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Backhand
Sep 25, 2008


Holy poo poo, so I finally got over it and spent the night learning / practicing how to play Huntsman Kruber.

It goes without saying but your burst potential is just unreal once you figure out the right talents / gear. And with Scrounger, Prowl is effectively infinite ammo for as long as it's up... Meanwhile, the main reason I was worried about switching away from mercenary was the fear of losing all that wonderful cleave versus hordes, and it really doesn't seem like I'm much weaker in that regard. I can still pull out my halberd and dice infinite numbers of slave rats pretty drat easily. Definitely flimsier, but man, that ranged potential.

While Prowl was active, I was doing 23k damage per shot on the practice dummy in the courtyard. A normal quickshot to the body is more like 2.7k. That's obscene.

Backhand fucked around with this message at May 22, 2018 around 02:32

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Fuuka Ayase
Apr 25, 2017

Literally Hitler


Backhand posted:

Meanwhile, the main reason I was worried about switching away from mercenary was the fear of losing all that wonderful cleave versus hordes, and it really doesn't seem like I'm much weaker in that regard.

Because hordes don't matter. Even on low cleave weapons, a horde should be manageable enough using proper technique. Even a weapon like the dual daggers, specialized to hell in single target damage, can do it safely. There's very little excuse to die to normal enemies or get trapped by them. That's an error of negligence or improper tactic. Teams dying to it let it happen even if they didn't realize it. The real concern of VT2 is elites. Any setup that can't help take elites out efficiently is very possibly dead weight. Taking out horde so others can take out elites more safely isn't really helping. No one needs to be as good at it as Huntsman, but getting stuck on a single rothelm for a minute straight is a minute where you might as well have been AFK.

Consider this then consider why certain careers are so unpopular.. or entire characters are unpopular.

Arghy
Nov 15, 2012

Take it from me, you can get brain damage from rubber horsecock induced autoerotic asphyxiation.

Unchained sienna with mace is a loving wrecking ball easily the best tank, 2 light attacks are wide swings with great cleave and AP then a push attack reverts it back to wide swings. Just did war camp on champion without needing to be healed once which is likely because i'm hosting haha. Some insane poo poo with the specials though we had chain quad specials non stop from the first tome, literally a continuous spawn of specials.

Foehammer
Nov 8, 2005

We are invincible.



So this is probably already known, but, as Bounty Hunter, if you're zoomed in with the regular xbow, you can press and hold F to get super-precise, zoomed in targeting for your Locked & Loaded shot.

I assume it will be patched out shortly since fun is heresy.

Chakan
Mar 30, 2011


Foehammer posted:

So this is probably already known, but, as Bounty Hunter, if you're zoomed in with the regular xbow, you can press and hold F to get super-precise, zoomed in targeting for your Locked & Loaded shot.

I assume it will be patched out shortly since fun is heresy.

Yeah, you can also do it with a couple other weapons like elf bows.

I finally got a red, so now I'm thinking I want to go for all achievements, which means getting the rest of my classes from 15 to 30... and doing skittergate on legend, so I'll be on the discord tonight or tomorrow night (eastern time) to dismantle the skittergate, if anyone wants to join. I should be doing it tonight but it depends on whether my gf comes over, so no guarantees.

The Slack Lagoon
Jun 17, 2008



Chakan posted:

Yeah, you can also do it with a couple other weapons like elf bows.

I finally got a red, so now I'm thinking I want to go for all achievements, which means getting the rest of my classes from 15 to 30... and doing skittergate on legend, so I'll be on the discord tonight or tomorrow night (eastern time) to dismantle the skittergate, if anyone wants to join. I should be doing it tonight but it depends on whether my gf comes over, so no guarantees.

I'd be up for that

Skitter legend isn't too bad, as long as you don't get hosed with boss, hoard and 8 specis spwan at the same time!

I was playing legend skitter last night and it was going pretty well but our shade was poo poo and the bh we had wasn't doing great. Siena and me were doing well until I got caught off guard by a gutterrunner that didn't play ant sound and then a hosrd rekt me

Phlegmish
Jul 2, 2011



I'd be down to try Skittergate on Legend with some Eurogoons. It's the one achievement I don't have yet.

Sykic
Feb 9, 2004

Resist! Humanity demands it! Resist!

https://i.imgur.com/VIuJnKy.mp4

I swear to Taal

Lunethex
Feb 4, 2013

Me llamo Sarah Brandolino, the eighth Castilian of this magnificent marriage.

I like that the elf is dead in that.

SuperKlaus
Oct 19, 2005
Like Klaus but better

Coolguye posted:

hagbane elves can leave a gap in elite sniping on champion and legend

BH is super nice but the volley is now wholly outshined by the real boss killers for spike damage and the hagbane/conflag for crowd control

Hm? Is the hagbane not total rear end any longer?

Lunethex
Feb 4, 2013

Me llamo Sarah Brandolino, the eighth Castilian of this magnificent marriage.

He means that anyone using it isn't going to be focused on elites which matter much more than the hordes. The Hagbane is total rear end, nerfed straight into oblivion where it's sitting in smoldering patience until the day it can rise again.

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!


hagbane's dot actually got fixed in 1.0.8 to be not complete butt anymore. it now stacks properly (it didn't before) so it is effective against hordes and bosses.

you CAN kill elites with it but doing so can leave the elf a temporarily embarrassed millionaire in terms of ammo, even as waystalker. and loving lol if you try to use it as anyone but waystalker. but yeah, it's actually not ENTIRELY worthless.

Cowcaster
Aug 7, 2002

NO FILE


wait, does the DOT stacking mean it can munch bosses like it used to do to tanks in vermintide 1?

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!


Cowcaster posted:

wait, does the DOT stacking mean it can munch bosses like it used to do to tanks in vermintide 1?

it's not as pronounced as it was in VT1 but yeah a waystalker is now a Good Boss Class

toasterwarrior
Nov 11, 2011



God, loving same.

Willie Tomg
Feb 2, 2006

Do Randroids Dream of Objective Sheep?


So much in this game is broken or a WiP

But GOD HELP YOU if you're so much as a pixel off the immaculately faithful head hitboxes (Halescourge )

gimme the GOD DAMN candy
Jul 1, 2007

gimme those gat dang candies



i think i'll come back to this game when the balance patches are less dramatic in scope.

NightshadeGenitals
Dec 27, 2017

Star maths and wishy thinking

gimme the GOD drat candy posted:

i think i'll come back to this game when the balance patches are less dramatic in scope.

At the rate they have been going we should have a solid game in about a year. Unless they suddenly figure out the very complicated and esoteric technique of not reintroducing bugs they patched out several versions back.

Antares
Jan 13, 2006



If the game worked as intended it would be way too easy

Fishstick
Jul 9, 2005

Does not require preheating

The third enemy faction is Fatshark itself and noone is safe

Cowcaster posted:

wait, does the DOT stacking mean it can munch bosses like it used to do to tanks in vermintide 1?


There's 4? Dot ticks so you can only stack so many, but yeah. Fun facts: the dot damage doesnt seem to be affected by anything other than heropower (it was 400/tick for me on dummies with 600HP). This means it has no range dropoff penalty and does dmg to armor regardless if your initial impact shot has AP. Charged shots do have AP but only seem to increase the initial impact's damage

Fishstick fucked around with this message at May 22, 2018 around 17:18

Lunethex
Feb 4, 2013

Me llamo Sarah Brandolino, the eighth Castilian of this magnificent marriage.

Antares posted:

If the game worked as intended it would be way too easy

hosed up if true

AndyElusive
Jan 7, 2007



All bugs are kept in a data base that looks like the Ghostbusters containment unit and is at Fatskark HQ. Once the game is bug free a disgruntled ex-employee will release them all.

Digirat
Sep 14, 2011

stinking
rat-vole
rodent
piece of
TRASH


Antares posted:

If the game worked as intended it would be way too easy

Implying you, or we, or fatshark know what “intended” even is

Fuuka Ayase
Apr 25, 2017

Literally Hitler


Arghy posted:

Unchained sienna with mace is a loving wrecking ball easily the best tank, 2 light attacks are wide swings with great cleave and AP then a push attack reverts it back to wide swings. Just did war camp on champion without needing to be healed once which is likely because i'm hosting haha. Some insane poo poo with the specials though we had chain quad specials non stop from the first tome, literally a continuous spawn of specials.

Having an unnecessarily massive health pool doesn't stop the enemy from murdering your friends. Which is the problem I run in to. Taking no damage doesn't mean squat when you lack any tools that can turn a crisis around like everyone else has. Then you get the dubious honor of bragging you were the last survivor of a failed legend run. "I survived!" is a meaningless contribution without heavy lifting power. Which unchained lacks. It's far better to be squishy but have some source of heavy lifting capacity. There's a reason those kinds of careers are favorite picks.

You know what also doesn't use up healing supplies? A dead bot.

Fuuka Ayase
Apr 25, 2017

Literally Hitler


Willie Tomg posted:

So much in this game is broken or a WiP

But GOD HELP YOU if you're so much as a pixel off the immaculately faithful head hitboxes (Halescourge )

I'll be honest. If I am host on a webm, that's likely my terrible upload speed at work. Which is still the best upload speed money can buy where I live. God Bless America.

edit: I must also confess that if I am hosting we will probably lose. Enjoy your phantom hits and lag stabs, nerd.

Fuuka Ayase fucked around with this message at May 22, 2018 around 17:44

Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011


gently caress, just give unchained a firewhip and some claws or something.

Xaris
Jul 25, 2006


Jacking In
Jacking Out


Fuuka Ayase posted:

I'll be honest. If I am host on a webm, that's likely my terrible upload speed at work. Which is still the best upload speed money can buy where I live. God Bless America.

edit: I must also confess that if I am hosting we will probably lose. Enjoy your phantom hits and lag stabs, nerd.
What do you think of the supposedly hosting-vs-non-hosting Unchained passive bug? Can you tell?

Supposedly being the Host gives Unchained passives more damage than intended (doubled?). I mostly play her when hosting and I feel her power is about right for Legend at that level, so if her passives are actually doing more damage than intended when hosting and when/if they fix that, that's gunna suck.

e: Also had a weird rear end bug where I was hit with Stormfiends flames which put me into overheat--no problem I have my ultimate up! But then instantly exploded instead of the normal slow-ticking away uncontrollably before dying even while mashing the F key. I guess that's :fatshark: for you

Xaris fucked around with this message at May 22, 2018 around 19:34

Digirat
Sep 14, 2011

stinking
rat-vole
rodent
piece of
TRASH


Well what’s “intended” is up in the air. but testing on the dummy with mzbundifund had my damage go up by over 2x at max overcharge as host while his went up by less than 2x at max overcharge as client. Either of those numbers could be the “intended” one, or maybe it’s supposed to be a different number entirely. Who fuckin knows!!

SuperKlaus
Oct 19, 2005
Like Klaus but better

That's cool news. I loved Glaive + Hagbane in VT1 and now I was theorycrafting it would be even better because Waystalker F covers its special-sniping weakness. But testing in past patches showed what everybody said, that it didn't do poo poo to the hordes that are supposed to be its primary job, much less anything to jack up Roger like the good old days.

Xaris
Jul 25, 2006


Jacking In
Jacking Out


yeah originally i had in there (or maybe off-hosting is doing less than "intended"). I really think the hosting-damage feels right though and what you'd expect/need out of her to be useful, so hopefully thats the "intended" values.

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!


i had two hagbane elves as guests just yesterday and their damage was fine, so if there was any concern about that being a host bug thing then you can probably lay that to rest

Fuuka Ayase
Apr 25, 2017

Literally Hitler


I'm just going to size up the entire problem with Sienna and leave it at that. It's not even really an unchained issue.

No one needs to specialize in killing hordes. Even dual daggers, infamous single target weapon, can solo hordes. A runty neckbeard with an axe can solo a horde. This is not something you need to worry about so long as you apply yourself and use technique and strategy. Sienna's ranged specializes in horde chewing. Even her best elite/special slaying (note we're not on the subject of actives yet) staff can take several seconds to accomplish what everyone else can potentially do instantly if they are set up right. Several seconds in which you can't even move, and at the point people have to babysit someone to take out elites or specials, someone else should be doing it instead. So you should be chewing the horde which.. isn't a danger..and.. no one.. needs help with. O-oh. Right. Well, we have melee weapons. Of which the best horde slayer is mediocre at horde slaying, and the one that could potentially elite slay is mediocre even if every overhead is square on. Binding you longer to a tough enemy and preventing you from helping the team in any other capacity for a prolonged period of time. So you really should be focusing the horde instead and.. do that job no one needs you for.

For comparison, every other character has at least one ranged setup potent enough to snipe a special and kill it dead BETWEEN MELEE SWINGS. Granted, depending on who we are talking about this might be only at a certain range or require a bit of praying to RNG, but it's not unreliable to headshot elites and specials from the hip between melee swings without even having to dodge back first. At which point they can now go back to using their MUCH BETTER MELEE WEAPONS to chew the horde they don't need your help with. While also having some pretty potent actives depending on what career it is.

All Sienna has to her name is actives. One of the three is blatantly pointless. One only fixes the inevitable result of it's own self defeating play flow. The third is a homing mass murder machine except only when it feels like it. Even if you lock on with the skull, it tends to do what the gently caress it wants. If it kills the target you hit, even with a headshot, is random. If it headshots is random. If it bounces back in to saltpyre and murders him is random. If you can even lock on to what you need to is not random cause it doesn't favor heavier targets for the lock on. Meaning in a target rich environment it's hindered by what is standing in front of you. If a horde isn't in the way then no one needs you to do it. Might as well let kruber shoot it with his gun. At least that's sure to kill it and not your own team. Unless the kruber is an rear end in a top hat.

Sienna was formerly relevant with the beam staff, but that got nerfed several times because god forbid a ranged character have ranged damage. Sienna exists to be carried through legend and not realize she's being carried, "Oh but I took so little damage and did nothing wrong. What happened, team?"

Fuuka Ayase fucked around with this message at May 22, 2018 around 23:18

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!


the silly thing is that if the beam staff nerfs had focused on her shotgun blast (which was a weird addition to have to a weapon that literally has sniper on it) rather than the beam, which is the sniper part, it'd probably still be ok.

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Voyager I
Jun 29, 2012

This is how your posting feels.


I will concede outright that I am not nearly as experienced as Fuuka, but I'm not sure how much I accept the 'Hordes can be reliably trivialized' premise. Under ideal circumstances, yes, a horde can be managed safely by basically anything, but one of the typical run-enders in Legend is having a Horde come along when a boss / patrol / pile of specials aren't going to let you hold a chokepoint indefinitely.

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