whitehelm posted:No, if someone gets 9 points but all 4 of their cards are on the table, everyone ties with 0. Oh yeah, that works. Even with the traitors, I think you can still make this relatively safe. If you can agree on someone to be the winner, and they're trustworthy, you can get rid of their cards by having multiple people try to pick it up, and therefore ripping it up. Obviously this is ruined if a traitor is picked or they have one of the dominant cards. Not sure what the odds are like assuming two traitors as we are so far. Of course the traitors could sabotage this by giving the designed player negative points. I guess it depends on how public actions are. One advantage the group has, is this is continuing from the route where they trusted everyone, so they have a good track record so far, and nothing in the rules say you can't show the group what your hand is on your computer, just that they can't operate it. Have everyone show their hands after each round, and anyone who doesn't want to, they're suspicious and the group can take actions to exclude them. Marluxia fucked around with this message at 02:51 on May 5, 2023 |
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# ? Jun 15, 2024 12:37 |
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NeoRonTheNeuron posted:Is it just me or is this sequence feeling bad? Yeah, this :/ I dunno, maybe it’ll kick rear end. Hopefully it does. Sheesh, though, couldn’t they have at least picked something other’n a school for Loop 2?
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I think part of the feeling of "Gosh darn it, I thought we were getting this wrapped up, not diving into a whole 'nother death game" may be because the Ace route isn't locked, so a player could, by finding the Sheep's Clothing and Second Caw on the other routes, potentially figure out how to get to the "everyone lives" route after just a few routes vs. going through all the 12 "animal" routes like in this LP. Pacing would be inherently tricky if the path to get to the "Cat" route could be a widely varying amount of routes long, depending on the player's luck and ability to put 2 and 2 together. Though since the previous conceit of the multiple routes is that the death game isn't actually happening--it's just a person running mental simulations of what they think will happen, so of course death isn't going to end things and they can go through as many permutations of events as they like--it's possible that this is just going to be a straightforward shot to the end sort of deal. Unless, of course, these current events are part of another mental simulation exercise. Shoot, it could even involve Mouse running the same sort of mental simulations and providing her own "post-mortem" commentary (though not to the same degree, since presumably Mouse doesn't know where all the cards are unless there are some memory/multiple personality shenanigans going on here; I'd guess that it would more be like "I snapped out of my reverie [at the last choice before dying]. I decided that I definitely shouldn't [bad choice], as it would only [bad thing caused by bad choice]") Still, since we've had all the other "animal" routes out of the way, it makes sense for Cat to be a single route on its own. (Perhaps the Joker card?)
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You do need information from at least three routes to get Aces: You need to have learned Ox/Davis's, Bunny/Gerry's, and Tiger/Zahara's names from each of their respective routes.
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YEAH I WAS WAITING ON THE CAT But seriously though another death game? ![]()
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I mean, the previous game was the Zodiac Race; now we're on the game's proper namesake! I'm very curious about what's happening here, in the sense of why: did Brian's accomplice decide to take another go at it? Or did another party hijack the players? Dog's murder suggests that this time the goal may be to cover up the blackmail/corruption scheme, but if so why not just kill Mouse/Snake/Dragon right there? I can accept that the first game's goal was to kill them while making it look like an outcome of the game rather than murder, but they were already missing to the world at large here so this can't have been the easier option. Which suggests the culprit is after something different than Brian's accomplice was, or that the changing situation has changed the goal in some way. Worth noting Cat is either monitoring in real time, or Monkey's in on it. She's the only one who gets a reaction, and a conveniently non-lethal one at that; I could see that being staged to create the illusion that Cat isn't one of the people here. Another thing that supports that conclusion is one of the rule differences: instead of using another's device executing the other person, it executes you. Which, if the one of the contestants is running the game, is a good way to ensure that no one discovers that they have special functions on their own computer.
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Junpei posted:You do need information from at least three routes to get Aces: You need to have learned Ox/Davis's, Bunny/Gerry's, and Tiger/Zahara's names from each of their respective routes. Ox's name isn't explicitly tied to his route, right? It's part of the 'who to group with' decisions, but that can lead to several routes, including Ox's own, or even Mouse's.
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It's kind of interesting how Dog's token has been replaced with Cat's. Makes one wonder if Cat is going to be playing as well, or it's just simply a replacement to keep the game consistent while it doesn't participate. However, therein lies one problem. If Cat is also participating, it's very likely they will manipulate the game so they are the dominant animal and execute everyone, or become one of the 4 "safe" animals which can take the spot away from someone much more deserving. That is, assuming Cat is also participating as a "replacement" for Dog. Cat never said that they would or would not, so who knows.
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Weird game. -If someone becomes the dominant animal, but has no copies of their own card (and other players do) then their reward for top scoring is just killing themselves. -Players can give each other cards. But they can’t refuse to take them. So if a front runner had no copies of their own card they could get forced into top scoring against their will. -Players cards are most valuable to themselves, but an even bigger factor is aiming for cards that other people don’t want. -Animals next to Dog have an advantage since he won’t be competing for cards. -Presumably rounds won’t say who took what card. Only that a card was taken (and maybe a different message if it was destroyed due to 2 takers). The Check option is pretty pointless if the game it announced who took what card, hell it seems pretty pointless even without that information. -Presumably amassing a >9 point hand also works for becoming the dominant animal. And I guess an 11 point hand would take priority for dominant animal over a 10 point hand, which in turn would take priority over a 9 point hand? -In theory you want to try to pick up cards for players that you think will score high. Except the mechanics of it don’t really work. -Dominant animal having all cards on the table is one way for all participants to survive, but it’s vulnerable to traitors swiping the cards for the proposed winner. Perhaps a better method is destroying the cards for one player then making them the dominant animal. Sketchie posted:It's kind of interesting how Dog's token has been replaced with Cat's. Makes one wonder if Cat is going to be playing as well, or it's just simply a replacement to keep the game consistent while it doesn't participate. I don’t think the token has changed I think Dogs token always looked like that
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ZCKaiser posted:Another thing that supports that conclusion is one of the rule differences: instead of using another's device executing the other person, it executes you. Which, if the one of the contestants is running the game, is a good way to ensure that no one discovers that they have special functions on their own computer. To be fair, the tablets were held on your person, which meant you could take them with you and protect them from other people interacting with them. From the description earlier, it sounds like the computers are in static locations. That would mean that anyone could walk into your room, tap the computer, and kill you remotely.
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It also means that nobody could use Dog's computer for their own purposes since, well, he's already dead.
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Ah, can we call this the Andrew Lloyd Webber route? After all, a Cat is not a Dog!
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Dirk the Average posted:To be fair, the tablets were held on your person, which meant you could take them with you and protect them from other people interacting with them. From the description earlier, it sounds like the computers are in static locations. That would mean that anyone could walk into your room, tap the computer, and kill you remotely. quote:I realized I was in another classroom.
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Mouse: So, what was strapped to my stomach? I lifted up my shirt and took a look. It was... some sort of metal device. If we were to go by precedent, it was probably a device that could kill me. Awesome. Was it even worth trying to get it off me when I already knew the outcome of such an attempt? Probably not. I decided to go check out the computer. Last time it was a tablet. Now a computer? I tried interacting with it, but it was powered down. Great. Well... there was but so much that could be done inside this classroom. At some point, I'd need to move forwards. The computer is a separate object.
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Elite posted:
The existence of negative points implies to me that you need exactly a 9 point hand.
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Elite posted:I don’t think the token has changed I think Dogs token always looked like that
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malkav11 posted:The existence of negative points implies to me that you need exactly a 9 point hand. If you don’t need exactly 9 then negative cards would still be useful for sabotaging someone that you don’t want to win. And it’s not like players need negative point cards to adjust their point totals downwards either, they could SET or GIVE to get rid of cards.
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Actually kinda reminds me of Virtue's Last Reward except you don't die if you get negative points.
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ApplesandOranges posted:Actually kinda reminds me of Virtue's Last Reward except you don't die if you get negative points. I donno, if it was VLR it'd be hosted by an animal avatar who was seemingly the third host of the death game. It's kind of hard to tell if Rooster is still acting, or legitimately angry. He seems at minimum to have been an accomplice to Bowen's murder (probably removed the murder weapon, and possibly the speakers that were used to 'fire' Aaron), if not the killer himself, so this game might be intended to call him out.
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![]() [BGM: Ox's Logic] ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() And like that, people began to disperse. Class dismissed. Frankly, I wasn't so confident everything would go nearly as cleanly as Ox claimed it would. I was also still confused about so many points. There were a lot of mysteries about, and I could feel myself on the cusp of solving at least a few of them. The key had to lie with the incident surrounding Amadeus Bowen's murder. To get to the bottom of it, I needed to interrogate more people. So, it was just a matter of who to talk to. [BGM: Silence] ![]() What, you didn't think we'd have at least one more route gimmick before the end of the game? ![]() ![]() Ox prosecuted Mr. Morris. He should have a thorough grasp of the case. I decided to find him and talk about his perspective on all of this. ... [BGM: Ox's Logic] ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() [BGM: Silence] ![]() With everything settled, I left Ox to himself. Tiger was another key witness in the incident... She probably had some insights worth discussing. I paid her a visit in the classroom she was lounging in. … [BGM: Queen of the Jungle] ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() And with that, my time with Tiger came to a close. ...Bunny was the actual cop on the scene, right? He ought to have some insights for me. I paid him a visit. … [BGM: Lucky Foot] ![]() ![]() ![]() Bunny stood nonchalantly, leaning against a wall. He was tossing a small globe up in the air with his left hand. From what I could tell, I guess he was left-handed. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() And just like that, I walked away from him. ... I still couldn't fit Dragon into the puzzle. For that reason alone, I needed to talk to her. She didn't look all too pleased to see me. [BGM: Eyes of the Dragon] ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() I sighed, then walked away. There wasn't much else I could do. ... Snake was a critical witness in all of this. He must have some sort of insight. However, after I found him, I was met with something of a wall. [BGM: Dance of the Snakes] ![]() ![]() ![]() I sighed. I was afraid of this. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() And with that seemingly dismissive comment, Snake dismissed me. So I left. *BWAAAAAAAAAAM!!* Before I could talk to anyone else, the speakers began to blare. Ow, my ears... I guess this was the two minute warning The Cat was referring to? Anyways, the point was made clearly.
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Huh. Seems Mouse is... speedrunning their development? Kinda weird, I guess the game wants to keep the simulation development real but also doesn't want to spend 15h rerunning. Which fair I guess. Also Dragon seems to have been chosen to die because the culprit thinks she saw something at the bar? Maybe the mastermind had a deal with Bowen they want to snuff out?
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Mix. posted:
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Uh, Bunny... what the gently caress is going on with your neck?
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Bruh, why is mouse so pushy with people. Like, she wasn't that preachy on the "Aces" route, (the one that happened IRL), so what's up with that.
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So, Sheep had a master key the entire time, which means the whole idea that Aaron Morris was the only one who could have committed the murder because he was the only one who could have stolen Amadeus Bowen's master key at the bar is nonsense. And I'm guessing Dragon was there when that was supposed to go down, which is why she's a target; if she remembered clearly, she could have testified that Aaron Morris didn't steal the key. And those two facts are the only thing that make him a more likely suspect than anyone else present that day. Snake and Rooster both went into his office as well. And hey, Tiger just said that the door blocked the window when open--so she couldn't see into the office so long as the door was left open, meaning if someone left the door opened or was followed inside, Tiger wouldn't have seen! So, almost everyone at the office had the opportunity to kill Amadeus Bowen, and literally everybody had a potential motive due to the massive blackmail scheme. Moreover, each of them is someone who can and has killed in a route in cold blood, including setting up complicated schemes to throw blame off themselves (Snake and Rooster's whole routes, Tiger's sniper rifle/iron bar gambit, Sheep's fake trap). And even then, that's assuming multiple weren't working together to kill him because, frankly, he gave people plenty of motive to do just that.
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Regallion posted:Bruh, why is mouse so pushy with people. Like, she wasn't that preachy on the "Aces" route, (the one that happened IRL), so what's up with that. Mouse really told Dragon “have you tried not being a criminal? and your gang too”
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Regallion posted:Bruh, why is mouse so pushy with people. Like, she wasn't that preachy on the "Aces" route, (the one that happened IRL), so what's up with that. Well, mouse’s deal is that she’s good at shutting down her emotions. Something she’s doing right now. So if she’s able to repress her panic, she may also be repressing her ability to feel empathy, or embarrassment. You know, those emotions that keep you from acting like an all knowing jackass. Or she could genuinely just be acting like a jerk as a reaction to ‘just’ seeing someone killed right in front of her.
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Bunny being left-handed feels like an innocuous but totally important detail the game slipped in.
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A relatively straightforward solution this time. No trinkets to seek or traitors so far, so things should go ok as long as the cards appear in a reasonable spread. It is possible that this new game was not set up by Monkey and Rooster. If there's a different set of masterminds for it, Oliver Bowen, Bunny, and Dog could have something going, and this is a chance for them to figure out who the original culprits were and retrieve the pen. In this scenario, Dog faked his death, signing something weird to Mouse. Much of the case relies on the presence of Amadeus Bowen in his office at some point. Supposedly, he'd met with his contractor Horse and possibly spoken to Sheep. If that is not confirmed, then it's possible that Bunny delivered the body into the safe and acted as cleanup crew for Oliver Bowen.
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There's three statements in this update that relate to each other and lead to a big contradiction. Ox says that the reason Morris was suspected is that the body was found much quicker than expected. Why was the body found so quickly? Bunny says it's because Tiger told him Bowen hadn't left the office. But Tiger now points out that she couldn't actually see who was entering or leaving the room because the office door fully blocks hers when opened. So why would she tell that to Bunny? It's very suspicious. This also further hurts her alibi. If the view into her room is blocked whenever you open the office door, nobody would really be able to see if she was still in the room. Also, I don't buy Dragon's explanation of her involvement.
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Also worth considering that at that point, Snake had left the building. So she no longer has an alibi from after that. It doesn't mean she killed him (the coroner put the time of death at the latest at the point when Snake left), but she could have done other things in relation to the body.
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NeoRonTheNeuron posted:A relatively straightforward solution this time. No trinkets to seek or traitors so far, so things should go ok as long as the cards appear in a reasonable spread. Mouse saw Dog die, and his body is apparently in the room there, so he's, uh, probably not in on it.
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So Tiger was reading a light magazine while waiting for her appointment? Something we know she isn't able to do? (Assuming the revelations that weren't present in the Aces route are real, but it would be a dick move on the developers if they weren't.)
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ZCKaiser posted:Mouse saw Dog die, and his body is apparently in the room there, so he's, uh, probably not in on it. ![]() ...but yeah it's a lot more likely he's not in on it.
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SporkChan posted:So Tiger was reading a light magazine while waiting for her appointment? Something we know she isn't able to do? She didn’t say she was reading a light magazine, she said she was reading a magazine but it was light reading. So possibly she was just squinting at the pictures as she skimmed through. Still a good catch though.
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She goes to decent lengths to hide her poor eyesight, so I would suspect that holding up a magazine and pretending to read it to pass the time is a thing that she might have been doing.
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It seems very unlikely to me from a "conservation of plot points" standpoint that we'd go to such lengths to establish that Tiger Can't Read, and then have her alibi conspicuously involve reading, if it weren't intended to be an obvious hole in the story.
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![]() [BGM: Mousetrap] ![]() I hurried over to the classroom which I woke up in. There, I found the computer with the Mouse image attached to it. Looking at the computer again, it was clear that someone had just cut out a generic mouse logo and attached it to the computer. This... it felt a lot cheaper than the previous production. Well, I guess that was to be expected; this whole thing had a different vibe. It would have to, since it was being hosted by somebody else. It had to be. Because Brian was dead. ...Right? No, Ox told me that they had positively identified him in the explosion. The police had guaranteed it. The police... … Before I could think about it any more, the screen in front of me flashed to life. Time to input an action! Immediately, I was a bit taken aback by how barebones the whole production was. It was just a black screen with green text I could mouse over and click on. This really was a rushjob, clearly not made by the same people. However, there was no time to focus on such details. The input window was only 33 seconds! Shockingly low. So low as to prevent you from thinking clearly. ![]() First things first, time to read the communal table. -Mouse of Hearts -Ox of Hearts -Tiger of Hearts -Tiger of Clubs -Tiger of Diamonds -Tiger of Spades -Bunny of Hearts -Dragon of Hearts -Snake of Hearts This was... The results of this communal pool were very disturbing. However, I didn't have time to contemplate it too much. My job was unchanged. I saw a Mouse card, I needed to grab a Mouse card. I clicked TAKE, then scrolled over Mouse of Hearts. And like that, the computer shut off. Task done. [BGM: Silence] ![]() Now, time to deal with the fallout of that communal table. I already had some thoughts about it, but I imagined the group would have plenty more– *BOOOOOM!* The hell was that? I made my way to the source of the noise – a classroom on the second floor – and after looking inside, immediately turned around. The classroom was nicely decorated. The walls were all marked with directions on the compass rose – an eastern wall, a western wall, et cetera. There was a big bookshelf by the door, desks for the students, and a desk for the teacher with a computer. But none of that was what drew my attention. What drew my attention was Dog's flaming corpse. A few others had gathered around the scene, and were experiencing similar reactions as mine. What... was this? A moment's thinking led me to the answer. Of course. Failure to input an action would result in execution. Dog, being dead, couldn't exactly input a move. Circle gets the Square. Without the space in my head for another thought on this subject, I turned around and made my way back to the library, where people were meeting. [BGM: Final Squeal] ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() [BGM: Dance of the Snakes] ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() And like that, the group order had been re-established. However, it felt markedly more fragile than before. Like it was a hair's breadth away from shattering. ...But that couldn't be helped. As the group split up, I decided to resume my investigation. Horse's role in all of this was heavily suspect. Why was he there in the first place? I felt like getting to the bottom of this would be an important point. ... [BGM: A True Foal] ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Horse merely raised an eyebrow. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Horse stood there in silence for a couple of seconds before responding. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Horse didn't respond to this. ...And once it became clear he wasn't planning on responding any time soon, I left him alone, leaving with more questions than answers. … Sheep was Bowen's secretary. She should've known him the best. Certainly, she had insights into the case. [BGM: Lamb to the Slaughter] ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Curiosity stated, I left Sheep to herself. … I hadn't heard much from Rooster about the whole incident, but he was also there. Surely he had something to chip in to this debate, right? I found him wandering outside the auditorium, as though he was also looking for someone. [BGM: Rooster Style] ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Rooster smiled an oddly somber smile. It was a side of him I hadn't seen before. ![]() ![]() And just like that, our conversation was over. Mix. fucked around with this message at 13:17 on May 16, 2023 |
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So I know everyone wants to leave as fast as possible, but there are 12 rounds. There was no need to rush to collect or rip up cards. Sure, you should collect for the designated winner. But you only need a few people collecting. 8 people can guaranteed rip up cards from the designated winner. 2 traitors won't pose a problem unless they are paired with each other. With Dog's body gone and the low production value of this game, this could still be a massive fakeout. (Also, Rooster found the knife, didn't he?) EDIT: knife, not pen NeoRonTheNeuron fucked around with this message at 23:00 on May 10, 2023 |
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# ? Jun 15, 2024 12:37 |
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We don't know how many traitors (if any) are there, there could be 11 for all we know.
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