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What is YISUN?
Mother
A lie we tell ourselves to have a purpose
Bliss
A paradox with no solution
Father
A strong female protagonist
The weakest thing there is and the smallest crawling thing
Creator
Everything in this miserable and hellish existence
A solution with no paradoxes
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maswastaken
Nov 12, 2011



Thundarr posted:

A universe without time is one that can never change. Entropy, disorder, chaos (aspected or otherwise) cannot exist there. Given the present situations of our protagonists, that seems like reason enough to want Jags to not succeed. I don't think he's gonna be talked down from his position in under a minute, though.
It's Solomon's empire on a grander scale, really. A stagnant expanse that only looks idyllic.

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Mr. Lobe
Feb 23, 2007

... Dry bones...




Rigged Death Trap posted:

Sever case of "dont know what to do with my hands, especially now I have 3 pairs, one of which is extra long"

Spiders at least busy themselves by using 3 of their 4 pairs of limbs to walk.

Bilirubin
Feb 16, 2014

The sanctioned action is to CHUG!!!




Bleak Gremlin

They should just show Jagg's the Wednesday bat meme, that'll sort this right quick

Joe Slowboat
Nov 9, 2016

Higgledy-Piggledy Whale Statements





I assume the kind of 'without time' Jagganoth means is a world not frozen, but radically freed from linear time; change can occur but you can simply step back before that change. It's a not an unheard-of eschatology, that in the perfected world time will have no power, that liberation is to escape the grip of time.

TwoPair
Mar 28, 2010

Pandamn It Feels Good To Be A Gangsta


Grimey Drawer

Guildenstern Mother posted:

Now for the real debate, which of the three is influencing the jojo posing? Seems like some WC kinda drama, but I can see Cio voting yes on it, overruling Allison who knows how anime it looks.

WC's been doing it by accident for a while now so it has to be her

Thundarr
Dec 24, 2002




Joe Slowboat posted:

I assume the kind of 'without time' Jagganoth means is a world not frozen, but radically freed from linear time; change can occur but you can simply step back before that change. It's a not an unheard-of eschatology, that in the perfected world time will have no power, that liberation is to escape the grip of time.

Entropy requires that time has a direction. If everybody could just re-aim time's arrow at will from their perspective then it would do weird things to their ability to interact with anything outside of themselves, creating a new sort of prison!

Or else such a universe would operate in such a profoundly different way from ours that somebody from our universe could never understand it, which would mean Jags has no idea what he's working towards despite being 100% convinced that it would be better than the status quo.

Or maybe he's just going to turn everybody into happy little beams of light because time has no meaning when you're a photon.

Joe Slowboat
Nov 9, 2016

Higgledy-Piggledy Whale Statements





Thundarr posted:

Entropy requires that time has a direction. If everybody could just re-aim time's arrow at will from their perspective then it would do weird things to their ability to interact with anything outside of themselves, creating a new sort of prison!

Or else such a universe would operate in such a profoundly different way from ours that somebody from our universe could never understand it, which would mean Jags has no idea what he's working towards despite being 100% convinced that it would be better than the status quo.

Or maybe he's just going to turn everybody into happy little beams of light because time has no meaning when you're a photon.

Physics isn't real in this comic already.
Soul-flame is real.
Atum, not atoms.

If you argue 'life without time is incomprehensible from our perspective' you don't need to frame it in terms of laws of physics that already apply 0% to the larger cosmos.

Rogue AI Goddess
May 10, 2012

I enjoy the sight of humans on their knees.
That was a joke... unless..?


If the time-loop fan theory is correct, then he might be talking about that particular prison.

Thundarr
Dec 24, 2002




Fair, though most things are still happening in a way that we can make sense of because the setting functions mostly like our world does. Just with a lot more anime fights between gods, angels, devils, and noodle aficionados.

Mostly I'm just curious how a timeless universe would be conveyed in the comic. I'm interested to find out even though we probably don't want events to actually play out that way.

eke out
Feb 24, 2013



Rogue AI Goddess posted:

If the time-loop fan theory is correct, then he might be talking about that particular prison.

yeah that's a pretty good point, if Allison is actually just the latest Conquering King in an actual neverending loop, destroying time (in a certain sense) could be good

i feel like he's being more literal though

habeasdorkus
Nov 3, 2013

Royalty is a continuous shitposting motion.

Gonna be a real shock when it turns out Abbadon has been setting us up for hardcore Calvinist/Determinist predestination.

Dr Subterfuge
Aug 31, 2005


Jadis the hardcore Calvinist.

Bilirubin
Feb 16, 2014

The sanctioned action is to CHUG!!!




Bleak Gremlin

habeasdorkus posted:

Gonna be a real shock when it turns out Abbadon has been setting us up for hardcore Calvinist/Determinist predestination.

the final boss is the Apostle Paul

Rigged Death Trap
Feb 13, 2012

BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP



Thundarr posted:

Fair, though most things are still happening in a way that we can make sense of because the setting functions mostly like our world does. Just with a lot more anime fights between gods, angels, devils, and noodle aficionados.

Mostly I'm just curious how a timeless universe would be conveyed in the comic. I'm interested to find out even though we probably don't want events to actually play out that way.

So the Godtime from glorantha.

Grouchio
Aug 31, 2014

The Entire Freakin' John Galt Speech


Speaking of Jojo I'm getting BIG FATHER PUCCI VIBES from this page.
Is Jag's secret power [ MADE IN HEAVEN? ]

Grouchio fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Apr 7, 2021

Joe Slowboat
Nov 9, 2016

Higgledy-Piggledy Whale Statements





Thundarr posted:

Fair, though most things are still happening in a way that we can make sense of because the setting functions mostly like our world does. Just with a lot more anime fights between gods, angels, devils, and noodle aficionados.

Mostly I'm just curious how a timeless universe would be conveyed in the comic. I'm interested to find out even though we probably don't want events to actually play out that way.

Sure, but nothing about entropy is strictly required for our world to exist like it does, though entropy is in fact fundamental to it. Ancient cultures perceived the same general world as we do, in terms of personal experience.

I imagine a timeless world would, in a comic, look a lot like cubism.

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

I have no country to fight for; my country is the earth; I am a citizen of the world.




Thundarr posted:



Or else such a universe would operate in such a profoundly different way from ours that somebody from our universe could never understand it, which would mean Jags has no idea what he's working towards despite being 100% convinced that it would be better than the status quo.



Maybe for you but Jaggs is really smart.

Rigged Death Trap posted:

So the Godtime from glorantha.

Yes. A thing that also super sucked for mortals.

Joe Slowboat
Nov 9, 2016

Higgledy-Piggledy Whale Statements





quote:

YISUN was questioned once by their disciples at their speaking house. The questions were the following:

'What is the ultimate reason for existence?'

To which YISUN replied, 'Self-deception.'

'How can a man live in perfect harmony?'

To which YISUN replied, 'Non-existence.'

'What is the ultimate result of all action?'

To which YISUN replied, 'Futility.'

'How best can we serve your will?'

To which YISUN replied, 'Kindly ignore my first three answers.'

Jagganoth has identified the problem and does not plan to kindly ignore it.

Kalli
Jun 2, 2001




Tulip posted:

Maybe for you but Jaggs is really wicked smaht.

That's right, Jagganoth is voiced by Mark Wahlberg

Otherkinsey Scale
Jul 17, 2012

Just a little bit of sunshine!


Rogue AI Goddess posted:

If the time-loop fan theory is correct, then he might be talking about that particular prison.

It's this. He's not trying to destroy linear time, he's trying to destroy cyclical time.

...which, unless this is the first cycle he became aware of the problem, means he's already tried and failed before. Probably tried to explain all this to the other demiurges before, too.

Thundarr
Dec 24, 2002




What is the best way to catch up on the time loop fan theory? I guess I hadn't heard that one previously.

YaketySass
Jan 15, 2019

Blind Idiot Dog


Considering the proto-comic had Zoss's role taken by Literally Nietzsche, some eternal return isn't out of the question.

Allison's gonna rebuke Jagganoth with the anime speech equivalent of Amor fati.

Otherkinsey Scale
Jul 17, 2012

Just a little bit of sunshine!


Thundarr posted:

What is the best way to catch up on the time loop fan theory? I guess I hadn't heard that one previously.

I don't know that I'd call it a fan theory at this point; 6 Juggernaut basically spells it out here.

ATP_Power
Jun 12, 2010

This is what fascinates me most in existence: the peculiar necessity of imagining what is, in fact, real.




'Spin the wheel and laugh at god' is the name of a red art in the Broken Worlds RPG that rewinds time as well.

Bilirubin
Feb 16, 2014

The sanctioned action is to CHUG!!!




Bleak Gremlin

Otherkinsey Scale posted:

I don't know that I'd call it a fan theory at this point; 6 Juggernaut basically spells it out here.

Also comments by Zoss

flatluigi
Apr 22, 2008

here come the planes


it's still up in the air whether characters are speaking metaphorically in a cycle-of-violence sort of way or about a literal time loop

paranoid randroid
Mar 4, 2007


ATP_Power posted:

'Spin the wheel and laugh at god' is the name of a red art in the Broken Worlds RPG that rewinds time as well.

and you can take it at level one!

broken worlds gets batshit in very short order

Joe Slowboat
Nov 9, 2016

Higgledy-Piggledy Whale Statements





If time is cyclical, it looks like the cycle is 'Zoss goes back in time to personally set the wheel straight, again and again, ultimately decides this will never work and hands his key to an idiot from Earth, we are now in the Earth Idiot Timeline'

However, Jagganoth's problem is with pain, suffering, and loss. Time doesn't need to be cyclical to make that a problem or indeed a quality of time. Moreover, Nietzsche's Eternal Return was as much a thought experiment about having only one life to live - if you were forced to do your entire life over again exactly as you had it for eternity, that's precisely how important your choices already are: This is all of time to you. (Later writings point to him entertaining the idea of literal eternal recurrence).

So, even if time is merely one-way, Allison's amor fati is a decent response to Jagganoth and Incubus' various brands of nihilism or desperate cosmicidal rage.

Victis
Mar 26, 2008



Otherkinsey Scale posted:

It's this. He's not trying to destroy linear time, he's trying to destroy cyclical time.

...which, unless this is the first cycle he became aware of the problem, means he's already tried and failed before.

Right, and now (?) the anomaly that is Allison is running around. Jaggs has never had the Zoss key.

ThaumPenguin
Oct 9, 2013



https://twitter.com/Orbitaldropkick/status/1380175033436356610?s=19

Phy
Jun 27, 2008





Fun Shoe


Very cool but I've had a figurine of Ciocie Ciolle for a while now

TwoPair
Mar 28, 2010

Pandamn It Feels Good To Be A Gangsta


Grimey Drawer

Phy posted:

Very cool but I've had a figurine of Ciocie Ciolle for a while now

Ah but that's Ciocie Ciolle Classic, you want the New Cio.

Mile'ionaha
Nov 2, 2004




That's a lot of statue.

A Wizard of Goatse
Dec 14, 2014



Thundarr posted:

Or else such a universe would operate in such a profoundly different way from ours that somebody from our universe could never understand it, which would mean Jags has no idea what he's working towards despite being 100% convinced that it would be better than the status quo.

wdarkk
Oct 26, 2007

Friends: Protected
World: Saved
Crablettes: Eaten


Any idea what the pricing on that Cio statue will be? It looked like none of that company's 1/6 resin lines have price info yet.

OgreNoah
Nov 18, 2003



wdarkk posted:

Any idea what the pricing on that Cio statue will be? It looked like none of that company's 1/6 resin lines have price info yet.

I got a 1/6" scale Toothless a few years ago for 250$us, and it's wonderful, but yeah, poo poo's expensive.

Donkringel
Apr 22, 2008


I was thinking a 1/6 of cio would be too big but that's a little under a foot.

Cryophage
Jan 14, 2012

what the hell is that creepy cartoon thing in your avatar?


Grouchio
Aug 31, 2014

The Entire Freakin' John Galt Speech


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rt1D6KsV1s

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wdarkk
Oct 26, 2007

Friends: Protected
World: Saved
Crablettes: Eaten


OgreNoah posted:

I got a 1/6" scale Toothless a few years ago for 250$us, and it's wonderful, but yeah, poo poo's expensive.

Yeah thatís what Iím afraid of, at that price level it competes with things that are also really awesome.

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