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Manket posted:That's fine as long as there's repercussions to taking that route, like massive negative relation penalties with other empires/races, to the point where basically everyone else in the federation gets a free casus belli on you or they start a union to take down what is clearly a dangerous, wantonly destructive force in the galaxy. Conquerors used to do this to cities that didn't surrender IRL, just with different tech.
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Dec 14, 2015 00:43
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| # ? Apr 27, 2024 22:24 |
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Whoopsie, fat-fingered the genocide button! 
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Dec 14, 2015 00:53
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Stellaris is looking more and more like a modern, sane, paradoxy version of Distant Worlds, I can't loving wait!
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Dec 14, 2015 01:06
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Demiurge4 posted:On that note, I wonder if you can confine a species to its home world as a non-spacefaring species like you're the loving Ur-Quan. Being able to play the Ur-Quan would be yet another bullet point in my long list of "instant purchase" bullet points I've got about this game.
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Dec 14, 2015 01:14
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I'm really wondering what the game's 'slavery' system is, and how it function. In that preview, it showed that the positive effect of extreme collectivist ethics was +100% slavery tolerance, balanced against -30% research speed in every category. That's a pretty significant penalty, so one would presume that the bonus is at a similar level of power...but it's not clear what it would really mean, or how it would apply. It's also a trifle odd, because I don't tend to think of collectivism as being associated with slavery, at least in the traditional sense. One possibility that occurs is that 'slavery' in the game refers, perhaps, to manual placement of workers in a particular niche or occupation. Such that if you wanted to start fine-tuning your worlds for a particular, optimised output, there would have to be a high "tolerance of slavery" there, or else the population (and possibly the rest of your civilization) would resent being told exactly what they have to do, instead of finding jobs of their own preference.
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Dec 14, 2015 01:22
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Yeah Paradox seems to have picked up some more libertarian type writers lately.
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Dec 14, 2015 01:27
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Eh, I'm not really quibbling over the semantics of it, I'm just wondering what it means mechanically.
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Dec 14, 2015 01:28
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cool and good posted:Conquerors used to do this to cities that didn't surrender IRL, just with different tech. And they usually ended up creating as many enemies and problems as they solved/eradicated. Dibujante posted:Games that do not enforce my moral views should be censored. Land wars are expensive, so player incurs manpower and economic penalties, diplo-annexing is difficult to pull off and increases chance of unrest and rebellion, but let's just give the player a genocide option that sidesteps the whole issue with no drawbacks. This is a good design choice founded on sound logic and historical precedence. FLIPSIXTHREEHOLE fucked around with this message at 01:57 on Dec 14, 2015 |
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Dec 14, 2015 01:52
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Manket posted:Land wars are expensive, so player incurs manpower and economic penalties, diplo-annexing is difficult to pull off and increases chance of unrest and rebellion, but let's just give the player a genocide button that sidesteps the whole issue with no drawbacks. This is a good design choice founded on sound logic and historical precedence. Strudel Man fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Dec 14, 2015 |
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Dec 14, 2015 01:56
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The less class based your society the more tolerant they are to.. slavery???
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Dec 14, 2015 02:07
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Baronjutter posted:The less class based your society the more tolerant they are to.. slavery??? Well communism is basically slavery if you are ruled by an autocratic leader (~the player~)
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Dec 14, 2015 02:10
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Baronjutter posted:The less class based your society the more tolerant they are to.. slavery???
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Dec 14, 2015 02:12
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The genocide button is worth having just so Paradox can one day publish statistics about how often it is pressed and how many races noble humanity have genocided into the footnotes of intergalactic history.
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Dec 14, 2015 02:47
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Which video there had the button, anyway? I didn't even see it when I looked at them. edit: Hah. Missed the Xenophobe ethic quote the first time. It's just quote:Alien scum. edit2: Oh, there it is! Per-pop, not per-planet. Interesting. So it's clearly not even directly part of the planet-conquering calculus, since you have to be in control of the planet for it to be a choice. Enslave is there, too, but that means that slavery definitely isn't what I guessed, since the previewer was able to move people around between jobs without them being enslaved. Hm. Strudel Man fucked around with this message at 03:08 on Dec 14, 2015 |
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Dec 14, 2015 03:00
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Personally, I like that they're not whitewashing it or playing it coyly by calling it "Planetary Bombardment" or "Expel the Natives" or whatever. It's just a plain straight-up "genocide" button.
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Dec 14, 2015 03:42
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Strudel Man posted:It's individualism vs collectivism, which is not exactly the same thing as capitalism vs communism. I think first of ants at one extreme vs, I don't know, tigers at the other. Which still doesn't make slavery tolerance make total sense, but. Yeah collectivism seems like it has to pull double duty for everything from the federation to the imperium of man and very likely less extreme collectivism has a different set of bonuses and penalties. Or at least I'd hope so, but whatever, easy to mod if it isn't.
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Dec 14, 2015 03:49
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Alpha Centauri handled war crimes pretty well. They'd pretty much permanently gently caress your relations with the victim and all other humans would also get pissed off at you. If you pushed it you'd see the whole planet turn against you (if the UN charter still exists, you could vote to do away with it and go hog wild). The best part is that the aliens they added to the game don't count as humans for war crimes and genocide, so you can nerve gas the gently caress out of them, do your absolute worst, and no one else cares. The aliens of course care deeply about that, but you're exterminating them so who cares. But yeah, in Moo2 or what ever you could glass someone's colonies and then make peace and trade treaties with them after. Wiping out colonies from orbit was just an accepted part of war. I hope depending on an empire's beliefs and relationships with other empires people would get pissed the gently caress off at your atrocities. Like multiple human(oid) empires would get very upset at genocide against each other but the hive mind fungus of Draxoid 7 might not give a gently caress because it doesn't even have a concept of genocide being bad. Have war crimes and genocides count worse for empires of the same species or species type and also based on that empire's own cultures and policies. I'm sure they have it all figured out though. I mean even if anyone here posted an amazing idea it's too late to get it added to their design document or what ever. But as a something awful forums marxist I hope their political labels and effects in the game don't trigger me. Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 05:16 on Dec 14, 2015 |
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Dec 14, 2015 05:13
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DrSunshine posted:Personally, I like that they're not whitewashing it or playing it coyly by calling it "Planetary Bombardment" or "Expel the Natives" or whatever. It's just a plain straight-up "genocide" button. It will only make me more ready to press the button, too. Because you're god drat right I'm going to purge the filthy xenos from my galaxy. 
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Dec 14, 2015 05:14
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I'll let a thousand worlds burn before I let the Day'ne menace onto glorious Sw'dn VII.
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Dec 14, 2015 05:16
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DrSunshine posted:Personally, I like that they're not whitewashing it or playing it coyly by calling it "Planetary Bombardment" or "Expel the Natives" or whatever. It's just a plain straight-up "genocide" button. Planetary Bombardment is presumably a separate thing. You Genocide pops on a planet you already control, you bombard the planet if you want to just glass it without conquering it.
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Dec 14, 2015 05:20
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Funky Valentine posted:Look, if the filthy potato people of Adsehteb IV didn't want to be blown to smithereens, they should've nicely kissed the boot of the Empire. And as for their collective alien mother, she shouldn't have mouthed off like that.
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Dec 14, 2015 06:17
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Wow all the saltiness about the ability to play as space rome and salt the earth of space carthage.
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Dec 14, 2015 06:19
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Only implementing the holocaust in hoi4 could rectify this. It's only fair.
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Dec 14, 2015 06:47
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goodness posted:EU4 vs CK2 If you were confused about EU4 mechanics, CK2 will only be worse. Man oh man I want to like CK2 but there's a ton of relatively opaque poo poo going on that's just not fun to play with and a lot of "well, I won that war, now it's time to spend 30 minutes+ clicking on menus to see if I can scare up some reasonable vassals" or similarly frustrating/boring activities. There's a ton of other reasons but CK2 is pretty new-player unfriendly at the moment compared to EU4 imo. If you're enjoying EU4, keep at it. Eventually one day you might get an itch for something different, and then CK2 will be waiting in the wings for you. Or hopefully they'll make a funeral pyre and chuck CK2/Groogy onto it and build something more focused on fun atop its fundementals with CK3. edit I say this as an idiot with hundreds of hours clocked in at CK2 btw Aisar fucked around with this message at 08:13 on Dec 14, 2015 |
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Dec 14, 2015 08:11
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Crash74 posted:Wow all the saltiness about the ability to play as space rome and salt the earth of space carthage. will we have space mercenaries, space merchants, space colonies, space elephants and space alps? this is important
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Dec 14, 2015 08:12
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Funky Valentine posted:Look, if the filthy potato people of Adsehteb IV didn't want to be blown to smithereens, they should've nicely kissed the boot of the Empire. Look, my people just wanted to eat their skin with sour cream, and they got all upset over it during first contact. I think we know who fired the first shot. Strudel Man posted:It's individualism vs collectivism, which is not exactly the same thing as capitalism vs communism. I think first of ants at one extreme vs, I don't know, tigers at the other. Which still doesn't make slavery tolerance make total sense, but. Ants vs. Ayn Ryans I think for slavery tolerance it's meant to simulate hive-like collectivism. So you go from normal forms of collectivism that we have experienced today from hippie communes, socialism, and even authoritarian dictatorships, to outright enforced collectivism through mind bending technology or species genetic makeup. Space Bees are going to grow up collectivist, but a race that grows into collectivism via technology is going to be okay forcing other species to love being a part of the group even if they would never do so naturally. Liberating them from their selfish and self-destructive behaviors, etc, etc... I guess think "The Many" from System Shock 2 and how they present themselves. This wouldn't be normal collectivism as we understood it and practice occasionally. This is the extremes that we've yet to see. Oh yeah, and The Borg. That's another example.
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Dec 14, 2015 08:34
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Demiurge4 posted:Mushrooms aren't people I beg to differ! Mushrooms and Squids are greater individuals than any dumb apes!
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Dec 14, 2015 08:51
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Bel Monte posted:I think for slavery tolerance it's meant to simulate hive-like collectivism. So you go from normal forms of collectivism that we have experienced today from hippie communes, socialism, and even authoritarian dictatorships, to outright enforced collectivism through mind bending technology or species genetic makeup. Space Bees are going to grow up collectivist, but a race that grows into collectivism via technology is going to be okay forcing other species to love being a part of the group even if they would never do so naturally. Liberating them from their selfish and self-destructive behaviors, etc, etc... I guess think "The Many" from System Shock 2 and how they present themselves. A few things we can infer from that; the first is that the collectivist species apparently is fine with forced enslavement of themselves, not just others. The other is that xenophobia and collectivism might be a wasted combination, if 100% tolerance means 'full' tolerance. Alternately, we might read into it that these bonuses are still far from being seriously pinned down mechanically. Though that would honestly be a bit concerning at this point. But the most important question is whether Space Rome will be able to follow hellenic paganism.
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Dec 14, 2015 09:28
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Hot Dog Day #82 posted:The genocide button is worth having just so Paradox can one day publish statistics about how often it is pressed and how many races noble humanity have genocided into the footnotes of intergalactic history. You can play as different races, right? So it could be Earth getting blown up.
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Dec 14, 2015 10:37
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DrSunshine posted:Personally, I like that they're not whitewashing it or playing it coyly by calling it "Planetary Bombardment" or "Expel the Natives" or whatever. It's just a plain straight-up "genocide" button. This is actually an old video, as the button is now called "Purge", thread talked about it a bit when the previous but more up to date gameplay vid was shown. Phlegmish posted:You can play as different races, right? So it could be Earth getting blown up. Indeed. During MP last week my mushroom people started pretty close to a pre-space Earth, so I immediately started bombarding them (this was actually due to a bug, but I went with it) and then launched several failed invasions before conquering and "purging" them all. It's not really terribly hard to invade pre-space races, but I was trying to do it very early and on a shoe-string budget.
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Dec 14, 2015 12:21
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Darkrenown posted:"Purge" Orwell was right.
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Dec 14, 2015 12:53
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I think I like "Genocide" better. EDIT: Genocide the "Dixie"
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Dec 14, 2015 15:52
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Can't wait for the mod that starts earth overpopulated with subspecies based on not-quite-modern racial conceptualization and you're meant to genocide the lesser species.
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Dec 14, 2015 16:00
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Going to be a day one WWII mod where you start pre-warp and have to press the purge button a few times to get through human history, but only for serious historical reasons you see.
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Dec 14, 2015 16:08
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New dev diary on primitive civs Excerpt: Paradox posted:
So your options are Federation, Greys, Vulcan or Reptilians. Every time I think my hype levels can't go any higher, I'm disproven.
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Dec 14, 2015 16:57
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Holy poo poo, it should be considered illegal to drop something as awesome as that and not give us any sort of release date. This game is going to be loving amazing. I hope your reptilian tactic can be snuffed out by hicks or truthers guessing correctly.
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Dec 14, 2015 17:00
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So we'll actually get to be reptilian Obama! Fantastic! Man, Stellaris is going to be sooooo COOL, you guys!!!
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Dec 14, 2015 17:05
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I hope there's an event where you can uplift a race of super soldiers to fight a war and have them rebel on you after the war is over because they're bored.
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Dec 14, 2015 17:08
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canepazzo posted:New dev diary on primitive civs Stellaris is shaping up to be the game Spore was supposed to be.
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Dec 14, 2015 17:10
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I hope that if you do aggressive observation or try to conquer the planet, a sufficiently advanced civilization might try to resist you, XCOM-style. I've always wanted to try seeing it from the other side! 
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Dec 14, 2015 17:10
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