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Pope Corky the IX posted:And the wrestlers that did have fathers were raised by people like Grizzly Smith and Fritz von Erich, *the hound voice* the greatest wrestler of all time didn't have a dad???
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Jul 18, 2023 16:18
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16-bit Butt-Head posted:his mom sexually abused him and his step dads regularly beat him vince sr by comparison was a saint that didnt want vince to get into the wrestling business Didn't New Jack have a similarly horrific upbringing? It explains a lot in Vince's case, and would explain for New Jack too.
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Jul 18, 2023 16:50
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YeahTubaMike posted:Didn't New Jack have a similarly horrific upbringing? It explains a lot in Vince's case, and would explain for New Jack too. new jack watched his psycopath dad stab his mom multiple times when he was 5 years old
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Jul 18, 2023 16:59
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I kinda feel like its not the paternal connection that messes them up. Sure it gets them started. However the years of substance abuse, gambling, family issues, women, drugs, women, drugs, new-family issues, get injured, take more drugs, might have something to do with it.
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Jul 18, 2023 17:32
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The "wrestler lifestyle" of the old days definitely brought out the worst in basically everyone who so much as brushed up against it. Current wrestling isn't perfect but the backstage culture is much healthier now than it ever was back then.
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Jul 18, 2023 18:38
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Yeah, older wrestlers will complain "All these young guys do is play video games and work out and shoot YouTube videos backstage" and it's like, yeah, and they're not dropping dead by the age of forty either.
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Jul 18, 2023 18:48
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Pope Corky the IX posted:Yeah, older wrestlers will complain "All these young guys do is play video games and work out and shoot YouTube videos backstage" and it's like, yeah, and they're not dropping dead by the age of forty either. hulk hogan is 69 years old if you drop dead at 40 its a skill issue
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Jul 18, 2023 18:50
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He's also held together with steel rods, plastic joints, fused vertebrae, and pure bullshit.
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Jul 18, 2023 18:56
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He's also drat near the only person from Mania 3 who's still alive
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Jul 18, 2023 20:00
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Defiance Industries posted:He's also drat near the only person from Mania 3 who's still alive Well for Star Trek it's just Takei and Shatner and I'm pretty sure the former is only holding out so he can piss on Shatner's grave.
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Jul 18, 2023 20:09
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For some reason I was sure Takei had died within the last year so thank you for the good news.
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Jul 18, 2023 20:11
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Star Trek was like 20 years before WM3. This is like if everyone in the '87 NBA finals was dead except Magic Johnson. e: Also Koenig is alive, drat you for making me think he was dead
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Jul 18, 2023 20:12
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Defiance Industries posted:He's also drat near the only person from Mania 3 who's still alive i started looking at it and a surprising number are alive actually, more than i expected.
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Jul 18, 2023 20:14
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Defiance Industries posted:Star Trek was like 20 years before WM3. This is like if everyone in the '87 NBA finals was dead except Magic Johnson. Oh yeah I forgot out him. Old Chekhov somehow outlived new Chekhov.
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Jul 18, 2023 20:14
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Michelle Nichols only passed just last year, I missed a few opportunities to meet her at shows and could kick myself. I did get to see Nimoy speak at a con a year or two before he passed though and thank the gods. I wish I remembered more of it but I was too stunned by “holy poo poo it’s Leonard Nimoy.”snoremac posted:Think I've thanked Gavok and Cornwind already but thanks for your write-ups. Wouldn't go out of my way to read about Ultimate Warrior since I know very little about him but your posts have me hooked. The early Undertaker stuff was great too, and Goldust. Echoing this, all this stuff was my childhood and teen years. Interesting though how I got the Papa Shango and Hulk runs confused and swore there was a promo of Warrior looking in the mirror with the black goo running down his face, like Shango had gotten into his head and was corrupting Warrior’s reflection. I’d referred to this earlier, I thought Warrior had a hairpiece that was pumping the goo through and on his face!
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Jul 18, 2023 20:22
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David D. Davidson posted:Oh yeah I forgot out him. Koenig must never have owned a Jeep
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Jul 18, 2023 20:25
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It's Wrestlemania VII that has the depressing number of dead wrestlers if I'm not mistaken.
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Jul 18, 2023 20:29
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Pope Corky the IX posted:It's Wrestlemania VII that has the depressing number of dead wrestlers if I'm not mistaken. I'm curious now. Living Wrestlers Shawn Michaels Marty Jannetty Barbarian Haku Warlord Jerry Sags Brian Knobbs Bret Hart Jake Roberts Rick Martel Undertaker (yes, I know) Genichiro Tenryu Smash Greg Valentine Paul Roma Virgil Ted Dibiase The Mountie Tito Santana Hulk Hogan Sgt. Slaughter Living Non-Wrestlers Slick Jimmy Hart General Adnan Jim Duggan Sean Mooney Marla Maples Earl Hebner Danny Davis Mike Chioda Paul Maguire Bushwhacker Luke Dead Wrestlers Texas Tornado Dino Bravo British Bulldog Jim Neidhart Jimmy Snuka Ultimate Warrior Randy Savage Koji Kitao Crush Big Boss Man Mr. Perfect Earthquake Hawk Animal Hercules Dead Non-Wrestlers Bobby Heenan Paul Bearer Sherri Martel Elizabeth Mr. Fuji Andre the Giant Roddy Piper Gorilla Monsoon Lord Alfred Hayes Regis Philbin Gene Okerlund Alex Trebek Howard Finkel Joey Marella Dave Hebner George Steinbrenner Bushwhacker Butch That's a total of 32 living and 32 dead. 21 to 11 if you're going with just those who wrestled that show.
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Jul 18, 2023 21:06
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Pope Corky the IX posted:It's Wrestlemania VII that has the depressing number of dead wrestlers if I'm not mistaken. Ecw events are also very grim when it comes this, many of them gone before reaching their 40s
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Jul 18, 2023 21:30
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Gavok posted:Living Non-Wrestlers Now that's just rude, Gavok. (I assume that they're listed there in that they appeared on the show in some way but didn't wrestle, but it can be read as you thinking that they were so utterly terrible as performers that you put them in the non wrestler column.)
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Jul 19, 2023 00:09
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Jim Duggan? Alive?? Huh. How about that?
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Jul 19, 2023 00:39
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Cornwind Evil posted:Now that's just rude, Gavok. They appeared in a segment so bad that it was never on any of the DVDs or the streaming version of WrestleMania VII. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb9JZxTHOhU It's less than five minutes, but it feels like 20. Also, I guess I forgot to include Vince on the list of non-wrestling talent. So the living have one point over the dead. For now.
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Jul 19, 2023 01:52
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Cornwind Evil posted:It has been noted by some observations that one of many cult leaders' secondary, possibly subconscious goals is to turn everyone in their cult, or at least their inner circles, into clones of themselves. David Berg and the Children of God come to mind. I was thinking Small Gods and how the villain's noted to have that affect on people around him, even those opposing him, making them more like himself. With some fun implication the main protagonist isn't immune- but rather he retains his moral centre and instead picks up the attributes most people don't, like vision, leadership and insight. Bonzo posted:I kinda feel like its not the paternal connection that messes them up. Sure it gets them started. However the years of substance abuse, gambling, family issues, women, drugs, women, drugs, new-family issues, get injured, take more drugs, might have something to do with it. Fair, especially with how much of that is just plain tied in with toxic masculinity and rich and famous lifestyle expectations of that generation. But I think Vince's whole thing of never really turning the gimmick off until it takes over his life has probably been a considerable influence on these loud muscle men apparently getting the same problem, which becomes even moreso when you forgot you're only supposed to pretend to have brutal blood feuds.
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Jul 19, 2023 07:37
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Fair, especially with how much of that is just plain tied in with toxic masculinity and rich and famous lifestyle expectations of that generation. But I think Vince's whole thing of never really turning the gimmick off until it takes over his life has probably been a considerable influence on these loud muscle men apparently getting the same problem, which becomes even moreso when you forgot you're only supposed to pretend to have brutal blood feuds. There is also the business aspect where wrestling "was" really loving carny and insane behind the scenes too, promotions snatching stars from each other, wrestlers protecting their image or status every way they could, even if they had to break someone's leg or shoot them or hit them with a squeegee. How do you remain normal in the face of a boss who just beat up a rival promotor with a sock filled with pennies?
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Jul 19, 2023 08:45
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THE DIMINISHING RETURNS OF THE ULTIMATE WARRIOR: PART 8 With his wrestling career finished and nobody else wanting to deal with him (or having the deep pockets to get his attention), Warrior did the unthinkable: he cut off those luscious locks. Horrible. The man had a great hairline and he chopped it down. Also, he started a website based around motivational blogging, answering fan mail, and... problematic ranting. A lot of this ranting was political stuff as Warrior realized he could use his fame of being a half-naked space viking and become a paid speaker. And so, Warrior shook the ropes and ran top speed into being a conservative nutjob. This led to a speaking engagement that went off the rails and became featured at this very site. Now, initially, I was going to just gloss over it and mention that he said some bigoted poo poo that got people’s attention and then move on. Well, then I got an intriguing little private message. A goon who chooses to remain anonymous (for reasons they will explain), was in attendance when Warrior went to speak at the University of Connecticut. As this goon was lurking this thread, they wanted to explain a more in-depth take on what happened that fateful day with some context for the straw that broke the camel’s back. quote:Warrior's meltdown at UConn in 2005 has become somewhat famous on Something Awful because of legal threats from his camp in the wake of his very public freakout. His complaints went nowhere because he had no rights to the video as the school's public access station had recorded the event and to this day every YouTube video of his speech is from that recording. I'm trying to write this so the reader doesn't have to go spend an hour watching Jim Hellwig (nee Warrior) spew out Iraq War era conservative talking points, but if you do go and find a video skip to about the 30 minute mark to get to the parts people recall nearly 20 years later. Britta from Community would be so proud. This situation led to a brief internet feud between Warrior and Lowtax, which is one of those kaiju battles Ken Watanabe watches from a distance. The shocking part is that David Lewis, the representative who threatened to sue Something Awful for claiming Warrior was racist, was NOT Warrior himself but an actual person. Go figure! Warrior’s ego would take another hit around that time. WWE was planning on putting together a DVD set that would feature classic Warrior matches and a documentary on his career. They asked Warrior if he would like to be involved with this. He promptly told them to gently caress off. So they rolled up their sleeves and cracked their knuckles. Out came the Self-Destruction of the Ultimate Warrior. It was an absolute hit job. While it did discuss why people enjoyed his style (Hogan’s description of “a good guy character with a maniacal edge” always stuck with me), it was mostly wrestling folk talking poo poo about how he was a talentless goofball who lucked himself into getting a cup of coffee on the top of the ladder. Even those who enjoyed his work were focused on how ridiculous he was. One of the absolute highlights was Chris Jericho doing a perfect impression of what kind of batshit promo Warrior would pull out of his rear end, followed by the line, “And I was like, ‘I don’t know what that means but it sounded cool, so YAY!’”  It’s a great documentary to watch if you can find it, as it’s mean and petty as hell, but he absolutely had it coming. Warrior was not happy and tried to sue to have it taken off shelves. It did not work. Another guy who took notice of the documentary was Bret Hart. Bret had plenty of reason to separate himself from WWE due to how they hosed him over and killed his brother. But then one day, at a doctor’s office, he met a kid who only recognized him because he was still being featured in WWE video games. When WWE came calling about a Bret Hart DVD set, the Hitman knew that his legacy was in their hands and he had to make nice or else they were going to call him an overrated, self-serious crybaby who everyone hated working with. Funny enough, Roddy Piper did not get the memo that Bret was involved with the project and went into full character assassination mode when doing his segments. Don’t feel too bad for Warrior in all of this. He was busy going on hateful internet rants on practically everyone. On one hand, I can at least understand him taking pleasure in the news that Bobby Heenan was suffering from cancer. The two of them had a lengthy history and genuinely hated each other, even if it appears that Warrior started it. On the other hand, Warrior chalking up Heath Ledger’s tragic death to karma for being in the gay cowboy movie was just hosed. Not to mention his unnerving take on Hurricane Katrina’s victims. Despite his bitterness, Warrior did carve out some happiness in these later days. He married a woman named Dana and had two daughters. As they got older, he felt that it wasn't right that they never got to see him wrestle. It was time for one last match.
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Jul 20, 2023 05:43
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Somehow you know someone's hitting rock bottom when Something Awful manages to get involved. The college speaking gigs is interesting. I feel like a shitload of the late tumblr-era woke college boogeyman comes from the rise of easily available and then omnipresent phone cameras, and all those lovely conservative speakers and other burnt out boomers suddenly can't have a situational persona anymore, because every remotely public space can now be broadcast to the world indelibly. And similar to how kayfabe was probably harder to keep when there's no longer such a thing as a non-broadcast show, suddenly you can't have a safe space to spew your horrible bullshit without having it define your public persona. And for a lot of people, that's not something they can really get their heads around easily, especially when they've melted their brains in locker room bullshit all their lives.
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Jul 20, 2023 06:01
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As I said myself in one of my effortposts, in the end, it was Warrioring that didn't make the world work.
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Jul 20, 2023 07:21
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The saga around the legal battle with Warrior's lawyer is what brought me to SA's frontpage. Thank/gently caress you, Warrior!
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Jul 20, 2023 07:44
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Oh god no https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggnyJdyF8AQ
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Jul 20, 2023 08:42
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Has anyone read this book by this guy? TW: Dr. D says a whole bunch of homophobic poo poo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wqK_HD0rps edit: Paul Heyman calls in at 6:00! edit 2: This actually gets loving crazy as Thunderbolt Patterson and Captain Lou show up. Animal-Mother fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Jul 21, 2023 |
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Jul 21, 2023 02:05
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Lmao it really is just a 30 minute video of him working out with nothing else.
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Jul 21, 2023 02:55
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Grendels Dad posted:The saga around the legal battle with Warrior's lawyer is what brought me to SA's frontpage. It was an article about Carnosaur for me.
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Jul 21, 2023 03:55
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vinces interactions with warrior is one of the few times where vince comes off as the sane and reasonable person lmao
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Jul 21, 2023 04:00
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16-bit Butt-Head posted:his mom sexually abused him and his step dads regularly beat him vince sr by comparison was a saint that didnt want vince to get into the wrestling business Vince sr left because Vinnie gave off bad vibes.
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Jul 21, 2023 12:34
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Gavok posted:Funny enough, Roddy Piper did not get the memo that Bret was involved with the project and went into full character assassination mode when doing his segments. Did he? Been a good few years since I've watched it, will have to look out for it. Surprising considering Roddy and Bret were close - he was one of the few people who went to see Bret in the hospital after his stroke.
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Jul 21, 2023 20:07
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THE DIMINISHING RETURNS OF THE ULTIMATE WARRIOR: FINALE It had been ten years since Warrior and Hogan had made fools of themselves at Halloween Havoc 1998. I don't know the details and what the payday was, but Warrior was offered a deal to come out of retirement for one last match. Being in great physical shape for 49, having two young daughters who had never seen him perform in the ring, and probably wanting to go out on a higher note than that Hogan match, Warrior went with it. It would not take place in WWE, TNA, or even Japan, but in Nu-Wrestling Evolution in Spain. Warrior would be competing for its championship against Orlando Jordan. Jordan was a former WWE name from the mid-00s who spent much of his time as JBL's henchman. He was... fine. He was another tall, muscular, mediocre guy in an era that was filled with them. Jordan was an interesting choice for an opponent as he's bisexual and therefore not capable of making the world work. Though Jordan was problematic in his own right as there were some allegations about how young he liked his boyfriends when in WWE. I looked up various takes on Warrior vs. Jordan on the internet. The Warrior fans treat it as a "you still got it!" situation. Other folks laugh at it for being garbage. On Cagematch, the IMDB of wrestling, it has a 0.5 out of 10 ranking from users. I'll admit that I watched the match for the first time just for this write-up. And well, this is one of those matches where you have to grade it on a curve. Not just for being a Warrior match but for being a wrestler's final match. Final matches in wrestling are a hell of a thing. You have some outliers out there. Steve Austin's body broke down during his prime and forced him into retirement, but 17 years later, he was healthy enough to do one last brawl-based match at WrestleMania and make it a good one. Before Triple H's body completely crapped out on him, he was able to say goodbye with a house show tag match featuring three former NXT names. Undertaker's finale was a pre-taped cinematic match, which is cheating, but at least allowed him to go out on a match he felt proud of. The Rock just had a joke 4-second match, though Vince is holding out hope on one day getting Rock vs. Roman. Otherwise, the truth is that seeing the 49-year-old Warrior wrestle for 17 minutes in Spain is far less depressing to watch than the final matches for Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage, Andre the Giant, Bret Hart, Ric Flair, and even Shawn Michaels. The situation reminds me of that bit in Rocky Balboa where the trainer explains to him that because of his old age, he has none of his mobility left and they have to work around that. Hell, Warrior apparently messed up his knee while training, which is apparent when he does a limping run to the ring. Jordan took Warrior and carried him into something that isn’t great or exciting, but at least competent. It was very different from your usual fare as Warrior was doing hammerlocks and reversals and stuff early on. Warrior was breathing heavily throughout the whole thing, but Jordan was able to put them in situations that allowed Warrior to take a break when need be. Warrior even pulled off a top-rope crossbody, which is pretty impressive. The match ended with Warrior hitting a jumping shoulderblock and pinning Jordan to become the new NWE Champion. Afterwards, he cut a promo where he threw respect at Orlando Jordan and vacated the title so they could hold a tournament to crown a new champ. That ended up being Mr. Anderson (Anderson) of all people. Fast-forward five years. Something rather strange about the mid-2010s is how important the people at 2K Games were when it comes to shaping wrestling history. There have been three instances where their decision to do pre-order bonuses for WWE 2K## would have HUGE ramifications on the entire business. Certain wrestlers who wanted nothing to do with the company at least had merch agreements that allowed them to be in the WWE 2K series (in Warrior’s case, he was pretty pissed off when he heard about the concept of create-a-wrestler and probably figured he should at least make money off of being in a WWE game). For Ultimate Warrior in 2013, Sting in 2014, and Goldberg in 2016, these pre-order bonus campaigns would lead to them getting involved with WWE and changing the course of things to come. I won’t get into Sting and Goldberg’s stories right here, but for Warrior, the commercial had him cutting a promo and causing havoc in the WWE offices. It was surreal to see him associated with the company after so many years, but he definitely seemed into it. Triple H’s rule over WWE was starting to take shape and it was apparent that what he truly wanted was for everything in wrestling to fall under WWE’s umbrella. That meant making good with everyone that Vince had alienated over the years, like Bruno Sammartino and Mr. T. That meant getting on the phone and offering Warrior a spot as the head of the WWE Hall of Fame Class of 2014. Warrior accepted the invitation and chilled out about Vince online. He did have one demand, though. If he was going to take part in this event, then they had to do a new Ultimate Warrior documentary. One that “told the truth.” So when Warrior and his family went down to New Orleans in 2014, a camera crew followed him around. During this weekend, Warrior went and made amends with various people, including Vince and Jake Roberts. Triple H specifically went out of his way to tell Hulk Hogan to keep his distance from Warrior, as he was afraid of their history derailing everything, but Warrior and Hogan did eventually meet up and buried any beef the two had. The funniest thing about this documentary was that there was a moment taking place in one of the WWE offices with a Royal Rumble 2014 framed poster in the background. As this was only a couple months after CM Punk got pissed off and walked out on the company, somebody had placed a yellow sticky note over Punk’s face on the poster. During WrestleMania weekend, Saturday night was all about the Hall of Fame ceremony. Warrior was inducted along with Jake Roberts, Lita, Paul Bearer, Carlos Colon Sr., Razor Ramon, and Mr. T. Mr. T’s speech was RIDICULOUS as he went on for about 25 minutes, had nothing to do with wrestling in any way, and apparently he said the word “mother” 73 times. It went on for so long that they had to send out Kane (who was inducting the late Paul Bearer) to tell him to wrap it up while T awkwardly kept repeating, “I’m sorry.” Warrior’s speech was also incredibly long, but at least he talked about stuff people cared about. When fans chanted, “ONE MORE MATCH!” he said that it wasn’t happening. There were scant rumors that WWE was playing with the idea of doing Warrior vs. Ryback (who was like Warrior mixed with Goldberg) at WrestleMania, but that fell through. Probably for the best for so many reasons. Have I done on of these about Ryback yet? I really should do one of these about Ryback. Other than how hurt he was by that Self-Destruction DVD, Warrior did take a moment to discuss one of the unsung WWE employees who had been there for years and died back in 2002. Warrior thought that maybe they should have an award for people like that. He made a quick appearance at WrestleMania on Sunday. On Monday, he came out on Raw to cut a rather thoughtful promo while wearing a cardboard mask of the Warrior paint. He definitely seemed winded and red. In fact, people would later say that he looked like that all weekend. Considering his speech had him discussing “breathing his last breath,” there was a disturbing sense of finality to it. And then, the very next day, Warrior collapsed when getting out of a car. He died shortly after at 54. WWE honored him as a full-on legend. It was like a PR redemption story. Hell, Vince probably felt relieved as the knowledge that Andre the Giant died hating him is something that haunts him to this day. Warrior showed up, made nice, got celebrated, and keeled over. So they released the DVD. They gave Warrior's wife a job as a writer. Then they introduced the Warrior Award at the next Hall of Fame, but in a way that completely ignored what he wanted. It was not about unsung employees in WWE, but PR about a sick kid who really liked Daniel Bryan or the loving Susan G. Komen Foundation. It was gross and disrespectful, but there was something fitting about twisting Warrior’s wishes and using it to focus on the same kind of ill child that Warrior once ignored. The cosmic humor of it all really came into play a year later when Hogan was caught on a sex tape, dropping the n-bomb and talking up how racist he secretly is. WWE went into full panic mode, scrubbing Hogan from their website, never airing footage of him, and having to completely rewrite several animated projects (ie. Camp WWE and a Scooby Doo/WWE crossover). Around this time, WWE was rereleasing the crappy old NES Game WrestleMania: Steel Cage Challenge as part of one of those plug-into-the-TV controllers. Guess which wrestler WWE chose to replace the disgraced bigot. Snarl.
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Jul 22, 2023 05:10
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As Bart Simpson once said, the ironing is delicious.
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Jul 22, 2023 05:50
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And of course it's just a side note that Mr T was there and went on a nearly half hour ramble until he had to be asked to stop.
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Jul 22, 2023 06:28
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Whoa I didn’t know WWE games mattered that much. Is that like the one aspect of the business that results in money going to retired talent? From all the sad go fund mes mentioned on wrestler Wikipedia pages had assumed Vince didn’t give anyone a penny once they left. Interesting how Hogan had to be scrubbed, but is he back in good odor again because a prince offered a dumptruck of money for him to show up at Crown Jewel?
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Jul 22, 2023 06:50
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Ghost Leviathan posted:And of course it's just a side note that Mr T was there and went on a nearly half hour ramble until he had to be asked to stop. The funniest thing Mr. T ever did was wear a referee shirt for no reason for his match with Kevin Sullivan at Starrcade ‘94 and then get hopelessly stuck in it for two straight minutes when Sullivan tried to pull it over his head.
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Jul 22, 2023 11:22
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