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Shumagorath posted:Does anyone else feel like the game is going to get a bit too busy with both Chosen and boss aliens running around? Every single mission is going to have some rear end in a top hat that gets a turn every time one of your guys takes an action. Chosen don't work that way. They work like normal enemies. Of course you can't permakill them until you've done a fairly long mission chain and they'll keep popping in to harass you until then. Also Rulers won't attack until you specifically activate them. Ironically, high level skirmishers basically are alien rulers with a ton of conditional reaction action triggers. Zore fucked around with this message at 04:34 on Aug 24, 2017 |
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Aug 24, 2017 04:31
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Shumagorath posted:Does anyone else feel like the game is going to get a bit too busy with both Chosen and boss aliens running around? Every single mission is going to have some rear end in a top hat that gets a turn every time one of your guys takes an action. i've been watching videos marbozir has up on his youtube channel and i feel like he's running into the chosen a lot. the bosses only guard facilities now i am pretty sure, but the chosen showing up at the frequency they do i admit i am a bit iffy on. maybe there's some way to mitigate the chance of that that i am not seeing or maybe there's just no taking some lower rank guys on to missions to train them now. edit: i mean you can train them via covert ops and i think you can train them even higher than squaddie rank with whatever the equivalent of the soldier training building is now so it's not like you're hosed forever, but i saw marbozir take a group of lower level guys onto a mission because everyone else was hurt and a chosen showed up and he had no chance to finish the mission as early as turn two. also the chosen can have abilities that can summon advent or faceless every round, which is an absurd amount of attrition and problems potentially on some of these missions i've seen with a base line lower timer, or that require you to be moving forward every turn. a chosen spawning on a mission where you need to save a vip from a lost horde seems like potentially hugely irritating and possibly mission killing rabidsquid fucked around with this message at 04:40 on Aug 24, 2017 |
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Aug 24, 2017 04:37
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The Chosen seem pretty chumpy overall tbh? At least the Hunter and his MMO telegraphed attacks. Revival Protocol seems practically mandatory tho considering all the poo poo Chosen/Spectres/Priests pull that it can negate.
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Aug 24, 2017 04:42
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I switched from ChristopherOdd to EnterElysium and was glad that he didn't take five loving minutes on each turn (while still loving it up somehow) but he got his first Templar, deployed them on a retaliation, and had them enter bleedout before they did anything but move because of a muton grenade. He then killed a bonded soldier with his own explosives because he didn't check the radius.
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Aug 24, 2017 04:46
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the only person i can stand with an advance copy is marbozir
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Aug 24, 2017 04:47
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The Chosen pause mission timers when they're engaged by XCOM.
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Aug 24, 2017 04:58
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Yeah, Marbozir's LP is pretty good so far. It's making me really want to play xcom.
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Aug 24, 2017 05:02
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Exposure posted:The Chosen pause mission timers when they're engaged by XCOM. That's nice, but unless they pause all the stuff that are effectively timers like civilians left on a retaliation or the hp of the radio relay you have to protect then they're still going to be a massive pain.
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Aug 24, 2017 07:08
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Mzbundifund posted:That's nice, but unless they pause all the stuff that are effectively timers like civilians left on a retaliation or the hp of the radio relay you have to protect then they're still going to be a massive pain. They do pause the ADVENT extracting crates on the appropriate missions, so it's not unreasonable to expect that they'll also pause the other soft timers like "pods in fog killing one civilian a turn".
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Aug 24, 2017 07:29
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They do not https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ot2wc2oSh4w
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Aug 24, 2017 07:31
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The review embargo has been lifted and Rock, Paper, Shotgun has released their review (hint: they like it).
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Aug 24, 2017 15:13
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Eurogamer's Chris Bratt has his review up as well, and much like the RPS review it's pretty glowing. Tuesday can't come soon enough. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-08-24-xcom-2-war-of-the-chosen-review
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Aug 24, 2017 15:47
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rabidsquid posted:i've been watching videos marbozir has up on his youtube channel and i feel like he's running into the chosen a lot. the bosses only guard facilities now i am pretty sure, but the chosen showing up at the frequency they do i admit i am a bit iffy on. maybe there's some way to mitigate the chance of that that i am not seeing or maybe there's just no taking some lower rank guys on to missions to train them now. edit: i mean you can train them via covert ops and i think you can train them even higher than squaddie rank with whatever the equivalent of the soldier training building is now so it's not like you're hosed forever, but i saw marbozir take a group of lower level guys onto a mission because everyone else was hurt and a chosen showed up and he had no chance to finish the mission as early as turn two. I think Marbs said either in video or comments, I think it was the latter , that the preview build is designed to spit out the new stuff more often. I wonder if that also means that you won't get as many of the inspired research options too?
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Aug 24, 2017 16:02
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These reviews sound like this expansion will be bad for my productivity.
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Aug 24, 2017 16:05
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A Better Advent 2 scared the hell out of me. Very first supply raid sent me against two pods of chrysalids of all things. I didn't realize that the mod added lower tiers of them, so I was pleasantly surprised when I realized that they didn't have any armor. One of them did hit my ranger, but apparently they can't poison. I'm doing pretty okay now, I got the second squad size upgrade, so the numbers are evening out a little. There are two more added by a mod (since ABA2 recommended a squad size of 6-8), but I need a Major and Colonel for those. On the subject of WotC, I had been avoiding streams of it, but maybe I should watch them. I'm not really that great of a player, so picking up more strategy from better players would help. (Only been playing off and on since January, since Beagle's LP got me into the series).
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Aug 24, 2017 17:15
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YouSpoonyBard posted:Eurogamer's Chris Bratt has his review up as well, and much like the RPS review it's pretty glowing. Tuesday can't come soon enough. For some reason I thought it was coming on Sunday 
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Aug 24, 2017 17:54
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Darkrenown posted:For some reason I thought it was coming on Sunday I have to wait until September 12 
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Aug 24, 2017 17:58
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Colgate posted:A Better Advent 2 scared the hell out of me. Very first supply raid sent me against two pods of chrysalids of all things. I didn't realize that the mod added lower tiers of them, so I was pleasantly surprised when I realized that they didn't have any armor. One of them did hit my ranger, but apparently they can't poison. By the way, what 'recommended squad size of 6-8' means is USE LONG WAR TOOLBOX AND CHANGE THE BASE SQUAD SIZE TO 6. I cannot fathom doing ABA2 with only 4 units at the beginning, haha.
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Aug 24, 2017 18:40
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Yeah, ABA2 with 4 units is pain. Especially since they have a grenade fetish and add them to basically all the variant ADVENT.
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Aug 24, 2017 19:12
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Colgate posted:A Better Advent 2 scared the hell out of me. Very first supply raid sent me against two pods of chrysalids of all things. I didn't realize that the mod added lower tiers of them, so I was pleasantly surprised when I realized that they didn't have any armor. One of them did hit my ranger, but apparently they can't poison. Incidentally, ABA2 does have a website, and you can actually read up on all the different enemy variants they've added if you want, so you can see what sort of poo poo you can run into. The later poo poo is scary; at the utter-endgame levels, they have "Prime" tier enemies, which are basically mini-rulers; they get a reaction action every time they take damage. Reminder: Gunslinger ability "Fanfire" counts as three instances of damage. Be drat sure it'll kill the thing before you hit a Prime enemy with it. EDIT: And fun fact, ABA2 also recommends a class mod, such as the Long War Perk Pack, or the Shadow Ops class pack, or the Paragon Class Rebalance mod. It also recommends a timer extension, like True Concealment. Also, the Additional Icons mod I'm so fond of, as one of the things it does is add the NAME of the unit along with a numeric health display, whether or not it's holding items, etc., so you can tell at a glance what each enemy is capable of; assuming you know what the different variants do. BlazetheInferno fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Aug 24, 2017 |
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Aug 24, 2017 21:09
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I'll never forget giving my Spark the Intimidate ability and then running into one of those ABA sectopods with Annihilation Protocol. It took a shot at my Spark which made my Spark intimidate it which gave it a free attack from Annihilation Protocol which kept the cycle going until my Spark was dead.
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Aug 24, 2017 21:25
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marshmallow creep posted:I'll never forget giving my Spark the Intimidate ability and then running into one of those ABA sectopods with Annihilation Protocol. It took a shot at my Spark which made my Spark intimidate it which gave it a free attack from Annihilation Protocol which kept the cycle going until my Spark was dead. That... may be something to bring up to the Mod makers if it's something that still happens.
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Aug 24, 2017 22:34
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The ABA guy posted some of the changes he'll be pushing out in the WotC edition once it goes live. Mostly cutting stuff that didn't really work (ADVENT Breachers being dumb and not fun to fight, units that are replaced by dark events/new enemies) and some interesting notes on theoretical future stuff once we have some time with the expansion.
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Aug 24, 2017 22:43
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marshmallow creep posted:I'll never forget giving my Spark the Intimidate ability and then running into one of those ABA sectopods with Annihilation Protocol. It took a shot at my Spark which made my Spark intimidate it which gave it a free attack from Annihilation Protocol which kept the cycle going until my Spark was dead. How did you intimidate a robot in the first place
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Aug 24, 2017 22:43
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I dunno, man. The thing shoots at my spark and Bender Bending Rodriguez just points at him as if to say "What are you going to do? Shoot me!?" only to be shot again, on loop.
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Aug 24, 2017 23:00
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BlazetheInferno posted:Incidentally, ABA2 does have a website, and you can actually read up on all the different enemy variants they've added if you want, so you can see what sort of poo poo you can run into. The later poo poo is scary; at the utter-endgame levels, they have "Prime" tier enemies, which are basically mini-rulers; they get a reaction action every time they take damage. Reminder: Gunslinger ability "Fanfire" counts as three instances of damage. Be drat sure it'll kill the thing before you hit a Prime enemy with it. Oh poo poo, I didn't realize. I mean, the retaliation missions I've been doing have been really hard (the first one coming down to both luck, and myself having the alien hunters weapons). I actually have a timer extension mod, TimerTweaks, but it only extends the timer by 1 or 2 turns. I really liked ABA2's enemy variety and what it seems to do to the AI, so it's a shame. But that stuff about Prime enemies is enough to get me to drop the mod altogether and restart a vanila Commander game or try out LW2 on Rookie or something (I expect that would go horribly, but playing with LW2's classes and needing multiple squads for stuff sounds fun). Or just play Warframe and Rimworld until WotC comes out. I found the rulers kind of obnoxious, and the one thing in WotC that annoys me is that they expand on it.
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Aug 24, 2017 23:21
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Colgate posted:Oh poo poo, I didn't realize. I mean, the retaliation missions I've been doing have been really hard (the first one coming down to both luck, and myself having the alien hunters weapons). I actually have a timer extension mod, TimerTweaks, but it only extends the timer by 1 or 2 turns. I really liked ABA2's enemy variety and what it seems to do to the AI, so it's a shame. I mean functionally Chosen work like normal enemies with 3-4 AP and not like Rulers with the reaction if thats what bugged you
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Aug 24, 2017 23:27
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Zore posted:I mean functionally Chosen work like normal enemies with 3-4 AP and not like Rulers with the reaction if thats what bugged you Oh, that would be fine. Or even a free covering fire overwatch every turn, if they're dead set on reactions. The reaction stuff was the part that annoyed me.
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Aug 24, 2017 23:31
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Someone said earlier that Rulers only have reactions now--no regular actions--and only get those reactions if they can see them and those actions cause them damage. So if you put a scout close enough for a squad sight sniper to peg them over and over, they literally can do nothing. I'd expect that would change very soon--at least if you hurt them they should react.
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Aug 24, 2017 23:36
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marshmallow creep posted:Someone said earlier that Rulers only have reactions now--no regular actions--and only get those reactions if they can see them and those actions cause them damage. So if you put a scout closer enough for a squad sight sniper to peg them over and over, they literally can do nothing. I'd expect that would change very soon--at least if you hurt them they should react. Rulers never had regular actions, only reactions. And they've only confirmed that actions outside of LOS don't trigger a reaction and reloading, everything else is still fair game. So moving in their LOS still will or healing etc. Also stuff can damage them without causing a reaction if it doesn't take an action point. So Lightning hands or throwing the Hunter Axe.
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Aug 24, 2017 23:39
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Zore posted:Rulers never had regular actions, only reactions. And they've only confirmed that actions outside of LOS don't trigger a reaction and reloading, everything else is still fair game. So moving in their LOS still will or healing etc. Yeah, even before all this, I've managed to activate them with a ranger, use Conceal to have them re-enter concealment, then start shooting at them with snipers. They did nothing. So this revelation is nothing new; it's not even a new discovery. EDIT: Incidentally, before the update (no idea if WotC will change this), the Rulers did get actions on the enemy turn based on how many actions you DIDN'T take on your turn; so if you ended your turn after only moving/doing something with one soldier, they'd get a bunch of actions in a row.
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Aug 24, 2017 23:42
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Zore posted:Rulers never had regular actions, only reactions. And they've only confirmed that actions outside of LOS don't trigger a reaction and reloading, everything else is still fair game. So moving in their LOS still will or healing etc. Does moving not count as an action? I thought they could move on their own, even without a reaction. Obviously they can path into you--does activating the ruler take that away and mean they only react after that? I modded rulers after the first time I beat the game with them in play so I can't remember.
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Aug 24, 2017 23:47
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marshmallow creep posted:Does moving not count as an action? I thought they could move on their own, even without a reaction. Obviously they can path into you--does activating the ruler take that away and mean they only react after that? Yeah, once they activate they stop moving except as a reaction.
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Aug 24, 2017 23:48
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Also, someone strip out the cool new Long War 2 loading screens and put them in their own mod.
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Aug 24, 2017 23:56
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I'm really encouraged to hear the new expansion lets you get individual soldiers even half as overpowered as what you could do with gene therapy in EW.
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Aug 25, 2017 02:11
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marshmallow creep posted:Someone said earlier that Rulers only have reactions now--no regular actions--and only get those reactions if they can see them and those actions cause them damage. So if you put a scout close enough for a squad sight sniper to peg them over and over, they literally can do nothing. I'd expect that would change very soon--at least if you hurt them they should react. That's cheesy but probably not that imbalanced with the time limit, since unless you bring multiple only that sniper is doing damage each turn.
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Aug 25, 2017 02:36
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Fangz posted:That's cheesy but probably not that imbalanced with the time limit, since unless you bring multiple only that sniper is doing damage each turn. Yeah, like I said above, the whole "shoot them from afar using a concealed scout" thing is already possible, and yes, they just sit there until they see a new target; even if they've already been activated; they will get their reaction, but will actually skip their "turn" without doing anything. I revealed the Viper King with a ranger, re-concealed him, and started shooting him with two snipers. He just sat there getting shot and burning until he said "nuts to this" and opened his portal to leave.
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Aug 25, 2017 02:59
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Fangz posted:That's cheesy but probably not that imbalanced with the time limit, since unless you bring multiple only that sniper is doing damage each turn. In WotC Ruler's can only ever be found guarding Alien Facilities, which have no time limit. Honestly I wish they had done just that and not touched anything else about Rulers. It's easy to take pretty much zero damage from Rulers as long as you can have some teammates just not act each turn (in fact, on Legendary I took literally zero damage from the Viper King). The main thing that made them a problem was when they popped up alongside an aggressive timer. But punishing reloads and movement creates these really fun puzzles with ordering and which soldiers should just sit idle and those puzzles generally did have solutions that left your squad in good shape. But, hito posted:Unfortunately, the Alien Hunters steam page has tons of negative reviews from people who couldn't handle rulers, so I think they're probably just going to be nerfed into the ground ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I think the gameplay team of a AAA company like Firaxis probably gets significant pressure from on high to "fix" a Mostly Negative/Mixed reviewed DLC on Steam, even if the fix is "No interesting puzzles involving ordering and selective activation because turns out most people suck at ordering and will always activate all soldiers, then write negative reviews"
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Aug 25, 2017 03:04
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My only real issue with alien rulers on legendary was that they show up absurdly early. You run into the Viper King in month 2. That's just ridiculous. Its an absurdly hard encounter at a point in the game where you really can't afford to fail a mission. That said; hito posted:Honestly I wish they had done just that and not touched anything else about Rulers. It's easy to take pretty much zero damage from Rulers as long as you can have some teammates just not act each turn (in fact, on Legendary I took literally zero damage from the Viper King). The main thing that made them a problem was when they popped up alongside an aggressive timer. But punishing reloads and movement creates these really fun puzzles with ordering and which soldiers should just sit idle and those puzzles generally did have solutions that left your squad in good shape. I'm not sure about this. Even under ideal circumstances I always got beat up pretty badly by the alien rulers on legendary. You're right that if they are alone, they create an interesting situation where having a soldier skip their turn is a viable action. But they don't show up alone. They show up with a bunch of friends. When the archon king floats in with his 3 of his pals, you don't have the luxury of skipping turns to give him less actions. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Aug 25, 2017 |
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Aug 25, 2017 03:10
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Is Shen's Last Gift worth blitzing a new game over the weekend to see the story? I enabled it mid-game when it first came out and got my free SPARK with no context. Eurogamer says that's how it works from now on in WotC. We also don't get the initial snake lair / Vahlen backstory...?
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Aug 25, 2017 03:41
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