Harry Potter: Magic boat, magic train, brooms, sometimes wizards just vanish

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Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

Dabir posted:

In the early Discworld books, it seems like magical talent is innate. You have to be either the eighth son of an eighth son to be a wizard, or the son of a wizard, except that the eighth son of a wizard is a sourcerer, ie basically omnipotent. Even after the uber-spell leaves Rincewind's head and leaves him with no magical talent or ability whatsoever, he's still certain, inside, that he is a wizard, more than he's certain about almost anything. But then even that rule is flexible and possibly not even a rule at all, seeing how in the very book that introduces the idea, a wizard was able to pass his staff and his wizardly magic on to an eighth child who turned out to be a girl.

By the time you get to the Tiffany Aching stories later on, it seems like the practical, spellcasting side of magic can be taught, but there are other qualities a witch needs that you can't teach, like being a stubborn, territorial busybody who looks at the world just a bit differently from everyone around them. The Weatherwax family produced three witches, one of whom was also a fairy godmother, and a wizard, but if there's a genetic aspect to that it's not some special magic gene, it's a tendency towards the kind of personality that can reshape the universe with a glare. The first step in one of Granny Weatherwax's incantations would be "Now I ain't asking twice, you hear?"

Granny (and Nanny Ogg for that matter) both approach magic from the direction that they're going to tell the laws of nature what to do, and it'll happen because even nature doesn't want to have to explain to Granny why they didn't listen.

# ? Mar 22, 2023 23:54

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# ? May 9, 2024 19:48

Ghost Leviathan: Mar 2, 2017; Exploration is ill-advised.

Discworld also gets funny because 'innate qualities' aren't exactly solid definitions in a setting in part shaped by belief and story conventions to the point where the latter is actively recognised as a law of physics and is often exploited. And the whole plot of Equal Rites come from the wizard choosing Esk to be the next user of his staff without confirming the baby's sex, and thus Esk became a wizard. (Though also a witch) Actually the gender thing is also implied to be pretty much cultural too, since it's mentioned some countries don't care either way. Also it's outright said that Tiffany has no inherent talent for witchcraft besides that she chose to become a witch and worked drat hard at it.

Also, 'magic' is quite a broad category with lots of different aspects, including ones you don't really need to be a witch or wizard to do- but wizards and especially witches learn it anyway because it's useful. And that's not even getting into the stuff Igors get up to. And alchemy, when it works. Actually one of the few settings that goes into the 'magic as a science' approach without completely losing the 'magical' trappings.

Though also says a lot about Rowling's laziness and uncreativity that she didn't even try getting into other aspects of magic besides the silly names and how they fit into the setting.

# ? Mar 23, 2023 05:49

Cranappleberry: Jan 27, 2009; Can't post for 8 hours!

a world made entirely of discarded cds and magic relies on harnessing the latent giant magnetoresistance

# ? Mar 23, 2023 15:14

mycatscrimes: Jan 2, 2020

Dabir posted:

In the early Discworld books, it seems like magical talent is innate. You have to be either the eighth son of an eighth son to be a wizard, or the son of a wizard, except that the eighth son of a wizard is a sourcerer, ie basically omnipotent. Even after the uber-spell leaves Rincewind's head and leaves him with no magical talent or ability whatsoever, he's still certain, inside, that he is a wizard, more than he's certain about almost anything. But then even that rule is flexible and possibly not even a rule at all, seeing how in the very book that introduces the idea, a wizard was able to pass his staff and his wizardly magic on to an eighth child who turned out to be a girl.

By the time you get to the Tiffany Aching stories later on, it seems like the practical, spellcasting side of magic can be taught, but there are other qualities a witch needs that you can't teach, like being a stubborn, territorial busybody who looks at the world just a bit differently from everyone around them. The Weatherwax family produced three witches, one of whom was also a fairy godmother, and a wizard, but if there's a genetic aspect to that it's not some special magic gene, it's a tendency towards the kind of personality that can reshape the universe with a glare. The first step in one of Granny Weatherwax's incantations would be "Now I ain't asking twice, you hear?"

Part of this is that being a witch isn't really about being able to do magic. It certainly helps, but it's more of a (important!) social role. I'd argue being able to deal with magic is mandatory, though.

# ? Mar 23, 2023 20:24

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

Ghost Leviathan posted:

Though also says a lot about Rowling's laziness and uncreativity that she didn't even try getting into other aspects of magic besides the silly names and how they fit into the setting.

Most basic example being that the subject Dumbledore is most famous for, as of his introduction, is alchemy. Which never comes up again.

Much like his mentor, the immortal who apparently shrugged and decided to just die because the Philosopher's Stone was too big of a MacGuffin to exist past the book.

# ? Mar 23, 2023 20:54

feedmegin: Jul 30, 2008

Jazerus posted:

or pay someone to shoot voldemort. for a couple of years after book 7 came out there was a small fanfiction fad where the author would find some excuse for Elite Government Operators to get involved and just dome voldemort with a sniper rifle. poo poo like harry sending a letter to the queen or a royal army helicopter getting black hawk downed by the hogwarts wards

they were all bad obviously but the way non-wizards are just not present in a story ostensibly about stopping the bad guys who want to kill them all is genuinely weird

Royal Army? Alternate future where Charles 1 won? :shobon:

Anyway not sure our lot can even afford the sniper rifle.

# ? Mar 23, 2023 21:25

Regalingualius: Jan 7, 2012; We gazed into the eyes of madness... And all we found was horny.

I forget, it wasn�t ever said that there was anything inherently evil with using the philosopher�s stone, right? Just that it would unnaturally extend the user�s life?

# ? Mar 23, 2023 22:03

Lottery of Babylon: Apr 25, 2012; STRAIGHT TROPIN'

Regalingualius posted:

I forget, it wasn�t ever said that there was anything inherently evil with using the philosopher�s stone, right? Just that it would unnaturally extend the user�s life?

Correct. Unlike horcruxes and unicorn blood, the philosopher's stone is never indicated to be immoral. Which is why the Flamels have been able to stick around for 600 years and still be good.

And then they decided to commit suicide over a short-term inconvenience.

# ? Mar 23, 2023 22:28

stev: Jan 22, 2013; Please be excited.

So in the entire world there's exactly one immortality rock and one person who knows how to make it - and no one else has figured it out in the hundreds of years since he did it? Voldemort could have just made Flamel make him another stone if he wanted one so bad.

# ? Mar 23, 2023 23:51

Grundulum: Feb 28, 2006

stev posted:

So in the entire world there's exactly one immortality rock and one person who knows how to make it - and no one else has figured it out in the hundreds of years since he did it? Voldemort could have just made Flamel make him another stone if he wanted one so bad.

That would be a good reason to end one�s exceptionally long life. You know Dumbledore, he says Voldemort isn�t dead and wants the philosopher�s stone to return to full life, and Voldemort knows you know how to make another one. If you were already getting bored with existence after 600+ years, maybe that�s enough to push you over the edge: avoiding torture at the hands of a dark wizard.

# ? Mar 24, 2023 00:00

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

Thing is, Voldie is a sideshow at best, on the scale of Dark Lords this century, much less the last 600 years. He never leaves the UK once he gets a body back.

My immediate assumption on reading that bit was that Flamel bullshitted Dumbledore so he'd stop asking for favors or expecting them to die for the greater good and moved someplace harder to find, like China or San Francisco.

# ? Mar 24, 2023 01:02

Ghost Leviathan: Mar 2, 2017; Exploration is ill-advised.

The thing is you also gotta keep in mind the absolute certainty of the assumption that England is the most important place in the world.

# ? Mar 24, 2023 05:55

Shwoo: Jul 21, 2011

So is Philosopher's Stone the first time Voldemort went after the Elixir of Life? He spent decades messing around with soul splitting, and waited until he was in his sixties to pursue the immortality method with no apparent downsides except that you have to keep taking it?

Is it because Nicholas Flamel was French?

# ? Mar 24, 2023 08:17

Regalingualius: Jan 7, 2012; We gazed into the eyes of madness... And all we found was horny.

Back when he was in his prime, he might�ve been miffed at attaining that whole �conquering death� goal with a method that wasn�t his� plus the matter of Flamel (and by extension, the Stone) being at least somewhat well-known, when he was extremely cagey about keeping his horcruxes secret at all costs.

Though now I�m imagining that there�s a second catch with the Stone: to keep it powered, the user has to do something that would be so utterly antithetical to Voldemort that he just writes the whole thing off as a lost cause and moves on.

# ? Mar 24, 2023 08:44

YaketySass: Jan 15, 2019; Blind Idiot Dog

Could be the Stone just rejuvenates you but doesn't protect you from being shanked

# ? Mar 24, 2023 09:01

RoboChrist 9000: Dec 14, 2006; Mater Dolorosa

YaketySass posted:

Could be the Stone just rejuvenates you but doesn't protect you from being shanked

This. Plus I got the vibe you need to like... use it somehow every few centuries or so. Voldie doesn't seem like the guy who'd want immortality that could be taken away from him by simply stealing a mcguffin.
While their introduction is super loving clumsy, I generally think the horcruxes are a pretty good idea and fit his character and vibes pretty well. Like he's a dumb rear end in a top hat who likes making big grand gestures and showing off. It absolutely is good writing and fits his character that he'd make his horcruxes famous important objects,, rather like going the Koschei route and picking like some random grain of sand.

# ? Mar 24, 2023 09:17

stev: Jan 22, 2013; Please be excited.

If he hadn't died would his body have eventually died of old age (requiring him to be resurrected again)? If so he should probably have just covered all bases and done both when he was young.

# ? Mar 24, 2023 09:23

Cranappleberry: Jan 27, 2009; Can't post for 8 hours!

the elixir of life keeps you living indefinitely if you keep drinking it. However, its now canon that you keep aging despite taking it and also your dick falls off.

# ? Mar 24, 2023 13:19

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

One would assume a 600 year old wizard could replace their dick with something more interesting at will. Like a new dick, that plays showtunes.

# ? Mar 24, 2023 13:23

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

Liquid Communism posted:

One would assume a 600 year old wizard could replace their dick with something more interesting at will. Like a new dick, that plays showtunes.

Could even have a knob on the end!

[Ed:a knob on both ends! :dadjoke:

]

# ? Mar 24, 2023 13:24

Grundulum: Feb 28, 2006

Cranappleberry posted:

the elixir of life keeps you living indefinitely if you keep drinking it. However, its now canon that you keep aging despite taking it and also your dick falls off.

The first bit (keep aging anyway) is from Fantastic Beasts. Is the second a throwaway line somewhere, or am I just bad at joke this morning?

# ? Mar 24, 2023 13:39

Cranappleberry: Jan 27, 2009; Can't post for 8 hours!

would Voldemort want to replace his dick? I have done an in-depth textual analysis and here are my theories...

# ? Mar 24, 2023 13:56

Crashbee: May 15, 2007; Stupid people are great at winning arguments, because they're too stupid to realize they've lost.

Runcible Cat posted:

Could even have a knob on the end!

[Ed:a knob on both ends! ]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Y4540m3JCI

# ? Mar 24, 2023 14:26

Asterite34: May 19, 2009

YaketySass posted:

Could be the Stone just rejuvenates you but doesn't protect you from being shanked

It's this. Dude doesn't just want to be immortal in the "won't grow old" sense, he wants to be immortal and invincible. The integrity of his body is entirely secondary, he doesn't give a poo poo about eternal youth, he'll endure any bodily indignity like living on the back of a guy's head or being a snake-baby or reducing himself to an ephemeral wisp less than a ghost. He doesn't care long as his essential self is bound to the Earth forever and nothing can ever dislodge it, and the Elixir of Life is just not up to snuff by itself. It isn't real immortality if you can get stabbed or have a piano fall on you or choke on a fish bone and die anyway.

# ? Mar 24, 2023 14:37

Nitrousoxide: May 30, 2011; do not buy a oneplus phone

Finally, a good Harry Potter movie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iE39q-IKOzA

# ? Mar 24, 2023 14:55

Rotten Red Rod: Mar 5, 2002

RoboChrist 9000 posted:

This. Plus I got the vibe you need to like... use it somehow every few centuries or so. Voldie doesn't seem like the guy who'd want immortality that could be taken away from him by simply stealing a mcguffin.
While their introduction is super loving clumsy, I generally think the horcruxes are a pretty good idea and fit his character and vibes pretty well. Like he's a dumb rear end in a top hat who likes making big grand gestures and showing off. It absolutely is good writing and fits his character that he'd make his horcruxes famous important objects,, rather like going the Koschei route and picking like some random grain of sand.

Horcruxes would have been fine if she thought of them earlier. Like if each book culminated in finding and destroying one of his horcruxes, and they always ended up being at the center of each mystery. There's even 7 years/books and 7 horcruxes.

But no, she thought them up one book from the end, and then thought up 3 more macguffins for the last book to make it more arbitrary.

# ? Mar 24, 2023 15:10

Zesty: Jan 17, 2012; The Great Twist

If she stole the idea, earlier, maybe.

God there's so many things she lifted from other material and then made dumber. House Elves come to mind immediately.

# ? Mar 24, 2023 15:48

Jazerus: May 24, 2011

horcruxes always being at the center of the mystery would have been lame unless it was realllly leaned into in the vein of count olaf in a funny costume always being the bad guy, and i don't think jkr has ever had the chops to write comedy, so nah

there is a lot of wheel-spinning in book 5 where dumbledore refuses to tell harry anything, etc. that probably should have just been excised and replaced with the start of the horcrux plotline, that's where the series really shifts gears away from whimsical boarding school fantasy anyway

# ? Mar 24, 2023 15:50

reignofevil: Nov 7, 2008

Liquid Communism posted:

One would assume a 600 year old wizard could replace their dick with something more interesting at will. Like a new dick, that plays showtunes.

Too long to be a thread title

# ? Mar 24, 2023 15:54

Zesty: Jan 17, 2012; The Great Twist

reignofevil posted:

Too long to be a thread title

Harry Potter: replacing their dick with a new dick that plays showtunes

Doing your job for you. I believe this means I get your star.

# ? Mar 24, 2023 16:02

YaketySass: Jan 15, 2019; Blind Idiot Dog

What really gets me with the Horcruxes fetch quest is that she also uses the last book to introduce another ensemble of plot-critical artifacts.

# ? Mar 24, 2023 16:09

bobjr: Oct 16, 2012; Roose is loose.
🐓🐓🐓✊🪧

In the previous books no one would tell Harry anything, making him break all the rules and get into deadly situations to solve the mystery and save the day.

Dumbledore in book five decides to tell Harry nothing and stick him in situations where we will get increasingly frustrated until he breaks all the rules and gets in a deadly situation.

# ? Mar 24, 2023 16:14

Rotten Red Rod: Mar 5, 2002

YaketySass posted:

What really gets me with the Horcruxes fetch quest is that she also uses the last book to introduce another ensemble of plot-critical artifacts.

For years I combined the Horcruxes and Deathly Hallows in my recollection because gently caress committing anything in that awful wet fart of a book to memory.

# ? Mar 24, 2023 16:17

reignofevil: Nov 7, 2008

Zesty posted:

Harry Potter: replacing their dick with a new dick that plays showtunes

Doing your job for you. I believe this means I get your star.

# ? Mar 24, 2023 16:39

Lottery of Babylon: Apr 25, 2012; STRAIGHT TROPIN'

bobjr posted:

In the previous books no one would tell Harry anything, making him break all the rules and get into deadly situations to solve the mystery and save the day.

Dumbledore in book five decides to tell Harry nothing and stick him in situations where we will get increasingly frustrated until he breaks all the rules and gets in a deadly situation.

"We're not giving you any information because you deserve to just be a kid, don't worry the adults will handle everything" they say 0.000001 seconds after there's an assassination attempt on his life and he needs to save himself because the adults left him unguarded.

# ? Mar 24, 2023 18:00