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Good discussion so far but before it gets there (and it will), let's avoid saying Nintendo should go third party or start making games for other platforms, because they never will.
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May 16, 2013 22:03
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WendigoJohnson posted:But Nintendo did at least publish a few things way long ago on other platforms: C'mooooon, you guys know what's meant: Nintendo will never publish their streamlined, Nintendo-only console games on competitor's machines, they'd rather go down in flames. Even bringing it up now, especially this generation, is dumb to talk about.
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May 17, 2013 00:56
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waffle posted:That's not an ideal situation, but I think it's possible if you include a capacitative stylus. If that's the case, a new controller should be functionally the same as the current controller (except more precise). Yeah, at the least the gamepad should've had two points of contact. As it stands it just seems like outdated tech and limiting compared to tablets and smartphones. The WiiU is not very futureproofed, which is one of my main issues with it.
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May 18, 2013 22:11
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Crowbear posted:They're right in the middle of a push to get developers to port their mobile apps to the Wii U, and not having multitouch is going to rule out a bunch of them. Yup, the RAM is the main one for me too. Yes, while 2 GB may kiiiiiinda seem good, when you consider the sluggish OS hogs 1 GB at all times, you're pretty limited in what you can do and now you've included an unnecessary hurdle for developers with the intent of saving money. Horribly shortsighted and I feel it's already coming back to bite them in the rear end.
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May 18, 2013 22:20
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OLIVIAS WILDE RIDER posted:The ram is also amazingly slow compared to the PS3/360. Which is strange, hasn't Nintendo included fairly fast ram in their past consoles, or at least made it so the console is efficient with what it has?
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May 18, 2013 22:26
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I said come in! posted:For me, Nintendo needs to do original, new, exciting I.P.'s. I'm tired of seeing the same games from them over and over again, with nothing new happening. Right now all of the games they have coming out or are in development, are sequels or remakes of classic SNES games. Even though Zelda: A Link to the Past is one of my favorite Nintendo games, I couldn't have been more underwhelmed if I tried at the announcement of the remastered version for the 3DS. I know Nintendo can do better then this. This is from a couple pages back but I think it's important to bring up that Nintendo does actually release a decent number of original games, but some don't come to the US or at least needed a huge kick to do so: Xenoblade, Denpa Men, Crashmo, Western Dixon, Steel Rider, Pandora's Tower, Ouendan.. and others I can't think of. You're just not paying attention.
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May 19, 2013 04:54
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I said come in! posted:If i'm not seeing them, that's Nintendo's problem, not mine. Cool, thanks. My point is that they are releasing original IPs that are new and exciting, which is the point you brought up. Also, as an aside, the Link to the Past sequel on the 3DS is a completely standalone game that just takes place in the same world and isn't remastered. While you can feign a little ignorance due to Nintendo's inability to market their poo poo at least remotely adequately, that doesn't mean they aren't releasing new poo poo. They just blooooow at messaging though occasionally get lucky when the quality of the game propels it's popularity (Pushmo).
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May 19, 2013 05:20
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NESguerilla posted:Am I misunderstanding you or are you saying you think it's unreasonable to charge people for digital versions of SNES games they may have bought 20 years ago? I think he's referring to Nintendo's lack of a centralized account, where if you bought the game in the past that you couldn't carry that over to a newer console since your purchase is tied to the system and not an account. It's really dumb.
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May 19, 2013 06:29
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Let's drop the stupid LP debate going on here, it's adding nothing to the thread. Points have been made, people can base their opinion on what's been brought up so far. Let's try to keep discussion to the WiiU.
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May 19, 2013 16:39
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OLIVIAS WILDE RIDER posted:The system was released on November 18, 2012 in North America, November 30, 2012 in Europe and Australia, and on December 8, 2012 in Japan. Uhh can't you read? Nintendo is having it's Christmas in 5 months. IT'S. That's like.. really good numbers and things right there. Deal with it.
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Jun 4, 2013 14:11
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Alteisen posted:Didn't all the Capcom 5 games wind up on other consoles? They also canceled 1 one of them if I'm not mistaken. All but the P90x or whatever that game was. RE4, Killer7, and Viewtiul Joe all came out on other platforms and Dead Phoenix was cancelled.
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Jun 19, 2013 06:47
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Considering how poorly DQX did as an MMO and it having just as much of a brand recognition as Pokemon, I wouldn't risk creating a Pokemon MMO game due to the inherit financial risk and drain on resources it would need to keep things running smoothly. If anything, Nintendo should move to release a separate Pokemon game on the WiiU with some sort of online competitions where you can upload your Pokemon from your 3DS.
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Jul 17, 2013 23:23
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bushisms.txt posted:The point is, everyone crying for more games, from third party and themselves flies in the face of evidence that that's not what sells a Nintendo system. What sells it is the uniqueness of the hardware, as evidence of the failure of the GC to the rise of the WII which was a gamecube and a half in terms of graphical output. I honestly think you have it backwards: Software sells hardware. Your console can be the most unique butterfly ever made but if it lacks any compelling software, then it'll go nowhere. The best current example is the 3DS and Vita. The WiiU is failing for a multitude of reasons, the most obvious is lack of compelling and consistent software releases, with 3rd party ports already accessible via a different install base (360/PS3). There are other reasons too, like not being able to differentiate the difference between it and the Wii, but the Golden Rule for Everything Gaming is that software sells hardware, period.
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Jul 18, 2013 19:42
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Bovineicide posted:Because it's not a new Mario game. We already played it on the 3DS. This is what I'm talking about when I say that Nintendo's been focusing on the quick, easy to poo poo out games as opposed to something genuinely new. Yes, games like that have high attach rates, but they don't move consoles. On the contrary, they do move consoles so you're flat wrong there, regardless of how unintuitive or genre breaking the game may be. I'm with you 100% on it being more or less a rehashing and melding of past ideas but they absolutely do move consoles.
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Jul 30, 2013 19:29
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Bovineicide posted:Do you see it moving consoles against the PS4 and XB1 launches, though? You're moving the goalposts now: you said they don't move consoles but what you meant to say was they won't move consoles in as high number in lieu of impending competition, which is a completely different statement. To answer your question, yes, I see it moving consoles BUT not in as high numbers as Nintendo would hope due to more than just a lack of games. There's a lack of a cohesive and focused advertisement campaign, the price is still too high, there's consumer confusion between the Wii and WiiU (like there was with the DS and 3DS), and a lack of consistent and compelling software. I think it'll do much better in Japan due to the XBone having little to no presence but it absolutely will not drive the install base as high as Nintendo hopes due to the other issues I mentioned.
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Jul 30, 2013 19:56
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Bovineicide posted:edit: even then, I don't think the PSP really gave it a run for its money outside of Japan, did it? Oh it absolutely did. The DS looked DOA for the first year compared to the PSP but then the DS began to get games that moved the hardware and tapped into the 'casual' audience the same way the Wii did. For all intents and purposes, the DS floundered as much as the WiiU is in its first year.
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Jul 30, 2013 20:00
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ImpAtom posted:I specifically remember wanting to sell my DS for a PSP because what I was playing was like... Mario 64 for ages. It was actually Nintendogs and Brain Training that saved the system if I recall. I think Kirby Canvas Curse and Warioware were the first true, unique games that showcased the potential of the system. Brain Age, Nintendogs and NSMB were absolute monsters in driving the IB and opened the way for Mario Kart, Animal Crossing and the like. quote:If you mean hardcore gamers, they probably won't. I think the best Nintendo can do there is push to be considered the #1 second system, so that someone is more likely to buy a WiiU after their PS4/X-Box One/PC Upgrade than they are to buy the alternate system. To do that they need games (and probably a price cut) but it's not a terrible position if they can manage it. They have absolutely no chance at being #1 unless something completely unforseen happens and they create the next Pokemon. So basically they're back to Gamecube era practices due to their attempt to appeal more to the "hardcore" gamer, which they've failed at doing so far. Really they should've stuck with a new Wii Sports/NSMBU launch combo followed up closely by Wii Fit U and Wii Party U with a massive marketing campaign. I know, Nintendo Armchair Analyst blah blah blah but they had an opportune roadmap of what does and doesn't work.
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Jul 30, 2013 20:37
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Cable posted:Could you please explain this? Actually, let's divert that discussion to the XBone thread, not here. e: Assuming you're wanting clarification on MS's strategy. Louisgod fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Jul 30, 2013 |
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Jul 30, 2013 22:22
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Fulchrum posted:Yes, and NSMBU already moved the consoles. You're telling me there's this vast array of Mario fans who despise the 2D games, but absolutely adore and will instantly buy the 2.5D game? Hmm, you're right, 3D Land in no way attracted customers and sold over 8 million copies worldwide. Nope, not at all. But yeah, you can put words in my mouth about how I said there's a "vast array of Mario fans who despite 2D", you can say that, why not. As I already said, the WiiU has more problems than just a lack of software.
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Jul 30, 2013 23:39
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Fulchrum posted:Was 3D land the first or the second Mario platformer on the 3Ds? Is Mario 3D Land WiiU the first or the second on the WiiU? I don't know, you should have access to google like I do, unless you have an underlying question you're not asking or point you're trying to make.
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Jul 30, 2013 23:50
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Fulchrum posted:So now, the people who would buy a WiiU just for a.Mario game, have. So what is this group of people who hate 2D Mario games (hence why they didn't buy it for NSMBU) but love 2.5D Mario games (hence why they will buy a WiiU for the new game)? You're making some great leaps of logic by dumbing down the buying practices of consumers but I understand your general point: What would drive a consumer to buy a WiiU for a Mario game when they already have one in NSBMU and what makes 3D World a differentiator for potential buyers. You phrased it pretty poorly. I more or less already answered that question here: Louisgod posted:To answer your question, yes, I see it moving consoles BUT not in as high numbers as Nintendo would hope due to more than just a lack of games. There's a lack of a cohesive and focused advertisement campaign, the price is still too high, there's consumer confusion between the Wii and WiiU (like there was with the DS and 3DS), and a lack of consistent and compelling software. I think it'll do much better in Japan due to the XBone having little to no presence but it absolutely will not drive the install base as high as Nintendo hopes due to the other issues I mentioned. But to answer it directly, a new 3D or 2.5D Mario game won't exclusively drive sales when they have other issues to deal with. If anything, the 2D/2.5D Mario games sell better than their 3D brethren but I have no idea if people buy the console JUST for a 3D Mario game (I'm sure there are people that do).
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Jul 31, 2013 00:34
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petrol blue posted:As an occaisional gamer (My parent's bought me a wii a few years back for christmas, I play a few PC games), my take is that the Wii U's biggest problem is the Wii - Nintendo aren't trying to compete with Sony/Microsoft, but they're still in exactly the same market position as the Wii was. Rather than worrying about Battlefield FPS Whatever, the U has to compete with Pikmin 2, NSMB, Mario Galaxy 1/2, 2 Zelda games, and so on, all available at about half the price of the 'latest' versions. It's worth mentioning if you're not aware, but the WiiU plays Wii games, which is another aspect Nintendo has done a poor job of advertising. I agree though that the WiiU's biggest problem is the Wii but for different reasons, a big one being that consumers are already satisfied with their "want" via the Wii and don't see the difference or haven't been sold on why they "need" the WiiU.
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Jul 31, 2013 00:51
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greatn posted:When I bought my 3DS and saw it had the same basic interface I was prepared for the worst, but I was absolutely shocked at how snappy and responsive everything was. I have no idea how or why the WiiU operating system its so slow. And for the love of god add folders. My software is splayed out over like four pages. It's slow because Nintendo probably rushed it and sucks at coding. There should be enough RAM in place to keep things peppy (as the recent OS patch shows) but it makes you ask what the hell they were doing with all the extra time they had.
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Jul 31, 2013 18:41
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:Especially when Sony is in its fourth year of losses and Nintendo is experiencing its first loss in the history of the company. Not sure if you saw but their Q1 earnings report from today detailed that they were profitable despite the poor WiiU sales, so they're not currently experiencing the continued decline in profit they saw prior. bushisms.txt posted:They were realizing there was no actual "switch to HD" button. Yeah, from what they've said, it sounds like they didn't anticipate how much work it would be to transition from SD to HD since they had to bring in 3rd party consultation. Really they should offset as many of their IPs to other devs like Capcom and Sega so they can pump out as much software as possible. God knows they can afford it. Louisgod fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Jul 31, 2013 |
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Jul 31, 2013 18:50
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OLIVIAS WILDE RIDER posted:Yeah but that was early on, at this point there's literally no way you're going to convince any 3rd party to spend any amount of extra time and money on a WiiU port, which is going to continue the rapid decline in 3rd party support of even the most bare-bones, outsourced ports. The only way is for Nintendo to supplement or subsidize 3rd party projects ala Platinum or buy up companies like Atlus and build up in-house IPs and pump out software. Again, they can afford it, they have a metric fuckton of money they need to spend.
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Aug 1, 2013 23:04
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Toady posted:I'd get a Wii U for myself if there was a must-have game. I admit, though, that I haven't been interested in a Mario Kart or Zelda game in a long time. A good Metroid game might do it, but I think I'd also wish it was for the 3DS instead. Speaking of, I wonder how the new Smash Bros games will fragment sales. It's a pretty big no brained that people won't buy the WiiU version if the 3DS version is virtually the same game and doesn't serve as a mode of transport for the WiiU data.
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Aug 3, 2013 06:37
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Changed the thread title to curb the Dreamcast discussion.
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Aug 3, 2013 14:21
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waffle posted:Yeah, now that you mention it, I do think this is Nintendo's best path to relevance, and good for gamers as a whole. I'd much rather see the dev studios I like get bought out by Nintendo than EA/Ubi/etc. Atlus is a particularly good example because they could probably be acquired on the cheap, what with their parent company going bankrupt and all. Too bad Nintendo doesn't seem willing to spend their big piles of money. That and Atlus is pretty friendly toward Nintendo already so it's a bit of a no brainer. They just need to pull a Microsoft and invest a ton of money in the short term and make it up later. Still though, RPGs and the like tend to be niche titles and don't build the userbase as quickly and as much as they need. They really, really missed the boat by not releasing Wii Sports U on day one.
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Aug 3, 2013 18:25
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fivegears4reverse posted:I'm just not seeing this. I've seen it said by multiple posters, and I just don't see it. Not because I think Wii Sports sucked or anything (I think you'd have to be going out of your way to actively dislike it), I just don't think a Wii Sports on the Wii U would have been the same hit. Mostly due to the GamePad not having the same inherent 'otherness' that Motion Controls had on day one. The Wii U isn't pushing motion controls as a thing quite like the Wii did, so a Wii Sports title wouldn't quite have the same effect. I never once said that Wii Sports U would've been a saving grace but I more or less agree with you on all points. I think the console would be in a bit better shape if they released both Nintendoland and Sports U on launch but as I've noted before, the console has a LOT more problems than not having that "magic game". It's pretty obvious Nintendoland was supposed to replace Sports U.
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Aug 3, 2013 22:46
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Fulchrum posted:Saying Nintendoland is a new IP is like saying a clip show is a new episode. The rides were all based of an existing IP, so its an IP made up of the pasted-together scraps of a bunch of other IPs. This is an extraordinarily stupid post, congrats. Despite your justification, Nintendoland is a new intellectual property. By your dumb logic, Wii Sports is nothing more than pasted-together scraps since it contains sports found in other games and in real life. Either post something worth discussing or just stop.
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Aug 4, 2013 06:39
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Sir John Feelgood posted:http://www.dualshockers.com/2013/08/04/nintendo-and-the-wii-u-may-be-in-trouble-due-to-closure-of-vital-semiconductor-factory/ It's okay, the inventory in stores now should last 5 years.
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Aug 4, 2013 17:57
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greatn posted:I think I remember reading somewhere the Gamepad actually costs them like $150 or something. Yes, the gamepad currently costs them quite a bit to manufacture and Nintendo is historically not willing to take a loss on the hardware, which is part of the reason they chose not to sell them separately. That, and if they sold them separately they'd 1) be expensive, and 2) add to MORE consumer confusion as people will buy the gamepad thinking it's compatible with their Wii and be pissed when they find it isn't. If they released the console without the gamepad then they'd be segmenting their install base and basically have to develop games to not use the gamepad. They had the same situation with the 3DS with releasing the second analogue stick and chose not to include a second one on the XL since it'd also be segmenting their userbase.
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Aug 5, 2013 17:38
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flyboi posted:people are idiots and wii/wii u aren't the real reason as to the wii u problem Bullshit, you can't blame the consumer for the confusion they're having with the console. Nintendo has done a horrid job of differentiating the WiiU from the Wii in their advertising and.. really, everything they do. I'd like to say that hindisght is 20/20 but in Nintendo's case, foresight is 20/20 and hindsight is 30/20. I know it's easy as gamers for us to be conceited about what a company should have done but god drat, it's pretty easy to see where Nintendo went wrong, even before the console was released.
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Aug 9, 2013 16:18
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fivegears4reverse posted:Nintendo said that HD wasn't going to be important; All your other points aside, this isn't correct: Miyamoto said recently he wanted to include HD in the Wii but the install base of HD compared to SD was low and they didn't think the transition from SD to HD would be as quick as it was, which they said was due to the cheap prices of HD televisions. Regardless, they had the foresight to see HD would be important but made a judgement call probably based on what Japan owned at the time. That, and if I remember, they tried to get HD running on the Wii but it overheated the system due to the size and it would've increased the price.
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Aug 9, 2013 17:37
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Imagined posted:Maybe you should let EA know about that. Regardless of your semantics, the WiiU is technically part of the "new" generation, just like how the Wii was part of the last. Doesn't change the fact that it's floundering though.
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Aug 9, 2013 17:42
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flyboi posted:To back up the fact that Nintendo had this kind of foresight but terrible execution the Gamecube digital AV port actually has 3D capabilities as well as digital 5.1 surround but it was never implemented. I'm going to bet the lack of adoption of component on Gamecube played a big role in Nintendo's choice of not going HD on the Wii. Didn't they go with Pro Logic 2 instead of 5.1 to avoid royalty fees or something? Also, it's possible they included the capability to do 3D on the Gamecube because it was cost effective and to have just in case but who knows, but HD on the Wii would've had a significant cost impact along with having to redesign the hardware.
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Aug 9, 2013 18:09
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Quest For Glory II posted:In all seriousness, I think that Wii U could have survived off of saving money on components IF THEY DIDN'T GO WITH THE GAMEPAD. If they left the specs the way they were, but launched the system with a different name, and packaged it with redesigned Wiimotes, I think it would have done a lot better. A LOT better. They could have priced it at $199/$250 and made a profit per unit (the Gamepad costs $80 per unit to manufacture, according to CNN Money). It's pretty easy to see their thinking though with regard to the gamepad, especially when you consider how tablets have more or less become the forefront for living room entertainment, so trying to push the gamepad as both a pseudo tablet and device people use for their console gaming was a smart move was sunk to poor execution, poor advertising and brand confusion. Oh, and lack of software. I think their intent with including all those buttons was to attract the hardcore audience again and am also curious how things would've turned out if they just released a new Wii with updated remotes instead of the gamepad.
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Aug 9, 2013 18:45
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Almost Smart posted:I bought my first widescreen HDTV in 2006. It was 37" and cost me about $1100. Not exactly chump change, but not a shitload of cash either. Yes well, anecdotal accounts aside, it would've been hard to predict the surge of HD monitors and TVs, especially with the foreboding economic issues so your point is lost.
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Aug 9, 2013 18:57
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greatn posted:Yeah Louis, I think it was pretty easy to predict HDTV adoption would continue to grow and grow rapidly. I think that's why Microsoft and Sony made HD consoles in the first place. Easy to say now but not so much in 2005 when they were more than likely finalizing hardware. All I'm saying is predicting trends of electronics isn't as cut and dry as you're making it out to be (HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray, 3D TVs, 4k resolution), especially with how quickly it happened. Quest For Glory II posted:I can see their thinking too, but from a consumer perspective, the benefit of a tablet is that it's NOT chained to an external box and you can take it everywhere with you. An $80 cost for a 720x480 resistive tablet that only streams output from an external box is.... I'm not gonna say it's false advertising, but what even is it? And from a "people who don't normally game" perspective, it's a tablet that offloads the most important functions to the buttons that said people have no interest in learning, even in Nintendoland. I've read the tablet is more in the $150 range, even for as "cheap" as it comes across. I'm with you though on all the other points.
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Aug 9, 2013 19:21
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blackguy32 posted:Yeah, I was even playing my Xbox 360 on my computer monitor through the VGA cable for a while since I couldn't afford a HDTV at that time. I used the VGA cable on my 360 for a while too until I got a capable HDTV. Anyway, I get the points about predicting HD so I'll just say that Nintendo's thought process was that HD wouldn't pick up as quickly as it did and that they were probably mostly looking at Japan's (slow) adoption rate. You have to admit, the HD era came quick and I knew a crazy amount of people that would spend $2500 on a huge plasma or LCD tv and have that same model literally be half the price a year later.
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Aug 10, 2013 05:00
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