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Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Get the ISBN and start googling for torrents I guess. Scans are probably all locked behind some private tracker though.

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ulvir
Jan 2, 2005

just pay for the book, dude

3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

When I went to University, there weren't enough copies of mandatory books in the entire country for every student. Certainly not for sale. That's why there were a lot of photocopiers around, like basically one or more in every lobby, and then some.

E: in some cases the only copy the University had was a photocopy. Yay humanities!

ulvir
Jan 2, 2005

3D Megadoodoo posted:

Yay humanities!

unironically this

3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

ulvir posted:

unironically this

My favourite was always when the only book on the subject is in German/French/whatever. "Oh you don't understand German/French/whatever? What the gently caress kind of student are you? Go be a STEMlord then you piece of poo poo and get out of my office so I can get back to my bottle of Gambina."

bowmore
Oct 6, 2008



Lipstick Apathy

Gripweed posted:

Can someone point me towards good resources for college textbooks? I'm taking a summer course and the textbook is 98 goddamn dollars, so a more affordable option would be preferable.

Does your college have a library? They are pretty good for that type of thing

EricBauman
Nov 30, 2005

DOLF IS RECHTVAARDIG

3D Megadoodoo posted:

My favourite was always when the only book on the subject is in German/French/whatever. "Oh you don't understand German/French/whatever? What the gently caress kind of student are you? Go be a STEMlord then you piece of poo poo and get out of my office so I can get back to my bottle of Gambina."

I did this the wrong way around, once upon a time.

We were assigned some reading by a German philosopher. I looked up his book in what I presumed was the original German, read the assigned chapter, wrote my essay and participated in in-class discussion.
And then found out that the guy had moved to the US halfway through his career and the book we had to read was originally written in English.

Bilirubin
Feb 16, 2014

The sanctioned action is to CHUG


bowmore posted:

Does your college have a library? They are pretty good for that type of thing

They also have electronic versions of texts frequently. When I did the Let's Read of a literary criticism text I took the long quotes from the electronic version of the book even though I was reading a physical copy. You will likely need to set up your uni's VPN or proxy to do this and read it through a special interface but, free.

But a text less than $100 was hard to do like even 20 years ago, academic publishing is very spendy

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


Definitely worth looking into digital libraries (not just your school's, but also your local municipal library and archive.org), but be aware that if the textbook has ancillary material not in the book itself (e.g. on a DVD, or on a publisher's website you need an access code for), the library version usually won't include that. Whether this is a dealbreaker depends on the course in question.

Also, whether you're getting it from the library, buying a second-hand copy, or doing :filez:, be very careful you get the correct edition. Textbook publishers loving love to publish new editions that retain all the typos, inaccuracies, and omissions of the previous edition but shuffle around pagination and homework questions so that students can't re-use previous editions.

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Stupid question: I'm having a bad swing of my adhd and it means that my kindle is effectively useless as I read a page or two of a book, then swap to another one, and repeat. And like - this is fine, this is normal, but thanks to my meds it feels unnatural again, and so I'm gravitating back to reading physical books as they're harder to swap.

But! I want to finish at least one of my kindle books and I don't want to have to buy it. So.

Does anyone know how to make a kindle effectively act like it has only one book on it? Without deleting everything else on it, I have at least a hundred things on it and I don't want to lose those bookmarks.

I assume not, but hell, maybe someone's done something to make a kindle work for intense adhd.

lifg
Dec 4, 2000
<this tag left blank>
Muldoon
When I’ve removed books from kindle it retained all my notes and bookmarks.

Humerus
Jul 7, 2009

Rule of acquisition #111:
Treat people in your debt like family...exploit them.


StrixNebulosa posted:

Stupid question: I'm having a bad swing of my adhd and it means that my kindle is effectively useless as I read a page or two of a book, then swap to another one, and repeat. And like - this is fine, this is normal, but thanks to my meds it feels unnatural again, and so I'm gravitating back to reading physical books as they're harder to swap.

But! I want to finish at least one of my kindle books and I don't want to have to buy it. So.

Does anyone know how to make a kindle effectively act like it has only one book on it? Without deleting everything else on it, I have at least a hundred things on it and I don't want to lose those bookmarks.

I assume not, but hell, maybe someone's done something to make a kindle work for intense adhd.

There's a "disable touchscreen" option for the Oasis, which would make it at least slightly more difficult to change books (you just have to lock/unlock it restore touch functionality). I think that option on a Paperwhite makes it so only swipes turn pages, not sure if it disables the ability to go back to library view or anything.

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Humerus posted:

There's a "disable touchscreen" option for the Oasis, which would make it at least slightly more difficult to change books (you just have to lock/unlock it restore touch functionality). I think that option on a Paperwhite makes it so only swipes turn pages, not sure if it disables the ability to go back to library view or anything.

I have an oasis! I'll give it a go, thanks!

Humerus
Jul 7, 2009

Rule of acquisition #111:
Treat people in your debt like family...exploit them.


StrixNebulosa posted:

I have an oasis! I'll give it a go, thanks!

It's kind of unintuitive to find: you press the top of the screen to pull up the navigation bar/quick menu, and then it's under the three dot menu on the right. It's a lifesaver for trying to read while holding my infant though, she has no sense of personal space.

Ironhead
Jan 19, 2005

Ironhead. Mmm.


Hey y'all, I'm trying to track down a copy of an oddball children's book. I don't know if this is the place to ask, but figure its worth a shot. It's a childrens book written by an Argentinian Olympian called "Martillo Volador y Otros Cuentos" by Jennifer Dahlgren. I don't think it was ever published in English, but that would be cool. I found one listing on Amazon that just says out of stock and is an outrageous $49.99.

Any advice?

regulargonzalez
Aug 18, 2006
UNGH LET ME LICK THOSE BOOTS DADDY HULU ;-* ;-* ;-* YES YES GIVE ME ALL THE CORPORATE CUMMIES :shepspends: :shepspends: :shepspends: ADBLOCK USERS DESERVE THE DEATH PENALTY, DON'T THEY DADDY?
WHEN THE RICH GET RICHER I GET HORNIER :a2m::a2m::a2m::a2m:

Ironhead posted:

Hey y'all, I'm trying to track down a copy of an oddball children's book. I don't know if this is the place to ask, but figure its worth a shot. It's a childrens book written by an Argentinian Olympian called "Martillo Volador y Otros Cuentos" by Jennifer Dahlgren. I don't think it was ever published in English, but that would be cool. I found one listing on Amazon that just says out of stock and is an outrageous $49.99.

Any advice?

$49.99 might be a bargain

https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?kn=Martillo%20Volador%20y%20Otros%20Cuentos&sts=t&cm_sp=SearchF-_-topnav-_-Results

https://www.betterworldbooks.com/search/results?q=Martillo%20Volador%20y%20Otros%20Cuentos

https://www.thriftbooks.com/browse/?b.search=Martillo%20Volador%20y%20Otros%20Cuentos#b.s=mostPopular-desc&b.p=1&b.pp=30&b.oos

Punkin Spunkin
Jan 1, 2010
I just got this basically brand new at a thrift store for like two bucks (along with a gorgeous edition of Mary Beard's How Do We Look) and it's basically the greatest most bizarre book ever


It's like...the anarchist cookbook for people who binge doctor who? It's got weirdly practical serious camping survivalist tips alongside how to escape from a live burial, defend an embassy, or get out of handcuffs...alongside like, an explanation of the science of radio transmissions 😅

Gertrude Perkins
May 1, 2010

Gun Snake

dont talk to gun snake

Drops: human teeth
That's pretty great - reminds me of the Worst-Case Scenario Survival Handbook Series that were big 20-ish years ago. Which taught me how to defend myself against shark attacks and how to fall safely from a tall building, skills I use daily.

3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

You'd think they could've gotten MacGyver for the cover.

bovis
Jan 30, 2007




3D Megadoodoo posted:

You'd think they could've gotten MacGyver for the cover.

Not sure if you knew already and I'm not realising the joke but that is MacGyver from the reboot series they did... Why that ever existed I will never know lol

3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

bovis posted:

Not sure if you knew already and I'm not realising the joke but that is MacGyver from the reboot series they did... Why that ever existed I will never know lol

Oh, no I didn't know there was a new series. I can tell by the smirk that it sucked.

LLSix
Jan 20, 2010

The real power behind countless overlords

Anyone know why the Commonweal series thread was closed? Usually there's a mod message or something. Now, it's just grayed out and gives a weird permission error I've never seen on this forum before.

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound

LLSix posted:

Anyone know why the Commonweal series thread was closed? Usually there's a mod message or something. Now, it's just grayed out and gives a weird permission error I've never seen on this forum before.

There was drama. There's a new thread here: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4006013

Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Jul 2, 2022

Grundulum
Feb 28, 2006
Where is the Let’s Read of the Sword of Truth series? I have a hankering to watch someone else suffer through that mess, preferably pulling entertaining quotes for discussion and commiseration.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer

Grundulum posted:

Where is the Let’s Read of the Sword of Truth series? I have a hankering to watch someone else suffer through that mess, preferably pulling entertaining quotes for discussion and commiseration.

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3668845

Grundulum
Feb 28, 2006

Thanks. The OP ends at Chainfire, which is after I stopped forcing myself to continue but before the end of the list suggested by Wikipedia. Did the books become too miserable even to hateread, or is that actually the end of the main plot?

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer
No idea, haven't got that far in reading the thread yet.

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

So for birthday reasons I've been putting together an amazon list of books, and... I am flabbergasted at how bad Amazon is at discoverability. I mean, I knew this, but it's so weird to me how they DON'T want you to find other products you might be interested in. There's no online experience of walking down a bookstore and seeing titles, no lists, nothing.

I know. Go poke goodreads or ask for recs or whatever, but it's annoying that I can't do it in amazon.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Want for it to be extra stupid. Amazon has owned Goodreads for almost a decade

lifg
Dec 4, 2000
<this tag left blank>
Muldoon
Didn’t Amazon just integrate Comixology into their main site after a decade of ownership?

I’m glad I canceled my Comixology Unlimited subscription, I really have a hard time browsing Amazon.

Gripweed
Nov 8, 2018

ASK ME ABOUT MY
UNITED STATES MARINES
FUNKO POPS COLLECTION



StrixNebulosa posted:

So for birthday reasons I've been putting together an amazon list of books, and... I am flabbergasted at how bad Amazon is at discoverability. I mean, I knew this, but it's so weird to me how they DON'T want you to find other products you might be interested in. There's no online experience of walking down a bookstore and seeing titles, no lists, nothing.

I know. Go poke goodreads or ask for recs or whatever, but it's annoying that I can't do it in amazon.

Amazon's search has been getting consistently worse for a while now. The algorithm they use for searches is godawful, you can put the exact title of a book in and it won't be on the first page of results, instead you'll get a bunch of ebooks with titles that share words with what you want. They are clearly trying to get you to buy ebooks and rent Prime movies so the results are always lousy with those. And now they have sponsored results so you'll get ads for unrelated products that share a keyword.

And sometimes it produces really weird poo poo, like recently when I've looked for movies the British region copy comes up higher in my search results than the American ones. I have never bought a British region movie, I have never been to Britain, I've never used a VPN that set my location to Britain, but somehow Amazon has become convinced that I want British blurays.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

I do not understand how someone can unironically believe that Hazel Shade is the author of Pale Fire. I'm sure I'm not the only one who did a reread when people started talking Nabokov again, but coming off that I go peek around to see what the intellectualists have been dreaming up. I get the obvious Botkin wrote it, I can even gently caress with the J.Shade theory, but when you start saying nonsense like Hazel did it, it becomes pretty hard to take you seriously. Granted I haven't actually read their arguments because I have somewhat a value on my time, but I don't think it would be persuasive at any rate. Really you might as well say Gradus scrawled the whole thing on his Cell walls to explain why he shot John, if he did.

Sarern
Nov 4, 2008

:toot:
Won't you take me to
Bomertown?
Won't you take me to
BONERTOWN?

:toot:

Gaius Marius posted:

I do not understand how someone can unironically believe that Hazel Shade is the author of Pale Fire. I'm sure I'm not the only one who did a reread when people started talking Nabokov again, but coming off that I go peek around to see what the intellectualists have been dreaming up. I get the obvious Botkin wrote it, I can even gently caress with the J.Shade theory, but when you start saying nonsense like Hazel did it, it becomes pretty hard to take you seriously. Granted I haven't actually read their arguments because I have somewhat a value on my time, but I don't think it would be persuasive at any rate. Really you might as well say Gradus scrawled the whole thing on his Cell walls to explain why he shot John, if he did.

I also can't see the Hazel thing and if anyone found their way there, I would love to see the path they took to get there.

Tree Goat
May 24, 2009

argania spinosa
hello, i will try to make the case for hazel

although it will be halfhearted, because i don't think the text strongly supports that reading (although it is a fun one to try to support post hoc) as per:
https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=0&threadid=3785652&pagenumber=1&perpage=40#post462937221
and also because it's been a while. i also don't have boyd's book on hand atm so i don't have his textual arguments available. i don't even remember what his final thesis even was, tbh (it was either a two-narrator case with hazel writing "pale fire" but kinbote existing in some form as a separate narrator that is "haunted" by hazel, or one-narrator case for hazel). i also note that he (seems to have?) recanted the hazel theory in later work, so i'm not certain if there are significant extent groups of "hazelians" left, as opposed to shadeans etc.

in any event, the argument i would make goes something like this:
1) nabokov is not above making subtle or otherwise easily overlooked "solutions" in his writing. so solutions of many particular potential complexities are in play
2) the structure and content of pale fire supports its reading as a puzzle box book: discovering the circumstances of shade's death and kinbote's life. the poem itself makes occasional self-descriptions of itself as a mystery. from his prior work, we know that nabokov himself was also not above using cryptic crossword levels of language games to provide clues for textual mysteries of this sort.
3) 1) and 2) together, combined with the lack of a strong textual case or academic consensus around the work, mean that looking further afield is not only permitted but perhaps even more likely to align with whatever nabokov's authorial intent was here. John Shade and Kinbote are "too easy" as answers for the intended author of the poem and so we have to look elsewhere (shades of Borges' "In a riddle whose answer is chess, what is the only prohibited word?").

so that's enough to at least get to "a wacky thesis about who is meant to have written either 'pale fire' the poem or kinbote's commentary is acceptable", and gives us some license to ignore or at least downplay the otherwise strong textual evidence that john shade is the poet.

for hazel specifically as narrator, we gotta go off of vibes though:
1) even ignoring kinbote's gloss, and the near-death experience referred to by "And one night I died.", the poem occasionally alludes to or at least supports a post-mortem writer. (it's "I was the shadow of the waxwing slain", after all).

canto 2 posted:

There was a time in my demented youth
When somehow I suspected that the truth
About survival after death was known
To every human being: I alone
Knew nothing, and a great conspiracy
Of books and people hid the truth from me.

There was the day when I began to doubt
Man's sanity: How could he live without
Knowing for sure what dawn, what death, what doom
Awaited consciousness beyond the tomb?

canto 2 posted:

What moment in the gradual decay
Does resurrection choose? What year? What day?
Who has the stopwatch? Who rewinds the tape?
Are some less lucky, or do all escape?
A syllogism: other men die; but I
Am not another; therefore I'll not die.
Space is a swarming in the eyes; and time
A singing in the ears. In this hive I'm
Locked up. Yet, if prior to life we had
Been able to imagine life, what mad,
Impossible, unutterably weird
Wonderful nonsense it might have appeared!

canto 3 posted:

The Institute assumed it might be wise
Not to expect too much of paradise:
What if there's nobody to say hullo
To the newcomer, no reception, no
Indoctrination? What if you are tossed
Into a boundless world, your bearings lost,
Your spirit stripped and utterly alone,
Your task unfinished, your despair unknown,
Your body just beginning to putresce,

canto 3 posted:

How not to panic when you're made a ghost:
Sidle and slide, choose a smooth surd, and coast,
Meet solid bodies and glissade right through,
Or let a person circulate through you.

2) hazel's ghost specifically appears several times as an image

canto 1 posted:

Pass through its shade where gently seems to sway
The phantom of my little daughter's swing.

canto 2 posted:

And I love you most
When with a pensive nod you greet her ghost

there's even an extended bit in canto three where shade denies the existence of his daughter's ghost while various noises recur:

canto 3 posted:

That tasteless venture helped me in a way.
I learnt what to ignore in my survey
Of death's abyss. And when we lost our child
I knew there would be nothing: no self-styled
Spirit would touch a keyboard of dry wood
To rap out her pet name; no phantom would
Rise gracefully to welcome you and me
In the dark garden, near the shagbark tree.

"What is that funny creaking--do you hear?"
"It is the shutter on the stairs, my dear."
with recurring noises over the next few stanzas while he and his wife play chess

3) there are several parts of the poem that "work" well if we assume hazel is at least in conversation with (or "haunting") the poet.
for instance: "She took her poor young life. I know. You know." the relatively simple rhyme scheme of the poem (remember the actual quality or intended quality of the poem itself is a matter of debate) would also fit well with hazel, who after all is shown to take after her father and whose only dialogue in the poem is to play games with language.

so that's how you would get to "there's something fishy going on, and hazel's ghost is involved". how you get from that to a fuller "solution" of the book i think requires some more spadework.

again, i think this is a hermeneutical parlor trick rather than a particular strong reading, but there you have it.

Tree Goat fucked around with this message at 01:51 on Jul 19, 2022

Sarern
Nov 4, 2008

:toot:
Won't you take me to
Bomertown?
Won't you take me to
BONERTOWN?

:toot:

Tree Goat posted:

hello, i will try to make the case for hazel

although it will be halfhearted, because i don't think the text strongly supports that reading (although it is a fun one to try to support post hoc) as per:
https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=0&threadid=3785652&pagenumber=1&perpage=40#post462937221
and also because it's been a while. i also don't have boyd's book on hand atm so i don't have his textual arguments available. i don't even remember what his final thesis even was, tbh (it was either a two-narrator case with hazel writing "pale fire" but kinbote existing in some form as a separate narrator that is "haunted" by hazel, or one-narrator case for hazel). i also note that he (seems to have?) recanted the hazel theory in later work, so i'm not certain if there are significant extent groups of "hazelians" left, as opposed to shadeans etc.

in any event, the argument i would make goes something like this:
1) nabokov is not above making subtle or otherwise easily overlooked "solutions" in his writing. so solutions of many particular potential complexities are in play
2) the structure and content of pale fire supports its reading as a puzzle box book: discovering the circumstances of shade's death and kinbote's life. the poem itself makes occasional self-descriptions of itself as a mystery. from his prior work, we know that nabokov himself was also not above using cryptic crossword levels of language games to provide clues for textual mysteries of this sort.
3) 1) and 2) together, combined with the lack of a strong textual case or academic consensus around the work, mean that looking further afield is not only permitted but perhaps even more likely to align with whatever nabokov's authorial intent was here. John Shade and Kinbote are "too easy" as answers for the intended author of the poem and so we have to look elsewhere (shades of Borges' "In a riddle whose answer is chess, what is the only prohibited word?").

so that's enough to at least get to "a wacky thesis about who is meant to have written either 'pale fire' the poem or kinbote's commentary is acceptable", and gives us some license to ignore or at least downplay the otherwise strong textual evidence that john shade is the poet.

for hazel specifically as narrator, we gotta go off of vibes though:
1) even ignoring kinbote's gloss, and the near-death experience referred to by "And one night I died.", the poem occasionally alludes to or at least supports a post-mortem writer. (it's "I was the shadow of the waxwing slain", after all).







2) hazel's ghost specifically appears several times as an image



there's even an extended bit in canto three there shade denies the existence of his daughter's ghost while various noises recurr:

with recurring noises over the next few stanzas while he and his wife play chess

3) there are several parts of the poem that "work" well if we assume hazel is at least in conversation with (or "haunting" the poet).
for instance: "She took her poor young life. I know. You know." the relatively simple rhyme scheme of the poem (remember the actual quality or intended quality of the poem itself is a matter of debate) would also fit well with hazel, who after all is shown to take after her father and whose only dialogue in the poem is to play games with language.

so that's how you would get to "there's something fishy going on, and hazel's ghost is involved". how you get from that to a fuller "solution" of the book i think requires some more spadework.

again, i think this is a hermeneutical parlor trick rather than a particular strong reading, but there you have it.

Thank you! It was great to read that. Also:

quote:

hermeneutical parlor trick
Is a phrase that really sticks in the memory. That would be an amazing username.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Tree Goat posted:

hello, i will try to make the case for hazel

although it will be halfhearted, because i don't think the text strongly supports that reading (although it is a fun one to try to support post hoc) as per:
https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=0&threadid=3785652&pagenumber=1&perpage=40#post462937221
and also because it's been a while. i also don't have boyd's book on hand atm so i don't have his textual arguments available. i don't even remember what his final thesis even was, tbh (it was either a two-narrator case with hazel writing "pale fire" but kinbote existing in some form as a separate narrator that is "haunted" by hazel, or one-narrator case for hazel). i also note that he (seems to have?) recanted the hazel theory in later work, so i'm not certain if there are significant extent groups of "hazelians" left, as opposed to shadeans etc.

in any event, the argument i would make goes something like this:
1) nabokov is not above making subtle or otherwise easily overlooked "solutions" in his writing. so solutions of many particular potential complexities are in play
2) the structure and content of pale fire supports its reading as a puzzle box book: discovering the circumstances of shade's death and kinbote's life. the poem itself makes occasional self-descriptions of itself as a mystery. from his prior work, we know that nabokov himself was also not above using cryptic crossword levels of language games to provide clues for textual mysteries of this sort.
3) 1) and 2) together, combined with the lack of a strong textual case or academic consensus around the work, mean that looking further afield is not only permitted but perhaps even more likely to align with whatever nabokov's authorial intent was here. John Shade and Kinbote are "too easy" as answers for the intended author of the poem and so we have to look elsewhere (shades of Borges' "In a riddle whose answer is chess, what is the only prohibited word?").

so that's enough to at least get to "a wacky thesis about who is meant to have written either 'pale fire' the poem or kinbote's commentary is acceptable", and gives us some license to ignore or at least downplay the otherwise strong textual evidence that john shade is the poet.

for hazel specifically as narrator, we gotta go off of vibes though:
1) even ignoring kinbote's gloss, and the near-death experience referred to by "And one night I died.", the poem occasionally alludes to or at least supports a post-mortem writer. (it's "I was the shadow of the waxwing slain", after all).







2) hazel's ghost specifically appears several times as an image



there's even an extended bit in canto three there shade denies the existence of his daughter's ghost while various noises recurr:

with recurring noises over the next few stanzas while he and his wife play chess

3) there are several parts of the poem that "work" well if we assume hazel is at least in conversation with (or "haunting" the poet).
for instance: "She took her poor young life. I know. You know." the relatively simple rhyme scheme of the poem (remember the actual quality or intended quality of the poem itself is a matter of debate) would also fit well with hazel, who after all is shown to take after her father and whose only dialogue in the poem is to play games with language.

so that's how you would get to "there's something fishy going on, and hazel's ghost is involved". how you get from that to a fuller "solution" of the book i think requires some more spadework.

again, i think this is a hermeneutical parlor trick rather than a particular strong reading, but there you have it.

The most damning thing about the theory to me is there's no why to it. There's no reason in the text for us to believe that Hazel would create Pale Fire the poem, and even less for her to create the gloss. Shade creating the poem is simply him trying to deal with the trauma of his daughter's suicide, and Botkin creating the gloss is a way for him to lionize the object of his unreturned affection, while also coyly slipping in his own megalomaniac delusions. Having that be the story is perfectly congruent with everything in the text, the quote unquote final secret being that Kinbote is really just Botkin.

I can entertain the idea that Shade wrote both the poem and the gloss though, imagine him working for so long on this poem dealing with his daughters suicide and realizing no matter how much emotion he pours into it it'll never reach the level of Frost. So he starts doing a fake gloss of it, he brings in this rich imagined life, he morphs his annoying neighbor/colleague into Kinbote an obsessive stalker, and creates this fiction of him being killed. Now his poem is ensconced inside this bizarre tale of false kings, assassinations, new criticism, daring escapes, beautiful princesses. He's turned it from a poignant but forgettable poem by a nobody to an object that demands study.

So both of those maintain a logic to the authorship, whereas the Hazel theory feels like someone throwing something out there that's insane just for attention. Then backing it up limply with some slight implications that maybe ghosts are real. It lacks any motivation

Tree Goat
May 24, 2009

argania spinosa
i mean i could confabulate some potential motivations/structures if you want (pale fire as an occurrence at owl creek bridge-style meditation from hazel as she works through her relationship with her father while engaging with a fantasy country of her own design, hazel as a lincoln in the bardo-style possessing figure attempting to give her father's work and death some ultimate meaning through her own unresolved emotions, hell, hazel as hamlet-style vengeful wraith trying to get her father's killer to admit to his deed and/or commit suicide through the maddening influence of poetry etc. etc.) but i don't think you would (or should) find them particularly compelling narrative structures. i would have to develop an almost megalomaniacal devotion to this particular reading outside of even a shred of textual support (there's an argument that boyd was doing a kinbote-style shtick in proposing it in the first place, for this reason). there's a reason it's not a popular (or even particularly credible) reading, merely a potentially interesting one.

honestly i would view the hazelites (if there are any unironic ones, which i'm not really sure of) as an emotional reaction to the text rather than a logical one, an urge to look for new readings (even in the midst of a book that is largely a satire of these readings). kinbote is too obviously a liar, and the reality/non-reality of his referents calls into doubt the reality/non-reality of other elements of the book. sort of like when you're watching a bad magician and you know to look everywhere except for where the magician is directing your attention. again, compare to humbert in lolita where you, over the course of the novel, figure out more or less exactly what kind of liar he is.

fwiw boyd cites nabokov's diary later to support more or less of what i think of as the "standard" reading (all is more or less as it seems: shade as poet, kinbote as botkin, botkin as commenter who commits suicide at the end of the book).

christ should i have been spoilering any of this. ah well. spoilers for pale fire i guess.

Tree Goat fucked around with this message at 02:26 on Jul 19, 2022

Antivehicular
Dec 30, 2011


I wanna sing one for the cars
That are right now headed silent down the highway
And it's dark and there is nobody driving And something has got to give

This discussion is making me want to reread Pale Fire, especially since I forgot Botkin existed (and the concept of Zembla being confabulated by a Russian expatriate instead of an American is kind of interesting, even above and beyond the fact that it was obviously written by a Russian expatriate in the real world).

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

You should absolutely reread it. Everyonce in a while I start thinking that there's a lot of peeps who've got some good prose goin', then I read some Nabokov and realize they're all loving amateurs who need to get the gently caress out

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Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



what the hell is up with the books iphone app

itll "reset" once in a while and just throw my books in random order (ie sorting by recent will absolutely not be in the order i got/read them). i guess just lovely icloud syncing that forgets dates??

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