Televisions Thread: Almost cheaper to build your house out of TVs than wood

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Ryuga Death: May 14, 2008; There's gotta be one more bell to crack; Fun Shoe

Hi again, sorry if this isn't the correct thread, but this seemed maybe more fitting than the physical media thread in CD. What's a recommended 4k bluray player?

I have a Sony UBP X700 and while it's worked for the most part, there's been a few movies here and there that it seems unable to play and I'm not sure if it's a disc or player issue, especially since the disc looks fine to my naked eye but I don't know how much that is worth.

# ? Aug 10, 2023 01:04

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# ? May 13, 2024 01:48

codo27: Apr 21, 2008

Samsung isn't a no go anymore but likewise with LG, I think you should only consider their OLED options. Failing that, its TCL/Hisense. Save them some money.

Man, what the hell happened to Rtings? Nothing good can last forever.

# ? Aug 10, 2023 01:21

Animale: Sep 30, 2009

Tatsuta Age posted:

parents fuckin love Samsung the frames in my experience

They're thin and you can add specific colored bezels to match your house or style. Plus the whole it's art thing is cool if you really like art or decor. The only reason I didn't get one was because I'm picky with the picturevand went with an A95K instead.

This was on one of the AD sites today and it looks really good.

Ryuga Death posted:

Hi again, sorry if this isn't the correct thread, but this seemed maybe more fitting than the physical media thread in CD. What's a recommended 4k bluray player?

Panasonic seems to be the correct answer, the issue is that their player with Dolby Vision is $500. And the upgraded version with a better DAC is $1k.
https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-4k-blu-ray-player/

# ? Aug 10, 2023 02:05

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

poemdexter posted:

My parents are looking for a new TV around 65" and around 1600 dollars and either Samsung or LG if possible (not sure why but didn't press them on it). They are currently looking at Samsung - 65� Class S95B OLED 4K Smart Tizen TV - https://www.bestbuy.com/site/samsung-65-class-s95b-oled-4k-smart-tizen-tv/6502215.p?skuId=6502215. I haven't looked at TV's in years so I ask you humble thread peeps: is there any other TV in that range that is a better bang for buck or should they pull the trigger on this one?

Samsung S95B is actually a solid choice. It's a QD-OLED panel and basically universally rated as the 2nd best TV model of 2022 (#1 being the only other QD-OLED panel that came out last year, a Sony that was like double the price). QD-OLED means it gets noticeably brighter than other OLED screens (which is a good thing because one of the downsides of OLED has been its lower brightness compared to LCD), so if your parents are okay with that price, then sure let them go for it. Downsides to the model are 1) No Dolby Vision and 2) more likely to develop burn-in more quickly (this was tested by RTings and a couple other places I think, and may be an issue with QD-OLED in general).

# ? Aug 10, 2023 02:53

The Perfect Element: Dec 5, 2005; "This is a bit of a... a poof song"

Can someone explain what Dolby Vision actually does, and why not having it is a disadvantage? For context, our TV is just used for gaming and streaming (just Netflix, Disney and prime).

I ask cos I'm gonna pick up an oled soon, and the Samsung one is currently top of my list.

# ? Aug 10, 2023 09:06

morestuff: Aug 2, 2008; You can't stop what's coming

It basically takes over your TVs picture settings to give you the best image for that particular film

# ? Aug 10, 2023 14:51

bull3964: Nov 18, 2000; DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.

That's one part of DV, but not necessarily the main part.

This is all oversimplified (part because it's over my head, part to make it brief).

There are two different types of HDR, static and dynamic. HDR10 is an example of static HDR, HDR10+ and DV are dynamic.

The dynamic and static refer to the HDR metadata.

You have a camera that captures in a wide dynamic range. That range has to be mapped to the master and given brightness values which is then tone mapped to the TV in question.

So (all made up numbers), you have an HDR capture with a brightness range of 1,000,000 that may be mastered at 10,000 nits that's then tone mapped in a TV that's capable of 1000 nits. When the master is created, the dynamic range of the camera has to be mapped within the range of the master. So, you use quantization 0-999 is mapped to 1, 1000-1999 is mapped to 2, and so on.

With static HDR, that means that mapping is constant for the whole movie.

Now, what happens if you are in a dimly lit cave for a scene? You have a ton of headroom mapped to values that aren't in that scene. You basically lose brightness accuracy by using too coarse of a quantization in the darkest values because you don't need to represent the brightest values at all. The same can happen in reverse, you are in a super bright scene. There's nothing below a minimum brightness value in that scene, so everything you have mapped below that cutoff is wasted and can't be used to create further nuance in the scene.

That's where dynamic metadata comes in. The quantization is adjusted on a per scene basis to make the best use out of the available dynamic range of the scene. You don't have anything above a certain brightness value in a scene? Then set a lower max value and use the full range to show what you do have, ditto in the case of a bright scene.

It basically allows the output of the master to adapt to give the best dynamic range resolution for each scene in question.

Now, Dolby Vision takes it one step further with tone mapping. Each device has a profile that defines the capability of the device so the dynamic metadata can be adapted specifically for the display capabilities that it's being shown on. Your panel clips above 768 nits? Then the dynamic range is adjusted such that the brightness never exceeds that. You do lose overall dynamic range resolution, but you don't get clipping.

Side tangent, that's one of the advantages of the $500 Panasonic UB820 UHD blu-ray player.

HDR10 stuff can be mastered to exceed your display's capabilities and you are at the mercy of the tone mapping of your display to ensure that stuff doesn't get clipped or crushed (on either end of the spectrum). That tone mapping can be really good with high nit displays or newer TVs with better processing, but it can also be not that great as well. The UB820 has the ability to set a display type (OLED, medium brightness TV, projector, and so on) and the player will apply its own advanced tone mapping to HDR10 content before the TV has a crack at it. So, if you have a movie mastered to 10,000 nits and there are a lot of highlights that are way beyond the ability of your 800 nit OLED, the player can reign some of that in before the TV tries to tone map, potentially increasing the quality of the HDR by eliminating clipping or increasing color resolution on the brightest highlights.

# ? Aug 10, 2023 16:57

bitprophet: Jul 22, 2004; Taco Defender

codo27 posted:

Man, what the hell happened to Rtings? Nothing good can last forever.

I'm looking at $topic for the first time in years and RTings seemed like a thorough resource (maybe a bit OLED-heavy). How are they bad now?

Speaking of! our 49" Sony X900F kicked the bucket after only ~3-4 years :argh:

I just dug around with the following in mind:

functions well in 100% dumb mode
50-55"
4+ HDMI ports
mostly-dim environment
don't care much about viewing angle
games and mostly 720-1080p video (tv, film)
LED/QLED; OLED seems like more money for the privilege of worrying about game-driven burn-in
LG/Sony, maybe Samsung
<=$1000 (if we're leaning away from OLED, then four figures seems a lot for an LED) -- but we can afford whatever, so I'm starting to rethink this.

Narrowed by above + "sold by Best Buy" + "has moderate review signal", I arrived at: the LG 55 QNED 80 UQA ($650), and the Sony XR 55 X90K ($900). Reading more, it sounds like the LG's edge-lighting and subpar contrast/dimming make it not great for dim rooms; while the Sony is generally well liked and lacks those issues (eg it's got a full-array backlight).

Questions!

Thoughts on those models? Are there others that fit my list I'm overlooking?
Is burn-in on OLEDs a concern anymore or is that old news?
Are there any brands/models/OSes to avoid if we're going full dumb? I've seen conflicting reports about TVs literally refusing to work unless you give them net access, having a lot of UI lag because they're trying to phone home, poo poo like that. Conversely, GoogleTV seems widely used now & has a "basic TV mode", which sounds nice.
Best Buy's protection plans seem well thought of; yes/no? Really want to avoid another "early death" since independent repair seems like not a thing anymore.

# ? Aug 10, 2023 23:05

Matt Zerella: Oct 7, 2002; Norris'es are back baby. It's good again. Awoouu (fox Howl)

If you want to see crazy use of DV on OLED, the fire rifle scene in John Wick 4 looked insane on my C1.

# ? Aug 10, 2023 23:08

Cugel the Clever: Apr 5, 2009; I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

bitprophet posted:

Speaking of! our 49" Sony X900F kicked the bucket after only ~3-4 years

Have you tried taking the back off and re-seating the cables?

It sounds stupid, but it's worked for me a number of times :shrug:

. Think the thing just didn't manage well in the heat before I had AC.

# ? Aug 10, 2023 23:37

bull3964: Nov 18, 2000; DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.

My X900E had the internal power supply board die like 2 years in, but it was stupid easy to replace and only cost like $80. If it's not damage to the panel or backlight, it's probably cost effective and easy to self repair.

# ? Aug 11, 2023 00:17

wash bucket: Feb 21, 2006

codo27 posted:

Man, what the hell happened to Rtings? Nothing good can last forever.

What's the problem?

# ? Aug 11, 2023 00:23

bitprophet: Jul 22, 2004; Taco Defender

Cugel the Clever posted:

Have you tried taking the back off and re-seating the cables?

It sounds stupid, but it's worked for me a number of times . Think the thing just didn't manage well in the heat before I had AC.

bull3964 posted:

My X900E had the internal power supply board die like 2 years in, but it was stupid easy to replace and only cost like $80. If it's not damage to the panel or backlight, it's probably cost effective and easy to self repair.

Hm, I kind of assumed the guts of a TV were more like that of a laptop (finicky/bespoke/everything kinda soldered together = you really have to know what you're doing) vs a PC (reasonably user-serviceable) but if it's /that/ simple, I may give it a shot - thanks!

(FWIW the problem is that the picture's gone but everything else, including the backlight, is working; and a full power drain and factory reset didn't do jack either. so it does feel like one of the less critical components croaked.)

bitprophet fucked around with this message at 00:36 on Aug 11, 2023

# ? Aug 11, 2023 00:34

bull3964: Nov 18, 2000; DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.

It's all separate boards connected by ribbon cables. Some are pricier than others, but it's mostly barren inside these TVs.

# ? Aug 11, 2023 00:37

bitprophet: Jul 22, 2004; Taco Defender

bull3964 posted:

It's all separate boards connected by ribbon cables. Some are pricier than others, but it's mostly barren inside these TVs.

So I see! Alas, reseating the cables we were able to even unseat (a few of them were in real tight) hasn't made a difference. So my original questions stand

# ? Aug 11, 2023 01:35

Corb3t: Jun 7, 2003

bitprophet posted:

So I see! Alas, reseating the cables we were able to even unseat (a few of them were in real tight) hasn't made a difference. So my original questions stand

$999 65� Sony from Costco with their free extended warranty when you use their credit card (7 years total I think)

Worth getting a membership for the cash back and purchase alone.

Corb3t fucked around with this message at 02:44 on Aug 11, 2023

# ? Aug 11, 2023 02:39

Mister Facetious: Apr 21, 2007; I think I died and woke up in L.A.,
I don't know how I wound up in this place...

codo27 posted:

Man, what the hell happened to Rtings? Nothing good can last forever.

Do you mean the obfuscation of the device lists (which aren't too hard to find once you know how), or how you have a limited number of reviews you can view before they block certain info on them?

# ? Aug 11, 2023 07:05

The Perfect Element: Dec 5, 2005; "This is a bit of a... a poof song"

bull3964 posted:

That's one part of DV, but not necessarily the main part.

This is all oversimplified (part because it's over my head, part to make it brief).

There are two different types of HDR, static and dynamic. HDR10 is an example of static HDR, HDR10+ and DV are dynamic.

The dynamic and static refer to the HDR metadata.

You have a camera that captures in a wide dynamic range. That range has to be mapped to the master and given brightness values which is then tone mapped to the TV in question.

So (all made up numbers), you have an HDR capture with a brightness range of 1,000,000 that may be mastered at 10,000 nits that's then tone mapped in a TV that's capable of 1000 nits. When the master is created, the dynamic range of the camera has to be mapped within the range of the master. So, you use quantization 0-999 is mapped to 1, 1000-1999 is mapped to 2, and so on.

With static HDR, that means that mapping is constant for the whole movie.

Now, what happens if you are in a dimly lit cave for a scene? You have a ton of headroom mapped to values that aren't in that scene. You basically lose brightness accuracy by using too coarse of a quantization in the darkest values because you don't need to represent the brightest values at all. The same can happen in reverse, you are in a super bright scene. There's nothing below a minimum brightness value in that scene, so everything you have mapped below that cutoff is wasted and can't be used to create further nuance in the scene.

That's where dynamic metadata comes in. The quantization is adjusted on a per scene basis to make the best use out of the available dynamic range of the scene. You don't have anything above a certain brightness value in a scene? Then set a lower max value and use the full range to show what you do have, ditto in the case of a bright scene.

It basically allows the output of the master to adapt to give the best dynamic range resolution for each scene in question.

Now, Dolby Vision takes it one step further with tone mapping. Each device has a profile that defines the capability of the device so the dynamic metadata can be adapted specifically for the display capabilities that it's being shown on. Your panel clips above 768 nits? Then the dynamic range is adjusted such that the brightness never exceeds that. You do lose overall dynamic range resolution, but you don't get clipping.

Side tangent, that's one of the advantages of the $500 Panasonic UB820 UHD blu-ray player.

HDR10 stuff can be mastered to exceed your display's capabilities and you are at the mercy of the tone mapping of your display to ensure that stuff doesn't get clipped or crushed (on either end of the spectrum). That tone mapping can be really good with high nit displays or newer TVs with better processing, but it can also be not that great as well. The UB820 has the ability to set a display type (OLED, medium brightness TV, projector, and so on) and the player will apply its own advanced tone mapping to HDR10 content before the TV has a crack at it. So, if you have a movie mastered to 10,000 nits and there are a lot of highlights that are way beyond the ability of your 800 nit OLED, the player can reign some of that in before the TV tries to tone map, potentially increasing the quality of the HDR by eliminating clipping or increasing color resolution on the brightest highlights.

That's super helpful thanks. Although still not sure it outweighs the extra brightness that the Samsung provides compared to the LG sets. Is there much Dolby vision content being streamed by Netflix, prime or Disney? Looks like Sony doesn't support it for playstation 5, so not much of a concern there.

# ? Aug 11, 2023 10:50

codo27: Apr 21, 2008

Mister Facetious posted:

Do you mean the obfuscation of the device lists (which aren't too hard to find once you know how), or how you have a limited number of reviews you can view before they block certain info on them?

I went looking at soundbars (for my parents, dont judge me) and most of the review specifics were all paywalled.

# ? Aug 11, 2023 11:57

Mister Facetious: Apr 21, 2007; I think I died and woke up in L.A.,
I don't know how I wound up in this place...

codo27 posted:

I went looking at soundbars (for my parents, dont judge me) and most of the review specifics were all paywalled.

I'm not the goon that's militant against soundbars

# ? Aug 11, 2023 18:42

bull3964: Nov 18, 2000; DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.

Yeah, rtings paywalled everything that wasn't strictly TV, monitor, and headphone reviews.

It's really dumb. You aren't shopping for these things that often that you should spend $10 /month on a subscription and it makes sourcing their site to give recommendations to other people super hard.

I understand they buy their own poo poo and these reviews are time consuming, but that's just too aggressive.

# ? Aug 11, 2023 18:50

bull3964: Nov 18, 2000; DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.

The Perfect Element posted:

That's super helpful thanks. Although still not sure it outweighs the extra brightness that the Samsung provides compared to the LG sets. Is there much Dolby vision content being streamed by Netflix, prime or Disney? Looks like Sony doesn't support it for playstation 5, so not much of a concern there.

Most of the stuff that's in HDR on Netflix and all the stuff that's in HDR on DIsney+ is Dolby Vision (Amazon is a mixed bag and sometimes things disappear for no reason.) AppleTV+ originals are all Dolby Vision. Peacock is mostly DV on their HDR content, but it can vary. Max supports DV.

Disney especially is notorious for having DV on the stuff on their streaming site while all their disc releases have been HDR10 only. The HDR grades on Disney+ streaming have actually been better than physical releases due to it.

DV support doesn't mean HDR10 isn't available though, it is. Anything that's in DV also supports HDR10, it's just that you'll have better image quality with DV.

# ? Aug 11, 2023 18:53

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

The Perfect Element posted:

That's super helpful thanks. Although still not sure it outweighs the extra brightness that the Samsung provides compared to the LG sets. Is there much Dolby vision content being streamed by Netflix, prime or Disney? Looks like Sony doesn't support it for playstation 5, so not much of a concern there.

It's all personal preference, and I don't know you, but probably your parents (and most people) care more about brightness than the difference between HDR10 and DV.

# ? Aug 11, 2023 19:09

Blurb3947: Sep 30, 2022

Definitely a YMMV thing but I picked up the LG 55UQ80 for $150 at Costco. Their site says it's $350 so I'm not sure why it was so cheap.

RTings rates it at 6.8 overall. This one has the IPS screen so viewing angles are great.

This is my first 4k TV and while I didn't want to go this big I really couldn't pass up this pricing mistake.

# ? Aug 12, 2023 20:19

Arken_ca: Sep 14, 2011

PC gaming on a TV with VRR it was recommended to cap the framerate just below the max, right?

Was it 3 or 4? And should you use in game controls if available or a third party program to cap frames?

Using Nvidia card.

# ? Aug 12, 2023 21:35

Enderzero: Jun 19, 2001; The snowflake button makes it
cold cold cold
Set temperature makes it
hold hold hold

Arken_ca posted:

PC gaming on a TV with VRR it was recommended to cap the framerate just below the max, right?

Was it 3 or 4? And should you use in game controls if available or a third party program to cap frames?

Using Nvidia card.

For 120fps tv I do 117. I use riva tuner something something - search rtss, or just msi afterburner since it comes with it.

# ? Aug 12, 2023 22:30

GreenNight: Feb 19, 2006; Turning the light on the darkest places, you and I know we got to face this now. We got to face this now.

98" TLC for $4k and free shipping.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09NLJ8ZZS

# ? Aug 21, 2023 19:46

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

GreenNight posted:

98" TLC for $4k and free shipping.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09NLJ8ZZS

As someone with a 77 that barely fits on the wall in my dedicated theater room, I can say that's an absurdly large TV goddamn.

# ? Aug 21, 2023 20:54

EL BROMANCE: Jun 10, 2006; COWABUNGA DUDES!
🥷🐢😬

Boomers will buy it to watch Fox News/NewsMax/OANN on it at an absolute eye searing brightness level.

# ? Aug 21, 2023 21:37

bull3964: Nov 18, 2000; DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.

I've put a 110 protector screen in my living room before, so I would absolutely be down for something that size at some point.

# ? Aug 21, 2023 21:40

god this blows: Mar 13, 2003

KillHour posted:

As someone with a 77 that barely fits on the wall in my dedicated theater room, I can say that's an absurdly large TV goddamn.

I thought 77� would be big enough for any wall until I moved into my house.

# ? Aug 21, 2023 21:41

Arrath: Apr 14, 2011

Are we up to tvs that require tandem wall mounts side by side yet?

# ? Aug 21, 2023 21:44

Klungar: Feb 12, 2008; Klungo make bessst ever video game, 'Hero Klungo Sssavesss Teh World.'

I have a 120" projection screen in my living room, and I honestly think I could have gone up to the 150" screen without it being absolutely absurd.

# ? Aug 21, 2023 21:45

GreenNight: Feb 19, 2006; Turning the light on the darkest places, you and I know we got to face this now. We got to face this now.

I'm helping a buddy build a wall with plywood backing to hang his new projection screen. I don't know the size but the loving box was 8 feet long.

# ? Aug 21, 2023 21:48

Jaxyon: Mar 7, 2016; I’m just saying I would like to see a man beat a woman in a cage. Just to be sure.

So I haven't bought a TV in like 10 years(I have a 55" Samsung 1080p) and it was like $1200 at costco when I bought it.

Now I'm seeing Samsung 70" - TU700D Series - 4K UHD LED for $350

What the gently caress happened to make things so cheap, and is that a good TV?

edit: I should probably read the whole OP

Jaxyon fucked around with this message at 02:04 on Aug 22, 2023

# ? Aug 22, 2023 01:57

Mister Facetious: Apr 21, 2007; I think I died and woke up in L.A.,
I don't know how I wound up in this place...

Jaxyon posted:

What the gently caress happened to make things so cheap, and is that a good TV?

Yields for larger glass sheets to cut panels from improved immensely, lowering costs.

As far as budget TVs go ($600 or less), you're looking at TCL and Hisense. Samsung isn't really price, quality, or feature competitive these days except for their highest end stuff, which is kinda sad.

Jaxyon posted:

edit: I should probably read the whole OP

I should probably update the OP :v:

Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 02:13 on Aug 22, 2023

# ? Aug 22, 2023 02:05

tehinternet: Feb 14, 2005; Semantically, "you" is both singular and plural, though syntactically it is always plural. It always takes a verb form that originally marked the word as plural.

Also, there is no plural when the context is an argument with an individual rather than a group. Somfin shouldn't put words in my mouth.

GreenNight posted:

98" TLC for $4k and free shipping.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09NLJ8ZZS

That�s a whole lot of TV � almost 4,100sq in of viewing area. Christ.

45PPI though

# ? Aug 22, 2023 02:33

FilthyImp: Sep 30, 2002; Anime Deviant

Jaxyon posted:

What the gently caress happened to make things so cheap, and is that a good TV?

Greater efficiencies of production, better/brighter/smaller LEDs, and an overall monetization of the UI by selling ads or selling your data.

The nice poo poo like OLEDs or cutting-edge MicroLEDs are still more expensive.

# ? Aug 22, 2023 02:46

Kingtheninja: Jul 29, 2004; "You're the best looking guy here."

Question about LG's universal remote feature:

It automatically synced with things like my sound bar and chrome cast when I first set those up. Today for the first time everything just stopped working on it. I've had an issue with the internet in my house but even after fixing it the controller still won't work with things again.

I went into the menu for universal remote and it says everything is connected. Any ideas?

# ? Aug 22, 2023 21:21

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# ? May 13, 2024 01:48

wash bucket: Feb 21, 2006

Random thought: but I suddenly remembered that Nielsen Families used to be a thing. I can even remember rumors that so-and-so's family was a Nielsen family and it was treated like a prestigious secret as if our favorite shows would live and die by their whims.

It's a funny idea to think back on now that all our TVs, phones, and apps are constantly reporting our viewing habits and there are numerous open source projects dedicated to stopping it. Meanwhile Netflix is notorious for cancelling everyone's favorite shows after one season because they didn't like the metrics. The future is weird.

# ? Aug 24, 2023 20:58

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Inspect Your Gadgets > Televisions Thread: Almost cheaper to build your house out of TVs than wood

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