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NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009




Doctor Who loving sucks! (note: Not endorsed by Jersualem.)

Yes, it's that time of year again, right after the Doctor Who season ends, when your old pal/guy who's always wrong about DW Toxxupation comes and reviews every single garbage bad stink episode of Series Ten. Like last year, Oxxidation had the good sense to drop out of this nightmare, so I'll be joined by forum mod Jerusalem this time around. Same format as always, however: Jerusalem and I will watch every single episode, write reviews on them, the thread'll call me crazy, there'll be a bunch of arguing. Repeat twelve more times.

What the Hell is This: A Newbie's Guide

In case you're new and/or just decided to click on this thread in the TV/IV subforum, first off: Get out while you still can. Only death awaits. Secondly, welcome. This is a review thread for the Doctor Who reboot, wherein I, Toxxupation, watch all the episodes of a given season of a given TV show, then write incredibly long, overly verbose reviews of the same.

I've done this a couple of times before: you can check out my Last Man Standing review thread (seasons 2 and 3) here. It's goldmined so you should be able to read it regardless.

After the LMS thread I was the victim of what can only be adequately described as "a swindle" that got me to review the entirety of the Doctor Who reboot. I did that. You can (and probably should, if you're not familiar with DW) read it here (requires archives). All the straight-up reviews are linked in the first post, so you don't have to read a 377 page thread from end-to-end, because that's insane. Also, fair warning: My first couple seasons of reviews are not great; there's too much emphasis on summarization (something I eliminated from the reviews as they got longer/more analytical), and reading them now the summaries have aged especially poorly.

Beyond that, I slowly fell in love with (after virulently hating for like half a decade) Doctor Who over the course of the thread. There's no pretense now; I love Doctor Who, even though and often especially because it's a bad show for idiots, I love writing about Doctor Who, and apparently people love reading my thoughts about Doctor Who, if only to tell me how wrong my opinions are.

Last year (2016), I decided to finish what I had started and reviewed the entirety of Series Nine immediately after it finished airing. You can read the thread here (requires archives). The reviews are a lot better, and I'm pretty proud of it, especially the one I wrote about "Heaven Sent".

Series Ten of Doctor Who has just finished airing stateside, so Jerusalem and I are gonna review the entirety of the season, starting with the 2016 Christmas special ("The Return of Doctor Mysterio") and through the twelve episodes that make up Series Ten, once a week. My scale is A-B-C-D-F, no pluses or minuses.

In between the 2016 thread and now, I found I missed the dynamic that Oxx and I had (and I felt like it made both the reviews and thread itself more interesting when each episode had reviews from two different perspectives), so I asked Jersualem, Guy Who Reviews DW Episodes For Funsies In His Free Time, to join me. Like the cool dude he is, he agreed, so we're going to proceed through this season the same way the old, first thread had: I'm going in blind, Jerusalem has seen the season as a whole, and we'll be writing from those unique perspectives. My reviews will be heavily reactive, focusing on my immediate perspective knowing little-to-nothing about what comes next, and J-ru's will be more long-view, dealing with the overall themes of the season as a whole and his opinions about it.

Thread Rules:

  • There used to be two, but it's a simultaneously Sisyphean and Icarus-ian task to ask people not to be a Comic Book Guy about Doctor Who (and downright hypocritical at this point, as the number of words I have written exceeds the length of Moby Dick), so now there's just one. It's unbreakable. NO loving SPOILERS. I used to do summaries, but now I don't, so I'll post a link to the Wikipedia summary of the episode I just watched after I watch it. Until then, consider everything that happens, on any level, in any of the thirteen episodes I have not watched to be verboten to discuss. No spoiler tags, nothing. Impressions are spoilers, saying "I can't wait till he gets to X" is a spoiler. Don't be sly, don't "spoil without spoiling", don't make "clever jokes". If your post has literally anything to do with an episode I haven't watched don't post it. If you are at all concerned that it might break the rules, either don't post it, or better just quote it and discuss it in one of the two other Doctor Who threads on this subforum. To be clear: this isn't for me, most of the time I'm utterly indifferent to spoilers and if anything I kinda hate spoiler culture. The stringency of the rules is because most of the other people in this thread like to see my reactions to things in as pure a state as possible, and people are often interested in my writeups because they're removed from general consensus in any way. So, really, if you spoil me, you're not ruining my enjoyment; you're ruining everyone else in the thread's enjoyment. Don't be That Dude.

    Also if I wanna be 100% honest I don't like not being able to read my own thread. The spoiler problem is a problem this thread has always had, so please don't break the rules if you can help it. I'm fine with, and have before, closed this thread if and when it gets bad. I mean, we literally have a SA forums mod who is not only reading but writing for this thread, so don't break the rules. Don't be a dick, don't be weird, don't be creepy, just don't. Just chill and chat about DW, without being stupid assholes about whether or not Moffat is good or bad or whatever the gently caress.

    For clarification, anything that happens in anything that isn't the upcoming thirteen episodes of Series Ten is fair game. Classic Who, RTD Who, Series Five, Six, Seven, Eight, or Nine, the comics, the audios...literally everything that isn't in Series Ten, you can discuss freely. The only time it becomes sticky is when it's spoiler-adjacent; if you discuss a story or work that was in some form of Who before that Series Ten uses in some way, feel free to discuss it, but try and not mention the fact that it's used in an upcoming story/episode.

  • Still don't insult Rory Williams you horrible fucks

Stuff I Was Inadvertently Spoiled On:

With that all being said, most of the people who read this thread want to know how much I actually know about a season before I watch it. Because I follow television news really intently, I ended up spoiled as just a matter of course from reading Onion AV Club. For those people, here it is, stuff I already know going into this season (Again, this is stuff I'm saying that still falls under the "no spoiler" rule. Don't confirm, deny, or talk about them, this is just a list):
  • I know it's Moffat's last season. I know Chris Chibnall, guy who wrote the godawful Silurians two-parter in the otherwise perfection that is Series Five, is the new showrunner.
  • I know that Bill, black gay(?) woman, is the new Companion. I know that Matt Lucas features heavily in this season.
  • I know that it's Twelve's/Peter Capaldi's last season.
  • That's it.

That's literally all I know. I know nothing about what's in the season, I don't know any twists about any episodes, I don't know who the next Doctor is, I don't know if the next Doctor has been announced. This is the least I've ever known about DW in the past...like...ever? I guess? I mean, I know practically nothing about Series Ten.

Update Schedule:

Like last year, Jerusalem and I plan on updating once a week, typically Saturdays. We will be reviewing each episode individually (no bunching of two-parters, one episode a week, one review per episode). I'll be posting my review first, then Jerusalem will post his right after.

A Note

Usually I post a review thread with a review already in the can, but I'm not doing that this time to surface the fact that idonotlikepeas is running the traditional "Doctor Who Guessing Game". Details below. First review will be up this Saturday, July 8, 2017.

If you want to know what to expect to calibrate your guesses better, here:

Although I disagree this is a weakness due to my ideological view on how episodic works should be appraised, many people find fault with how I'll grade an episode removed from context or expectation. In other, simpler terms, I find that just because something might be or "will be" paid off in the future does not make a "bad" thing that happens now any less bad.

By the way I'm "Toxxupation", "Occupation", or "Occ". If you read people referring to one or more of these terms, that's me. Or "Lick! The! Whisk!" I guess. I change my username a lot.

Review Archive:
1000, "The Return of Doctor Mysterio" Jerusalem's Review

NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at Jul 10, 2017 around 17:02

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Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Anybody remotely interesting is mad in some way or another.


Episode 0: The Return of Dr. Mysterio
Episode 1: The Pilot
Episode 2: Smile
Episode 3: Thin Ice
Episode 4: Knock Knock
Episode 5: Oxygen

Jerusalem fucked around with this message at Aug 17, 2017 around 13:19

idonotlikepeas
May 29, 2010

This reasoning is possible for forums user idonotlikepeas!


HEAR YE HEAR YE HEAR YE

As in the last two threads, it is possible to be rewarded for your ability to psychically predict what Toxx will think about each episode. Or to just guess blindly and hope for the best. The way this works is simple: you send me an e-mail or PM with your guesses as to what letter grade (A-D or F) Toxx will assign each episode, and I score you based on how close you are. The winner will receive universal acclaim from the two or three people who care and an almost meaningless prize from me!

Here are the official rules:

* The episode list for the purposes of this contest starts with the 2016 Christmas Special ("The Return of Doctor Mysterio") and ends with the last episode of Season Ten ("The Doctor Falls").
* Send your guesses via e-mail to my SA username @gmail.com or via PM on SA itself or via any other means of contact you happen to have for me. The best format is your SA username on the first line and one vote per line thereafter, but I'm not too picky. The subject of every mail or PM should include the phrase "Season Ten Guessing Game" so I can keep track of them.
* You can vote on each episode at any point before the review comes out, which means you can watch along with the reviews (or at least a little bit in advance). In other words, you don't have to send me the full list right away, as long as you vote for the episode at some point before it gets reviewed.
* One vote per person per episode. You cannot change your votes for any episode once you've sent them to me. So you can vote all at once right at the beginning, or space it out and vote in batches, or vote before each episode, but once I receive your vote for an episode, you can't edit it later. Be sure before you vote!
* Each vote has to be a letter grade, A-D or F, no half-step grades or other cutesy stuff. I reserve the right to interpret any such attempts in the worst way and/or make fun of you if you try it.
* You get one point for every step by which your grade differs from the one Toxx assigns in either direction. So if he says C and you said B, you get one point, and if he said A and you said F, you get four. The winner is the person with the fewest points at the end.
* If you don't get a vote in on any episode, you will automatically get four points for that episode even if that would otherwise be impossible. Obviously, Toxx is under no obligation to inform anyone in advance when he's doing reviews, so it's to your advantage to get your votes in as early as you feel able. This also means that you can enter the contest late, you will just get four points for any episodes already reviewed. Based on past contests, that would not actually eliminate you from contendership, so please do get in even if you're late!
* You have to have an SA account to participate and you must provide me with the username of this account.
* In the unlikely event that Toxx changes a grade, the final grade will be used and the points will be updated.
* Actual time travellers are prohibited from voting. We're on the honor system here, people. Don't ruin it for everyone else.

Current Standings:

cargohills: 2
jng2058: 2
Llab: 2
all-Rush mixtape: 3
Big Mean Jerk: 3
thrawn527: 3
Blasmeister: 4
The_Doctor: 4
WeirdSandwich: 4
2house2fly: 5
adhuin: 5
Red Metal: 5
Senerio: 5
And More: 6
AndwhatIseeisme: 6
Rochallor: 7
Stabbatical: 7
Wolfechu: 7
bsam: 9

idonotlikepeas fucked around with this message at Aug 16, 2017 around 19:32

Big Mean Jerk
Jan 27, 2009

MENTALLY
DEFEATED


Grimey Drawer

Your best bet is to guess the complete opposite of what a normal human being would rate these episodes

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


Ok, I'm getting in on the game this year.

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

I'd really recommend waiting for the Christmas special since that's going to be the real finale, but I'm interested to see what you have to say about this run so this is a pleasant surprise

Celery Jello
Mar 21, 2005


Slippery Tilde

Oh man, I love this and I am looking forward to it.

Occ how do you do Twitter, you seem like you get it and I never have, please do a review of Twitter

cargohills
Apr 17, 2014



Is it already policy of yours to not watch the next time trailers? If not then it really should be. They spoil quite a lot this series.

NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009


Celery Jello posted:

Oh man, I love this and I am looking forward to it.

Occ how do you do Twitter, you seem like you get it and I never have, please do a review of Twitter

10 Hate yourself.
20 Hate neoliberals.
30 GOTO 10

cargohills posted:

Is it already policy of yours to not watch the next time trailers? If not then it really should be. They spoil quite a lot this series.

I don't watch the trailers unless specifically instructed to, no. I also don't watch any extra canon/shorts or whatever unless the thread tells me to.

Sushi in Yiddish
Feb 2, 2008



Toot toot once more unto the breach lads

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

I don't think they've done any shorts since the Matt Smith days. Probably budget cuts

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

He who fights shitposters should see to it that he himself does not become a shitposter. And if you gaze for long into an anidavatar, the anidavatar gazes also into you.

2house2fly posted:

I don't think they've done any shorts since the Matt Smith days. Probably budget cuts

They've done a handful (eg The Doctor's Meditation before season 9). There was one done for the first episode of this season that ended up being a reworked version of a scene in the released episode.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Anybody remotely interesting is mad in some way or another.


Lick! The! Whisk! posted:

I don't watch the trailers unless specifically instructed to, no.

In that case I will specifically instruct you right now DO NOT WATCH THE TRAILERS. A lot of stuff gets given away and I'll love to see how you react going in clean.

Senor Tron
May 25, 2006

send em back to Islamistan or some shit

Jumping in on the AVOID THE NEXT EPISODE TRAILERS LIKE YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT train.

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

Doctor Spaceman posted:

They've done a handful (eg The Doctor's Meditation before season 9). There was one done for the first episode of this season that ended up being a reworked version of a scene in the released episode.

drat it I also forgot about the series 9 prologue which has one of my favourite dialogues in it:

OHILA: Will you go?
DOCTOR: No.
OHILA: Why do you always lie?
DOCTOR: Why do you always assume I'm lying?
OHILA: It saves time. The truth: will you go?
DOCTOR: No.
OHILA: When?
DOCTOR: Soon.
OHILA: Why? Did something happen?
DOCTOR: No.
OHILA: Was it recent?

jng2058
Jul 17, 2010

Power Gamer for Hire


Whoo, we're back! Especially with the season so fresh in my mind, I'm really looking forward to the dual reviews!

Vanderdeath
Oct 1, 2005

God was a dream of good government.



I doubt it would've fit but the title for this thread should've been "Time Lord Forgive Me But I'm Back on my Ol' Bullshit" imo

I'm really looking forward to y'all getting back into the quagmire that is Doctor Who.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


2house2fly posted:

drat it I also forgot about the series 9 prologue which has one of my favourite dialogues in it:

OHILA: Will you go?
DOCTOR: No.
OHILA: Why do you always lie?
DOCTOR: Why do you always assume I'm lying?
OHILA: It saves time. The truth: will you go?
DOCTOR: No.
OHILA: When?
DOCTOR: Soon.
OHILA: Why? Did something happen?
DOCTOR: No.
OHILA: Was it recent?

God, it's like reading Beckett.

BSam
Nov 24, 2012



Got my voted in!


The ""Next time" trailer was amazing in the middle of the Family of Blood two parter. I don't feel like any others did anything fun and special.

BSam
Nov 24, 2012



Lick! The! Whisk! posted:


Still don't insult Rory Williams you horrible fucks


Who?

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

He who fights shitposters should see to it that he himself does not become a shitposter. And if you gaze for long into an anidavatar, the anidavatar gazes also into you.

Glad this is back.

BSam posted:

The ""Next time" trailer was amazing in the middle of the Family of Blood two parter. I don't feel like any others did anything fun and special.
The one for Blink was pretty good too, but most of them are just a series of scenes with some dialog.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


edit: learn to read the OP, Doctor.

The_Doctor fucked around with this message at Jul 3, 2017 around 09:38

cargohills
Apr 17, 2014



Decided to go for the tried and true guessing game method of grading them according to how much I liked them. By "tried and true" I of course mean that this hasn't worked once and typically leads to me being near the bottom of the leaderboards.

NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009


Vanderdeath posted:

I doubt it would've fit but the title for this thread should've been "Time Lord Forgive Me But I'm Back on my Ol' Bullshit" imo

I'm really looking forward to y'all getting back into the quagmire that is Doctor Who.

God, it should have been.

idonotlikepeas
May 29, 2010

This reasoning is possible for forums user idonotlikepeas!


Seven entries in the contest so far; I've been replying to all of them, so if you don't get a mail or PM or whatever back from me, ping me to make sure I got it.

adhuin
Sep 15, 2008

Sobriety blows

Toxxupation posted:

Still don't insult Rory Williams you horrible fucks

Punching Hitlers is so overrated. What has he done for us recently?

Stabbatical
Sep 15, 2011



I've read a bunch of these reviews before but never posted. After having a read-through of your 2016 one, I'll take a go at the guessing game.

Edward Mass
Sep 14, 2011

"I saw Dallas Keuchel....THERE'S A BEARD!!!!!"


Gun Saliva

Entered the contest. It's hard to guess what Toxxupation is going to think about this series, for spoiler-y reasons.

AndwhatIseeisme
Mar 30, 2010

Being alive is pretty much a constant stream of embarrassment.


Fun Shoe

Oh boy, time to be wrong about Occ being wrong about Doctor Who again.

TinTower
Apr 21, 2010

You don't have to 8e a good person to 8e a hero.


BSam posted:

Got my voted in!


The ""Next time" trailer was amazing in the middle of the Family of Blood two parter. I don't feel like any others did anything fun and special.

I miss the old middle-eight trailers for all of the season 2 to 4 cliffhangers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXlEIUKIszg

I really don't like the post-season 5 trailers.

And More
Jun 19, 2013

How far, Doctor?
How long have you lived?


TinTower posted:

I really don't like the post-season 5 trailers.

I like the initial series nine trailer a lot more than most of the actual series.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bB8fh4QUy-A

Big Mean Jerk
Jan 27, 2009

MENTALLY
DEFEATED


Grimey Drawer

I'm in the guessing game for the first time, so here's to being completely wrong for the next thirteen weeks

CityMidnightJunky
May 11, 2013

Awww!!


I've been following this whole ordeal from the beginning, so about 3 years (loving hell) and it's just amazing from start to finish. Watching the journey from

quote:

I loving hate Doctor Who
to

quote:

I love Doctor Who
has been absolutely stellar, and you've completely nailed why I keep coming back to this drat show after periodically wanting to quit since about 2012.

I just have no idea what's going to come next. It could be Love and Monsters, it could be Heaven Sent, there's just know way of knowing. The uncertainty is, for some reason, irresistible, and and now I'm so invested in the character and the mythology that I'm never going to leave.

gently caress this show, it's amazing.

I'm not even going to try and guess what the grades are, I'm just going to put my own grades in and see how well we match up.

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

I did roughly that, with some mild increases or decreases in grade based on feelings from past reviews of similar episodes. I also forgot what my guesses were the instant I sent them, so it'll be fun to see what I'd predicted

keep punching joe
Jan 22, 2006

Die Satan!

Did Toxx ever get round to watching Adventure in Space and Time, and if so, can someone link me to the review?

And More
Jun 19, 2013

How far, Doctor?
How long have you lived?


keep punching joe posted:

Did Toxx ever get round to watching Adventure in Space and Time, and if so, can someone link me to the review?

I believe he has not reviewed it. Most shameful.

Craptacular!
Jul 9, 2001

Fuck the DH


I always thought he should watch it just because he seems to be a fan of TV production in general. The fact that it has any relevance at all to a show still being made that you're watching is simply sweeter.

Blasmeister
Jan 15, 2012



I always vote with how I personally rated the episodes, so that when Toxx scores it way differently it's not me getting it wrong, it's him.

Yvonmukluk
Oct 10, 2012

I think Charlotte might be...A MAVERICK!



keep punching joe posted:

Did Toxx ever get round to watching Adventure in Space and Time, and if so, can someone link me to the review?

Craptacular! posted:

I always thought he should watch it just because he seems to be a fan of TV production in general. The fact that it has any relevance at all to a show still being made that you're watching is simply sweeter.
By the same token, it'd be nice to see his thoughts on The Writer's Tale.

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Sushi in Yiddish
Feb 2, 2008



Occ's reviews really drives home the "when it's good it's amazing but when its bad, holy poo poo is it bad" aspect of doctor who

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