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Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.



Aside from watching Arumba's modpack video again, is there a list of what keyboard shortcuts his keyboard shortcut mod adds?

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Pooned
Dec 28, 2005

Eye contact counters everything


Fister Roboto posted:

Expansion is easier in terms of AE, but the monarch point cost is a lot more expensive. 10 ADM/DIP per development point is pretty high, and also the discount for having a claim is now only -10%. I'm starting to wonder if this change didn't tip things too far in favor of vertical growth.

Right now it feels a lot easier to just take provinces without anyone caring.

Edit: And that is a little worrisome, feels way easier.

Pooned fucked around with this message at Jun 9, 2015 around 20:49

Beamed
Nov 26, 2010

FAAAATHEEER
THE SLEEEEEEPER HAS *snooze*


Last Emperor posted:

Nope.

Sammut/Trujillo has been working on Multiplayer Europa Gooniversalis right up until the last patch, it's pretty much how we always played our big MP games.

It's obviously not updated to work with Common Sense yet but Dibujante and I will be taking over its development now and basically rebuilding it from the ground up.

Heroes and inspirations to us all.

Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

ahh..what!? what?!
huh?!

Spiderfist Island posted:

Yeah, I'm also having these trackpad issues as well, and to top it off the built-in keyboard shortcuts don't even work anymore. Plugging in a mouse makes zooming take forever now, and the game seems to be burning up my computer considerably more than it did previously.


These are basically my issues, hope its all sortable.

Star
Jul 15, 2005

Guerilla war struggle is a new entertainment.


Started a game as burgundy and it's going quite well. The four vassals really help since you in taking France down, and if you're lucky you can attack while they fight Provence. I can't really figure out the development changes though; is it better to specialize your provinces or try to keep them all fairly developed?

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"


Pooned posted:

Right now it feels a lot easier to just take provinces without anyone caring.

Edit: And that is a little worrisome, feels way easier.

Easier to take, harder to core, from my understandings.

Also anyone recommend a good non-euro country to play? I've never played outside of europe. I think I tried once as Japan, looked at the Daimo system, got confused, and went back to europe. Is south america fun now with el dorado ? How is China and asia now?

reL
May 20, 2007


So what are the baselines I need/need to get used to to be prepared for goon multiplayer? Having only played some EU3 multiplayer briefly across a couple quickly-dead games, I don't really know the etiquette that you fellas have developed regarding gamespeed, pausing, diplomacy amongst players/peacedeals, etc. Any pointers, as I'd like to not being going in blind when I (eventually) get involved.

Giggle Goose
Oct 18, 2009


Baronjutter posted:

Easier to take, harder to core, from my understandings.

Also anyone recommend a good non-euro country to play? I've never played outside of europe. I think I tried once as Japan, looked at the Daimo system, got confused, and went back to europe. Is south america fun now with el dorado ? How is China and asia now?

I had a lot of fun playing as the Aztec with El Dorado. The early game with them is basically a whole different beast. It is a never ending cycle of war, taking vassals, and then releasing those vassals to get religious reforms all while balancing the Doom meter. When I finally removed the last independent country in Central America, I had an aggressive expansion penalty of somewhere north of 800 points.

It really is a lot of fun.

axeil
Feb 14, 2006

MR KELLY AND HIS WILD RIDE ARE DEAD.

LONG LIVE CARSON WENTZ AND HIS WAWA BATHROOM EMPIRE




Toilet Rascal

I'm loving the meltdown the Paradox Forums are having about this right now. One guy is complaining that they added a diplo point cost to annex vassals.


Which they added something like 4 patches ago. This is glorious


edit: And then Wiz came in to the "For the Love of God, Lower the Coring Cost" thread and left a great reply that just got them angrier:

Wiz posted:

no

axeil fucked around with this message at Jun 9, 2015 around 21:21

Trujillo
Jul 10, 2007


Arzakon posted:

From last thread -


I think this happens when a rebel faction is building in a province and that province starts building support for a different faction that already has progress. The progress carries over and gets added to the already growing faction. I've never seen it jump to 100+ before probably because it would only be there for the tick of the month. I have seen a 20% and 60% merge into a single 80% group before. Were you converting one of the provinces and had that finish the prior month?

That's probably what happened. Everything turned out alright though.



Might be the luckiest i've ever been in this game.

Mans
Sep 14, 2011

We have the dimension of an empire.


Baronjutter posted:

Easier to take, harder to core, from my understandings.

Also anyone recommend a good non-euro country to play? I've never played outside of europe. I think I tried once as Japan, looked at the Daimo system, got confused, and went back to europe. Is south america fun now with el dorado ? How is China and asia now?
Tunisia, Oman, Ethiopia, Mali, Timurids, Vijayanagar, Dai Viet and Brunei own, try them out.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003


England's probably the easiest I've seen it be. In my game France got dogpiled and I've been able to take the entirety of Brittany and all my continental cores, as well as Ireland and the best parts of Scotland, and it's not even 1500 yet.

AAAAA! Real Muenster
Jul 12, 2008

My QB is also named Bort


Baronjutter posted:

Also anyone recommend a good non-euro country to play? I've never played outside of europe. I think I tried once as Japan, looked at the Daimo system, got confused, and went back to europe. Is south america fun now with el dorado ? How is China and asia now?
I really enjoyed a game as Khmer I did a while back. I also really enjoyed making a custom-Brunei and going ham on the world (regular Brunei should be fine to do this as). Anyone in Indonesia seems like they would be fun.


Last Emperor posted:

Dibujante and I will be taking over Europa Gooniversalis development now and basically rebuilding it from the ground up.
Is this so Dibujante can make it so China is represented better?

Jolan
Feb 5, 2007


Growing wide is terribly expensive and growing tall is terribly expensive, not to mention peace deal costs that've shot through the roof. I'm not liking this at all so far. Hopefully a fresh start tomorrow will change my outlook, but I fear it's just too many changes at once for an old guy like me.

GreyjoyBastard
Mar 28, 2010


Jolan posted:

Growing wide is terribly expensive and growing tall is terribly expensive, not to mention peace deal costs that've shot through the roof. I'm not liking this at all so far. Hopefully a fresh start tomorrow will change my outlook, but I fear it's just too many changes at once for an old guy like me.

I suspect they intended to force some actual tough decisions, although maybe they went farther than planned.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


My plan for an Italy game became less fun seeming when I realised that North Italy has an obscene amount of super expensive (to core) provinces. I might try another Mughal game or maybe Manchu or a Turkish minor just for core cost reduction.

Also now my game won't start

Jolan posted:

Growing wide is terribly expensive and growing tall is terribly expensive, not to mention peace deal costs that've shot through the roof. I'm not liking this at all so far. Hopefully a fresh start tomorrow will change my outlook, but I fear it's just too many changes at once for an old guy like me.

I'm ok with it in theory, my main caveats are that 1. AI development spam is going to make the mid game terrible 2. Non-Westerners are going to have a worse time due to generally having fewer discretionary monarch points and 3. Administrative and Development Efficiency are too backloaded to have any impact on most games.

Average Bear
Apr 4, 2010


I found it, I found the bug in this DLC

Separatists of your country inherit you when they enforce demands. I just became a Feudal Monarchy with a new king/lovely ideas thanks to Cyprus revolting form the Mamluks. What the gently caress happened to patriot rebels

Arzakon
Nov 24, 2002

"I hereby retire from Mafia"
Please turbo me if you catch me in a game.


Trujillo posted:

That's probably what happened. Everything turned out alright though.



Might be the luckiest i've ever been in this game.

I closed my laptop and went to work as soon as I got stackwiped with all of my provinces hanging out with rebels on it. I did think the Madurain separatists would wander over to Viji which is pretty funny especially if one of the Madurain cores has a fort on it, the one that is sieged own already in their land?

Any reason you took the inland province instead of the CoT on the coast? I noticed the AE is pretty beefy up there but took it anyways and got coalitioned. Going to need to start improving relations if I want to try and grab all three.

Why did my boss schedule a 4-6PM meeting today...

Average Bear
Apr 4, 2010


like what the gently caress lol

Allyn
Sep 4, 2007

I love Charlie from Busted!

Hmm, France forced Burgundy to release some stuff, including province of Cambray (uhh, Hainaut maybe? I forget, they were purple, not sure it matters) and they started out as a junior partner in a PU under nobody. Mousing over their ruler gave me a CTD.

GreyjoyBastard
Mar 28, 2010


Average Bear posted:

like what the gently caress lol





This is a good bug.

Average Bear
Apr 4, 2010


How, I have to respend monarch points to get my good idea sets back and have no legitimacy
edit: didn't even notice my monarch points getting drained. Great waste of 4 hours by ruining this ironman save

Average Bear fucked around with this message at Jun 9, 2015 around 21:57

Last Emperor
Oct 30, 2009



reL posted:

So what are the baselines I need/need to get used to to be prepared for goon multiplayer? Having only played some EU3 multiplayer briefly across a couple quickly-dead games, I don't really know the etiquette that you fellas have developed regarding gamespeed, pausing, diplomacy amongst players/peacedeals, etc. Any pointers, as I'd like to not being going in blind when I (eventually) get involved.

Might get a better response in the PGS thread here:

http://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...er=109#lastpost

To answer your questions though basically Gamespeed is 2 pretty much all the time, there's no pausing either so you learn to make snap decisions. Diplomacy is pretty much a free-for-all with a lot of players discussing things in the time between our weekly sessions. Our current game is almost to the end-date and we'll be recruiting for a new one soon so keep an eye out.

It's one of those things that you just learn as you stick with it.

Also, when you lose your first war against a Player/suffer your first traitorous backstab.

Sephyr
Aug 28, 2012


Starting a game as Austria and it basically sends me a warning that if all Kingdom of Italy provinces are not brought into the Empire until 1490 and kept there until 1550, they're going to leave for good. Seems like a rather harsh way to direct your aggression, as I was hoping to take Bohemia down a peg or two first.

Sheep
Jul 24, 2003


Something is definitely wonky with forts - do they only stop movement if they're fully garrisoned? Just watched Poland march across a hostile Brandenburg to Holstein, passing right through Berlin without stopping to siege the capitol or the castle that is built there, which as far as I know isn't a thing that should be possible now.

GreyjoyBastard
Mar 28, 2010


Average Bear posted:

How, I have to respend monarch points to get my good idea sets back and have no legitimacy
edit: didn't even notice my monarch points getting drained. Great waste of 4 hours by ruining this ironman save

Well, other than the part where it's save-ruining.

Wilekat
Sep 24, 2007


This is going to take some adjusting to.

Initial impressions-
Vassalisations take significantly longer - playing Granada and the standard eat Tlemcen start involves a 9 year diplo annex and some truly insane monarch point investments.
Rebellions smashing provinces in one tick is rough, particularly at the beginning of the game as a small power. Harsh treatment is a real consideration now when the rebel stacks are strong and are likely to force more seperatism on you before you can adequately deal with them.
Monarch points are like gold dust now. Coring costs up, annexing costs up and now monarch point expenditure on province development means you have to be really careful with what you spend them on. I feel like a string of low tier rules will absolutely crush your ability to do anything.

I get the impression the game wants you to take it much slower now, but when nothing you can do in the slow periods really allows you to ever go much faster it feels like a bit of a drag.

I'll get used to it as always but the change is definitely a bit jarring.

CaptCommy
Aug 13, 2012

The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a goat.


Sheep posted:

Something is definitely wonky with forts - do they only stop movement if they're fully garrisoned? Just watched Poland march across a hostile Brandenburg to Holstein, passing right through Berlin without stopping to siege the capitol or the castle that is built there, which as far as I know isn't a thing that should be possible now.

IIRC, the free fort you get in your capital does not have any zone of control.

Roadie
Jun 30, 2013


As the Papal States (and joined in the HRE), Aragon just made a coalition declaration of war on me, pulling in a bunch of OPMs and minors...

...but I'm allied to both Austria and France and they joined on my side, and Austria pulled in Hungary too.

I don't think Aragon really thought this through properly.



Edit: There are few things in EU4 as delightful as seeing as a combined Austria-France 60-stack smash anyone who looks at you funny.

Roadie fucked around with this message at Jun 9, 2015 around 22:20

Sheep
Jul 24, 2003


Wilekat posted:

Rebellions smashing provinces in one tick is rough, particularly at the beginning of the game as a small power.

This is really annoying, especially with the ten years of separatism. Forts stop them but this also means you have to build forts literally everywhere.

It would be a lot better if separatism ramped up based on how long the province is occupied by rebels instead of just "occupied for 1 day, eat 10 years of separatism!" like it is now.

CaptCommy posted:

IIRC, the free fort you get in your capital does not have any zone of control.

Brandenburg starts with a castle in Berlin as well, which is why I said the capitol and castle. It's 3k total garrison (1k capitol + 2k castle), so as far as I know people marching straight through it shouldn't be possible but I definitely just watched it happen.

Edit: I'm guessing what happened is that zones of control don't go into effect until the month ticks over after having checked the button to maintain your forts (even if said fort is also your capitol and has a default 1/3 of its garrison at all times, which is unintuitive but understandable from a gameplay perspective). So it looks like if you rush enemy forts on day 1 of a war you have 27-30 days to instasiege them if they were not being maintained. Kinda silly.

Sheep fucked around with this message at Jun 9, 2015 around 23:22

Jazerus
May 24, 2011

I'm from another time, another world. I don't even know what you people eat for lunch.



Mans posted:

Tunisia, Oman, Ethiopia, Mali, Timurids, Vijayanagar, Dai Viet and Brunei own, try them out.

This is a good list. Vijay is kinda easy though, I would suggest Orissa instead. Majapahit is interesting since you're Hindu but in mostly-Sunni Indonesia. Kilwa is rich and good.

Bishop Rodan
Dec 5, 2011

See you in the funny papers, liebchen!

Baronjutter posted:

Easier to take, harder to core, from my understandings.

Also anyone recommend a good non-euro country to play? I've never played outside of europe. I think I tried once as Japan, looked at the Daimo system, got confused, and went back to europe. Is south america fun now with el dorado ? How is China and asia now?

Some of my most fun games have been as Malacca (though you can substitute this for Brunei or Majapahit), Bengal, and Iroquois.

Dekko
May 23, 2007


Ah, new EUIV DLC. This means I can continue my strategy of waiting for a new add-on to go on sale before buying the older ones on sale.

Finally I can try Art of War!

Jabarto
Apr 7, 2007

I could do with your...assistance.


Wilekat posted:

Monarch points are like gold dust now. Coring costs up, annexing costs up and now monarch point expenditure on province development means you have to be really careful with what you spend them on. I feel like a string of low tier rules will absolutely crush your ability to do anything.

This is why monarch points are the worst idea Paradox has ever had.

"Hey let's make a resource that's required for literally everything and can only be obtained through random die rolls the player has no ability to influence! They'll love it!"

Another Person
Oct 20, 2010





So the first big dumb exploit with CS has been found.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...urg-wad.860854/

i love it

e; for anyone who can't tell what happened, the player as an OPM joined a coalition against Burgundy and declared the war, let themselves get sieged, and then in the peace deal gave ALL of Austria's land away

Elman
Oct 26, 2009



Jabarto posted:

"Hey let's make a resource that's required for literally everything and can only be obtained through random die rolls the player has no ability to influence! They'll love it!"

Well, you can just let your lovely heirs get killed in sieges until you roll a good one

Poil
Mar 17, 2007



Another Person posted:

So the first big dumb exploit with CS has been found.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...urg-wad.860854/

i love it

e; for anyone who can't tell what happened, the player as an OPM joined a coalition against Burgundy and declared the war, let themselves get sieged, and then in the peace deal gave ALL of Austria's land away
That's hilarious. I assume it'll be patched out fairly soon because it's slightly exploitable.

axeil
Feb 14, 2006

MR KELLY AND HIS WILD RIDE ARE DEAD.

LONG LIVE CARSON WENTZ AND HIS WAWA BATHROOM EMPIRE




Toilet Rascal

Another Person posted:

So the first big dumb exploit with CS has been found.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...urg-wad.860854/

i love it

e; for anyone who can't tell what happened, the player as an OPM joined a coalition against Burgundy and declared the war, let themselves get sieged, and then in the peace deal gave ALL of Austria's land away

This is the best Day 1 Paradox DLC bug ever.


I'm guessing the "rebels taking land without forts in 1 month causing 10 years of nationalism" is an unintended consequence. Unless Wiz wanted to really buff up the rebels?

VDay
Jul 2, 2003

I'm Pacman Jones!


Oh man I forgot how tiny the UI is in the vanilla game. Hurry up and update UI mod

I also forgot how much analysis paralysis this game generates. I was psyched to play Common Sense and the second I load up a Muscovy game I'm immediately terrified to do anything.

\/\/ Awesome, good looking out.

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axeil
Feb 14, 2006

MR KELLY AND HIS WILD RIDE ARE DEAD.

LONG LIVE CARSON WENTZ AND HIS WAWA BATHROOM EMPIRE




Toilet Rascal

VDay posted:

Oh man I forgot how tiny the UI is in the vanilla game. Hurry up and update UI mod

I also forgot how much analysis paralysis this game generates. I was psyched to play Common Sense and the second I load up a Muscovy game I'm immediately terrified to do anything.

If you have a Paradox forums account you can download it from there. Apparently the Steam Workshop poo poo itself and every mod that updated today (all the UI ones) are messed up despite actually working on the developer's system. For now just do a manual install until it gets working again.

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