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i used be a creationist and I believed that talking point 
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Apr 6, 2023 21:22
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lol
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Apr 6, 2023 21:23
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At least that's a "used to"
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Apr 6, 2023 21:23
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:it's pretty fair to say that nobody understands gravity. it keeps stuff on the ground, mostly. not really that hard to understand imo
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Apr 6, 2023 21:23
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echinopsis posted:i used be a creationist and I believed that talking point it's a common tactic of misinformation to create these false equivalencies like "oh evolution is a theory like any other" same thing is happening for example with the covid origin debate where people are tricked into thinking that the lab leak and natural origin hypotheses are equal. they're not.
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Apr 6, 2023 21:29
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it naturally leaked from the lab after evolving there inside a scientist
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Apr 6, 2023 21:33
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I had this book called the collapse of evolution or something that contained 1001 gotchas toward evolution and I read it and gently caress I was ready to slam those evolutionists - until I “debated” one (posted the books talking points online) and got decimated I was still a creationist afterward however, mere “facts” and “evidence” could never swag me
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Apr 6, 2023 21:34
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gravity works the same way. any time someone talks about falling down I whip out my book of sick burns and let them know that they're faking it
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Apr 6, 2023 21:37
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echinopsis posted:I had this book called the collapse of evolution or something that contained 1001 gotchas toward evolution and I read it and gently caress I was ready to slam those evolutionists - until I “debated” one (posted the books talking points online) and got decimated what convinced you in the end?
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Apr 6, 2023 21:38
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he watched a guy smash a clock up inside a bag and dump it out on the ground. and then it evolved into a working clock before his very eyes. A true miracle of science
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Apr 6, 2023 21:40
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https://youtu.be/86LswUDdb0w
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Apr 6, 2023 21:48
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i was given a "creationist science" book for christmas one year. i sort of expected it to try to argue against scientific theory with other plausible theories, but none of it made any sense even on the most basic level. there was one part that showed a fossil of a dragon fly and stated that, because the fossil was so well preserved, it had clearly been killed in the catastrophic disaster of noah's flood. ah yes, catastrophic destruction, something i always associate with not damaging things. also noah's flood, the only natural disaster capable of killing a dragon fly. i guess the intended audience is people who have already bought into it entirely and just want to nod along to a "science" book without thinking about anything for even a second. *edit* oh yeah, that bit about the dragon fly also said that it can't be millions of years old because it looks identical to a modern dragonfly. an argument that literally presupposes that evolution is real. Chalks fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Apr 6, 2023 |
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Apr 6, 2023 21:55
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optics grandpa doesn't post often but when he does it's always v good. he did a two-parter on coherent light a little while ago that I thought was v educational. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtcq5b0R65w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nba4ztLBEh0
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Apr 6, 2023 22:00
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Dijkstracula posted:same, but it probably isn't as good as Sean Carroll's pandemic lockdown lecture on the subject thanks for this, I’ll take a look for sure BlankSystemDaemon posted:It's "fine" to say that other YouTube videos of understanding of gravity is lacking, because unless there's been a pretty radical change in the scientific community - which we would almost certainly have heard about, given the big impact it'd have had - it's pretty fair to say that nobody understands gravity. this is what I thought… I (somewhat) understand the concept of action at a distance and how gravity doesn’t fit into any current unification theory. I’ve read “In search of Schrödinger’s Cat” and “the God Particle”, lol recently I watched a couple of those other vids and was surprised they seemed able to explain it. their argument seems to boil down to: Gravity is caused by differing time dilation with respect to the observer the video I linked says that’s not it, and fair enough. I just thought maybe our understanding had changed and I hadn’t been notified in accordance with the physics phone tree we all agreed to
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Apr 6, 2023 22:04
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Chalks posted:what convinced you in the end? tbh I don’t remember if I stopped believing in creation as much as just started challenging my own faith toward end of my christian life we went to a church that was much more bible based, it wasn’t pentecostal and a consequence of putting a lot more time into study of the bible was naturally questioning things like why these 66 books? and the end answer to all my questions was that you have to make that leap of faith, that there were no satisfying answers to those questions you just had to believe. and I couldn’t and then I went to university at this stage and was studying science and I remember being in a tent with my now ex wife and telling her I didn’t think jesus was real anymore (or not the son of god anyway) and she was sad but in the morning it did make her realise that I was the one here with her and not jesus and she followed soon and then did the typical swing the other way into obnoxious atheism lol, this was peak dick dawkins era too
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Apr 6, 2023 22:05
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TheFluff posted:optics grandpa doesn't post often but when he does it's always v good. he did a two-parter on coherent light a little while ago that I thought was v educational. i’m gonna watch the gently caress out of these
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Apr 6, 2023 22:05
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:It's "fine" to say that other YouTube videos of understanding of gravity is lacking, because unless there's been a pretty radical change in the scientific community - which we would almost certainly have heard about, given the big impact it'd have had - it's pretty fair to say that nobody understands gravity. I gotta watch the video until the end but the way I see it is not about questioning youtubers' understanding of gravity, it's about questioning their fluency in applying the general relativity theory. I think the idea of time difference creating some kinda torque that influences the space dimension is absolutely mind blowing. So wild that I'm inclined to believe it's just popscience people not understanding GR really. But again, I'm not a physicist. I'll watch his argument more carefully. Symbolic Butt fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Apr 6, 2023 |
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Apr 6, 2023 22:48
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Symbolic Butt posted:I gotta watch the video until the end but the way I see it is not about questioning youtubers' understanding of gravity, it's about questioning their fluency in applying the general relativity theory. I remember being young at university and I said to a 3rd year physics student something about matter being a standing wave and he said to me something like "the actual answers involve a lot of complex and involved equations and theories and concepts and it's not something that cna be understood without all of that background" and thats stuck with me forever
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Apr 6, 2023 22:56
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one of the most frustrating things in the world is the lovely stemlord sophomore who doesn't understand how science works this is not in direct response to anyone above. the discussion just reminded me of some of those types from the d&d subforum and, less common, when i was teaching. when i was teaching you could set em right pretty easy but the internet ones were _woof_
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Apr 6, 2023 23:07
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echinopsis posted:I remember being young at university and I said to a 3rd year physics student something about matter being a standing wave and he said to me something like "the actual answers involve a lot of complex and involved equations and theories and concepts and it's not something that cna be understood without all of that background" and thats stuck with me forever He's right but he's a shitlord, because he could play ball with you: instead of going deep into complex linear algebra he could've just told you some examples of how matter is NOT like a standing wave and be like "it's actually more weird than that, you see"
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Apr 6, 2023 23:16
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Here's your science education: https://twitter.com/JeremyTate41/status/1643450631347224576
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Apr 7, 2023 00:01
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lol @ marx being "late modern philosophy"
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Apr 7, 2023 00:04
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i mean lol at a lot of it, i just picked one
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Apr 7, 2023 00:05
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There is a lot to dunk on there, depending on your specialism. I'm a fan of the mathematics curriculum's smash cut from Archimedes' Quadrature of the Parabola to General Relativity.
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Apr 7, 2023 00:30
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Symbolic Butt posted:He's right but he's a shitlord, because he could play ball with you: instead of going deep into complex linear algebra he could've just told you some examples of how matter is NOT like a standing wave and be like "it's actually more weird than that, you see" eh in some ways it was an important thing to learn because I realised it applied to lots of things, before that I would come up with stoned ideas of how the world worked and believe it lol
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Apr 7, 2023 00:43
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Symbolic Butt posted:
thx, this is exactly why I posted the question except communicated better
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Apr 7, 2023 00:43
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Doom Mathematic posted:There is a lot to dunk on there, depending on your specialism. I'm a fan of the mathematics curriculum's smash cut from Archimedes' Quadrature of the Parabola to General Relativity. I think there's a single digit number of names belonging to people whose work belonged to the 20th century or later education preparing you for a well rounded life in 1910.
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Apr 7, 2023 00:44
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Doom Mathematic posted:Here's your science education:
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Apr 7, 2023 00:52
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rotor posted:lol @ marx being "late modern philosophy" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_modern_period
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Apr 7, 2023 01:12
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namlosh posted:thanks for this, I’ll take a look for sure That he then goes on to handwave a bunch of explanations, which don't account for propagation and our inability to integrate gravity with the standard model of particle physics as well as how none of what he's talking relates to quantum mechanics, is just about par for the course. I'm not sure about the best way to go about science education, but I'm sure taking a page out of tabloids is a good solution. Symbolic Butt posted:I gotta watch the video until the end but the way I see it is not about questioning youtubers' understanding of gravity, it's about questioning their fluency in applying the general relativity theory. Sure these things help in establishing a basis, but all too many people are stuck with these notions. Even people who've been piled higher and deeper in a narrow subject, can harbor these lies to children in areas they're not expert in. Achmed Jones posted:one of the most frustrating things in the world is the lovely stemlord sophomore who doesn't understand how science works The best thing about science is still that for all the answers we get, we get even more questions. mystes posted:Imagine spending 4 years slogging through all of that to discover that it's all 100% pointless/obsolete knowledge If you're lucky, you'll have learned critical thinking and other things along the way, but that's absolutely not a given as it typically isn't part of a curriculum.
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Apr 7, 2023 01:15
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:Nah, once the four years are over, you're now one of the worlds foremost experts in a field so narrow, unless you choose to work within that field, it's useless.
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Apr 7, 2023 01:20
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mystes posted:Is this supposed to be some sort of joke that it's no different than grad school? The "Nah" seems kinda dismissive on a second read, but it wasn't meant that way.
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Apr 7, 2023 01:26
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well, the college is delivering what it advertises: https://www.thomasaquinas.edu/a-liberating-education/program-objectives https://www.thomasaquinas.edu/a-liberating-education/syllabus quote:Moral I'll be contrarian and say that while the syllabus would not prepare you AT ALL for most jobs (and certainly not YOSPOS jobs lol), it'd be pretty good as a pre-seminary school or pre-law or getting into a philosophy phd program. It's vaguely like a liberal arts degree in classics with other stuff thrown in; https://classics.dartmouth.edu/menufeature/curriculum/classical-studies-courses some of those freshman texts, like Plato's Apology and Republic, are heavy-duty reading for 18-year-olds. in general the world would probably be a better place if people go through their lives even reading 1/10 of the texts listed just for development of critical thinking skills. Locke's second treatise on civil government more or less underpinned the prime ideas in the US declaration of independence, but people have largely forgotten about it these days
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Apr 7, 2023 01:36
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=505UazMNgLg
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Apr 7, 2023 01:47
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pmchem posted:well, the college is delivering what it advertises: Compare that to normal introductory philosophy classes, which are literally 100% just critical thinking
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Apr 7, 2023 01:50
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welp
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Apr 7, 2023 01:56
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pmchem posted:it'd be pretty good as a pre-seminary I'll bet it would!!! hahahah
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Apr 7, 2023 01:57
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lol what a joke like there’s something to be said about some of the examples dawkins picks on in religion but overall he’s correct and lol at the idea of a tv personality going up against him, dawkins is the fuckin goat lmao, he’s not just some guy who later on in life decided to dislike god
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Apr 7, 2023 02:13
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maybe it's just that I was almost a classics major but I could see that curriculum being pretty interesting tbqh
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Apr 7, 2023 02:18
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icwDF8wRgF4
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Apr 7, 2023 02:19
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