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Arbite posted:We're the final Ackbar v Pellaeon campaigns before Spectre of the Past ever detailed? I hadn't heard about this showdown until today. Edit: I guess those guides really are essential.
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Jun 16, 2023 03:03
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The Essential Atlas and the Essential Guide to Warfare are both extremely well researched and are really the culmination of how to collate bits of disparate info from across the EU together. They came out shortly before the Disney purchase but the work was so extensive that a lot of stuff from them, especially the Atlas, is still used. I think the Atlas invented the term Wild Space which then got mentioned in TFA so that’s a pretty good sign for how central it still is.
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Jun 16, 2023 04:18
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Nah Wild Space as a term has been around for a while it definitely predates the Atlas.
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Jun 16, 2023 04:27
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Looking at the Legends mentions of Wild Space on Wookieepedia, the earliest thing on the list is a short story by Timothy Zahn published in a d6 RPG supplement called "Adventure Journal 11" dating to 1996. It doesn't seem to be used there (in the first bit of the story) in the way that it would later be used, but Zahn probably coined it so far as Star Wars is concerned. It's where he placed the Empire of the Hand in the Specter/Vision duology, so of the old EU authors I suspect he made the most use of it too. Correct me if I'm wrong there. The supplement is archived here: http://d6holocron.com/downloads/books/WEG41011.pdf Lemniscate Blue fucked around with this message at 05:10 on Jun 16, 2023 |
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Jun 16, 2023 05:08
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And I just discovered that Adventure Journal 11 also contains a short story by one Pablo Hidalgo, featuring a Squib droid merchant in Mos Eisley named Mace Windu.
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Jun 16, 2023 06:43
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OhFunny posted:The difference makes sense since the big change between the new and old canon post-RoTJ is how long the war continues. The NuCanon “the war ends after a year” thing is still so monumentally loving stupid to me that I refuse to accept it and it’s one of the major reasons I can’t get invested in the NuCanon. So this franchise called Star Wars ends its Star Wars after a year and then has 3 decades of unprecedented peace while there are maybe occasional border skirmishes with the occasional Imperial commander flaring up once in a while? Completely idiotic storytelling that writes the setting into a corner. I’m beyond frustrated that my starfighter pilot RPG group has chosen to follow the NuCanon, it means we get to compress all of our X-wing vs TIE Fighter shenanigans into a single year post-Endor before we’re effectively out of a job. loving stupid.
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Jun 16, 2023 06:46
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The post-sequel trilogy stuff tends to agree that "war ends with jakku" was a dumb idea which is why Gideon being active during The Mandalorian and now Thrawn returning appears to be walking it all back a bit.
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Jun 16, 2023 11:33
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The war with the Empire has ended The war against everything else, including remnants of said Empire, has not Or I guess the war against Palpatine has ended?
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Jun 16, 2023 11:57
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Somehow, Empire returned
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Jun 16, 2023 12:03
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Well the rest of the galaxy is still waging war against the remnants but the Nu Canon New Republic is too busy dismantling warships and destroying captured Imperial technology to bother with anything outside of their territory.
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Jun 16, 2023 12:10
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Arc Hammer posted:Nah Wild Space as a term has been around for a while it definitely predates the Atlas. Looking it up it wasn't Wild Space, it was Western Reaches. Was definitely weird to hear that term coming from Harrison Ford in the theater on TFA opening night. Same with hearing "YT-freighter" and "New Republic" being used on screen. Arc Hammer posted:Well the rest of the galaxy is still waging war against the remnants but the Nu Canon New Republic is too busy dismantling warships and destroying captured Imperial technology to bother with anything outside of their territory. I think the Filoni movie was explicitly described as featuring "the war between the Empire and the New Republic" which is such a funny turnaround from what was established in 2015. I think if they really had wanted to make things different from the old EU they should have just gone with the premise that the Empire immediately collapses after Endor as implied in the ROTJ ending montage. That at least would have been different, and could still have provided them with story potential in how a New Republic gets established out of all of that chaos. As it is, it felt like they wanted to do that, but also wanted to squeeze in time to have whatever post-ROTJ Empire vs. New Republic battles, and so did the year date as bare minimum. And the limits to that quickly became obvious.
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Jun 16, 2023 14:25
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I always wondered about the strictures Lucasfilm placed on Bantam, like if we got so much Imperial Remnant was because they didn't want a writer stepping on anything Lucasfilm might do, like how prickly they got according to Zahn referencing anything to do with the Clone Wars (back when we thought it was a war against clones).
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Jun 16, 2023 15:21
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Dawgstar posted:I always wondered about the strictures Lucasfilm placed on Bantam, like if we got so much Imperial Remnant was because they didn't want a writer stepping on anything Lucasfilm might do, like how prickly they got according to Zahn referencing anything to do with the Clone Wars (back when we thought it was a war against clones). According to people who worked at Marvel, after ROTJ Lucasfilm didn't let them advance the plot in any meaningful way, apparently because Lucas hadn't made up his mind on sequels yet. That's why the Marvel comics went on for three years after ROTJ came out but Han and Leia's relationship never advanced, Luke never trained new Jedi, we never saw any details at all about the Empire, the Rebels didn't really change. I think by the early 90s things had changed enough that Lucas didn't really care what post-ROTJ things did, because according to him the "real" story had ended (though he was involved in minor ways with various book plotting in the Bantam era, especially early on). I think the reason why Bantam focused so much on Imperial warlords vs. the New Republic was that that was the template that Zahn established, as with so much of the EU, and so people kept going with it. As a case in point, when Dark Empire was being developed at the same time but independently as Zahn's books, and was originally going to be set right after ROTJ, it depicted an Empire that immediately splintered and collapsed after the Battle of Endor, with only the returned Emperor able to reunify them for the attack on Coruscant (or "the Imperial Planet" as it was originally called).
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Jun 16, 2023 17:39
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Calax posted:I do think that nobody had quite the idea exactly how ANY republic works in the Star Wars universe. In theory, they're all unified and operate in the same way that the USA does with a head of state and a representative body with a singular cohesive military. Jazerus posted:yeah the new republic is basically still facing a peer opponent until zsinj goes down a few years after thrawn. until they grabbed kuat there was always somebody able to mount up a credible threat on the back of its shipyards Xenomrph posted:The NuCanon “the war ends after a year” thing is still so monumentally loving stupid to me that I refuse to accept it and it’s one of the major reasons I can’t get invested in the NuCanon. 
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Jun 16, 2023 21:35
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Arquinsiel posted:The only stretch there is the declaring war bit. Each US state does have its own standing military. Yeah but the Empire did in fact materially lose at Jakku, the war was over. According to (my understanding of) the fiction, the Empire committed all of their available military might at Jakku and lost soundly. The franchise fiction hasn’t tried to spin it like “MISSION ACCOMPLISHED” New Republic propaganda.
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Jun 16, 2023 21:49
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It just went away and waited a bunch of time and then when the New Republic had withdrawn all military assets to the capital it did a big push and overthrew it all. In a way TFA was prophetic.
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Jun 16, 2023 22:10
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Xenomrph posted:Yeah but the Empire did in fact materially lose at Jakku, the war was over. According to (my understanding of) the fiction, the Empire committed all of their available military might at Jakku and lost soundly. The franchise fiction hasn’t tried to spin it like “MISSION ACCOMPLISHED” New Republic propaganda. It's not really worth thinking about it too much, but thinking about it too much that always felt weird. You'd think the Empire would still have a much more massive fleet even then.
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Jun 16, 2023 23:24
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Xenomrph posted:Yeah but the Empire did in fact materially lose at Jakku, the war was over. According to (my understanding of) the fiction, the Empire committed all of their available military might at Jakku and lost soundly. The franchise fiction hasn’t tried to spin it like “MISSION ACCOMPLISHED” New Republic propaganda. My memory of Empire's End is a bit hazy but I believe the "committing all of their available might" wasn't so much an actual strategic decision as it was "one of the Emperor's remaining toadies getting the majority of the Imperial and NR fleets in orbit while the hidden superweapon on Jakku cooks off in the final death throe of Operation Cinder" Of course it doesn't happen quite according to plan, Admiral Sloane takes a bunch of forces off to form the First Order, and most of the NR fleet makes it out anyway because the superweapon is sabotaged
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Jun 17, 2023 00:23
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Maybe the new canon writers wanted the victory in Return of the Jedi to usher in a period of peace and prosperity instead of the EU's decades of escalating misery and hell, sputtering out in a shower of child molestation and used syringes 
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Jun 17, 2023 05:26
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Sheev being Sheev and directing that toadie, plus with TRoS being out now, the whole point of it was to get enough of the Imperial Fleet into one place and to carefully prune out the people who didn't serve his interests so that the survivors could go and First Orderise themselves elsewhere while leaving the Republic thinking they'd broken the Imperial military entirely. Which is still pretty stupid.
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Jun 17, 2023 05:27
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General Battuta posted:Maybe the new canon writers wanted the victory in Return of the Jedi to usher in a period of peace and prosperity instead of the EU's decades of escalating misery and hell, Ah yes, exactly what the multimedia franchise titled “Star Wars” needs: an end to the Star Wars 
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Jun 17, 2023 05:38
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General Battuta posted:Maybe the new canon writers wanted the victory in Return of the Jedi to usher in a period of peace and prosperity instead of the EU's decades of escalating misery and hell, sputtering out in a shower of child molestation and used syringes that's fair but it's sort of a hollow peace isn't it? the alliance didn't win. the new republic was casually subverted by unreformed imperials who simply left and restarted the war once they'd had a generation to catch their breath, and the rump new republic didn't even have the sense to know it was at war until its capital was blown up. between the vong, the bug orgies, daala, etc. things obviously got deeply hosed up in the EU's future but i think the new canon's "peace" is pretty grim stuff to be honest.
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Jun 17, 2023 05:41
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Jazerus posted:unreformed imperials who simply left and restarted the war once they'd had a generation to catch their breath, and the rump new republic didn't even have the sense to know it was at war until its capital was blown up. What’s the time gap between TLJ and RoS? Because TLJ happens immediately after TFA and lasts like a couple days on its own, and RoS seems to be a pretty short jump and that movie’s events seem to span like a day or two, meaning the entire New Star War from opening volley to final defeat takes place over what feels like a week and a half. Then again Star Wars has always had a “problem” with battles and wars being incredibly compressed time frames compared to “real life”. The ground battles of Scarif, Naboo, Geonosis, Hoth, and Endor were each over in like an afternoon, compared to real world battles like the Battle of Stalingrad (5 months), Battle of the Bulge (a month and a half), Operation Overlord (2 months), or the Battle of the Somme (almost 5 months). It’s only in the EU that you get pitched battles that take more than a day.
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Jun 17, 2023 06:02
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Xenomrph posted:What’s the time gap between TLJ and RoS?
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Jun 17, 2023 06:11
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How old was Jaina supposed to be in the Vong stuff and NJO? It felt like they kept trying to go for 'bubbly teen' for probably longer than they should have.
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Jun 17, 2023 10:43
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Dawgstar posted:How old was Jaina supposed to be in the Vong stuff and NJO? It felt like they kept trying to go for 'bubbly teen' for probably longer than they should have. Jacen and Jaina were 15 years old at the start of the NJO, iirc. That'd make them about 18 or 19 at the end of it.
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Jun 17, 2023 10:51
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Xenomrph posted:Ah yes, exactly what the multimedia franchise titled “Star Wars” needs: an end to the Star Wars The year is 12 ABY. A bloodthirsty fan base fuels a status quo of endless war. Bitter YouTube rants perpetuate a culture of infighting. War is constant, victory is illusory, and progress is nonexistent. A gap in a timeline of atrocities is only an invitation to pitch limited series and design new TIE variants. Time is scarce before the next unrelenting crisis begins. For a Star Warrior, war is life, and death is the only true peace. Unless they deepfake you right back in.
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Jun 17, 2023 13:31
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Logic suggests that the years before the After Battle of Yavin timeline should be called Before After Battle of Yavin, or BABY
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Jun 17, 2023 13:33
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TLJ's time frame is bizarre because Rey feels like she's on the island a couple of days, Finn and Rose feel like their whole adventure takes a couple hours, and Poe's mutiny feels like it happened across a couple minutes.
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Jun 17, 2023 13:54
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Dawgstar posted:How old was Jaina supposed to be in the Vong stuff and NJO? It felt like they kept trying to go for 'bubbly teen' for probably longer than they should have. If you want BAD teen dialogue the Ben-Vestara romance poo poo was almost unbearable.
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Jun 17, 2023 21:10
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Dawgstar posted:I seem to recall that, especially if you count that everybody claims the Outer Rim even if nobody actually cared about controlling it, at least around Thrawn's time the New Republic also wasn't super big because the Empire still controlled the Deep Core and whatever other territory. Yeah a lot of Leia's plot in the first Thrawn book is going around to random de facto independent planets and convincing them to join up with the New Republic
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Jun 18, 2023 00:18
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Xenomrph posted:What’s the time gap between TLJ and RoS? Because TLJ happens immediately after TFA and lasts like a couple days on its own, and RoS seems to be a pretty short jump and that movie’s events seem to span like a day or two, meaning the entire New Star War from opening volley to final defeat takes place over what feels like a week and a half.
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Jun 18, 2023 02:33
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It always kind of blows my mind that the entire Yavin battle is done and wrapped up in about 15 minutes (both in-universe and on-screen)
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Jun 18, 2023 03:10
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A lot of naval battles were over in a few days (or less) too. The closest the movies get to a siege is the chase in Last Jedi, and I think it would have worked better as a more traditional siege on the surface of Crait.
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Jun 18, 2023 03:26
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Doctor Spaceman posted:A lot of naval battles were over in a few days (or less) too. Or even just less for more modern stuff. Since Star Wars often draws from World War II, to use two examples from there, at Midway IIRC the main American attacks on the Japanese fleet all occurred within a 90~ minute period (With most of the damage to their carriers happening in like a 10 minute span), and the highly dramatic Battle off Samar is like 3 hours from start to finish.
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Jun 18, 2023 06:02
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I saw this story on Tumblr and don't remember seeing it in any iteration of this thread, so for anyone who like me hadn't heard it before:Tumblr posted:Every who pays a certain amount of attention to Star Wars knows this story already, but I was lucky enough to hear it recounted first-hand last year, so I’m gonna give it yet another retelling. Is it true? I dunno, but it made me chuckle anyway.
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Jun 18, 2023 06:12
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cptn_dr posted:I saw this story on Tumblr and don't remember seeing it in any iteration of this thread, so for anyone who like me hadn't heard it before: I think this same story was brought up on AMCA recently, maybe their episode on Solo? Dunno if it's the same source or a corroborating one. EDIT: Of course it's on Wookieepedia. From an interview with KJA (only the relevant bit but it's actually a pretty good interview, I enjoyed his perspective on the superweapon of the week plots as somebody who worked in a government lab): quote:I was writing Han going into the spice mines of Kessel, where he used to smuggle the spice out. I was told by some politically correct people at LucasFilm, “Spice can’t be a drug because Han was smuggling it… that makes Han a drug dealer! You can’t have one of our main characters be a drug dealer!” I said, “It’s spice, and he’s running Imperial blockades, what did you think it was?” They said, “Well, it’s like a food flavoring!” He’s not gonna be flying through Imperial blockades with a ship full of oregano! [laughs] It was actually a discussion. Re: the length of battles, I think one of the reasons that Star Wars battles tend to be short is that a lot of them are a smaller force engaging a vastly superior one. The first Death Star is maybe the most conspicuous because it's on an actual timer, but it is literally 30 snubfighters against the Empire, it can't really go any slower. The Clone Wars have a lot of battles that seem to take place over days, intermittent skirmishes (Christophsis seems like the Harpers Ferry of Star Wars), and drawn-out sieges, but there you have two armies roughly equal in strength engaging each other. Doctor Spaceman posted:The closest the movies get to a siege is the chase in Last Jedi, and I think it would have worked better as a more traditional siege on the surface of Crait. Yeah, as time goes by I am less willing to forgive that movie for its structural issues, and the "running out of gas" plot point is a real bummer. I think Hux even has a line like, "Well, keep shooting so they know we're still here," which is not something you want the bad guys to say and remain credible. Bringing the conversation all the way back around, it is a bizarre choice to have your movie, which thanks to JJ Abrams has to pick up exactly from where the first one ended, explicitly take place over like 18 hours. Rochallor fucked around with this message at 10:48 on Jun 18, 2023 |
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Jun 18, 2023 10:40
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As egregious as time compression is in TLJ, The Force Awakens has it beat with how absolutely insane it is that Starkiller Base blows up ten minutes after Han is killed and in that time Rey and Finn can have two separate duels with Kylo Ben, run across several miles of snowy forest and get picked up by the Falcon.
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Jun 18, 2023 11:56
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There's a West End Games adventure book called The Politics of Contraband which is based off the line from the Glenn Frey song but, according to legend, it was originally called something else whose name escapes me but something Lucasfilms lost their minds over because it implied that the player characters were criminals - like, you know, smugglers be - and they couldn't have that. A shame they didn't get to talk to George about it.
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Jun 18, 2023 12:36
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On a disappointing note it seems that they’re not currently doing unabridged audiobooks for Essential Legends Collection releases. The Bacta War back in November was the most recent release. Sucks with I, Jedi and Survivor’s Quest rereleasing later in the year. I’d even be happier to buy some of the shittier EU novels on audio but they seem to have paused production for now.
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Jun 19, 2023 20:08
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