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fatherdog posted:Nah. As someone who's done aikido for going on 20 years, worked security, and trained with a couple of special forces dudes, the amount of time is key. One year of aikido isn't going to get you fighting ready like a year of BJJ or MMA, but five years + is when it starts being effective. I was in the old thread and people told me it was bullshit and go train at a real gym and see how it worked out. So I did, and cross trained for a bit because people were telling me it wouldn't work. I handled myself just fine, but in the end I prefer aikido. I may go to a different gym at some point, because I do agree that cross training helps everyone. The gym just wasn't my favorite I suppose. This by no means is meant to say that I haven't gotten my rear end kicked many, many times in both aikido and in the gym I trained at for a couple of months. But when it's come to street fights (aka real world applications) Or when I needed to prove a point about it being effective, I've been fine. In other words, as a self defense, aikido has been effective long term. What I don't consider is that there has been a ton of cross training along the way. Plenty of teachers in aikido I've had striking backgrounds (Kung fu, Karate) and taught proper striking technique as well. I have seen plenty of (bullshit) aikido along the way, but characterizing the whole art as bullshit is a bit much. One of my favorite stories an aikido instructor told me. Guy is getting into an argument with another guy at the bar, and it's getting heated. Guy turns to the other guy and says "do you know I'm a black belt in..." and doesn't finish the sentence because the other guy hits him in the face and knocked him out. I don't brag about (being a black belt) or even that I do a martial art in the real world. But lord, do I know a lot of BJJ people who do. Most of whom don't know about my background. In a (real world) scenario, (it's those type of guys) that go down fast. LionArcher fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Feb 21, 2017 |
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Feb 21, 2017 20:49
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Novum posted:They don't teach timing in aikido? They do. My point being that a lot of the techniques are technically hard to apply.
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Feb 21, 2017 21:06
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ImplicitAssembler posted:This is my take on it too. In order aikido to be implemented in any realistic manner, you need to cross train. The point remains, though, that you are much better off doing a MMA variant than aikido, if you want it to be practical at all. I think you threw in the last part because of the walking dead garbage use of a jo. Lol.
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Feb 21, 2017 21:33
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KildarX posted:Does Aikido even practice against resisting-uke? A lot of the techniques that I've seen, the principles behind a lot of the throws are sound i.e guy starts resisting backwards so you allow that while tripping him, but I'm not sure efficacy against a resisting opponent can be reached, without practicing against a resisting opponent. Yes, there is resisting uke practice. There's all teaching counters to techniques being applied. One of my favorite instructors is a retired police officer. He's great at resisting techniques and showing how to apply it correctly.
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Feb 21, 2017 22:28
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kimbo305 posted:What are the best videos showing proper aikido sparring and drilling? I can't think of a single one. I've heard there's a French instructor who has very solid videos, but judging from this thread it might be a lot of (lol that's fake) But I don't go looking for them either. There was a VHS of Segal when he was very young and actually solid, before he became a fat crazy person. Fun fact, trained with a couple of his students at a big expo ten years ago. They were major jerks.
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Feb 22, 2017 01:43
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willie_dee posted:I find it hard to understand the theory of cross training Akido. Because in your scenario you get arrested for assault and if I had to end the situation it will look like I did some sort of weird lock on them and won't get charged with assault.
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Feb 22, 2017 02:34
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willie_dee posted:Nope, if some dude attacks me im not thinking "gosh I wonder how this will look to witnesses, better use a joint lock so it doesn't appear as if I am fighting back all that hard", im defending myself hard and not taking any risks. I don't know how big you are that you are so confident with your joint locks against anyone and everyone, but if some 260lbs line backer is coming at me, I don't think any joint locks or BJJ techniques are going to look any less assaulty than punching. I'm in the low 200's, very broad shoulders and 6ft. I've been in dozens of confrontations when I worked security, and worked with police. For me personally it's been effective for self defense, but a lot of that is Philosophy. I've defused a poo poo ton more altercations by being funny and talking people down. By that same token, a lot of those fights I engaged in were because another security poo poo head who did BJJ or MMA were proving they were tough, and made the situation worse. I'm not saying for somebody starting off that doesn't have my Organization around that it's the best self defense art. I'm just saying that there are still plenty of aikido practitioners that are solid martial artists, and can handle themselves just fine.
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Feb 22, 2017 03:34
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Siivola posted:The Martial Arts Thread: Just Steal Running Shoes. Lol. Perfect. As far as other comments, a couple of things. First, somebody said being low 2000's and over 6 shouldn't be training at all, what's up with that? Another person mentioned I was being dense, but I think more of an honest misunderstanding. I'm not surprised people showing up at random BJJ dojo are getting their asses kicked. Most good aikidoi I know that have been training a long time are all set, and aren't worried about sparring. Whether that's because they are police and former military who saw it worked enough at their jobs, or because they do have an inflated sense of how good they are, doesn't really matter to me. What matters to me personally is wether I can walk down the street and feel like I'm safe, and can protect those with me. The truth of the matter is that for pure practicality in man hours to be "good at self defense" learning boxing and training with a pistol and conceal carrying is the most practical. I honestly would and (did because those drunk guys I was dealing with doing security? Some of em were MMA and BJJ guys and it went fine) face whoever it was on the street, if I had to. (Key word there). That includes the guy who has been doing BJJ for 20 years, but that's also because I'm a weird test case. I started training when I was 8, and if it's (real world) vs sparring in a gym, it's a different category. I'm not saying I'd not get hurt, (if it's a good MMA or BJJ guy I'm sure I would) but I'm the one walking out of that encounter. As for the other points saying that it sounds like I was bad at my job for getting in all those encounter working security, here's the thing; a lot of it was an Irish pub where for the first two years there were a couple of bartenders that liked to over serve it's cliental, in a kind of funky area of Oregon where there's a lot of dudes who work out and drive around in their trucks and not much else. I"m honestly surprised that more fights didn't occurre. As far as someone claiming that I was giving aikido credit for something they could learn in fifteen minutes online, lol. Learning to properly de-escalate the situation in theory vs reality is a very different skill set. Doing it a lot is the only way to really get good at it, but I fully credit the aikido background for helping me get a jump start at getting good at it. Again, I'm not saying I think it's the best art, or that I could jump into a MMA fight and be certain I'd win. I'm just saying some of the times you guys have ragged on aikido because (it looks fake) or whatever is maybe not giving it any credit. And again, just because I think if I knew I was getting into a street fight with someone with the same amount of training in another art that I'd be okay doesn't mean a random rear end in a top hat with six weeks of boxing and MMA couldn't tap me on the shoulder on the bar and knock my rear end out because I'm not expecting it. I certainly don't go walking around telling people I do a martial art. And I'll say it again, I do plan on doing more cross training in the future, but running a business and thinking about moving to a real city has taken a lot of my free time lately. If/when I move to LA/Portland, I'll look for a good school that's not aikido to join to do more cross training.
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Feb 22, 2017 20:50
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CommonShore posted:I should add that I want Aikido guy to keep participating in the thread. I hate how every 6 months a different Aikido guy posts and gets dogpiled for a few days and disappears. I appreciate it. I hope in the near future we can change the subject to something else though. Even if I'm not posting on this thread I do lurk. Most of you guys seem pretty cool 
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Feb 22, 2017 20:52
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Mechafunkzilla posted:fwiw owning a handgun is one of the worst things you can do from a self-defense standpoint I'm talking about training with one extensively with trained experts blah blah blah. Not just buy one and go out twice a month shooting. I agree that's loving stupid.
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Feb 22, 2017 21:02
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kimbo305 posted:LionArcher and other aikido practitioners -- Watched the videos. I know I'm late to the discussion. It looks like aikido, just sloppy. His stances between engagement indicate he looks like he's done no cross training, and indicate a lack of sparring practice. His answers are okay, execution is flawed, especially of the locks. The two I saw that were obvious if applied correctly should have taken him down. The strategies look like someone who would get corrected by an instructor afterwards. If it's not strictly aikido techniques, (aka the attacker is from another art) as is this case, there's two major theory camps with the aikido circles I run in. One is let them come to you, which he does. The other camp moves towards them without engaging, but basically trying to bluff them into an appealing attack. The second camp is almost always people who hold rank in other arts, (Kung fu, judo, and karate seem to have the largest cross over to aikido). They are also far more likely to just strike if they see an opening. As an aside from the other guy who worked security at a college bar, we did have terrible security when I started working there. Almost all of the bad poo poo (aka the first two years) happened when I first started working at the bar, and a lot of it was escalated by a couple of other security guards and some off duty cops that were buddies of theirs who would pick fights with meatheads. Once those security guards were fired (and two bar tenders who would over serve) and me and a few others who were more... level headed guards were the only ones working, the rate of fights fell exactly into your category. As for fights I actually engaged in that started with my interactions, it was the same as you. I think four? I'm fine being called a poo poo head and all that.
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Feb 23, 2017 22:19
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CommonShore posted:Heh the Aikido apologist I know IRL is like 6'5" and 250 lb. And you've got me in this thread at 6 ft and 210. (I'm cutting to 190ish starting tomorrow). Which is funny, because my head sensei is about 5.9 and would be BRUTAL in a sparing match. He's a fast sixty year old who also has a black belt in karate, and is nasty when you spar with him. (He does this sometimes with hire ranks). Chances he'd do a wrist lock or two and if it didn't work he'd just out strike the other person.
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Feb 28, 2017 23:58
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JaySB posted:I know that you're defending your art and sensei and all but have you ever seen him spar with someone who's of similar skill level in another martial art? Or even a similar skill level in Aikido Yes. Dude did so with another black belt (cross trainer in aikido, he's a sensei in Karate and owns a dojo). My sensei got him to tap out.
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Mar 1, 2017 00:46
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hi liter posted:At the risk of being a pedant, but this move is uchimata sukashi - counter to uchimata, a technique which Inoue is possibly the all time master of. Agree with all of this.
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Mar 1, 2017 00:55
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