|
Yeah, but look how much work went into shoehorning that 2JZ in: http://youtu.be/Q6-8Naqbqkk
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2012 08:32
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 29, 2024 14:10 |
|
|
discstickers posted:Renton Subaru has a Blue Premium with no markup. If it was a Limited I would have bought it on the spot and cancelled my ST I have on order. Wow -- did you not need the extra utility from the four doors & hatch, or is the BRZ that good?
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2012 22:11
|
|
|
It's this kinda bullshit that is making me wait on buying or even visiting dealerships still the hype dies down. Fatal fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Jul 30, 2012 |
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2012 22:45
|
|
|
Fatal posted:It's this kinda bullshit that is making me wait on buying or even visiting dealerships still the hype dies down. Sure, it's a niche market, but it's clearly a large niche that is happy to buy the cars.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2012 22:54
|
|
|
I got told at the local Subaru dealership that test-driving one was out of the question, and that the waiting list was 6 months long. If I wanted I could leave a deposit with them and they'd call me when mine comes in and give me the option to buy it at that point after a test drive.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2012 22:59
|
|
|
Kenshin posted:It's also this kind of bullshit that makes me wonder why in the gently caress other car manufacturers haven't jumped on this sort of thing (relatively inexpensive RWD coupe). Does the development process get expensive for these companies that haven't produced small RWD cars in years? I don't know much about auto engineering, but I'd figure it would be cheaper for them to design sporty versions of the small hatchbacks they've already been producing in large numbers, to almost the same group of people that would buy something like a BRZ.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2012 23:11
|
|
|
Fortuitous Bumble posted:Does the development process get expensive for these companies that haven't produced small RWD cars in years? I don't know much about auto engineering, but I'd figure it would be cheaper for them to design sporty versions of the small hatchbacks they've already been producing in large numbers, to almost the same group of people that would buy something like a BRZ. I imagine its not simple to take a FWD hatch, and make it into a RWD hatch. Adding a transmission tunnel probably significantly changes the body and frame. Moving and rotating the engine changes the mounts and supports. The rear suspension probably needs to be redesigned so that you can get a diff and drive axles back there. After all of that, the weight has been shifted all about, so the handling probably needs to be tuned again. I assume it would be easier to just design from the ground up as too much would change, and not enough work could transfer over to make the conversion effort worth it. I also assume some Ford engineer will come in and tell me I'm completely wrong.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2012 23:24
|
|
|
Seat Safety Switch posted:I got told at the local Subaru dealership that test-driving one was out of the question, and that the waiting list was 6 months long. If I wanted I could leave a deposit with them and they'd call me when mine comes in and give me the option to buy it at that point after a test drive. This is one of the reasons why I decided to go with the FR-S over the BRZ. There are more of them available and "exclusivity" isn't worth the hassle for me even with a slightly better options list. The Subaru dealers here all suck and don't stock fun cars anyway. I've driven the FR-S at a couple of different dealerships than the one I have my deposit down at without any kind of hassle at all. I'd have had the car a month ago if I'd been ready to pull the trigger before now. I'm finally ready and plan on going to my dealer tomorrow to see what's going on. They had a hot lava MT coming in soon that wasn't spoken for but I'm not sure if I want that color. I plan on sticking with them since they've been cool and didn't continually hassle me when I told them it'd be a couple of months before I'd be ready to buy when I put my deposit down. Hell, the only time they called was when they had a car that wasn't spoken for coming in to see if I wanted it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2012 23:26
|
|
|
Brigdh posted:I imagine its not simple to take a FWD hatch, and make it into a RWD hatch. Adding a transmission tunnel probably significantly changes the body and frame. Moving and rotating the engine changes the mounts and supports. The rear suspension probably needs to be redesigned so that you can get a diff and drive axles back there. After all of that, the weight has been shifted all about, so the handling probably needs to be tuned again. In a way, this is just what Subaru did when they designed the BRZ. It's a heavily modified Impreza platform with a decent amount of parts sharing. Since Subaru uses an AWD platform where a significant amount of power can be sent to the real diff, it wasn't quite as difficult as it would be in other cases, not totally unlike the homebrew RWD swaps people do on them.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2012 23:32
|
|
|
Brigdh posted:I imagine its not simple to take a FWD hatch, and make it into a RWD hatch. Adding a transmission tunnel probably significantly changes the body and frame. Moving and rotating the engine changes the mounts and supports. The rear suspension probably needs to be redesigned so that you can get a diff and drive axles back there. After all of that, the weight has been shifted all about, so the handling probably needs to be tuned again. I was thinking more along the lines of the Focus ST or Turbo Veloster or MS3 or whatever else they have right now, if you're already selling huge numbers of the slow trim versions and can modify them to sell to a niche market that wants a cheap sporty car without having to redesign the entire drivetrain etc. Obviously those are pretty different cars functionally from a small RWD coupe but that doesn't necessarily mean it's not the same target market that's buying them.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2012 23:37
|
|
|
Fortuitous Bumble posted:I was thinking more along the lines of the Focus ST or Turbo Veloster or MS3 or whatever else they have right now, if you're already selling huge numbers of the slow trim versions and can modify them to sell to a niche market that wants a cheap sporty car without having to redesign the entire drivetrain etc. Obviously those are pretty different cars functionally from a small RWD coupe but that doesn't necessarily mean it's not the same target market that's buying them. Ah. Nearly every Marque I'm familiar with has their own in-house tuning division. Mazdaspeed is Mazda's, Toyota has TRD (Toyota racing development). I forget what Ford has. Brabus is Mercedes-Benz if I'm remembering right. Honda has HPD, ..... Mostly they make non-factory performance parts for whatever model happens to be raced at the time. TRD has a supercharger kit for the FR-S, a lot of stuff is coming out for the Mazda2 thanks to Group B. Every once and a while they get to take a crack at making a performance vehicle, and you get the Mazdaspeed3, etc.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2012 23:56
|
|
|
Brigdh posted:I forget what Ford has. Brabus is Mercedes-Benz if I'm remembering right. One unrelated thing I just thought of -- it makes sense to buy an FRS/BRZ in one of the shared colors (not Hot Lava or WRB) since you'll have a larger pool of available body panels in the right color when you inevitably drift it into a telephone pole. This seems especially true for the WRB BRZ since I imagine there will be less of those than the FRS.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2012 01:07
|
|
|
Hog Obituary posted:SVT and AMG? (though I'm not sure if AMG makes aftermarket parts) The problem there is that WRB is the best color so you have to get it 
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2012 01:29
|
|
|
Hog Obituary posted:SVT and AMG? (though I'm not sure if AMG makes aftermarket parts) It's AMG. Brabus is a separate company, AMG is owned by MB.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2012 03:16
|
|
|
discstickers posted:Renton Subaru has a Blue Premium with no markup. If it was a Limited I would have bought it on the spot and cancelled my ST I have on order. If you end up getting a BRZ you've got to give me a ride  I still haven't been able to test drive an FRS or BRZ, but I've also been busy with work so I haven't had many chances to try. Regarding the market adjustment, I know a lot of dick dealers like Carter are pulling that poo poo, but I think if you ask around some aren't. Supposedly one of the first guys to get his BRZ from Renton got it for 400 under MSRP. At this point I'm interested in one, but don't really want to pay MSRP. My plan is to offer under and basically say "I'll just keep asking around for other dealers for the next few months and whomever says yes first will get my sale".
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2012 05:54
|
|
|
Lots of triangles posted:Wow -- did you not need the extra utility from the four doors & hatch, or is the BRZ that good? It was pretty good. I haven't driven the ST and I have no idea when it'll come in. I got the ST3 package which has been delayed. I don't need the utility.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2012 06:35
|
|
|
Mat_Drinks posted:If you end up getting a BRZ you've got to give me a ride Wait Carter in Seattle is pulling that poo poo? I called several months ago and they told me they only had four out of their lot of twenty but that they were selling at MSRP. Did they change or are you thinking of someone else in the area?
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2012 13:32
|
|
|
Kenshin posted:It's also this kind of bullshit that makes me wonder why in the gently caress other car manufacturers haven't jumped on this sort of thing (relatively inexpensive RWD coupe). We'll see, but I can definitely understand OEMs being wary of entering a market where the top sellers have moved perhaps 20K units, maximum, in any given sales year, especially given the requirements for most OEMs to design a small RWD platform from the ground up. I'm not totally convinced that Subaru and Toyota are going to make all that much money on this car in the first place. Year 1 is always a nice sales year, especially with sporty cars.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2012 14:20
|
|
|
KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I'm not totally convinced that Subaru and Toyota are going to make all that much money on this car in the first place. Year 1 is always a nice sales year, especially with sporty cars. I think by year 3 sales will be pretty flat on these. The people that wanted one new will have them and the people that can't afford a new one will have more choices on the used market. I'm guessing less than half of first year sales at that point.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2012 16:09
|
|
|
An introduction of a factory turbo model would help sales 
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2012 17:00
|
|
|
fknlo posted:I think by year 3 sales will be pretty flat on these. The people that wanted one new will have them and the people that can't afford a new one will have more choices on the used market. I'm guessing less than half of first year sales at that point. What prevents other car models from following this path?
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2012 18:15
|
|
|
Hog Obituary posted:SVT and AMG? (though I'm not sure if AMG makes aftermarket parts)
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2012 18:31
|
|
|
Sockington posted:An introduction of a factory turbo model would help sales Didn't save the Solstice!  Yes, I know GM going bankrupt is what killed the Solstice. Partly. Its platform was also a dead-end and exorbitantly expensive to manufacture, to the point where GM was losing a fair chunk of change on every unit sold. So hopefully the BRZ/FS-S/GT86 won't share the same fate. I just wanted to make that wise-crack.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2012 18:42
|
|
|
Solkanar512 posted:What prevents other car models from following this path? They all do, but some cars are established and volume enough that they're sitting at the steady state rate.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2012 19:40
|
|
|
Looks like I'll be test driving a BRZ tonight. I see the Car and Driver review says "and average/short adult might be happy in the back for short trips. A friend of mine is interested in the car as well and wants to come along, but at 6' ~180lbs he's not sure whether this means it'll be a bit tight like the back of a MN12 Thunderbird or completely unusable like the back of a Genesis Coupe. Any input from those who own or have driven one?
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2012 20:08
|
|
|
wolrah posted:I see the Car and Driver review says "and average/short adult might be happy in the back for short trips. A friend of mine is interested in the car as well and wants to come along, but at 6' ~180lbs he's not sure whether this means it'll be a bit tight like the back of a MN12 Thunderbird or completely unusable like the back of a Genesis Coupe.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2012 20:15
|
|
|
The FR-S has been confirmed to be in the August car pack for Forza Motorsport 4, for those of you who have an Xbox 360.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2012 20:17
|
|
|
At least in the GenCoupe the problem was actually headroom. When sitting in the back seat the rear glass was so low that I had to cock my head over at least 45 degrees. How is it from that perspective?
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2012 20:18
|
|
|
wolrah posted:Looks like I'll be test driving a BRZ tonight. People can fit in the back seat if the front seat is pushed up pretty far. With my seating position, no one fits behind the driver's seat, but if you have a passenger under 5'10“ someone could fit behind them at the expense of the front seat's leg room.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2012 20:22
|
|
|
Ugh, happened to be at a Subaru dealer and they have a white limited with no mark up. Debating whether it's worth the money, the interior is pretty nice compared to the fr-s. Just not sure if the better options are worth 3500 more.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2012 20:30
|
|
|
Kenshin posted:The FR-S has been confirmed to be in the August car pack for Forza Motorsport 4, for those of you who have an Xbox 360. Finally!
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2012 20:48
|
|
|
Just got back from Brunswick Subaru where I got lucky enough that the salesman was busy and allowed me to take a solo test drive in a WRB BRZ Premium 6MT. This let me stay out a bit longer than a usual drive and of course push it a bit harder. That said, I didn't push too hard, traction control stayed on and speeds didn't top 90 (and even that was on a quick highway jaunt, not back roads). First, the back seat question from above. The headroom is much better than the GenCoupe. My hair grazes the glass, but that's what I expect in a small 2+2. With the driver's seat in a position that worked for me, there was literally zero leg room behind it. If I positioned the passenger seat where my knees would be barely not touching the dash, my knees in the back would have been lightly pushed in to the back of the seat. Not great, but again acceptable for a small 2+2. Unfortunately, to actually fit, my feet would have to be able to go under the seat. Maybe it's because I wear steel-toe boots, but that was not happening. I think I could have fit barefoot or with thin shoes/sandals, but I'm not sure if any footwear I currently own would have worked. Now, this car isn't about the back seat, so let's move on. The engine was great. Good sound, good power, revved smoothly. The clutch was a bit tricky. Long pedal throw but a short bite range. My boots clearly aren't driving shoes, but compared to my E46 I was having to launch more by ear than by feel. A well-designed clutch stop would really help if possible (I know some cars have lovely clutch switches that make it impossible to start the car with a stop set at a good level). The transmission had shortest factory throw I've ever operated. I think it may have even been shorter than my old Probe with an aftermarket short shifter. Close ratios, felt smooth, never had any trouble finding the gear I wanted. I'm not a pro driver so I can't comment on the exact factors in play, but overall the handling of the car was by far the closest to a go-kart I've ever driven on the road. It felt like what I'd expect an Elise to drive like, the car just did exactly what I wanted it to with no unpredictability, even on the stock tires. No perceptible body roll at all, coming off the highway on to a county road at 65 it just went around the corner on rails. I can only imagine what it would be like with a set of high-performance tires, as they made a world of difference on my BMW. Unfortunately the back seats' complete uselessness means this could not be my only car. Had they been even remotely usable, I'd possibly be signing the papers right now. As it stands however, in a few months when my E46 is paid off there is a very strong chance I will be ordering a BRZ Limited. I was considering the Scions equally, but WRB looks so good that I think I have to go Subaru. tl;dr: Useless back seats as sort of expected, but WOW in every other way. I want this car. wolrah fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Aug 1, 2012 |
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2012 00:48
|
|
|
wolrah posted:With the driver's seat in a position that worked for me, there was literally zero leg room behind it. quote:The transmission had shortest factory throw I've ever operated. I think it may have even been shorter than my old Probe with an aftermarket short shifter. Close ratios, felt smooth, never had any trouble finding the gear I wanted.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2012 04:09
|
|
|
Welp, I put down a deposit for a BRZ Limited in Galaxy Blue Silica. No ETA, but the salesman said September was likely. Someone ordered it then took over someone else's order.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2012 04:15
|
|
|
kimbo305 posted:That sucks. I guess there's another perk to my liking to sit really close to the wheel and pedals. I like to sit close to the wheel too, but I have long legs so the pedals are usually my limiting factor. On another interior-related note, the seats are really deep and well bolstered, but that also meant on my 190lb rear end they were best described as snug. Not uncomfortable mind you, I actually preferred them to my E46 (though the non-sport "leatherette" seats aren't exactly great in any way), just comfortably snug. It felt right for the car and was probably a major factor in how connected I felt as a driver. quote:How does it compare to an S2000? The closest I've been to a S2K is drooling on a CR at my local dealer a few years back, so I can't help you there.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2012 04:18
|
|
|
Stillen is holding a contest for a fully sick body kit for the FR-S: http://www.stillen.com/frscontest/
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2012 05:29
|
|
|
Is it just me, or does the prize for winning that contest seem kinda lovely?
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2012 05:48
|
|
|
Q_res posted:Is it just me, or does the prize for winning that contest seem kinda lovely? Yeah, in the end you'd still have to pay for the body kit you designed if you wanted it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2012 05:54
|
|
|
It seems, very cynically speaking, a totally self-serving crowd-sourced trick by Stillen.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2012 06:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 29, 2024 14:10 |
|
|
Solkanar512 posted:Wait Carter in Seattle is pulling that poo poo? I called several months ago and they told me they only had four out of their lot of twenty but that they were selling at MSRP. Did they change or are you thinking of someone else in the area? I heard Carter was doing it as recently as month ago, but maybe it has changed. I've actually given them a chance at selling me a car twice in the past and each time they've basically been huge dicks. And I'm not hard to sell a car too or in any way an unreasonable negotiator. I've started moving my current car (MkV R32) back to stock in anticipation of likely ordering a BRZ at some point. The main question will be when I can get them to go a bit under MSRP as I know that happened for a few of the early orders in the area.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2012 06:23
|
|