United States v. Jeff Bozos

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > United States v. Jeff Bozos

cremnob: Jun 30, 2010

nyt has been going hard on amazon the past few months and amazon has lost the narrative. i love when apple's enemies get hosed

quote:

Amazon�s Monopsony Is Not O.K.

Amazon.com, the giant online retailer, has too much power, and it uses that power in ways that hurt America.

O.K., I know that was kind of abrupt. But I wanted to get the central point out there right away, because discussions of Amazon tend, all too often, to get lost in side issues.

For example, critics of the company sometimes portray it as a monster about to take over the whole economy. Such claims are over the top � Amazon doesn�t dominate overall online sales, let alone retailing as a whole, and probably never will. But so what? Amazon is still playing a troubling role.

Meanwhile, Amazon�s defenders often digress into paeans to online bookselling, which has indeed been a good thing for many Americans, or testimonials to Amazon customer service � and in case you�re wondering, yes, I have Amazon Prime and use it a lot. But again, so what? The desirability of new technology, or even Amazon�s effective use of that technology, is not the issue. After all, John D. Rockefeller and his associates were pretty good at the oil business, too � but Standard Oil nonetheless had too much power, and public action to curb that power was essential.

And the same is true of Amazon today.

If you haven�t been following the recent Amazon news: Back in May a dispute between Amazon and Hachette, a major publishing house, broke out into open commercial warfare. Amazon had been demanding a larger cut of the price of Hachette books it sells; when Hachette balked, Amazon began disrupting the publisher�s sales. Hachette books weren�t banned outright from Amazon�s site, but Amazon began delaying their delivery, raising their prices, and/or steering customers to other publishers.

You might be tempted to say that this is just business � no different from Standard Oil, back in the days before it was broken up, refusing to ship oil via railroads that refused to grant it special discounts. But that is, of course, the point: The robber baron era ended when we as a nation decided that some business tactics were out of line. And the question is whether we want to go back on that decision.

Does Amazon really have robber-baron-type market power? When it comes to books, definitely. Amazon overwhelmingly dominates online book sales, with a market share comparable to Standard Oil�s share of the refined oil market when it was broken up in 1911. Even if you look at total book sales, Amazon is by far the largest player.

So far Amazon has not tried to exploit consumers. In fact, it has systematically kept prices low, to reinforce its dominance. What it has done, instead, is use its market power to put a squeeze on publishers, in effect driving down the prices it pays for books � hence the fight with Hachette. In economics jargon, Amazon is not, at least so far, acting like a monopolist, a dominant seller with the power to raise prices. Instead, it is acting as a monopsonist, a dominant buyer with the power to push prices down.

And on that front its power is really immense � in fact, even greater than the market share numbers indicate. Book sales depend crucially on buzz and word of mouth (which is why authors are often sent on grueling book tours); you buy a book because you�ve heard about it, because other people are reading it, because it�s a topic of conversation, because it�s made the best-seller list. And what Amazon possesses is the power to kill the buzz. It�s definitely possible, with some extra effort, to buy a book you�ve heard about even if Amazon doesn�t carry it � but if Amazon doesn�t carry that book, you�re much less likely to hear about it in the first place.

So can we trust Amazon not to abuse that power? The Hachette dispute has settled that question: no, we can�t.

It�s not just about the money, although that�s important: By putting the squeeze on publishers, Amazon is ultimately hurting authors and readers. But there�s also the question of undue influence.

Specifically, the penalty Amazon is imposing on Hachette books is bad in itself, but there�s also a curious selectivity in the way that penalty has been applied. Last month the Times�s Bits blog documented the case of two Hachette books receiving very different treatment. One is Daniel Schulman�s �Sons of Wichita,� a profile of the Koch brothers; the other is �The Way Forward,� by Paul Ryan, who was Mitt Romney�s running mate and is chairman of the House Budget Committee. Both are listed as eligible for Amazon Prime, and for Mr. Ryan�s book Amazon offers the usual free two-day delivery. What about �Sons of Wichita�? As of Sunday, it �usually ships in 2 to 3 weeks.� Uh-huh.

Which brings us back to the key question. Don�t tell me that Amazon is giving consumers what they want, or that it has earned its position. What matters is whether it has too much power, and is abusing that power. Well, it does, and it is.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/20/opinion/paul-krugman-amazons-monopsony-is-not-ok.html?smid=tw-share

# ? Oct 20, 2014 05:33

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# ? Apr 27, 2024 03:04

a rad dink: May 28, 2006; take me to your peener

ya, but i have a credit card and no impulse control

# ? Oct 20, 2014 05:35

Ericadia: Oct 31, 2007; Not A Unicorn

Tarlach posted:

ya, but i have a credit card and no impulse control

same

# ? Oct 20, 2014 05:41

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

because vertically integrated oil companies are totally the same thing as an online retailer

# ? Oct 20, 2014 05:42

Boxturret: Oct 3, 2013; Don't ask me about Sonic the Hedgehog diaper fetish

posting in a creamknob thread

# ? Oct 20, 2014 05:42

pram: Jun 10, 2001

amazon owns

# ? Oct 20, 2014 05:45

Squeezy Farm: Jun 16, 2009

cremnob v. marissa mayer- laugh compilation [hd reupload]

# ? Oct 20, 2014 05:46

BANME.sh: Jan 23, 2008; What is this??
Are you some kind of hypnotist??; Grimey Drawer

book publishers have been notorious poo poo heads in the past so it's good that amazon is kicking them down a notch

thats my uneducated option, thanks for reading it

# ? Oct 20, 2014 05:48

angry_keebler: Jul 16, 2006; In His presence the mountains quake and the hills melt away; the earth trembles and its people are destroyed. Who can stand before His fierce anger?

cremnob posted:

nyt has been going hard on amazon the past few months and amazon has lost the narrative. i love when apple's enemies get hosed

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/20/opinion/paul-krugman-amazons-monopsony-is-not-ok.html?smid=tw-share

counterpoint:

amazon is really good + cool but hachette and the other big publishers are actually huge pieces of poo poo, much like this thread

# ? Oct 20, 2014 06:01

Sharktopus: Aug 9, 2006

angry_keebler posted:

counterpoint:

amazon is really good + cool but hachette and the other big publishers are actually huge pieces of poo poo, much like this thread

# ? Oct 20, 2014 06:15

Main Paineframe: Oct 27, 2010

amazon is poo poo but publishers are also poo poo, and both exist solely to take a cut from selling other people's work, so i don't really care which extremely wealthy company gets a bigger cut of the other rich company's money

# ? Oct 20, 2014 06:15

Sniep: Mar 28, 2004; All I needed was that fatty blunt...

King of Breakfast

ok i get it but who cares about books anyway, are they intentionally holding up my order of this set of electronic gizmos? i hope not.

# ? Oct 20, 2014 06:22

cremnob: Jun 30, 2010

angry_keebler posted:

counterpoint:

amazon is really good + cool but hachette and the other big publishers are actually huge pieces of poo poo, much like this thread

amazon is good and cool in the same way wal mart is good and cool

# ? Oct 20, 2014 06:52

theadder: Dec 30, 2011

didnt read

# ? Oct 20, 2014 06:54

Moist von Lipwig: Oct 28, 2006; by FactsAreUseless; Tortured By Flan

cremnob thread, didnt read, gas, ban op

# ? Oct 20, 2014 07:19

angry_keebler: Jul 16, 2006; In His presence the mountains quake and the hills melt away; the earth trembles and its people are destroyed. Who can stand before His fierce anger?

cremnob posted:

amazon is good and cool in the same way wal mart is good and cool

yeah both are good and cool, unlike your posts which are neither good nor cool

# ? Oct 20, 2014 10:07

funeral home DJ: Apr 21, 2003; Pillbug

Squeezy Farm posted:

cremnob v. marissa mayer- laugh compilation [hd reupload]

this would just be a video of a man shamefully trying to hide his erection while a dying pig squeals in the background

# ? Oct 20, 2014 10:49

Malcolm XML: Aug 8, 2009; I always knew it would end like ｔｈｉｓ．

amazon owns hard, except if u an employee

cheap goods hell yeah get hosed publishers

# ? Oct 20, 2014 11:20

Moo Cowabunga: Jun 15, 2009; [Office Worker.

*rthymic chant* USA USA USA USA

# ? Oct 20, 2014 11:27

power botton: Nov 2, 2011

i just purchased a new retina kindle OP

# ? Oct 20, 2014 11:33

maniacdevnull: Apr 18, 2007; FOUR CUBIC FRAMES
DISPROVES SOFT G GOD
YOU ARE EDUCATED STUPID

cremnob posted:

amazon is good and cool in the same way wal mart is good and cool

true

# ? Oct 20, 2014 11:46

Ericadia: Oct 31, 2007; Not A Unicorn

Squeezy Farm posted:

cremnob v. marissa mayer- laugh compilation [hd reupload]

link??

# ? Oct 20, 2014 12:13

Yodzilla: Apr 29, 2005; Now who looks even dumber?

Beef Witch

guys i think DealeXtreme is getting too powerful

# ? Oct 20, 2014 12:59

Catalyst-proof: May 11, 2011; better waste some time with you

i think the smell from your posts is getting too powerful

# ? Oct 20, 2014 13:04

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

nyt opinion columns are the hackiest poo poo ever.

cremnob posted:

nyt has been going hard on amazon the past few months and amazon has lost the narrative. i love when apple's enemies get hosed

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/20/opinion/paul-krugman-amazons-monopsony-is-not-ok.html?smid=tw-share

no one cares about your lovely blog or how you're mad publishers + apple got caught colluding.

# ? Oct 20, 2014 13:08

power botton: Nov 2, 2011

Shaggar posted:

nyt opinion columns are the hackiest poo poo ever.

no one cares about your lovely blog or how you're mad publishers + apple got caught colluding.

wow have some empathy

# ? Oct 20, 2014 13:12

Captain Foo: May 11, 2004; we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

angry_keebler posted:

counterpoint:

amazon is really good + cool but hachette and the other big publishers are actually huge pieces of poo poo, much like cremnob

# ? Oct 20, 2014 13:12

Shifty Pony: Dec 28, 2004; Up ta somethin'

Lol get hosed krugman. good luck arguing that theory of consumer harm in a court of law.

oh hey i'm sorry everyone. last time i bought a car i haggled the price down and I guess that hurt all car buyers ever because the manufacturer and dealer would have totally plowed that money into something amazing instead of one more line of coke for an executive.

also lol cremnob mad that Apple got its rear end whipped in a market.

# ? Oct 20, 2014 13:29

power botton: Nov 2, 2011

Shifty Pony posted:

Lol get hosed krugman. good luck arguing that theory of consumer harm in a court of law.

oh hey i'm sorry everyone. last time i bought a car i haggled the price down and I guess that hurt all car buyers ever because the manufacturer and dealer would have totally plowed that money into something amazing instead of one more line of coke for an executive.

also lol cremnob mad that Apple got its rear end whipped in a market.

krugman is cool and you're just a dumb poster

# ? Oct 20, 2014 13:31

maniacdevnull: Apr 18, 2007; FOUR CUBIC FRAMES
DISPROVES SOFT G GOD
YOU ARE EDUCATED STUPID

reminder that in a few short weeks you will be able to buy a gold iwatch to go with your apple phablet

# ? Oct 20, 2014 13:33

Widdiful: Oct 10, 2012

hahah aha ha haahah h i didnt read that op

# ? Oct 20, 2014 13:55

LP0 ON FIRE: Jan 25, 2006; _{beep boop}

why did you make me read this whole article. what does this have to do with amazon being apple's enemy and how were they hosed? it's just a guy scrutinizing amazon's business. nothing happened to amazon

# ? Oct 20, 2014 13:55

maniacdevnull: Apr 18, 2007; FOUR CUBIC FRAMES
DISPROVES SOFT G GOD
YOU ARE EDUCATED STUPID

LP0 ON FIRE posted:

why did you make me read this whole article. what does this have to do with amazon being apple's enemy and how were they hosed? it's just a guy scrutinizing amazon's business. nothing happened to amazon

u got

cremnobbed

# ? Oct 20, 2014 14:01

Boxturret: Oct 3, 2013; Don't ask me about Sonic the Hedgehog diaper fetish

Shifty Pony posted:

also lol cremnob

# ? Oct 20, 2014 16:17

duTrieux.: Oct 9, 2003

hobbesmaster posted:

because vertically integrated oil companies are totally the same thing as an online retailer

why, it's almost as if we live in a different age where previously learned lessons from non-related industries can be applied to new industries via an application of human intellect.

good thing that's not true. now if you'll excuse me, i've got a locked ecosystem that needs my attention.

# ? Oct 20, 2014 16:28

Fart.Bleed.Repeat.: Sep 29, 2001

cremnob posted:

nyt has been going hard on amazon the past few months and amazon has lost the narrative. i love when apple's enemies get hosed

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/20/opinion/paul-krugman-amazons-monopsony-is-not-ok.html?smid=tw-share

you said hard on

# ? Oct 20, 2014 16:38

Number19: May 14, 2003; HOCKEY OWNS
FUCK YEAH

please do not quote or engage Apple Stymie in any way

# ? Oct 20, 2014 16:41

Jose Oquendo: Jun 20, 2004; Star Trek: The Motion Picture is a boring movie

i'm illiterate so this is all totally irrelevant to me.

# ? Oct 20, 2014 16:44

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

duTrieux. posted:

why, it's almost as if we live in a different age where previously learned lessons from non-related industries can be applied to new industries via an application of human intellect.

good thing that's not true. now if you'll excuse me, i've got a locked ecosystem that needs my attention.

its the vertical integration part that matters, the analogy would hold if amazon did everything from grow the trees to selling it to the end consumer

# ? Oct 20, 2014 16:52

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# ? Apr 27, 2024 03:04

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

they are becoming their own publisher and looking at brick and mortar retail so they're slowly getting there

# ? Oct 20, 2014 16:53

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