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My Volvo 164e used a hard plastic timing gear on the camshaft. (It had the early B30A engine) I eventually got a steel replacement but the original was loaded with stress fractures when I pulled it.
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Dec 31, 2014 16:31
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The kick rear end little 22R Toyota engine requires the chain and associated parts to be replaced every 150,000 miles. Its not easy, but its certainly not like doing one on a audi v8. almost all american cars used nylon timing gears at some point, even the rover 3.5/3.9 did it for "noise reduction" reasons. E: Content!   destroyed pilot bearing on wifeys jeep.
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Dec 31, 2014 17:02
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cursedshitbox posted:The kick rear end little 22R Toyota engine requires the chain and associated parts to be replaced every 150,000 miles. Its not easy, but its certainly not like doing one on a audi v8.  
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Dec 31, 2014 17:15
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 Oh yeah, lets not forget the sohc 4.0L. E: VVVVV its a Ferd. cursedshitbox fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Dec 31, 2014 |
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Dec 31, 2014 17:19
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cursedshitbox posted:
Yeah. Audi reallly REALLY should've stuck to the inline 4 and 5s cursedshitbox posted:E: VVVVV its a Ferd. I know, just follow up comment. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Dec 31, 2014 |
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Dec 31, 2014 17:21
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Ford USA should have really got with the Ford Au program. Old 250ci engine -> yamaha designed 4.1L crossflow -> 4L I6 -> Barra VCT Ford USA had to have V6 because they had to have FWD in large cars... They don't do V6 well, stinky axe/lynx. Fo3 fucked around with this message at 17:48 on Dec 31, 2014 |
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Dec 31, 2014 17:38
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Huggable Bear King posted:Chains get noisy when they're about to go and other than manufacturing defects they typically last the life of the vehicle. They are a PITA to replace though. You really can't say that as absolute when it comes to 'life of the vehicle.' Because what is the life of the vehicle? Is your measure of life different from the manufacturer? Maybe that was true 30 years ago when things were overbuilt because we didn't have our current standards of NVH or had fuel economy targets to hit, but that's not today. Things are engineered to the point where cost intersects with expected lifespan. What the chain is allowing them to do now is push the maintenance window out beyond the expected lifecycle of the vehicle so they can say the part is maintenance free. God help you if you ever have to replace it though. When I replaced the timing belt on my car at 112,000 miles, the belt itself was pristine. There were no cracks or frayed edges. The pulleys, however, were all shot. Every single one of them. Maybe they speced lower life bearings on the pulleys because the belt itself was expected to be replaced at 110k miles, it's hard to say. But i'm not convinced that the recent move to chains has been anything other than a race to lower the maintenance cost total in the first 10 years of vehicle life.
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Dec 31, 2014 18:00
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Even Honda has switched to chains. Of course their engines sound like sewing machines so you probably won't notice the whine and clatter of a timing chain 
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Dec 31, 2014 18:15
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Timing chain chat: 270,000mi on my Explorer's SOHC V6  That fucker has DUAL timing chains though, so if one goes, that Apparently if you keep up with oil changes, and don't thrash it, it'll run forever.
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Dec 31, 2014 18:33
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 More noise, more better.
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Dec 31, 2014 19:08
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Aren't the chains facing the firewall as well?
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Dec 31, 2014 19:15
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Grandma's car was saved by the roof.  
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Dec 31, 2014 20:12
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Ghostgramps saved her car. 
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Dec 31, 2014 20:12
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He did buy the house with GI bill money 
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Dec 31, 2014 20:18
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So what caused the fall? Wind? Soil degradation or something?
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Dec 31, 2014 20:20
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It was apparently quite windy and it just snapped at the roots.
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Dec 31, 2014 20:25
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cursedshitbox posted:
You can't leave out the key information that the tensioner used oil pressure to help maintain proper tension AND the rear one was prone to lubrication failure. The Ferd solution for this failure mode was to equip the tensioner with a stronger spring. This doesn't fix the root problem but it did push any failures out past warranty expiration so good enough! If you were lucky enough to hear the chain slap you were looking at having to pretty much pull the engine as the rear timing arrangement was jammed against the firewall. Otherwise... well let's just say the 4.0 was an interference design and we all know what that means. All so they could use the same head castings on both cylinder banks.
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Dec 31, 2014 20:28
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genuinebald posted:Aren't the chains facing the firewall as well? Yes. You need to pull the motor to do pretty much anything on that car, including changing the O2 sensors.
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Dec 31, 2014 20:35
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Goddammit, now I am reading your posts with Nick Offermans' voice in my head too. 
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Dec 31, 2014 20:39
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bull3964 posted:i'm not convinced that the recent move to chains has been anything other than a race to lower the maintenance cost total in the first 10 years of vehicle life. Yeah that's probably true. I live in the peoples republic of Maryland where salt is used liberally to ruin car bodies. I expect rust to kill my car before the timing chain lets go. I agree that I would never want to do the chains on my car because it means taking everything off the front of the engine. gently caress that.
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Dec 31, 2014 21:01
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Timing chains were good but noisy and inefficient. Belts are quiet and economical and actually really pleasant to own if they're well designed because there isn't a timing chain cover with all it's miles of potentially leaky sealer/gasket surface. The shift back to chain has been because of advances in chain quietness, yes, but mostly because it makes implementing dual VVTI so much easier. I'm sure they exist, but I personally have never seen a dual VVTI engine with a cambelt. It's just so much easier to build with a chain. I used to be anti cambelt but working as a mechanic has changed my mind; I'd rather have a belt I have to change once in a while and have everything perfect with only 2-3 little oil seals to replace in case of a leak. With a chain, there is a certainty that the timing cover will eventually begin leaking and the plastic guides will eventually wear out and I'll have to spend hours doing messy, inconvenient poo poo.
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Dec 31, 2014 21:29
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Don't forget that most of the loving time the headgasket is wedged between the head (upper chain cover) and a chain cover that bolts to the block, so that when the fucker does blow a seal you're at high risk of making GBS threads the HG apart trying to fix it. The M104 merc engine with tech updates routes coolant through the upper cover. and you have a rubber seal between the upper/lower covers, and a headgasket that also meets right there. Guess where the fuckers are known for blowing apart.
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Dec 31, 2014 22:17
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Slavvy posted:I'm sure they exist, but I personally have never seen a dual VVTI engine with a cambelt. I believe the 2011+ STI has dual AVCS.
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Dec 31, 2014 23:40
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bull3964 posted:I believe the 2011+ STI has dual AVCS. 08+
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Dec 31, 2014 23:47
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Slavvy posted:Timing chains were good but noisy and inefficient. Belts are quiet and economical and actually really pleasant to own if they're well designed because there isn't a timing chain cover with all it's miles of potentially leaky sealer/gasket surface. The shift back to chain has been because of advances in chain quietness, yes, but mostly because it makes implementing dual VVTI so much easier. I'm sure they exist, but I personally have never seen a dual VVTI engine with a cambelt. It's just so much easier to build with a chain. Seems it was first introduced in an engine with a belt.
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Jan 1, 2015 00:07
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Pi Mu Rho posted:Hire car with a chip in the windscreen (luckily mentioned in the condition report) turned into a 3-foot crack in freezing weather: "We marked a chip. There was no crack...what did you do? PainterofCrap fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Jan 1, 2015 |
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Jan 1, 2015 00:27
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drat. First time ever quote / edit. Thanks, lack of iPad skills! content: tighten your lugnuts, kids!  (house is off of a raised portion of I-95 in Phila.) PainterofCrap fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Jan 1, 2015 |
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Jan 1, 2015 00:44
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 and I've worked on those countless times.
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Jan 1, 2015 01:09
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Mr-Spain posted:Post a picture! I'm not googling on principal but it sounds bland as heck. Here's a pic of a late 90's Lumina. Small. Early 90s corolla, actually. It would be rarer now, but ten years ago it certainly wasn't.  Not a failure, though; the thing was bulletproof. Computer viking fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Jan 1, 2015 |
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Jan 1, 2015 01:12
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dissss posted:I never got the love for that particular engine - it was bad on fuel, and not particularly refined. The later 3.6 isn't very refined either but at least performance and fuel consumption are a lot better. Most FWD and RWD 3800s will outlast the cars they're in and handle just about as much neglect as you could throw at them, provided the plastic intake manifold doesn't melt down or the intake gaskets don't blow themselves to bits. Basically, a "good" GM motor like the vaunted 350 V8. The 3100 was cost-cutted into a poo poo engine that eats gaskets like french fries. The 2.8 before it was actually sorta decent, gutlessness notwithstanding. The less said about the 3.4, the better. Computer viking posted:Early 90s ftfy
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Jan 1, 2015 02:12
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Everyday Lurker posted:provided the plastic intake manifold doesn't melt down or the intake gaskets don't blow themselves to bits That's why you get a pre-series-1, like in the 87-89 Olds Delta/Buick Lesabre.
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Jan 1, 2015 02:38
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Everyday Lurker posted:the vaunted 350 V8. As for that Camry wagon, too noteworthy in the states. Its paint has an actual visible color, it's a wagon (the typical American hates them) and there's a significant perception that they're more reliable than anything else. Friar Zucchini fucked around with this message at 03:26 on Jan 1, 2015 |
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Jan 1, 2015 03:20
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Geirskogul posted:That's why you get a pre-series-1, like in the 87-89 Olds Delta/Buick Lesabre. Or a commodore, which always had an alloy manifold (right up into the 00's).
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Jan 1, 2015 04:36
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West SAAB Story posted:Goddammit, now I am reading your posts with Nick Offermans' voice in my head too. This is the only way they should be read. Also, 
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Jan 1, 2015 04:40
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Everyday Lurker posted:Most FWD and RWD 3800s will outlast the cars they're in and handle just about as much neglect as you could throw at them So if you actually maintain your vehicles then there is no appeal?
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Jan 1, 2015 05:34
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dissss posted:So if you actually maintain your vehicles then there is no appeal? They make a cool clickity clickity clickity sound when you're on the gas and are smooth as hell
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Jan 1, 2015 06:22
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8ender posted:They make a cool clickity clickity clickity sound when you're on the gas and are smooth as hell Smooth? Bitch it's a 90 degree v6 derived from cutting two cylinders off of the Fireball V8, attached to a 60 degree bellhousing, and has the biggest loving harmonic balancer I've ever seen on a passenger car to compensate for its roughness. Still my favorite non-speciality engine of all goddamn time.
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Jan 1, 2015 07:58
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That's roughly how I think of xA-FE and xS-FE. Cheerful little rumbly sewing machines that go and go and go and go unto infinity. You seem to always be able to resurrect them after a lifetime of abuse and 300,000km's.
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Jan 1, 2015 08:09
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Geirskogul posted:Smooth? Bitch it's a 90 degree v6 derived from cutting two cylinders off of the Fireball V8, attached to a 60 degree bellhousing, and has the biggest loving harmonic balancer I've ever seen on a passenger car to compensate for its roughness. Wait how long did they use that goddamn thing? It was developed in like 1960.
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Jan 1, 2015 09:25
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Godholio posted:Wait how long did they use that goddamn thing? It was developed in like 1960. Looks like the last 3800 S-III rolled off the line in 08. So drat near 50 years.
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Jan 1, 2015 09:44
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