan 31, 2023 02:10
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skipdogg posted:If I was commuting in Los Angeles I would want the nicer interior, better radio, and more adjustable seats. The creature comforts are nice when you’re spending a couple hours a day in the car.  You made a strong case. It's for my wife and being that she has worked for so long to get to this point in her career, I want to make sure she has the most comfort. And a $50 difference in monthly loan payment is worth it imo.
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Jan 31, 2023 02:17
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Toyota has some really bitchin adaptive cruise control, it will do stop-and-go interstate bullshit no problem. All the way down to 0mph and back up to 70mph and back to 0 again. I haven't checked the very latest BMW but the ones I have driven won't let you use cruise control below 20mph unless you pay extra for the stop-and-go feature. We rented a toyota with adaptive cruise control, and had to drive from SFO, across one of the bridges out into the boonies during rush hour and I can say it makes a lot of difference. It's not quite the level of "zone out on the subway, wait for your stop to exit" but it's definitely heading in that direction. Lack of ACC on new BMW is probably the thing that will push us to another brand when it comes time to replace/augment our current one. Toyota's ACC is really loving good, way better than the BMW with ACC I've test driven
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Jan 31, 2023 03:14
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Mordiceius posted:Thanks. I appreciate all this. This whole drat process is so annoying. I just want to buy the drat car. D: Check out the broker forum on leasehackr. You don’t have to lease to use them but there are some decent SoCal Toyota brokers (or even dealers) that should be able to help you.
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Jan 31, 2023 03:39
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Hadlock posted:Toyota has some really bitchin adaptive cruise control, it will do stop-and-go interstate bullshit no problem. All the way down to 0mph and back up to 70mph and back to 0 again. I haven't checked the very latest BMW but the ones I have driven won't let you use cruise control below 20mph unless you pay extra for the stop-and-go feature. We rented a toyota with adaptive cruise control, and had to drive from SFO, across one of the bridges out into the boonies during rush hour and I can say it makes a lot of difference. It's not quite the level of "zone out on the subway, wait for your stop to exit" but it's definitely heading in that direction. My favorite rental car I've ever had was a Mazda6 a few years ago. First car I ever drove with ACC and it was a huge lifesaver on the 101. I still think about all the controls in that car regularly.
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Jan 31, 2023 04:09
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Good adaptive cruise is one of the biggest must have features on new cars IMO. It’s absolutely laughable that so many luxury cars don’t have it, or have poo poo versions that they charge $texas for. I can personally attest that Toyota, Mazda, and Ford all have excellent ACC features standard or in relatively affordable packages, and I assume many other mainstream brands do, too. Like yeah sure if you’re buying a manual 911 or M3 then this isn’t about you, but if we are talking appliance cars it’s a must in my mind. Guinness fucked around with this message at 04:18 on Jan 31, 2023 |
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Jan 31, 2023 04:15
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Guinness posted:Good adaptive cruise is one of the biggest must have features on new cars IMO. It’s absolutely laughable that so many luxury cars don’t have it, or have poo poo versions that they charge $texas for. This man for president. Self driving is here. If a nation state or municipality mandates this be used on its roads, accident liability would be nonexistent comparatively. My parents are olds and don’t use cruise or ACC at all on their couple year old Honda CR-V. It’s maddening on road trips. I’ve pointed it out and they don’t really have the stereotypical issue of down and up speeds, but they refuse so w/e. IME it’s not only a gigantic convenience feature it’s also safety as well, not having to have as laser focus on speed of vehicle in front means substantial increase in situational awareness. I would like a new to me fun car but live in a city so will be kinda sad if it doesn’t have ACC. Inner Light fucked around with this message at 06:03 on Jan 31, 2023 |
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Jan 31, 2023 05:59
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Every time you talk to a BMW dealer they'll say "BMWs are for drivers" in response to not having ACC standard and it's just so precious. 
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Jan 31, 2023 07:20
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On the other hand, if you buy the BMW you don't have to look at the Chrysler Pacifica every time you go in the garage.
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Jan 31, 2023 08:12
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I don't care for ACC
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Jan 31, 2023 13:53
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Internet Explorer posted:Every time you talk to a BMW dealer they'll say "BMWs are for drivers" in response to not having ACC standard and it's just so precious. It interferes with tailgating and weaving, smart move.
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Jan 31, 2023 14:37
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I don't care for ACC You're a monster.
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Jan 31, 2023 16:02
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He's a driver. 
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Jan 31, 2023 16:09
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I don't care for ACC I don't either. Maybe I'd like it if I dealt with more traffic?
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Jan 31, 2023 16:54
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I don't think I'd ever buy another car without it, especially one that can easily handle stop and go traffic. Both of my vehicles are on the "enthusiast" side, one is a manual, and I don't really deal with traffic often. But I have sat in way too much traffic in my life and you never know. Easily one of the best new features on cars.
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Jan 31, 2023 17:01
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I don't trust ACC enough to call it a weight off my mind for traffic rear end traffic. Until I can mind meld and tell it that Audi is going to shoot the gap and cut me off in the process it's marginally useful as a base throttle input same as normal cruise. ACC excels for 1+ hour trips on well travelled 2 lane interstates where any brainpower previously spent deciding if I pass the semi now or after the next bunch of passing cars can be redirected to identifying and characterizing enemy drivers.
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Jan 31, 2023 17:02
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zedprime posted:ACC excels for 1+ hour trips on well travelled 2 lane interstates where any brainpower previously spent deciding if I pass the semi now or after the next bunch of passing cars can be redirected to identifying and characterizing enemy drivers. It's absolutely this and I absolutely love having it. I wouldn't consider it a deal breaker for me because fortunately I don't do that much highway driving anymore.
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Jan 31, 2023 17:06
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The killer feature of ACC for me is in stop and go traffic if there's a jam on the autoroute. So nice just having it deal with it.
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Jan 31, 2023 17:22
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Most of my use case is driving in greater Boston and every acc system I’ve used gets very confused It’s an improvement for long highway trips where I would use regular cruise control but I don’t do those very often.
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Jan 31, 2023 17:59
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Cruise control has never been something I used just because it makes me nervous. I don't like not having control over the vehicle. I have ADHD. If I offload some of the responsibility of driving to the car, then I'm going to get distracted and get in an accident.
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Jan 31, 2023 18:48
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