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wologar posted:Then don't, lol. that's fair, it's basically a convenience thing for changing thread titles and thread tags but if we don't think we need one as a community, that's fine with me
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Mar 22, 2023 21:43
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Sub Rosa posted:It is incomplete to portray Mafia as being just a game of social deduction. It's also a game of social manipulation. There is an overlap between tactics of manipulation and tactics of abuse. There is some truth to this. It's not enough to figure out who's the scum, you also need to sway and convince people to listen to you and vote for who you think is scum. Or, if you are scum, you need to convince people that someone telling the truth is wrong. This easily leads to heated feelings, when people get frustrated at not being believed or understood, or listened to. When they can't be sure if someone's misinterpretation is willful, or if they're saying what they actually believe. Everyone's got different comfort levels for this, but it's pretty much baked into the concept of Mafia no matter what you do. This is just speaking for myself but I imagine some other people feel similarly - I can enjoy going through that kind of frustration in Mafia and keep coming back for more, cause I have full power to fight back for myself and argue like hell. Compared to real life conflicts that could have big social or career consequences, this is like a safe playground to deal with that kind of conflict over something that's minimal stakes. People can get invested in the moment trying to win the game for their team, but the nature of the game also makes it short and over with quickly. Another nice thing about the Mafia community is that practically anyone can run their own game pretty easily if they got the time for it and a fun idea. If you got a problem with some players or mods who always clash with you, there's always other games run in different styles by different people. That makes it a lot easier to keep at it and not be excluded if you aren't in one particular in-group. If anything, a lot of the reason I was so upset at the drama I mentioned in SAD is cause I had such high expectations for something that branched off from the Mafia community. In play-by-post Mafia, we all have to use our words. We'll have conflicts flare up, people will say their piece, then quickly sort them out and move on to the next game. If people got problems with how a game was set up, that's also easily talked about. Practically every game will have people openly talking shop afterwards, about what roles they liked or disliked or what things they thought didn't quite work, and it's not taken as some huge slight on the mod's honor. I was used to that, and it drove me mad wondering why it was all so much harder in RPG land.
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Mar 22, 2023 22:04
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Sandwolf doesn't like how I play Mafia so we should excommunicate him rather than give him more power
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Mar 22, 2023 22:06
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He can only see me get shot so many times dude
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Mar 22, 2023 22:08
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I think I would be an excellent Something Awful Mafia Idiot King. 1) I have no power over any other SA Mafia community 2) I am not emotionally attached to the community anymore and not familiar with most of the new generation of players (i.e. I would be impartial if there were any disagreements) 3) I have been playing mafia on here on-again-off-again since 2007, so I have a good sense for when people's emotions get "too heated" and when it's just typical mafia banter. 4) I would not let the power go to my head, because I have a healthy life outside of the internet, with many meaningful friends and loved ones. 5) I am a reasonable and level-headed person generally who has never been involved directly or indirectly with the abuse of other members of our community. An IK such as myself would not be a substitute for the internal community policing we have here, it would just be a stopgap in case things get too extreme. My first act as moderator would be to move this thread into TG instead of TGR, which is where the rest of the tabletop discussion threads are located. If not selected, I will not be hurt, it just seems like a sensible thing to do.
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Mar 22, 2023 22:11
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I do think there is something to be said for having the IK be a part of the community but not a regular in games. Not because I think they would abuse their power, but because it can be intimidating to get aggressive with an "official"
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Mar 22, 2023 22:13
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Jose Valasquez posted:I do think there is something to be said for having the IK be a part of the community but not a regular in games. Not because I think they would abuse their power, but because it can be intimidating to get aggressive with an "official" Ok fine I'll do it
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Mar 22, 2023 22:15
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If they have a star next to their name I’m going to get more aggressive
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Mar 22, 2023 22:19
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We should make the next new person to play a game IK.
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Mar 22, 2023 22:26
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Jose Valasquez posted:Sandwolf doesn't like how I play Mafia so we should excommunicate him rather than give him more power people can change, Jose. I don't do the thing you don't like anymore because folks like you, Keane, and Cena showed me why it was harmful and rude
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Mar 22, 2023 22:28
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EccoRaven posted:I think I would be an excellent Something Awful Mafia Idiot King. https://www.samafia.net/wiki/Main_Page About The SA Mafia Wiki is maintained by Ecco and Got it in 1. But also seems like a better separation of interests vs. Sand.
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Mar 22, 2023 22:32
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Sandwolf posted:people can change, Jose. I don't do the thing you don't like anymore because folks like you, Keane, and Cena showed me why it was harmful and rude Don't believe you ##shoot Sandwolf
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Mar 22, 2023 22:33
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I am not sure we need an IK, like, the game literally does not generate reports, lol. And I agree with people pointing out that game mechanics mean IKing is hard to keep separate from actual gameplay, and making the IK not able to play anymore is lovely. I also think that making someone who no longer plays or mods (since modding needs to be scrutinized too!) is, well, appointing someone with little to no ties to the community and, at that point... why not the regular mods?
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Mar 22, 2023 22:33
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CubicalSucrose posted:https://www.samafia.net/wiki/Main_Page I miss TLB 
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Mar 22, 2023 22:34
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CubicalSucrose posted:https://www.samafia.net/wiki/Main_Page "Maintained" is carrying a lot of weight there, but I understand the point, and would happily divest myself of whatever control I have over the wiki.
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Mar 22, 2023 22:34
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Jose Valasquez posted:I miss TLB buddy we all do ):
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Mar 22, 2023 22:34
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Shellception posted:I am not sure we need an IK, like, the game literally does not generate reports, lol. I'm glad this is the case now because boy oh boy it didn't used to be lol
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Mar 22, 2023 22:35
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I've been on this forum for over 20 years and I still have no clue what the hell an Idiot King is or does so I could care less about who gets what. All I want is to make sure that everyone who ever plays in a game understands that the SA Mafia community takes a lot of pride in being a safe, respectful, inclusive and inviting space, and that if anyone ever encounters anything or anyone who makes them feel uncomfortable, threatened, abused, angry, or even unsure of how they feel, there are many people here, both within and outside of the SA Mafia community, who are happily willing to listen, provide support, and enact change to make the community better for everyone. The SA Mafia Community, including me, has been far from perfect in the past. I know a few players in the old days that stopped playing because of the hostility they faced in and out of games, and in my direct knowledge that hostility was especially harsh towards people who did not identify as cis-male posters (as was most of these forums, and the internet, and life). The SA Mafia Community (and hopefully me) are in a much better place now than at any time I have been associated with the community. I'd like to see that trend continue, and to enact anything we can do to support it.
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Mar 22, 2023 22:37
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An idiot kingu hands out sixers
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Mar 22, 2023 22:40
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We could always go back to the tried and true infinitum huh...
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Mar 22, 2023 22:41
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Shellception posted:I am not sure we need an IK, like, the game literally does not generate reports, lol. And I agree with people pointing out that game mechanics mean IKing is hard to keep separate from actual gameplay, and making the IK not able to play anymore is lovely. I also am not sure we strictly need an IK, but if it has to be someone, I think I would be good. To address the points: - I don't mind not being able to play games anymore since I don't play games anymore - I do mod games still, I modded one in January. I also used to play very prolifically, though again not anymore. - I have ties to the community still. I'm well known and the legends of my exploits are still told in discord taverns across the land.
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Mar 22, 2023 22:43
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I'm fine with changing thread titles and moving threads etc. whenever y'all need that done. You can alert me or another mod to the need by using the report function or via PMs. IKs get vetted by the mod team, it is a low level of authority but enough that a discussion behind closed doors has to happen. IKs can either be across a whole subforum like TGR (Podima was this for years) or assigned by using the admin powers to just a single thread (Framboise is now an IK for just the main magic thread in TG). So in this case probably there could not be a "Mafia IK" unless they voluntarily didn't do things to non-Mafia threads in TGR. Either way, if an IK is in order, I'd want to bring in Antivehicular to the discussion and we would do normal sensible things like looking at rap sheets and post history and stuff before requesting granting of IK powers. And yes an IK is a mini-mod but they can't see reports or the mod forum, they can give six hour probations without prior approval but longer probations go in the queue and are approved by admins so IKs typically don't queue longer probes. They also have the buttons that let them move threads, change thread titles and icons, and maybe one or two other things. It is supposed to be a low key low pressure thing that doesn't require a ton of work or vetting and is low drama if someone needs to be IKed because they didn't work out, although obviously that sometimes uhhhh, doesn't work out that way ugh.
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Mar 22, 2023 22:46
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I think our need for one would just be from a utilitarian standpoint for now, just opening/closing threads when the OP isn't present and just acting as kind of a mafia Referee
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Mar 22, 2023 22:49
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STONE COLD 64 posted:I think our need for one would just be from a utilitarian standpoint for now, just opening/closing threads when the OP isn't present and just acting as kind of a mafia Referee why don't you do it then buster! you've already played in games as a mod and no one cared, we know there isn't much responsibility there
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Mar 22, 2023 22:50
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Obligatory mafia post
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Mar 22, 2023 23:01
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STONE COLD 64 posted:I think our need for one would just be from a utilitarian standpoint for now, just opening/closing threads when the OP isn't present and just acting as kind of a mafia Referee What’s Referee got to do with this
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Mar 22, 2023 23:06
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Sandwolf would be fine, I'd say two things about having an IK 1) i think that while it should be someone involved in the community, it probably shouldn't be someone who actively plays 2) we should really have 2 people sharing it to avoid any corruption issues
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Mar 22, 2023 23:08
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We might want a general IK for all of TGR again, it could be a person clued in to what needs doing for Mafia games but also like, the occasional thing for CYOAs and other game room stuff.
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Mar 22, 2023 23:09
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I would be completely inadequate as an IK for TGR, since I only know mafia. If selected as IK I would be the "voluntarily only handling mafia matters" IK that Leperfish mentioned.
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Mar 22, 2023 23:29
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##vote EccoRaven
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Mar 22, 2023 23:31
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Prags is suggesting we could have multiple IKs for TGR if that made sense, there's not like a limitation or anything, so "TGR forums IK specifically for Mafia" is a title that could exist.
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Mar 22, 2023 23:36
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Opopanax posted:Sandwolf would be fine, I'd say two things about having an IK Sandwolf and Ecco could be co-mafia IKs. That would be cool and good imo
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Mar 22, 2023 23:54
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Leperflesh posted:Prags is suggesting we could have multiple IKs for TGR if that made sense, there's not like a limitation or anything, so "TGR forums IK specifically for Mafia" is a title that could exist. I think thats more ideal
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Mar 23, 2023 00:08
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To be completely frank (and nothing against Ecco who I've never had a cross interaction with) but anyone WANTING an IK position or any kind of "authority" position gets my hackles up. I don't think we need an IK; I feel comfortable reaching out to one of the mods or a senior mafia member (as in really old/nearing retirement age...😋) who is still a part of the community if I have any concerns. I don't see our community as such a monolith that we have specific moderation needs. Of course that could change in the future with this increased attention but I think it's bad to add moderation as a knee jerk reaction...how often did we have to ask Pod to do anything with threads or probe people?
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Mar 23, 2023 00:35
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t a s t e posted:What’s Referee got to do with this Yeah, what’s Referee got to do with this? 
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Mar 23, 2023 00:42
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Opopanax posted:Sandwolf would be fine, I'd say two things about having an IK I agree with this if people decide IKs are needed (more than one and someone who is familiar with the current mafia community)
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Mar 23, 2023 00:43
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I don't think we should give more power to Ecco they'll probably ban votefinder or just shut us all down for backtalk
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Mar 23, 2023 00:48
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Opopanax posted:I don't think we should give more power to Ecco they'll probably ban votefinder or just shut us all down for backtalk hard to ban something that's dead..................................
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Mar 23, 2023 00:50
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 Mistborn: Chaos in Luthadel, a game of Mafia for 15 players is now open.
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Mar 23, 2023 00:53
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I think it's good that a lot of people are volunteering to be resources, does anybody have any ideas for establishing duties or responsibilities if somebody says something? I think that could be helpful to give some direction on escalation, etc. But, also, honestly, the more I think about it I kind of feel like "Going to a moderator/admin outside of the mafia community" is where I keep coming back to as a good policy? I think that inherently prevents cliques/insular behaviors that could result in a variety of anti social outcomes.
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Mar 23, 2023 01:02
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