[Modern History] Guns Condoms and Electricity

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Modern History] Guns Condoms and Electricity

Tankbuster: Oct 1, 2021

Weka posted:

Look the rules are if you want to talk about the history of male genital mutilation in America and beyond that's fine but just don't discuss the current state of affairs.

How about that Kellogg?

well you can start with this

https://twitter.com/nocontextvarg/status/1770503973578940573?s=46

# ? Mar 20, 2024 20:17

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# ? Apr 27, 2024 23:05

RandolphCarter: Jul 30, 2005

i say swears online posted:

Goodmorning, Stalingrad!
Lots of folks who don�t like you
Had give you up for dead.
But you ain�t dead!
Goodmorning, Stalingrad!
Where I live down in Dixie
Thinkgs is bad �
But they�re not so bad
I still can�t say,
Goodmorning Stalingrad!
And I�m not so dumb
I still don�t know
That as long as your red star
Lights the sky,
We won�t die.

Goodmorning Stalingrad!
You�re half a world away or more
But when your guns roar,
They roar for me �
And for everybody
who want to be free.

Goodmorning Stalingrad!
Some folks try to tell me down this way
That you�re our ally just for today.
That may be so � for those who want it so.
But as for me � you�re my ally
Until we all free.

Goodmorning Stalingrad!
When crooks and klansmen
Lift their heads and things is bad,
I can look way across the sea
And see where simple working folks like me
Lift their heads, too, with gun in hand
To drive the fascists from the land.
You�ve stood between us well,
Stalingrad!
The folks who hate you�d
Done give you up for dead �
They were glad.

But you ain�t dead!

And you won�t be
As long as I am you
And you are me �
For you have allies everywhere,
All over the world, who care.
And they
Are with you more
Than just today.

Listen! I don�t own no radio �
Can�t send no messages through the air.
But I reckon you can hear me,
Anyhow, away off there.
And I know you know
I mean it when I say,
(Maybe in a whisper
To keep the Klan away)
Goodmorning, Stalingrad!
I�m glad
You ain�t dead!

GOODMORNING, STALINGRAD!

# ? Mar 21, 2024 15:08

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

https://twitter.com/NateMaconStan/status/1770455117088661967

# ? Mar 21, 2024 15:46

bedpan: Apr 23, 2008

gradenko_2000 posted:

https://twitter.com/NateMaconStan/status/1770455117088661967

I'm glad we built lots of coal, oil, and gas burning infrastructure instead dangerous nuclear technology that has the chance for terrible accidents and produces waste products we cannot deal with

# ? Mar 21, 2024 15:57

Danann: Aug 4, 2013

https://twitter.com/LandsknechtPike/status/1770187069047865588

quote:

The culture of Marsh Arabs is very interesting. These are people of mysterious origin who inhabit the marshes in southern Iraq and live in traditional reed houses.

There used to be much more of them.

I recently found a depiction of the Marsh Arabs made by the Portuguese around 1540 where it is said "These people are called jizares, inhabit some islands that are in the strait of Basra, are very valiant people and great marksmen."

This caught my interest and I researched more.

While they speak Arabic, it is not known where the people known as Marsh Arabs, also referred to as the Ahwaris, came from.

But they have lived in these marshlands for a long time and developed their own distinct culture different from their neighbors.

The Mesopotamian marshlands cover a huge area in Southern Iraq and southwestern Iran as well as partially in northern Kuwait.

To survive in such environment, the Marsh Arabs traditionally depended on raising water buffalos which are found in these marshes.

They also cultivated rice and other crops.

The traditional reed houses of Marsh Arabs are called mudhif!

Reeds from the marshes proved to be a good building material and stood the test of time.

For transportation they use long canoes called mashoof.

But Marsh Arabs were often looked down upon.

They lived a very humble existence and any money they made was mostly from selling reed mats.

The marshlands also developed a sinister reputation as a safe haven for thieves and bandits.

A British observer wrote in 1920s, "Their neighbours look upon them with scorn not unmixed with fear. Apart from their outlandish manner of life they are hardened thieves and cutthroats."

Historically the Mesopotamian marshlands were also a refuge for slaves and rebels such as during the Zanj Rebellion 869-883.

Such reputation carried into modern times.

During the government of Saddam Hussein, the marshlands were seen as refuge for his political opponents and insurgents.

Following the failed uprising in 1991, Saddam Hussein's government decided to drain the marshes to punish the Marsh Arabs, who were mostly Shiite Muslims.

200,000 Marsh Arabs were displaced as a result of this campaign against them.

But following the overthrow of Saddam's regime water flow to the marshes was restored and the ecosystem has begun to recover.

The permanent wetlands now cover more than 50% of 1970s levels!

However apparently only few of the resettled Marsh Arabs have returned.

Their numbers are fewer than they used to be.

It is a very tough lifestyle which seems to be disappearing.

More photos of Marsh Arabs who continue living their traditional lifestyle.

Water buffalos continue to be essential for maintaining the traditional way of life of Marsh Arabs.

short thread about marsh arab community in iraq plus photos

# ? Mar 22, 2024 04:59

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

gradenko_2000 posted:

https://twitter.com/NateMaconStan/status/1770455117088661967

that guy needs the power to charge his fuckin phone

# ? Mar 22, 2024 08:31

Megamissen: Jul 19, 2022; any post can be a kannapost
if you want it to be

theres a theory that they are descendants on the sumerians

# ? Mar 22, 2024 14:15

Cerebral Bore: Apr 21, 2010; Fun Shoe

Megamissen posted:

theres a theory that they are descendants on the sumerians

didn't know that about nixon

# ? Mar 22, 2024 14:17

bedpan: Apr 23, 2008

Megamissen posted:

theres a theory that they are descendants on the sumerians

isn't this essentially everyone who lives in modern Iraq and the surrounding area? same way that they are the descendants of the assyrians?

# ? Mar 22, 2024 18:28

sullat: Jan 9, 2012

bedpan posted:

isn't this essentially everyone who lives in modern Iraq and the surrounding area? same way that they are the descendants of the assyrians?

Well the Assyrians live in what is now northern Iraq and the Sumerians in southern Iraq so they're more likely to be related to them, as well as the Chaldeans, Elamites, Martu and anyone else that was hanging around there when the marshes were formed. Keep in mind that that area was part of the Persian gulf ~4000 years ago, the marshes slowly formed after a few thousand years of sediment deposits at the mouths of the rivers.

# ? Mar 23, 2024 00:55

Falukorv: Jun 23, 2013; A funny little mouse!

similar history to the Ria de Aveiro in Portugal, a large lagoon by the city the lagoon is named after. A large expanse of salt marshes, and one of the most iconic symbols of the region are the beautifully painted low-keeled boats (moliceiros) used to collect seaweed for fertiliser.

and like the Basra marshes it�s more recent than you think. only during the last few thousand years that the river Vouga began to fill it with enough sediment at the mouth of the river to expand the marshes and dunes. even cut off the lagoon and the city from the ocean in like the 18th century so they have since built a channel to maintain the sea connection.

# ? Mar 23, 2024 01:50

Megamissen: Jul 19, 2022; any post can be a kannapost
if you want it to be

bedpan posted:

isn't this essentially everyone who lives in modern Iraq and the surrounding area? same way that they are the descendants of the assyrians?

i heard if from my friend whose family is from the region and has an interest in the subject, but i would guess its the protected nature of the marshes providing a refuge that allows a societal continuity much like the mountains of the caucasus or the hilly forests of the india/burma/china border area

# ? Mar 23, 2024 02:02

Chamale: Jul 11, 2010; I'm helping!

Danann posted:

short thread about marsh arab community in iraq plus photos

There was a culture of marsh-dwellers in Gascony who walked around on stilts. It's hard to tax or conscript people who live in swamps, so the French government drained all the marshes and destroyed this culture in the early 19th century.

# ? Mar 23, 2024 02:08

Teriyaki Hairpiece: Dec 29, 2006; I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.

Governments are always trying to bring to heel the in-between. Whether it's an abandoned warehouse full of artists, a mountain range full of heretics, or a marsh full of ethnically confusing malcontents, an organized and centralized state wants nothing more than to clamp down.

# ? Mar 23, 2024 02:31

Teriyaki Hairpiece: Dec 29, 2006; I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.

Venice was founded by refugees and runaway slaves found shelter with the Seminoles those are just two swamp cultures off the top of my head

# ? Mar 23, 2024 02:32

sullat: Jan 9, 2012

Chamale posted:

There was a culture of marsh-dwellers in Gascony who walked around on stilts. It's hard to tax or conscript people who live in swamps, so the French government drained all the marshes and destroyed this culture in the early 19th century.

Also the fens in England where they were using the swamps to catch fish and hunt and smuggle instead of raising sheep so they used new-fangled steam technology to drain the fens to put an end to that sort of unproductive use of land.

# ? Mar 23, 2024 02:39

Kassad: Nov 12, 2005; It's about time.

The same logic was at play in draining the swamp in Gascony. They turned it into a giant pine plantation.

# ? Mar 23, 2024 10:46

Orange Devil: Oct 1, 2010; Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

How big are these pines?

Pining for the swamps.

# ? Mar 23, 2024 10:56

Weka: May 5, 2019; That child totally had it coming. Nobody should be able to be out at dusk except cars.

Orange Devil posted:

How big are these pines?

Pining for the swamps.

Prepare to die

# ? Mar 24, 2024 03:42

Teriyaki Hairpiece: Dec 29, 2006; I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.

There's a fascinating thing that happens in lots of history discussions, particularly with armchair or autodidactic historians, where the presence of misinformation is either downplayed or completely discounted.

A discussion might proceed like this:

A: So and so made such a battlefield decision because he was stupid
B: He wasn't stupid! He just didn't understand what the eventual outcome was
C: He wasn't stupid, the culture in which he was raised and educated created conditions where he had to make that decision
D: It was actually a smart decision based on all this stuff we've recently learned

And then it turned out that the dude was just acting on several erroneous reports that said 100000 well trained men were right over the hill and about to save everything

And I get it. "Acting on misinformation" is essentially the historical version of "A wizard did it". The influence of misinformation is impossible to quantify. But it plays such a part!

# ? Mar 27, 2024 03:02

vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:

There's a fascinating thing that happens in lots of history discussions, particularly with armchair or autodidactic historians, where the presence of misinformation is either downplayed or completely discounted.

A discussion might proceed like this:

A: So and so made such a battlefield decision because he was stupid
B: He wasn't stupid! He just didn't understand what the eventual outcome was
C: He wasn't stupid, the culture in which he was raised and educated created conditions where he had to make that decision
D: It was actually a smart decision based on all this stuff we've recently learned

And then it turned out that the dude was just acting on several erroneous reports that said 100000 well trained men were right over the hill and about to save everything

And I get it. "Acting on misinformation" is essentially the historical version of "A wizard did it". The influence of misinformation is impossible to quantify. But it plays such a part!

You get this kind of thing with students too, they look back at events with the benefit of hindsight and conclude that So-and-so was stupid because they tried to do a policy and it failed, so clearly if they had just made different policy choices they would have succeeded. And you have to go back and point out all the ways their choices were constrained, or they were operating on bad information, or their policy actually succeeded at what they were planning but it had unintended side effects that are the big thing historians now care about, or whatever else.

Misinformation in particular is hard to study because unless you have evidence from both sides it's hard to evaluate whether it's misinformation or bad information, but either way you can say that the lack of accurate information affected the result. Even then though, one of the most difficult things in history is evaluating why people make decisions. We can look at the decisions they made and we can look at the results of those decisions and we can extrapolate to why we think they did it, but it's surprisingly rare for people to leave behind accurate records saying "I made Decision X because of Reason Y" and even in the rare cases where people do leave those records behind, they're often fudged after the fact: 20 years later the person writes a memoir where they say they did it because of Reason Y, but now historians get to debate whether they really mean it or whatever it was actually because of Reason Z and they're misremembering or trying to obfuscate the real motivation for one reason or another.

# ? Mar 27, 2024 14:08

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

I just got back from vacation, and one of the places I went to was this place called Onuk Island, past the very tip of Palawan, just about closer to Sabah in Malaysia than the Philippine mainland

as I got off the boat and headed inland, it struck me that this was the sort of thing that got mentioned in Shattered Sword: that even if the Imperial Japanese Navy, by some turn of events, managed to beat back the USN carriers and attempt a ground invasion of Midway, it would have gone very poorly for them, because the IJN landing force would have to debark well short of the island itself. It'd be some 300 meters of wading through shin-high water as you slog across a sandbar while .50 cal MGs and light tanks planted on the base would be blasting away the whole time. I was barely carrying anything myself and it was a struggle - trying to do this fully clothed, with a full pack, would have been arduous. Trying to do this while under fire, without cover, would have been murderous.

I guess it's one thing to read about it in a book, and quite another to physically experience even just a small part of the point trying to be conveyed.

# ? Mar 27, 2024 14:37

Azathoth: Apr 3, 2001

That's really cool!

I remember that same point from Shattered Sword, also that then even if they somehow managed to win, they barely had enough free ground troops to take Midway and that no one in the Japanese military even considered an invasion of Hawaii so taking Midway was basically pointless. It did get them the decisive naval battle they wanted but they wasted a lot of resources with ground force planning.

# ? Mar 27, 2024 15:44

my dad: Oct 17, 2012; this shall be humorous

I hope the vacation was fun. And yeah, would not want to have to waddle up turkey shoot beach.

# ? Mar 27, 2024 17:53

Pomeroy: Apr 20, 2020

Some Guy TT posted:

is it true that contemporary american accents are actually closer to what english people sounded like in the eighteenth century than actual english people do today because theyre all copying some goofy rear end nineteenth century fad we never bothered with

I do recall reading an article a while back, that certain Appalachian pronunciations were closer to Elizabethan pronunciations than anything else.

# ? Mar 27, 2024 18:19

sullat: Jan 9, 2012

my dad posted:

I hope the vacation was fun. And yeah, would not want to have to waddle up turkey shoot beach.

Yeah that looks like a cool place to go. Re: Midway though I think, in theory, a hypothetical Japanese amphibious invasion would involve considerable shore bombardment and air support from the non-sunk aircraft carriers so it's not like they'd be wading towards intact defenders.

# ? Mar 27, 2024 18:41

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

this was posted for the humor column about the 1952 democratic political convention given this context i was a bit caught off guard to read the section in the upper left thinking it was supposed to be a joke only to realize that no apparently this was apparently a sincere argument

# ? Mar 28, 2024 14:44

vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

Some Guy TT posted:

this was posted for the humor column about the 1952 democratic political convention given this context i was a bit caught off guard to read the section in the upper left thinking it was supposed to be a joke only to realize that no apparently this was apparently a sincere argument

US presidents used to look at maps and think like Paradox game players. A real argument Nixon and Kissinger used to justify their coup in Chile was that if Cuba and Chile were both communist then they would turn all of Latin America into a communist sandwich and conquer the whole region.

# ? Mar 28, 2024 14:50

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

gradenko_2000 posted:

I just got back from vacation, and one of the places I went to was this place called Onuk Island, past the very tip of Palawan, just about closer to Sabah in Malaysia than the Philippine mainland

as I got off the boat and headed inland, it struck me that this was the sort of thing that got mentioned in Shattered Sword: that even if the Imperial Japanese Navy, by some turn of events, managed to beat back the USN carriers and attempt a ground invasion of Midway, it would have gone very poorly for them, because the IJN landing force would have to debark well short of the island itself. It'd be some 300 meters of wading through shin-high water as you slog across a sandbar while .50 cal MGs and light tanks planted on the base would be blasting away the whole time. I was barely carrying anything myself and it was a struggle - trying to do this fully clothed, with a full pack, would have been arduous. Trying to do this while under fire, without cover, would have been murderous.

I guess it's one thing to read about it in a book, and quite another to physically experience even just a small part of the point trying to be conveyed.

that's beautiful man. the beach seems cool too

# ? Mar 28, 2024 15:16

i say swears online: Mar 4, 2005

"wow it's so beautiful here, babe"

"yeah. wouldn't it suck to be way out there, knee-deep as 12.7mm hot lead sprays at you from that treeline? it's 1942, and I can taste the salt spray and blood. my commanding officer is right behind me with a sword. his dried ear necklace makes a distinct rattle..."

# ? Mar 28, 2024 15:19

StashAugustine: Mar 24, 2013; Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

i say swears online posted:

"wow it's so beautiful here, babe"

"yeah. wouldn't it suck to be way out there, knee-deep as 12.7mm hot lead sprays at you from that treeline? it's 1942, and I can taste the salt spray and blood. my commanding officer is right behind me with a sword. his dried ear necklace makes a distinct rattle..."

Dudes rock

# ? Mar 28, 2024 15:22

ContinuityNewTimes: Dec 30, 2010; Я выдуман напрочь

The "listening to war audiobooks and fantasising about war brothers" comic but instead of a guy frowning in a comfy chair he's on the world's most beautiful beach

# ? Mar 28, 2024 15:39

i say swears online: Mar 4, 2005

*looking down at coconut with straw in it* i could deflect a bayonet with this, right hon?

# ? Mar 28, 2024 15:44

Dameius: Apr 3, 2006

i say swears online posted:

*looking down at coconut with straw in it* i could deflect a bayonet with this, right hon?

*looking at middle distance brush cover* this coconut is pretty small, think it'd approximate a grenade?

# ? Mar 28, 2024 15:54

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

a taste of paradise... but also a taste of hell

# ? Mar 28, 2024 15:57

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

I just think the trad/retvrn guys would have fewer hangups about the past if they were willing to daydream a little and imagine that the ro-ro ferry they're taking across Lake Michigan is actually the prow of a Roman Trireme on its way to Carthage or whatever

Don Quixotemaxxing and Walter Mittypilled

Like don't tell me you wouldn't feel at least a little twinge of pretending you were in The Thin Red Line when given this view

gradenko_2000 has issued a correction as of 16:01 on Mar 28, 2024

# ? Mar 28, 2024 15:59

fits my needs: Jan 1, 2011; Grimey Drawer

i say swears online posted:

"wow it's so beautiful here, babe"

"yeah. wouldn't it suck to be way out there, knee-deep as 12.7mm hot lead sprays at you from that treeline? it's 1942, and I can taste the salt spray and blood. my commanding officer is right behind me with a sword. his dried ear necklace makes a distinct rattle..."

lol

# ? Mar 28, 2024 16:00

Cerebral Bore: Apr 21, 2010; Fun Shoe

vyelkin posted:

US presidents used to look at maps and think like Paradox game players. A real argument Nixon and Kissinger used to justify their coup in Chile was that if Cuba and Chile were both communist then they would turn all of Latin America into a communist sandwich and conquer the whole region.

used to?

# ? Mar 28, 2024 16:08

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

Oh my goodness, I�m so hopeful! Because I�m just so alive to the fact that we can�t declare failure yet because we (and here I mean White people) have never really tried to dismantle White supremacy. Men have never really tried to dismantle patriarchy. Americans have never really tried to build an economic system more liberating than capitalism. And we�ve definitely never committed our lives, collectively, to organizing with each other to make that happen.

# ? Mar 29, 2024 04:20

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# ? Apr 27, 2024 23:05

Suplex Liberace: Jan 18, 2012

Cerebral Bore posted:

used to?

the current and last us presidents cannot use a map in anyway i would bet my life on it

# ? Mar 29, 2024 04:45

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