awful programming: feature flags and suffering

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > awful programming: feature flags and suffering

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pokeyman: Nov 26, 2006; That elephant ate my entire platoon.

Soricidus posted:

"just give them on error resume next. i'm sure everyone will definitely check the err object at appropriate times instead of just taking it as carte blanche to ignore everything and hope for the best"

also the meeting at golang world headquarters

# ? Jan 13, 2019 18:00

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# ? Apr 29, 2024 05:06

FlapYoJacks: Feb 12, 2009

I went from telecom in the Midwest with a company of 35 to Electric Vehicle Service Equipment in SoCal with a growing company of 98 that just closed series B and has contracts with 23 fortune 100 companies including Amazon.

Also, I now have a full team of, continuous integration, unit tests, coding standards, processes, documentation, and a boss that, so long as the work is complete, don't give a poo poo how few hours I work. (I average around 30 a week.)

I am quite happy right now.

Unfortunately; I have a feeling that I won't be sharing any more anecdotes about the Ex-Company. There is only one ex-coworker left that I talk too, but it's not on a regular basis. More than likely the company will either sell itself or start selling its Ballards to other companies and stop making its products.

Part of me is a bit sad, from a personal pride level. It�s always neat to have your product out in the wild. I worked hard on it, and there is a lot of excellent and innovative code in it. The architecture was clean, and the security is quite remarkable. The product was just underfunded and needed at least three full-time software engineers to make the product shine, but that would have required competent management.

Oh well. I learned a fantastic amount there; not just programming and systems management wise, but also about how not to manage a business and employees.

I also feel like I lost the last bit of the nativity I had when it came to being a company man. Thanks to the current company, I have a lot more self-respect, and will gladly walk a lot sooner if things ever start to go sideways.

Hopefully, I can pass these experiences off to my kids, as they are 18, 18, and 21, and shouldn't have to go through the stress, depression, and anxiety I endured to learn all of this. :v:

# ? Jan 13, 2019 18:16

Schadenboner: Aug 15, 2011; by Shine

ratbert90 posted:

Hopefully, I can pass these experiences off to my kids, as they are 18, 18, and 21, and shouldn't have to go through the stress, depression, and anxiety I endured to learn all of this.

A CJ who let he own children grow up to be CJs. A shameful CJ.

# ? Jan 13, 2019 22:31

abigserve: Sep 13, 2009; this is a better avatar than what I had before

Jabor posted:

What the hell sort of "unit tests" are you writing that you need to have them interact with a database?

I'm not sure I got back to this one but basically;

- I want to be able to test schema changes
- I want to make sure that said schema changes do not break my queries, for instance, conversion of column type int to bigint
- I call them unit tests because my application can interact with several types of databases (poorly!) so each one is tested as their own unit!

perhaps there is some way of doing all that w/o having an actual database but I can't think of one that wouldn't be more work than simply starting a database up

but this is for one of my hobby projects and not a huge enterprise application

# ? Jan 13, 2019 22:46

abigserve: Sep 13, 2009; this is a better avatar than what I had before

pokeyman posted:

also the meeting at golang world headquarters

golang error handling is so terrible if you're thinking about writing something in golang think extremely long and hard about how much error checking you want because this one attribute of the language might be enough to put you off

# ? Jan 13, 2019 22:48

feedmegin: Jul 30, 2008

elite_garbage_man posted:

One thing I like about Java is the great mocking libraries available. It blows my mind that poo poo like that isn't anywhere close to what we have for C++. More often than not it ends up being "Just make every function virtual lol"

To be fair this is exactly what Java did.

# ? Jan 13, 2019 22:49

Jabor: Jul 16, 2010; #1 Loser at SpaceChem

abigserve posted:

I'm not sure I got back to this one but basically;

- I want to be able to test schema changes
- I want to make sure that said schema changes do not break my queries, for instance, conversion of column type int to bigint
- I call them unit tests because my application can interact with several types of databases (poorly!) so each one is tested as their own unit!

perhaps there is some way of doing all that w/o having an actual database but I can't think of one that wouldn't be more work than simply starting a database up

but this is for one of my hobby projects and not a huge enterprise application

those don't sound like unit tests at all

# ? Jan 13, 2019 22:53

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

abigserve posted:

I'm not sure I got back to this one but basically;

- I want to be able to test schema changes
- I want to make sure that said schema changes do not break my queries, for instance, conversion of column type int to bigint
- I call them unit tests because my application can interact with several types of databases (poorly!) so each one is tested as their own unit!

perhaps there is some way of doing all that w/o having an actual database but I can't think of one that wouldn't be more work than simply starting a database up

but this is for one of my hobby projects and not a huge enterprise application

those are integration tests. there's nothing wrong with integration tests and they often have more value than unit tests, especially with code that is difficult to unit test.

# ? Jan 13, 2019 22:55

mystes: May 31, 2006

Soricidus posted:

"should we implement all visual basic's error handling modes?"
"nah, the ones that branch to an error handling subroutine like try/catch in other languages are too complicated, just give them on error resume next. i'm sure everyone will definitely check the err object at appropriate times instead of just taking it as carte blanche to ignore everything and hope for the best"
-- the meeting where microsoft put as much effort into designing vbscript as netscape put into designing javascript

Not that removing the other options would improve anything, but error handling is literally the worst thing about legacy vb. On error goto is terrible compared to try/catch.

# ? Jan 13, 2019 23:02

Blinkz0rz: May 27, 2001; MY CONTEMPT FOR MY OWN EMPLOYEES IS ONLY MATCHED BY MY LOVE FOR TOM BRADY'S SWEATY MAGA BALLS

abigserve posted:

golang error handling is so terrible if you're thinking about writing something in golang think extremely long and hard about how much error checking you want because this one attribute of the language might be enough to put you off

go error handling is fine albeit super verbose

handling panics in early versions was hot garbage especially since places in the stdlib and a whole bunch of 3rd party libraries used to use it liberally

# ? Jan 13, 2019 23:09

Powerful Two-Hander: Mar 10, 2004; Mods please change my name to "Tooter Skeleton" TIA.

I would settle for just "some tests" tbh. like any, any tests would be an improvement.

# ? Jan 13, 2019 23:36

abigserve: Sep 13, 2009; this is a better avatar than what I had before

Cold on a Cob posted:

those are integration tests. there's nothing wrong with integration tests and they often have more value than unit tests, especially with code that is difficult to unit test.

i'll start calling 'em that then!

# ? Jan 13, 2019 23:50

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

yeah tests are pretty great tbh

abigserve posted:

i'll start calling 'em that then!

cool beans

# ? Jan 13, 2019 23:51

akadajet: Sep 14, 2003

Cold on a Cob posted:

yeah tests are pretty great tbh

sometimes

# ? Jan 13, 2019 23:51

MononcQc: May 29, 2007

go error handling is so bad I will and have turned down job opportunities that otherwise could have been very nice because they use go.

it's some braindead poo poo.

# ? Jan 13, 2019 23:57

gonadic io: Feb 16, 2011; >>=

MononcQc posted:

go error handling is so bad I will and have turned down job opportunities that otherwise could have been very nice because they use go.

it's some braindead poo poo.

Literally me right now

# ? Jan 14, 2019 00:01

Soricidus: Oct 21, 2010; freedom-hating statist shill

mystes posted:

Not that removing the other options would improve anything, but error handling is literally the worst thing about legacy vb. On error goto is terrible compared to try/catch.

yeah, it�s very bad compared to most of the alternatives. I have written horrors in vba, many years ago. I remember how bad it could be.

it is, however, very definitely better than on error resume next.

# ? Jan 14, 2019 00:06

the talent deficit: Dec 20, 2003; self-deprecation is a very british trait, and problems can arise when the british attempt to do so with a foreign culture

DONT THREAD ON ME posted:

a ton of smart people have worked hard to make javascript usable in a browser. it�s much better than it used to be and it�s amazing what�s been accomplished.

but there are exactly 0 reasons to execute javascript outside your browser, there are so many better options. the only javascript you should execute outside your browser is your flavor of webpack, and even that should have been written in a good language.

typescript is the best language to write serverless stuff in, by a lot

# ? Jan 14, 2019 00:38

ThePeavstenator: Dec 18, 2012; Establish the Buns

terraform is pretty cool but the fact that any custom providers need to be written in Go is a significant black mark on it

double that mark for me since I taught myself Go in order to write a custom provider for it

# ? Jan 14, 2019 01:16

akadajet: Sep 14, 2003

Shaggar posted:

vbscript is unironically better than javascript

i don't believe you actually believe this

# ? Jan 14, 2019 01:45

Beamed: Nov 26, 2010; Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.

ThePeavstenator posted:

terraform is pretty cool

is it though

# ? Jan 14, 2019 01:54

DONT THREAD ON ME: Oct 1, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo; Floss Finder

the talent deficit posted:

typescript is the best language to write serverless stuff in, by a lot

this says more about serverless than it does about javascript

# ? Jan 14, 2019 02:26

Chopstick Dystopia: Jun 16, 2010; lowest high and highest low loser of: WEED WEE
k

I would rather people write unnecessary tests and test the language bullshit than at a previous job, where they wrote zero tests and regularly deployed poo poo that straight up didn't work.

# ? Jan 14, 2019 04:00

abigserve: Sep 13, 2009; this is a better avatar than what I had before

Beamed posted:

is it though

it's good but requires the user to understand it's mechanics at too low a level imo

by default it stores the statefile in a directory called .terraform in the working directory. it stores everything unencrypted in a json blob in said directory, including poo poo like keys that you have to pass every run anyway.

naturally this makes it trivially easy to accidentally check into version control - other developers may force or at least warn the client that hey, perhaps best to store state remotely or at least somewhere else on disk not in the working directory, when it runs. But hashicorp went a different route with it.

# ? Jan 14, 2019 04:30

The Leck: Feb 27, 2001

Powerful Two-Hander posted:

I would settle for just "some tests" tbh. like any, any tests would be an improvement.

still holding out hope that i will someday work on a team that has 1 or more tests on their code before i start there

# ? Jan 14, 2019 13:57

handle: Jan 20, 2011

is there an article for dummies about analyzing simple hashing schemes?

related: holy poo poo i finished microcorruption. time to retry cryptopals I guess!!

# ? Jan 14, 2019 14:22

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

this whole discussion is moot because in 12-18 months webassm and Blazor will be taking over everything and all the js devs will be making GBS threads themselves at having to learn c# (which won't actually be that bad because c# is super easy to learn)

*this is my headcanon don't ruin it*

# ? Jan 14, 2019 17:36

champagne posting: Apr 5, 2006; YOU ARE A BRAIN
IN A BUNKER

Finster Dexter posted:

this whole discussion is moot because in 12-18 months webassm and Blazor will be taking over everything and all the js devs will be making GBS threads themselves at having to learn c# (which won't actually be that bad because c# is super easy to learn)

*this is my headcanon don't ruin it*

there'll be a JS library for this don't you worry

actually lets have three equal but subtly different libraries for it

# ? Jan 14, 2019 18:44

Powerful Two-Hander: Mar 10, 2004; Mods please change my name to "Tooter Skeleton" TIA.

well looks like I'm the only person that tried to actually build our internal libraries for like, 5+ years because so far every single one has been targeting dotnet 3 or lower and they all fail when the latest versions of their own dependencies are added

super bonus annoyance: a service component that is actively used builds but does nothing, why? turns out that the logger code caught and ignored exceptions encountered while logging "incase the log dB is down" so if you encountered a fatal error in the logger it would just sit in a "running" state doing nothing forever!

and the actual error? "dependent library x threw an exception of invalid method :suicide:

# ? Jan 14, 2019 19:18

Soricidus: Oct 21, 2010; freedom-hating statist shill

Boiled Water posted:

there'll be a JS library for this don't you worry

actually lets have three equal but subtly different libraries for it

undefined.js, null.js, and ... uh ... ok i didn't think this joke through

# ? Jan 14, 2019 19:30

DaTroof: Nov 16, 2000; CC LIMERICK CONTEST GRAND CHAMPION
There once was a poster named Troof
Who was getting quite long in the toof

Soricidus posted:

undefined.js, null.js, and ... uh ... ok i didn't think this joke through

- brendan eich, 1995

# ? Jan 14, 2019 19:38

DONT THREAD ON ME: Oct 1, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo; Floss Finder

god why couldn�t it have been jwz

# ? Jan 14, 2019 19:49

carry on then: Jul 10, 2010; by VideoGames
(and can't post for 10 years!)

The Leck posted:

still holding out hope that i will someday work on a team that has 1 or more tests on their code before i start there

test cases last modified january 1998

# ? Jan 14, 2019 19:51

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

Finster Dexter posted:

this whole discussion is moot because in 12-18 months webassm and Blazor will be taking over everything and all the js devs will be making GBS threads themselves at having to learn c# (which won't actually be that bad because c# is super easy to learn)

*this is my headcanon don't ruin it*

# ? Jan 14, 2019 19:52

Powerful Two-Hander: Mar 10, 2004; Mods please change my name to "Tooter Skeleton" TIA.

Finster Dexter posted:

this whole discussion is moot because in 12-18 months webassm and Blazor will be taking over everything and all the js devs will be making GBS threads themselves at having to learn c# (which won't actually be that bad because c# is super easy to learn)

*this is my headcanon don't ruin it*

oh my god I really want to like the idea of Blazor now I've seen it.

Is the idea that it removes the need to integrate piles of ajax event handlers etc to do call out to a controller when doing anything dynamic on the page? how does that work with regards to accessing objects/properties from an event without reverting to the equivalent of viewstate?

edit: or I could just, you know, read the docs and figure it out. I hope they fixed razors lovely error checking where it will only tell you there's a problem when you hit the page and juts barf a massive stack about a rogue comma

Powerful Two-Hander fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Jan 14, 2019

# ? Jan 14, 2019 20:00

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

c# owns and i wish it was used more outside of line of biz coding because i really want to get out of line of biz coding

# ? Jan 14, 2019 20:02

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

oh my god they're officially including blazor (now called razor components) in asp.net core 3.0.

# ? Jan 14, 2019 20:06

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

rip in piss javascript

# ? Jan 14, 2019 20:07

DELETE CASCADE: Oct 25, 2017; i haven't washed my penis since i jerked it to a phtotograph of george w. bush in 2003

C# would be cool except lol if you develop on Windows or deploy to windows or have to work with people who willingly do either

# ? Jan 14, 2019 20:25

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# ? Apr 29, 2024 05:06

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

it would suck to not be able to afford windows and to have to use a Linux.

# ? Jan 14, 2019 20:26

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > awful programming: feature flags and suffering

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