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Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

Please tell me where in the game I can look up what the low habitability penalty is. Because I sure dont see what it is when looking at one of my slaves that is on a 20% habitability planet.

Hover over the habitability number of a planet with less than 100%.

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Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:





Still nothing. I know low-hab pops take a productivity penalty because I saw it in a dev diary/in this thread. I see nothing in the game telling me that the pop is negatively affected in any way.


Yami Fenrir posted:

Hover over the habitability number of a planet with less than 100%.

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

???

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

Armadillo Tank posted:

I've found that Machine Empires simplify things a lot (as they should). They are also stronger than most empires (Its late but there could be a big "implicit story" rant of either removing organic limits for a perfect warfighting empire vs doom or rejecting armed conflict, and how this is "good" because of that).

This leads to a weird problem were most of my militarism in old 4x games was based on bad AIs being really aggressive. In stellaris i turn into this huge blob armed to the teeth and just stare at my neighbors with a creepy smile and a big sign that says "TRY SOMETHING BUDDY". They never do. (by the time they all ally they have become pacifists, because in stellaris peace doesn't make races complacent and forget how war is terrible and encourage militarism)

Hoo boy. Machine empires. I've spent a lot of time with them and... holy poo poo.

A certain relic is waaaay too good for them. I've gotten to the point where i managed to have a ringworld fully repaired in 2290, having completely run away with tech to a downright stupid degree.

They're so overpowered that even AI machine empires manage to keep up with the player a lot of the time.

Also, i agree - empires kind of are too passive. One thing I've found to help is to not build a fleet and hide behind bastions. It seems the AI doesnt properly take them into account.

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

RagnarokZ posted:

Aren't habitats still kinda poo poo? Their housing limits are so painfully small that you end up running out of homes to fast it really isn't funny.

I am kind of at this conclusion. So far i came up with 2 uses: trade (with enough non-event bonuses you can cram full commercial zones + stock on it) and maybe livestock storage?

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

GunnerJ posted:

One thing that seems like a clear immediate goal for the devs that would do a lot of good is making the AI better at planetary development because then players could automate that poo poo with confidence.

This.

Just this.

Did you know that Lithoids automation builds food? All the food.

See, because they haven't even bothered changing that from standard organic empires.

At the very least I ended up with a 500 food surplus while losing 400 minerals as the automation replaced roughly all of my production.

It's so bad.


Another thing that's bad: The launcher.

See, I'm often playing with mods. A lot of mods. But three days ago, it just started automatically disabling one of my mods. No matter what I set it to.

So I tried a bunch of things, like resubbing to the mod, deleting the mod files in question, and so on.

It just broke it worse.

Now the launcher is ONLY enabling that mod, and automatically disabling all others.

Does anyone know how to fix this? I can't seem to find mention of the issue anywhere online.

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

I believe I was using the sector automation. I vaguely remember people saying it's a lot worse than the planetary one?

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

The way trade works is the following: Each trade hub does increase the collection range, as mentioned. this starts with 0 hubs, aka the starbase system itself. So it'll collect up to 6 systems away.

You want to avoid having long snakey lines. Because this means a lot of trade is going through chokepoints, which attracts piracy. You can sometimes re-route trade routes via the trade view but it's super fiddly.

Additionally, bastions help you fight against piracy. Any gun module will give you 5 trade protection AND a wider trade potection range (+1 each, just like the trade hubs)

Additionally, both trade and protection WILL trace through gateways and wormholes. So in the midgame you can actually just build gateways close to bastions and your trade hub to reduce number of trade starbases needed and overlap protection to make piracy nonexistent.

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

Natural 20 posted:

In addition you can set up a single bastion to give massive trade protection to all your trade lanes.

I'm getting back into this. I'm still building tall because I find generating an early tech advantage with no chance of anyone wardeccing me allows me to expand later much faster.

Is the admin cap ascension perk still strictly better than the research perk?

Ditto expansion over discovery for the same reasons.

Edit: Also has Arcology been nerfed yet or is it still the go to to instantly win the game?

Honestly i think its the other way around. Tech over admin imo. Expansion first will forever be a no brainer the way its set up

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

It's amazing when dig sites spawn in the border region of a xenophobe fallen empire too so you judt dont get tl dig that stufff up for most of the game.

Or inside.

I've seen relic worlds or even just precursor dig sites spawn inside marauders or even fallen empires too. Hooray for just not getting those while they're at all relevant!

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

cock hero flux posted:

does taking Tomb World adaptation and then using Orbital Bombardment as Aggressive Terraforming still work? If so that's definitely a way to speed it up.

Concussive terraforming still works, yes. It does require purifiers or equivalent however.

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

Martout posted:

yeah one of the main reasons I play mostly gestalts is to have fewer types of resources to manage

This is secretly why machines are so stupidly good, imo.

You save SO MUCH building/district space not having to build consumer districts. You can get a tech advantage ridiculously fast.

The fact that you can grab ALL the planets and eventually have ALL the energy and mineral districts ever just means your early advantage can be translated into a late one, too.

Don't even get me started on a certain precursor event chain reward, though.

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

PittTheElder posted:

With Scaling on they're just never competitive though.

I may need to go get that scaling difficulty mod, see if I can crank the late game bonuses somehow.


The Cybrex presumably? Last game I played I had already researched Mega-Engineering before I got the last precursor anomaly (circa 2300). Admittedly I did forget you can use minor relics to trigger those now, I probably could have received it much earlier had I remembered.

Also I haven't got the First League in so damned long. Just want those sweet sweet Relic worlds.

Yes. It has to be the best precursor chain by far. Even if you arent a machine it's still ridiculously good. For machines its just straight broken.

I managed to repair a goddamn megastructure in 2270 because of them, and grab galactic wonders right afterwards.

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

standard.deviant posted:

Same deal for purge jobsóbeing exterminated is just another job at the end of the day.

it even does it for pre sentients, which is super annoying.

Also I just want to point out that machines are so overpowered that the AI can actually use them and noticably keep up with the player. Every single game i have one they're way ahead of all other AI.

That's an achievement in it's own right for the stellaris AI lol.

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

Btw, I've been trying to play megacorps and I've just kind of been failing. Their penalty just seems way too big considering you're practically expected to go over admin cap.

I really want to like the government type but it just seems so fundamentally flawed to me.

Can anyone give me some tips? The best i can come up with currently is to... wait for the dlc and spam admin cap jobs as a trade league.



Speaking of which i do wonder if gestalts get those jobs too. They seem, once again, better for them than for base empires.

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

Can't you just give them citizen rights to stop any rebellion?

I usually just do that and have never seen a rebellion.

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

ShadowHawk posted:

Yeah but if you do that they start demanding consumer goods and more amenities.

Better than a rebellion.

Also by the time you get synths you should have your economy in order

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

Just stop being dicks to your robots or you'll prove the Determined Exterminators right.

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

Agent355 posted:

So I'm a bit more used to your Endless Space games and Civ games than the grand strategy ones.

It seems like there is only score victories in this game so I feel a little bit aimless once I get out of the real early game.

Am I supposed to be trying to win by min maxing resources, taking all the land I can possibly take and trying to snowball an economy or is it more like rimworld or something where I should be more invested in the 'story' of a campaign than actually trying to just win.

One other thing, how do I actually turn resources into production/power/literally anything? I can turn one resource into another resource at the market but I don't see a way to speed up unity production with energy credits or anything. So if my economy is pounding away and I'm running out of space to store all my space bucks I don't really know what to do to take advantage of that.

E: is it just buildings on colonies to make resource consuming jobs?

The general idea is that districts (the squares) produce base resources and buildings use the base resources to make other stuff. For Unity you usually build Monuments or Holo-Theatres. Some specific civis/empire types have different things you can use.

Most important is your alloy production, after that comes research, then everything else, imo.

As others have said it's mostly about surviving (to) the endgame crisis.

If you just go ham taking over everything you will probably go insane micromanaging it. I personally take like ~10 planets and some nice chokepoints usually. It's usually enough.

If I'm just producing too much of any one resource I usually sell them and buy more alloys. Only relatively late will you have more alloys than you know what to do with, and they are always useful.

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

I've heard spamming corvettes until you can spam battleships is the way to go.

I usually put anti shield on my corvettes and lasers on my battleships.

Not claiming to be an expert on it though, im simply not.

Are strike craft and missiles actually worthwhile yet?

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

Blind Rasputin posted:

You guys talk about this game like itís one of the most complex 4x games on PC right now. Like, the stuff you all describe just blows my mind. Maybe console edition is just much more simple? Or do these things like (complete machine cultures and all sorts of the other stuff you guys talk up) come way late game? How long does it take in hours played of one game to get to that stuff? It all seems like a really really slow crawl through research and the snails pace of colonizing new worlds and struggling with resource micromanagement.

I watched a thing about the megastructure dlc and just.. just canít fathom how in heck anyone could ever afford those things. Are there seriously upgrades to mining that make each spot of land pump out 1000 minerals each per tick or something?

Maybe Iím just missing something the first time through is all, itís super fun and engrossing but feels ultra slow.

It is pretty slow. I dont think the game is all that complex, in fact i often find the depth a bit lacking.

Your income ramps up quickly due to having more planets and there being research for getting more resources per miner/technician/etc.

For instance, you start with like 20 to 30 mineral income but can ramp it up to 200 pretty quick. 500 is usually fairly easy to get.

Alloy production is a bit more difficult but keep in mind that megastructures take a LONG time to build.

I usually aim for 500 alloys per month or so, it's enough to cover your needs most of the time unless you're upgrading citadels while building megastructures and building battleships.

Anything more tends to be wasteful and end up disappearing into the void of the resource cap, i found.

There are also 2 megastructures, the dyson sphere and the matter decompressor, which upgrade your base income tremendously.

Ecumenopolis help your alloy production a lot as well.

Machine empires are from the synthetic dawn dlc.

Yami Fenrir fucked around with this message at 10:51 on Dec 15, 2019

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

Vargatron posted:

Anybody have any guides for planet/sector management in the game? I'm wanting to learn how to build and specialize planets without tanking my base economy by making too many specialist buildings. Also, are sectors actually good for automation, or should I just use them for the governor buffs?

1. Build districts, but don't overbuild them. They're the biggest source of your base resource bar megastructures.

2. Don't build too many buildings. Sounds obvious, but it's actually a good idea to not use all your building slots right away, especially super early. Especially specialist or ruler jobs will immediately steal away worker pops, something you do not want!

3. Automation remains utter garbage to the best of my knowledge.

4. Try not to overexpand - each colony in their early stages will drain your resources before growing into a productive planet. Especially relevant for machine empires, I found.

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

I still find this to be hysterical. Who thought arming everything you build in a system was a good idea? Now its just the basic outpost claiming the system but its still kinda comical because if you bring ~10 PD you can ignore it.

Asteroids are comical, too. Unless the planets are in really unfortunate positions, an unupgraded Starbase can usually destroy one.

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

QuarkJets posted:

The fleet manager seems kind of buggy right now

In my new game I somehow managed to remove all of the units in a fleet without disbanding them, causing two interesting things. The less interesting one was that A) that fleet can no longer be reinforced and doesn't appear in the fleet manager at all. The more interesting thing is that B) moving any of those original ships to a different fleet causes that new fleet to disappear from the fleet manager, too, which is only fixable by removing the offending ships. Eventually I resorted to just disbanding those problematic ships.

In my previous game I had a fleet at 163/200 command limit. My theory is that I deleted those shipyards while they were responsible for upgrading that fleet, causing things to get into a buggy state? So I had a fleet that was permanently at -37 strength, but I was about to win anyway so it didn't matter.

Oh it gets so much worse than that. It'll also create phantom fleets sometimes, that you have to manually delete. Or try to reinforce maxed out fleets, which causes new 1 ship fleets to be created. Or create new fleets for each singular ship that stupidly decided to go into enemy territory while reinforcing.

And that's before federation fleets get involved.

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

Hey so question, I remember like a year ago after they went to hyperlanes-only there was talk of having fortress worlds where you could chokepoint a system with a colonized planet and a stronghold on it that would prevent the enemy fleet from hypering out, requiring them to bring an invasion force that could invade and occupy the planet... did that get patched out or something?


I ran into multiple of these last night, it was enormously frustrating. Then I thought "okay, think I've got the fancy loving ~fleet manager~ figured out now," so I went to build a new fleet homebased at this system and ".......where is it? why the gently caress am I out of resourc- why the gently caress is the game trying to double every existing fleet?? gently caress this" and quit to desktop.

I get what they were going for with the fleet manager but as it stands it is more frustrating than the old 1.x model.

Also the UI around trade routes and piracy where I have to select a starbase and click on the trade routes button to see which systems are experiencing piracy... what the gently caress, man.




Gonna be honest, as someone whose very first direct exposure to Paradox strategy games was Stellaris, I have no investment in the rich and storied heritage of ~~*~Paradox Grand Strategy Games~*~~, find them byzantine and unapproachable, and would probably not be interested in Stellaris 2 if it was "Hearts of Iron 4, In Space".

In order:

#1: You need the upgraded version of a fortress (requires a strategic resource)
#2: Upgrading your fleet to the current template seems to fix a lot of the reinforcement issues.
#3: use gateways and/or your capital as the trade hub to eliminate a surprising amount of piracy problems. Still a pain in the rear end, though.

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

CainsDescendant posted:

There's a mod for that, Automatic Pop Migration. In vanilla pops will never move on their own.

I've recently found this mod and now the game is basically unplayable without it for me.

And I don't even usually play wide empires.

Why is something like this not baseline since, IDK, literally forever?

Also shut up about the combat already, there's been enough of a pointless circlejerk as is.

When I see new posts I'd like to read relevant things instead of a few adults going "no u" over and over or whatever it is you're doing.

Yami Fenrir fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Dec 30, 2019

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

ShadowHawk posted:

Planets will stop growing if you exceed the housing limit by a certain percentage. You're most likely to hit this if you neglect a new colony by not building any housing at all, otherwise you have to be quite in the negative on available housing. I think you can still build robots in that case, though.

There's nothing stopping you from force migrating even more people onto an overcrowded planet, but you'll take further stability penalties. Since stability raises output of everything, it's generally not worth it.


The weirdest gamey exploit with overcrowding/unemployment is to get all the +pop growth due to migration bonuses (diplomacy tree, corvee system, pop trait). Then you overcrowd a few planets such that your pops try to emigrate from there to other planets you own, where you'll get a larger bonus to growth than you lose. The game is literally modelling +50% faster reproduction due to having to travel to another planet. You need to have enough spacious planets to not hit the +5 from migration cap though - the game is also perfectly happy to throw pops into the void by having -6 emigration from one planet and only +5 (max) at another.

This is something I noticed as well - the nomadic/sedentary traits actually just pull/throw pop growth from/into the void, which is kind of funny.

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

Zodack posted:

Wait, so Immigaration/Emigration being a stat means... what, from other Empires, I guess?

Also, wrt mods I have Stellaris on GOG and Steam, but all my DLC is on GOG. I noticed save files and custom Empires appear for both, would Steam workshop mods also work that way?

Honestly, I have no idea. There's both immigration within your own empire (What CainsDescendant described), but there's also immigration pull. A lot of those modifiers are planet wide, but some (such as one of the megacorp branch office buildings and a megastructure) are empire wide, which presumably means it affects other empires.

What it actually does?

No bloody clue. I'm fairly sure it's literally never explained properly ingame how cross-empire immigration works. I tried to have an empire based on massive immigration bonuses before, too, and it barely did anything despite having migration treaties with most of the galaxy.

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

Gadzuko posted:

I'm fairly sure cross empire migration isn't modeled at all, unless migration treaties provide a growth bonus. There's no such thing as real pop migration any more. You just lose growth from emigration and gain it from immigration, but actual pops don't move from one place to another. As far as I know migration treaties just increase the variety of pops available. The immigration system has been... dare I say... abstracted

But then, what are empire wide immgration pull bonuses for? They have to be pulling them from other empires, right?

... this system is so arcane. I almost prefer the old version, as annoying as it was.

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

DasNeonLicht posted:

Really? I assumed that if overcrowding gets bad enough, emigration would exceed population growth and give me a negative population growth value.

My core sector worlds just got full and I was hoping this is what would happen. I'm playing a liberal, freedom-of-movement / no-population-controls empire ó am I just going to have to deal with unemployement and overcrowding in my capital until the end of the game?

yes.

Enjoy the unemployment benefit events! And the crime! It's not miserable at all.

I like the job system but this one part makes me miserable late game.

This is why I always have resettlement on, even on liberal empires.

It's simply a necessity.

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

ShadowHawk posted:

The way migration treaties work is that they make both partners eligible migration targets. Pops that have migration disallowed still won't move. You won't lose pops, but you might lose growth if you have a lot of push due to overcrowding.

They're most relevant if your partner has a bunch of new colonies (which give them migration push), or in the late game when they're overcrowded, or if you want their pop types in your empire (such as for habitability)

The point of empire-wide migration pull bonuses is that they prevent you from losing pops (because your planets pull exceeds push) and that when pops do leave a planet they're more likely to land on yours.

Well, that's kind of meh.

At least you immediately get to colonize with their pops, i guess.

Also re: planet build speed, are you sure it doesn't work? I feel like it does. I may not be the best judge of it, though, as i tend to just queue up whatever building necessary and then ignore the planet. It's rare to have to build a lot of buildings anyhow, the bigger issue are the stupid city districts for ecumenopolis'.

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

Okay, I did some testing on Planet Build Speed.

It does work.

Sort of?

My starting point for an Alloy Foundry was 240 time units.

Then I got the +50% build speed technology.

Now the planet says it will take 160 time units to build.

When I actually build an Alloy Foundry, it actually takes 180 time units to build.

I don't have any planetary modifiers that'd change that, so... I have no idea. At the very least it DOES lower the build time, I guess?

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

I see Zro more than I see Living Metal tbh.

I wish i saw Living Metal more cuz it's infinitely more useful, imo.

720 days per megastructure, anyone?

You can get it even lower, technically. Possibly down to a year or less, even.

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

The trick is to be a fanatical purifier. You are saving the galaxy from bad performance by eradicating the main source of lag, the filthy xenos.

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

Grouchio posted:

Are 2000+ system galaxies still unplayable a century in? Even with those performance mods?

Oh the game is mostly fine a century in.

It's 2 centuries in where your cpu starts begging for mercy. Even on mediun which has like, 1k stars?

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

The game is fun but pretty shallow. After a while you will know all the events, all the digsites, all the everything.

However, mods can fix a lot of the problems. I absolutely fell in love with gigastructural engineering, guilis planet modifiers, and starnet ai improvements, for example.

Plus the new dlc should hopefully shake things up quite a bit. The bureaucrat job, while kind of being a sucky implementation, might actually make megacorps a lot more playable.

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

GunnerJ posted:

For what it's worth, a friend of mine picked up Stellaris again after trying it a year or more ago and told me "wow with all this new DLC, Stellaris is good." Was an interesting contrast to this thread.

This actually was my reaction as well. I've stopped playing the game around the time they nerfed Tachyon Destroyers into the ground and picked it up again only recently. After a while you start noticing the problems that remain but it's legitimately much, much better than it used to be.

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

NihilCredo posted:

I started my first Stellaris game in like two years and I've got a Grand Dragon hanging out over my relic planet, while my fleet cap is like 70 so I'm NOT gonna get rid of it soon.

So I'm just wondering, is it gonna chew up my colonists at some point, or will it just be happy to block trade until I get around to killing it? And does it make a difference if my scientist begged for her life or told him to gently caress off? I've noticed by savescumming that if she begs, in addition to staying alive, the dragon counts as a neutral fleet, but it still blows up my system starbase so it doesn't look like it changes much.


It'll just sit there looking scary. If you colonized the planet already you're mostly fine. Begging for mercy buys you some time, while just NOPING out ot there makes your science ship engage emergency ftl.

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

NatasDog posted:

The Khan's supposed to be a mid-game threat, right? I think it's a pretty good barometer for how well the galaxy's doing overall in that light. I only play MP anymore, but depending on how you, your fellow players, and whatever random AIs are populating the galaxy are doing, the Khan can be a huge pain in the rear end or a complete pushover. I mean, I guess the reformation phase could be handled better, but at that point it's just a cleanup exercise anyway.

The Khan's actually a huge non issue as long as you're not a purifier type or in a federation. Since you can just surrender to him and all.

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Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

TommyGun85 posted:

I think I missed this "Khan" as I have no idea what anyone is talking about.

It's a mid-game crisis event that requires marauder empires to be able to spawn, which I believe requires one of the dlcs.

At some point of the game a Khan will rise, unifying one of them genghis khan style and try to conquer the galaxy, spawning a huge amount of fleets to do so.

Honestly, though, the implementation is horrible.

Either you surrender to them (temporarily losing some income but being 100% safe from them), have a fleet/bastion strong enough to kill them (in which case this self-proclaimed "military genius" will suicide themselves into the same death trap twice), or you aren't even on the same side of the galaxy as him to just wait them out, as [spoiler] they'll eventually die from old age, disease, assassinations, or whathaveyou.)

The worst thing you can do is try and actually fight off this enemy that is stronger than you, as you can't exactly guerilla warfare anyone with fifty billion freespawn fleets they throw into every direction all the time.

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