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Who Killed WCW?
Eric Bischoff
Hulk Hogan
Vince Russo
Jerusalem
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disaster pastor
May 1, 2007




It's impressive how there's so much stupid poo poo that you can just glaze over 1993, a year in which the company posted losses well into in the eight-figure range and probably would have died if not for Turner's affection for wrasslin'.

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disaster pastor
May 1, 2007




LividLiquid posted:

Had he not pulled the shows, the company would have been sold to Fusient and Eric Bischoff, leaving the huge contracts such as Nash Hogan and Hart with AOL Time Warner.

Citation? Only source I can find says the opposite.

quote:

During a conference call between Bischoff, Bedol, Siegel and media reporters, Bedol said that Fusient has purchased the contracts of everyone involved in World Championship Wrestling.

The Fusient deal certainly would not have followed the same rules as the deal Vince signed.

disaster pastor
May 1, 2007




Pneub posted:

I thought it was a roll-up.

No, Luger definitely won with the Torture Rack.

disaster pastor
May 1, 2007




Von Linus posted:

Yeah, I was listening to a few things with Schiavone and Heenan on WCW together, and Schiavone was just a oval office. Whatever about Michael Cole not being a very good announcer, he doesn't just exude rudeness and unprofessionalism like Schiavone did. I got the impression that Heenan was trying and that Schiavone either couldn't or wouldn't try to do a good job. I couldn't tell if that was supposed to be in character or what.

Schiavone was a fine announcer right up until about when Bischoff took over the company. Schiavone felt he was more qualified (probably) and could have gotten the spot (ehh), and decided he just hadn't been playing politics enough. So he started playing.

It didn't do him any good at that point, just made him a worse announcer and made Brain and Tenay hate him. Okerlund got along fine with him, probably because Mean Gene wasn't doing commentary, but even though he likes him, he's since freely said things like "everything that Heenan and Tenay said about Tony is both true and Tony's fault."

disaster pastor
May 1, 2007




Moose Bigelow posted:

Especially when Louie Spicolli died.

Ha, that was so loving awful.

disaster pastor
May 1, 2007




Lazy like a Fox posted:

I always thought that Rey lost his mask to Eddie?

No. Rey was scheduled to lose his mask to Eddie in the outstanding Halloween Havoc mask vs. title match, but at the last second they decided to put Rey over instead.

disaster pastor
May 1, 2007




Timby posted:

I'm pretty sure that Sting has said that even if the paycheck was huge, he never wants to work for Vince.

I don't think the sentiment's that strong. Sting and Vince are on fine terms, Sting just has basically his dream contract with TNA, and the last time signing with Vince was realistic, Sting had reservations about the vulgar direction of the WWE product.

disaster pastor
May 1, 2007




404GoonNotFound posted:

Mind explaining for the rest of us?

Shortly before Jericho left the company, his fiancee went to a toy store to pick up a Jericho/Malenko action figure set, since it would be Jericho's last WCW action figure. It rang up as a Hogan/Sting set, giving Hogan credit (and residuals) for moving more merchandise.

EDIT: gently caress, etc.

disaster pastor fucked around with this message at 21:30 on May 24, 2010

disaster pastor
May 1, 2007




whatsabattle posted:

Jericho also once got a royalty check for $0.00 and a Fed Ex package with nothing in it.

Oh WCW. I miss you.

Maffew has started a new series, the BEST series.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mX8fOqsC8kw

Man, I had forgotten about that Raven moment. WCW really had a knack for hiring the absolute worst security they could find, didn't they?

disaster pastor
May 1, 2007




The American Dream posted:

They failed to advertise a PPV and revealed no matches before it in 1999. At a loss it was advertised it by saying "We're the advertising agency and they won't even tell us who's going to be there. Tune in!". Not suprisingly the buyrate was shocking.

(Which PPV was this?)

Fall Brawl '99, IIRC.

disaster pastor
May 1, 2007




ChampRamp posted:

Which one is that one?

April 3.

disaster pastor
May 1, 2007




Save Russian Jews posted:

I don't think you can trademark something like "smack down" any more than you could the phrase "beat up."

WWE definitely has "smackdown" trademarked. But trademarks aren't as strong as a lot of people think; the fact that TBS seems to be using it to describe a website feature instead of a televised wrestling program is probably enough to keep them safe.

disaster pastor
May 1, 2007




CVagts posted:

Who was the source for that story about the North Korea trip?

Flair's autobiography, if I'm remembering correctly.

EDIT: Google confirms.

disaster pastor
May 1, 2007




MrBling posted:

Uncensored 96 was generally speaking a very bad ppv.

It has the Finlay-Regal match where they just beat the poo poo out of each other, but other than that its all poo poo.

Pretty much the only thing of note it did was set up the angle of DDP leaving WCW and living in the street until he returned at Slamboree.

Uncensored was generally speaking a very bad PPV. Every year it had 0-2 decent matches and a ton of poo poo rounding out the card.

disaster pastor
May 1, 2007




Endorph posted:

You could say that about most every WCW PPV after a certain point.

Sure, but the difference is that Uncensored sucked every single time. There's no year where I'd say "hey, might as well check Uncensored out for the experience." It's terrible from its first year to its last, and the best you can hope for is that there's a match that's worth watching separately.

disaster pastor
May 1, 2007




Mr. Carlisle posted:

On paper Uncensored 1997 sounds like a decent lineup. It included:

Dean Malenko v Eddie Guerrero for the U.S. Title (20 minute match)
Ultimo Dragon v Psycosis
Glacier v Mortis
Harlem Heat v Public Enemy
Team nWo (Nash, Hall, Savage, Hogan) v Team WCW (Luger, Steiner, The Giant) v Team Piper (Piper, Benoit, Jarrett, McMichael) in a triangle elimination match

1998 looked alright too, including:

Booker T v Eddie Guerrero for the TV Title
Juvi v Konnan
Jericho v Malenko for the Cruiserweight Championship
DDP v Raven v Benoit in a triple threat match (Which was a fantastic match and probably the only one I've seen from an uncensored PPV)
Bret Hart v Curt Hennig
Sting v Scott Hall
Hogan v Savage in a cage

For '97, Malenko/Guerrero was tremendous, Glacier/Mortis was decent. Dragon and Psychosis phoned it in, the tag match was awful, the main was a clusterfuck (with, granted, an awesome post-match moment), and there's a worthless Bagwell/Riggs strap match and a completely uninteresting Prince Iaukea vs. Rey Mysterio match that actually got the crowd to not care about Rey.

In '98, yes, the triple threat was outstanding. Eddie and Booker had a slow, rough match that was mostly there to move the Chavo angle along. Jericho/Malenko was nearly disappointing because Jericho wasn't really JERICHO in the ring yet, but it set up the big Jericho/Malenko angle so it's usually forgiven. Juvi/Konnan was completely unmemorable. Hart/Hennig was slow, long and boring, Sting/Hall was slow, not as long and boring, there's a Nash vs. Giant match that's slow, short and boring, and Hogan/Savage was a slow, long, loving terrible match that would have been worst match of the year if WCW hadn't signed Warrior.

disaster pastor
May 1, 2007




TL posted:

And in 1997.

That's a bit different because he'd already earned that money; he was sitting around partly because he'd have to be paid extra for any further matches during that time.

disaster pastor
May 1, 2007




For the record, that Heenan picture is from '08 or '09. Sure, it's not pretty, but let's not write his epitaph yet, either; it didn't beat him then, and now the cancer's in remission if I'm remembering correctly and the jaw infection is gone, too. He's still alive and kicking.

disaster pastor
May 1, 2007




Flameingblack posted:

I cannot exactly remember what the fetish that WCW had with unmasking their Lucha stars. Not only was it loving them up in Mexico when they all returned, but there's only been two cases where unmasking a Luchadore has benefited, that I can remember. Juvi, who's mask was loving ugly and Dos Caras Jr, who has a great look as ADR.

Bischoff swore up and down that masked luchadors were not marketable because people couldn't see their faces so they didn't care about them.

If anybody is ever trying to argue that Eric Bischoff is an intelligent man who understands his audience, you can point this out to automatically win the argument.

disaster pastor
May 1, 2007




BigRed0427 posted:

Im looking at the results to it. What was bad about it?

Literally everything. Every match sucked, stupid booking decisions, worst Wargames ever. The best matches of the night were the Cruiserweight Title match and Raven/Saturn, and both would fit in the "decent match" range on any given Raw.

disaster pastor
May 1, 2007




MassRayPer posted:

I wouldn't say it is the worst Wargames ever (Wargames 2000 is definitely worse. It might be the worst double ring War Games though)

Wargames 2000 isn't a real Wargames. Russo christening something "Wargames" doesn't make it so.

disaster pastor
May 1, 2007




Lamuella posted:

Sod trying to find a way to book the Invasion better, I'm trying like hell to think of a way to book the Invasion worse.

It could have been done much worse in many ways. We get really caught up in "what might have been," but they did, at least, an acceptable job.

CobiWann posted:

Gave me one of my favorite wrestling moments...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhBaREV0zVw

Then the next week, the bankruptcy courts said the WWE couldn't use ECW because the process was still ongoing, and we got the Alliance and Stephanie McMahon owning ECW.

I don't know which stories you're confusing, but Stephanie was announced as ECW's owner the same night as that video, not the week after.

disaster pastor
May 1, 2007




CobiWann posted:

Maybe it was the next week they dropped ECW and started calling it "The Alliance."

I don't remember how short it was, but there was a period when they just didn't know what they were calling it. It was "The Coalition" briefly, I think, between finding out that they weren't on solid ground with the ECW name and definitively choosing "Alliance."

disaster pastor
May 1, 2007




Skinty McEdger posted:

The best part of darkside hogan is the promo where him and Savage are hanging about on Venice beach with a couple of homeless people. It's one of the most surreal segments I've ever seen, though I'm sad to say I can't seem to find it on youtube anymore.

From the company that brought you Two Wrestlers on a Beach with Orphans, it's the sequel two years in the making... Two Wrestlers on a Beach with the Homeless!

disaster pastor
May 1, 2007




Ktik posted:

The last Nitro didn't feature the famous Vince promo where he fired Double J. He mentioned a bunch of other wrestlers, but when was the J-A-DOUBLE R-E-DOUBLE T F-I-R-E-D promo?

Raw the same night.

disaster pastor
May 1, 2007




triplexpac posted:

I love the idea of legit doing random drawings and booking around it. It seems like it would be a fun exercise for the booker, and for us fans we'd get one really weird show. I'd rather that once in a while than "can you believe that these two mortal enemies are teaming up? How will they EVER coexist?!"

In my longest-running TNM fed, the equivalent to the Royal Rumble was an unbooked Lethal Lottery/BattleBowl. It was an absolute blast to figure out how to make the winner a convincing World Title challenger by the time his title shot came around.

disaster pastor
May 1, 2007




Paper Jam Dipper posted:

I loved unbooking in TNM. It would give you some of the craziest results. I loved running an "All-Star" promotion of the best wrestlers ever and just seeing who would come out on top. Bret Hart was my Champion for six straight months and not a single match had the result booked for it. He was just beating everyone, especially Fujinami who kept winning number one contender matches. I also once had just a big mixed roster and nobody could beat EZ Money. I had to finally book him off of the title.

I did this, too, many times. But it would always lose a bit of its fun when I realized how much the varying quality of the wrestler exports affected the outcomes (Flair went like 0-30 at one point because his moveset blew and it was virtually impossible for him to win with the Figure-Four). The unbooked Lethal Lottery was my way of getting that thrill without holding my fed hostage; add 40 randoms to tag team matches, book a battle royal for the winners, and then figure out how in the hell to book Donovan Morgan and his 3-5-3 win-loss-draw record as a threat to Vader's title.

disaster pastor
May 1, 2007




Unrelated note, but this link posted much earlier in this thread still works: http://static.tbs.com/sports/thunder/index.htm

disaster pastor
May 1, 2007




Flameingblack posted:

La Parka was a Luchadore in the sense he was from Mexico and had a mask, but he certainly wasn't a Cruiserweight. If you haven't seen La Parka lately as L.A. Park, he has had some amazing, bloody feuds with La Messias (Judas Mesias from TNA) and La Parka (The AAA wrestler who inherited his name).

I was kind of surprised finding out that La Parka had transitioned into such an incredible brawler/hardcore wrestler. Maybe I shouldn't since he always carried around a chair, but his stuff post WCW was excellent.

La Parka went on to put on some great matches against ECW guys in the MLW promotion, but almost every single video is taken down. I'm going to see if I can find and reupload them, because his match against Sabu was surprisingly amazing.

La Parka & Silver King vs Damien 666 & Cicolpe (The Brain and Tony absolutely lose their poo poo in this match)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BksvEZ1o6ps

Sweet Jesus, that chairshot to Ciclope is no longer as funny as Bobby and Tony think it is.

disaster pastor
May 1, 2007





I believe he spoke one more time after reappearing in the white and black and beating down the fake Sting.

EDIT: Found it. October 21.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJ4cxshKslY

disaster pastor fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Mar 15, 2013

disaster pastor
May 1, 2007




Halloween Jack posted:

Hog Pen Match (Triple H vs. Henry Godwinn)

Actually, this is a decent match.

disaster pastor
May 1, 2007




Cardboard Box posted:

I'm pretty sure it's a story from the book but it's not an excerpt, although it's written about as well as one of R.D. Reynold's chapters.

It's an excerpt, though it's been lightly edited.

disaster pastor
May 1, 2007




Ktik posted:

I think it was hosted by the Zappa kids? No idea what it was called.

Happy Hour, I'm pretty sure.

disaster pastor
May 1, 2007




I think you could truthfully say the HoF difference between Foley and Sting is that Foley was in enough right places at enough right times, while Sting was in too many wrong places at too many wrong times. It could just be that simple.

disaster pastor
May 1, 2007




triplexpac posted:

I could see an argument being made for AJ Styles in the HOF if he helped draw in TNA, but nothing draws in TNA so his workrate isn't enough to get him in.

If Joe regularly did PPV buyrates like that one Lockdown with Kurt, I could see him going in.

I think we can pretty safely say that TNA is not and was never good enough or relevant enough for anything that anybody does there to help them get into the WON Hall.

disaster pastor
May 1, 2007




david carmichael posted:

Ted Dibiase sort of stands out as a dude who maybe doesn't belong with everybody else in HOF.

DiBiase definitely belongs. He wasn't just the Million Dollar Man; watch his Mid-South stuff or his work teaming with Stan Hansen in AJPW.

disaster pastor
May 1, 2007




triplexpac posted:

If someone WAS good enough to draw viewers to consistently watch TNA and pay for PPVs, even if it was nowhere near WWE numbers, would that be enough to help their HOF candidacy?

Yes. But nobody fits this qualification.

disaster pastor
May 1, 2007




ChampRamp posted:

Someone make a hall of fame thread.

Working on it now, actually.

disaster pastor
May 1, 2007




LordPants posted:

Punchsport Pagoda > Wrestling Hall of Fame: Celebrating the Steroid Era

I had the same idea.

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disaster pastor
May 1, 2007




Zack_Gochuck posted:

What's the deal with Big Bossman in WCW? Why'd he change his name so much?

They called him "The Boss" to capitalize on having the Big Boss Man working for them. When the WWF complained, he became the Guardian Angel. Then he turned heel and that's a lovely name for a heel, so he went back to Big Bubba Rogers, which he'd used before joining the WWF.

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