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Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006


MY GIMMICK IS POSTING GIBBERISH



Yeah 100% agree the problem is with the concept of enemy levels at all. The idea that you start as a rat-catcher and end up a demigod can stay in the 80s.

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Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Shitposting 24/7 without regrets. my parents would be proud.


in 3 weeks we will get new cyberpunk news. yay.

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008


Dapper_Swindler posted:

in 3 weeks we will get new cyberpunk news. yay.

Watch, it’ll just be a tweet that says “Turn off your monitor “

Zeta Acosta
Dec 16, 2019




the first thing im going to do will be disable the enemy damage number thingie

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006


MY GIMMICK IS POSTING GIBBERISH



Zeta Acosta posted:

the first thing im going to do will be disable the enemy damage number thingie

The first thing I'm going to do is have a meltdown because they forgot to include an option to remove the enemy damage number thingie

Back Hack
Jan 17, 2010


Wicked Them Beats posted:

Unfortunately gamers were conditioned by other games to ignore warnings, so when the guy at Sloan says "hey buddy don't go north the things up there just get mad when you shoot 'em," your average player figured it was meaningless banter like in everything else they play and got wrecked by the baby deathclaw hanging out in the road.

The developers also put two very obvious alternate route through a canyon and one behind Goodsprings and peppered the beginning area with numerous stealthboys so they could proceed past that one dangerous route if they wanted to. People still bitched and complained that it was impossible to get past it.

Back Hack fucked around with this message at 18:56 on May 21, 2020

SniperWoreConverse
Mar 20, 2010






Gun Saliva

the true innovation away from levels and HP is dwarf fortress style health where if you get chopped by an axe you die because specific blood vessels rupture

chitoryu12
Apr 23, 2014



Back Hack posted:

The developers also put two very obvious alternate route through a canyon and one behind Goodsprings and peppered the beginning area with numerous stealthboys so they could proceed past that one dangerous route if they wanted to. People still bitched and complained that it was impossible to get past it.

One of my favorite moments in the New Vegas thread was a guy bitching so hard that it caused JE Sawyer himself to tell him how wrong he was.

Glenn Quebec
Oct 30, 2005

That's because our downstream reality reflects an upstream case but I'm going to violate it.

*is a bandit but it's late game so I come at u in daedric armor

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011

This avatar brought to you by the Lowtax Needs a New Spine Fund


Soiled Meat

genericnick posted:

It's been a thousand years, but I remember the books in Morrowind being much more interesting than anything they put in the actual game.

The same is true in Skyrim. They have such a rich canon, and absolutely fail to utilize it to create interesting quests.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk


Wicked Them Beats posted:

I prefer something like New Vegas which had limited level scaling: enemies scaled within set level ranges, so it was possible to wander into an area underleveled and get torn apart because the enemies there had a minimum level of 20, etc.

Unfortunately gamers were conditioned by other games to ignore warnings, so when the guy at Sloan says "hey buddy don't go north the things up there just get mad when you shoot 'em," your average player figured it was meaningless banter like in everything else they play and got wrecked by the baby deathclaw hanging out in the road.

That's how Skyrim did it too.

Wolfsheim
Dec 23, 2003

and god is on your side
dividing sparrows from the nightingales

ZZZorcerer posted:

This, character progress should be horizontal not vertical.
“Numbers go up” should be left behind

You're describing, like...Tomb Raider.

Which is fine I guess but that's a 15 hour game, I dunno how much genuine complexity you can keep adding for an 80+ hour game like W3 while eliminating levels/etc altogether

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011

This avatar brought to you by the Lowtax Needs a New Spine Fund


Soiled Meat

sebmojo posted:

That's how Skyrim did it too.

Did it? My strongest memory of Skyrim is that every single loving draugr eventually became an overlord or whatever the miniboss style variant was called.

Wicked Them Beats
Apr 1, 2007




chitoryu12 posted:

One of my favorite moments in the New Vegas thread was a guy bitching so hard that it caused JE Sawyer himself to tell him how wrong he was.

My favorite will always be the guy who was mad that he accidentally made his character gay because he didn't know what "confirmed bachelor" meant. Thought it was about bro-ing with the bros, and didn't understand what could possibly be gay about the icon being a vault boy giving another vault boy a massage.

I hope we get similar meltdowns from Cyberpunk.

genericnick
Dec 26, 2012



Glenn Quebec posted:

*is a bandit but it's late game so I come at u in daedric armor

I could have sworn that was also in Morrowind. I remember I had piles of Deadric armor that I sold piece by piece to the crab.

LGD
Sep 25, 2004




steinrokkan posted:

Did it? My strongest memory of Skyrim is that every single loving draugr eventually became an overlord or whatever the miniboss style variant was called.

its absolutely how Skyrim did it and it's very obvious and distinct from Oblivion if you go back and play them

draugr just have a level range of like 1-45 and Skyrim asks you to spend a lot of time poking around tombs, so they're one of the areas of the game where the level scaling is most apparent

but you'll still find weaker variants mixed in and eventually outlevel them, which was not the case in Oblivion, a game that was more than happy to have you accosted by epic bandits rocking full daedric armor (exacerbated by one of the worst-conceived leveling systems of all time, which made it stupidly easy to actively gimp yourself by doing the intuitive thing)

Skyrim also has a bunch of enemies with higher initial levels than draugr so encountering one of them is mega-bad (vs. Oblivion where it's often easiest to do things at a super-low level), and exploration is actually worthwhile because the loot is not (almost) purely level-based and indifferent to your location

LGD fucked around with this message at 21:14 on May 21, 2020

Voxx
Jul 28, 2009

I'll give 'em a hold
and a break to breathe
And if they can't play nice
I won't play with 'em at all


Wicked Them Beats posted:

My favorite will always be the guy who was mad that he accidentally made his character gay because he didn't know what "confirmed bachelor" meant. Thought it was about bro-ing with the bros, and didn't understand what could possibly be gay about the icon being a vault boy giving another vault boy a massage.

I hope we get similar meltdowns from Cyberpunk.

An NPC asked me if I wanted big bolt-ons and I thought I was going to get a cool gun upgrade!

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006


MY GIMMICK IS POSTING GIBBERISH



Wolfsheim posted:

You're describing, like...Tomb Raider.

Which is fine I guess but that's a 15 hour game, I dunno how much genuine complexity you can keep adding for an 80+ hour game like W3 while eliminating levels/etc altogether

What does leveling add to the equation except slight variance in difficulty? You're always gearing up and leveling skills to be at the appropriate difficulty for the zone. I honestly think that button mapping has a bigger affect on gameplay variety than leveling. Games that have very limited ability slots for their buttons constrain my play much more than differences in leveling scheme.

TheAnomaly
Feb 20, 2003


genericnick posted:

I could have sworn that was also in Morrowind. I remember I had piles of Deadric armor that I sold piece by piece to the crab.

Morrowind has something a little different - as you go up in level, the table for spawning enemies expands. So at level you 1 you hit little muddogs and those stupid cliffracers, but at level 45 you can still get the mud dogs and cliffracers, but you can also run into other adventurers, angry deadra, followers of the big bad guy, etc.

Each zone in Morrowind had a max scale for it's encounters ( so the ashlands started encounters at level 15 IIRC, even if you were level 2, and the red mountain started encounters at like level 25.

This is also why you ran into cliffracers god damned everywhere, because they were a flying enemy and were in every lower level spawn chart, and in many zones they were the ONLY low level spawn.

genericnick
Dec 26, 2012



TheAnomaly posted:


This is also why you ran into cliffracers god damned everywhere,

piL
Sep 20, 2007
(__|\\\\)

Taco Defender

SniperWoreConverse posted:

the true innovation away from levels and HP is dwarf fortress style health where if you get chopped by an axe you die because specific blood vessels rupture

Sanity and injury systems. By the time you kill 6,000 people and get to max level, your knees are busted so you can't run, you have trouble closing your left hand so you have to put your weapon away before interacting with objects in the game, and you're always suffering the effects of sleep deprivation or chemical addiction because when you close your eyes, all you see is their faces.

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011

This avatar brought to you by the Lowtax Needs a New Spine Fund


Soiled Meat

Or Caves of Qud style system where if your head hurts you tear it off and eat your hands to keep yourself from dying.

Cactus
Jun 24, 2006



I love that this thread has become a Bethesda Games Survivors group.

the_enduser
May 1, 2006

[CENSORED]
(Content Violation)



Hello, I've been Bethesda free for 3 months. I think a lot of my problems was my father was a heavy Bethesda user and i used to think playing Bethesda brought me closer to him. I hope one day to reconnect with my ex-wife and get my kids back.

frajaq
Jan 30, 2009

#acolyte GM of 2014



Cactus posted:

I love that this thread has become a Bethesda Games Survivors group.

they all gonna play TES 6 when it comes out

dublish
Oct 31, 2011



piL posted:

Sanity and injury systems. By the time you kill 6,000 people and get to max level, your knees are busted so you can't run, you have trouble closing your left hand so you have to put your weapon away before interacting with objects in the game, and you're always suffering the effects of sleep deprivation or chemical addiction because when you close your eyes, all you see is their faces.

Unnecessary. I already see the faces of every NPC I've killed in the faces of every new one I encounter.

HiroProtagonist
May 7, 2007

This is an accurate representation of my current level of enjoyment.


Arglebargle III posted:

Yeah 100% agree the problem is with the concept of enemy levels at all. The idea that you start as a rat-catcher and end up a demigod can stay in the 80s.

look at this upper crust fool who doesn't think it's possible to become a demigod rat catcher.

Cactus
Jun 24, 2006



frajaq posted:

they all gonna play TES 6 when it comes out

me too ... me too.

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008


frajaq posted:

they all gonna play TES 6 when it comes out

TES 6 is going to consist of an intro dungeon that ends in a fade to black, then you hear "Hey, you, you're finally awake"

ufarn
May 30, 2009


frajaq posted:

they all gonna play TES 6 when it comes out
only if they fix ladders and all faces don't look like melted candles anymore

Mike the TV
Jan 14, 2008

Ninety-nine ninety-nine ninety-nine



Pillbug

Sorry guys but with all this talk of Elder Scrolls and Fallout, I need to remind you that Metroid Prime is the best FPSRPG series ever made

Rinkles
Oct 24, 2010

What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?


Mike the TV posted:

Sorry guys but with all this talk of Elder Scrolls and Fallout, I need to remind you that Metroid Prime is the best FPSRPG series ever made

Wouldn't that be Prey?

Mike the TV
Jan 14, 2008

Ninety-nine ninety-nine ninety-nine



Pillbug

Rinkles posted:

Wouldn't that be Prey?

Prey is amazing, but the IP is probably dead

WhiskeyWhiskers
Oct 14, 2013

CHOO! CHOO!
TANKIE COMIN THRU!




Rinkles posted:

Wouldn't that be S.T.A.L.K.E.R?

Cactus
Jun 24, 2006



Mike the TV posted:

Prey is amazing, but the IP is probably dead

I kinda got bored of Prey. Not sure what I was doing wrong, but I felt like I had too much freedom which led to choice paralysis and some of the enemies would still kick my arse no matter what I tried.

SniperWoreConverse
Mar 20, 2010






Gun Saliva

frajaq posted:

they all gonna play TES 6 when it comes out

Word on the street is it's gonna suck way worse than oblivion and be released in 2025 at the earliest

Mike the TV
Jan 14, 2008

Ninety-nine ninety-nine ninety-nine



Pillbug

Cactus posted:

I kinda got bored of Prey. Not sure what I was doing wrong, but I felt like I had too much freedom which led to choice paralysis and some of the enemies would still kick my arse no matter what I tried.

It took a while to click for me, but it was really worth it once you realize that exploration comes first.

It's also the only game I've played where the DLC is arguably better than the base game.

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006


MY GIMMICK IS POSTING GIBBERISH



Mike the TV posted:

Sorry guys but with all this talk of Elder Scrolls and Fallout, I need to remind you that Metroid Prime is the best FPSRPG series ever made

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

TURDS BOD


Sometimes when I was playing Dishonored or Prey, I would have a moment where I felt both empowered but also challenged, and I would shiver, and realize that was just me remembering what Metroid Prime felt like. Jesus Christ that game fucken SLAPS

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Toxic Fart Syndrome
Jul 2, 2006

*hits A-THREAD-5*

Only 3.6 Roentgoons per hour ... not great, not terrible.




...the meter only goes to 3.6...



Pork Pro

We're talking about Prey 2006 right?

grieving for Gandalf posted:

I just hate fighting level 5 city guards now and coming back to the same area later and they're level 20 city guards. what changed in story to make these dummies tougher?

This was something I really liked about MMORPGs back in the day...I remember in Anarchy Online you could come back to town and kill the guards when you got to a high enough level!

I wonder how this will work in Cyberpunk, if areas will have set NPCs with rhythms, like Radiant AI, or more like a GTA game with randomly spawning ~filler~ NPCs.

chitoryu12 posted:

One of my favorite moments in the New Vegas thread was a guy bitching so hard that it caused JE Sawyer himself to tell him how wrong he was.

Link please!

Bust Rodd posted:

Sometimes when I was playing Dishonored or Prey, I would have a moment where I felt both empowered but also challenged, and I would shiver, and realize that was just me remembering what Metroid Prime felt like. Jesus Christ that game fucken SLAPS

We're talking about Super Metroid right?

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