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Cessna
Feb 20, 2013

KHABAHBLOOOM

Ice Fist posted:

I wasn't even really aware that anything important happened in 1812.

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PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

Yes, it's like a lava lamp.



golden bubble posted:

When you think about it, no one who matters lost that war , since the fate of Native Americans don't matter in things written during the 19th century.

Yeah, and the native american angle is one that should really be talked about more as we try to confront our colonial past. The native contribution to 1812 is a huge one, and then the British more or less just threw them under the bus in the peace settlement.

Nine of Eight
Apr 28, 2011


Dinosaur Gum

PittTheElder posted:

This is extremely true. Oddly enough I don't get the sense that it's all that big a deal in Quebec, despite the French militia probably being the best performing Canadian units.

Most French Canadians would rather die than take pride in anything remotely involving the English crown.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

It would be a sad error in judgement to mistake me for a corpse.


Clapping Larry

*spits on the ground*

Schadenboner
Aug 15, 2011

I MEAN, TURN OFF YOURE MONITOR, MIGTH EXPLAIN YOUR BAD POSTS, HOPE THIS HELPS?!

Jobbo_Fett posted:

*spits on the ground*

Legit unsure if I'm in the Dune thread or the MilHist?

zoux
Apr 28, 2006



https://twitter.com/HillelNeuer/sta...530897162592257

Were the international Jewish community hoping that Stalin would save them from Hitler, or was it more of a, oh no the two most Jew-hating people in the world have joined forces deal

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Stalin didn't go nuts about Jews (in particular) until after the war. Jews were protected by the Soviet state from things like antisemitism and were well represented in bureaucracy, academia, the Army, etc - provided they were secularized. Jews were killed in the purges but not at higher rates.

In 1939 it was very clear that Nazi Germany was a massive threat to Jews in particular in a way that the Soviet Union was not.

Mr Enderby
Mar 28, 2015



HEY GUNS posted:

don't get them drunk! mr enderby says this kills them

On the offchance anyone cares, here is what I posted in the religion thread.

Mr Enderby posted:

Elephants in Europe tended not to last long during any time between the early middle ages and the 18th century, because Europeans absolutely would not be disabused of the notion that they needed to drink gallons of wine a day to survive. This happened at the Tower of London on a fairly regular basis. They'd get an elephant. They'd give it wine. It would die. They would make a note for future reference "Elephant died, in spite of wine".

On a slightly related note, here's a story about the time the notoriously uptight Lord Keeper of the Great Seal Francis North was humiliated by a malicious rumour that he had been seen riding a rhinoceros.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...epage&q&f=false

For more information about how elephants don't like (too much) wine, refer to this authoritative source.

https://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2...hants-part-two/

Cythereal posted:

Y'all were good at naming warships, at least. Yes, I'm including the Flower class and the HMS Gay Viking.

All ships deserve elegant names.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



can i ask why Euros were so insistent that Elephants required wine to live?

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012



KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

can i ask why Euros were so insistent that Elephants required wine to live?

Because they are intelligent creatures, OP.

zoux
Apr 28, 2006



KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

Stalin didn't go nuts about Jews (in particular) until after the war. Jews were protected by the Soviet state from things like antisemitism and were well represented in bureaucracy, academia, the Army, etc - provided they were secularized. Jews were killed in the purges but not at higher rates.

In 1939 it was very clear that Nazi Germany was a massive threat to Jews in particular in a way that the Soviet Union was not.

Poking around on wikipedia:

quote:

During his meeting with Nazi Germany's foreign minister Joachim von Ribbentrop, Stalin promised him to get rid of the "Jewish domination", especially among the intelligentsia.[16] After dismissing Maxim Litvinov as Foreign Minister in 1939,Stalin immediately directed incoming Foreign Minister Vyacheslav Molotov to "purge the ministry of Jews", to appease Hitler and to signal Nazi Germany that the USSR was ready for non-aggression talks.

According to some historians, antisemitic trends in the Kremlin's policies were fueled by the struggle against Leon Trotsky.

In the late 1930s, 1940s, and 1950s far fewer Jews were appointed to positions of power in the state apparatus than previously, with a sharp drop in Jewish representation in senior positions evident from around the time of the beginning of the late 1930s rapprochement with Nazi Germany. The percentage of Jews in positions of power dropped to 6% in 1938, and to 5% in 1940.

Following the Soviet invasion of Poland, Stalin began a policy of relocating Jews to the Jewish Autonomous Oblast and other parts of Siberia. Throughout the war, similar movements were executed in regions considered vulnerable to Nazi invasion with the various target ethnic groups of the Nazi genocide. When these populations reached their destinations, work was oftentimes arduous and they were subjected to poor conditions due to lack of resources caused by the war effort.

Did Nazi Germany stoke anti-semitism in Stalin or was it just the natural progression of a paranoid dictator?

TK-42-1
Oct 30, 2013

looks like we have a bad transmitter



Pillbug

Platystemon posted:

Because they are intelligent creatures, OP.

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008




zoux posted:

Poking around on wikipedia:


Did Nazi Germany stoke anti-semitism in Stalin or was it just the natural progression of a paranoid dictator?

Note that Stalin promising Ribbentrop of all people that he would 'get rid of Jewish domination' doesn't mean he thought there was any. That's just good diplomacy to say when you're allIied with the Nazis. What percentage of the Soviet population were Jews at the time anyway?

HEY GUNS
Oct 11, 2012

In the 17th century, the Holy Roman Empire was ravaged by the Thirty Years' War. In the middle of this chaos appeared a Japanese mercenary named Isaak. His fierce battle begins!


Arquinsiel posted:

Went back to college, got a degree, got a job, did some certs, got married. You know, the usual really.
Fair enough. I'm engaged, my postdoc begins in October, and i'm legally a guy now. The usual

zoux
Apr 28, 2006



feedmegin posted:

Note that Stalin promising Ribbentrop of all people that he would 'get rid of Jewish domination' doesn't mean he thought there was any. That's just good diplomacy to say when you're allIied with the Nazis. What percentage of the Soviet population were Jews at the time anyway?

2.6 m in 1926, 4.8 m (est) in '41

HEY GUNS
Oct 11, 2012

In the 17th century, the Holy Roman Empire was ravaged by the Thirty Years' War. In the middle of this chaos appeared a Japanese mercenary named Isaak. His fierce battle begins!


zoux posted:

Did Nazi Germany stoke anti-semitism in Stalin or was it just the natural progression of a paranoid dictator?
Probably the second, he flipped his poo poo when some Israeli figures came to the USSR and the wife of a member of his government used the only Yiddish she knew to clumsily tell one of them "Ich bin yiddische Tochter"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctors%27_plot
the case of the Jewish Anti Fascist Committee is especially tragic, they spent the war working hard to influence public opinion around the world for the Soviets against the Nazis. They were tortured and killed in 51 and 52.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewis...scist_Committee

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008




zoux posted:

2.6 m in 1926, 4.8 m (est) in '41

Close to double the population in 15 years?! That, um, seems fishy tbh

Kangxi
Nov 12, 2016

The hat is mandatory.


feedmegin posted:

Close to double the population in 15 years?! That, um, seems fishy tbh

I'm guessing a lot of those were from places Stalin invaded

Schadenboner
Aug 15, 2011

I MEAN, TURN OFF YOURE MONITOR, MIGTH EXPLAIN YOUR BAD POSTS, HOPE THIS HELPS?!

feedmegin posted:

Close to double the population in 15 years?! That, um, seems fishy tbh

"You forgot Poland" (as the kids say these days).

Acebuckeye13
Nov 2, 2010

There's only one prescription for Nazism and it's 76mm HVAP


Ultra Carp

Schadenboner posted:

"You forgot Poland" (as the kids say these days).

Say what you will, but you can never say Stalin didn't invest in Eastern Poland.

Schadenboner
Aug 15, 2011

I MEAN, TURN OFF YOURE MONITOR, MIGTH EXPLAIN YOUR BAD POSTS, HOPE THIS HELPS?!

Does anyone know of any good resources on far right (in particular anti-Semitic) movements in interwar central/eastern/southern Europe (other than )?

I may have asked this in previous threads but I can't recall?

FrangibleCover
Jan 23, 2018

Nothing going on in my quiet corner of the Pacific.

This is the life. I'm just lying here in my hammock in Townsville, sipping a G&T.

BalloonFish posted:

Land-based bombers were named after British towns (Lancaster, Stirling, Halifax) and it was decided to name American types after similarly mid-tier US cities (Boston, Baltimore, Chesapeake (?)).
Thinking of renamed bombers, I think they did something even cleverer in some cases: Naming bombers after British towns such as Boston or Washington that happen to have slightly more famous counterparts in the US.

Kangxi
Nov 12, 2016

The hat is mandatory.


Schadenboner posted:

Does anyone know of any good resources on far right (in particular anti-Semitic) movements in interwar central/eastern/southern Europe (other than )?

I may have asked this in previous threads but I can't recall?

Stanley Payne's A History of Fascism has some chapters on variants and 'minor movements' of fascism in the region, that might be a good introduction.

Schadenboner
Aug 15, 2011

I MEAN, TURN OFF YOURE MONITOR, MIGTH EXPLAIN YOUR BAD POSTS, HOPE THIS HELPS?!

I feel like a lot of treatments of interwar rightist movements are teleological (not sure if that's the right word: they're seen as only existing like backwards from the time they became collaborationists rather than having existed forwards from the time they were founded? Like, they're written with Nazi invasion as a forgone conclusion but when the movements were founded in 1925 or whatever this makes little sense?)



I also feel like a lot of central/southern European states use "We were invaded!" as a way of absolving themselves and their peoples from complicity in the Nazi genocides when there were already pre-existing native movements more than eager to help, for both venal and ideological reasons. Although I wouldn't suggest suggesting this in, for example, ?

Anyways, I'll give that a look. Thanks!

E: Starting "The Russian Fascists: Tragedy and Farce in Exile 1925-1945".

Schadenboner fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Aug 22, 2019

Edgar Allen Ho
Apr 3, 2017



Austria: First Victims of Hitler

Mr Enderby
Mar 28, 2015



KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

can i ask why Euros were so insistent that Elephants required wine to live?

Everyone in the early modern period is simultaneously cleverer and stupider than anyone you have ever met.

Arquinsiel
Jun 1, 2006

"There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady


HEY GUNS posted:

Fair enough. I'm engaged, my postdoc begins in October, and i'm legally a guy now. The usual
Solid adulting all round

Milo and POTUS
Sep 3, 2017

I will not shut up about the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. I talk about them all the time and work them into every conversation I have. I built a shrine in my room for the yellow one who died because sadly no one noticed because she died around 9/11. Wanna see it?


Randomcheese3 posted:

A lot of the sailors aboard the Flowers viewed the naming of the class as a cunning psychological warfare tool against German U-boat crews; while dying for the Fuhrer might be glorious, being killed by a ship named for a flower like Hyacinth, Periwinkle or Cowslip was faintly comical.

Don't for a second think I wouldn't be afraid of a dandy lion

FuturePastNow posted:

and the HMS Angry Scotsman

Isn't angry scotsman redundant

Schadenboner posted:

Legit unsure if I'm in the Dune thread or the MilHist?



Or the Cormac McCarthy megathread

Milo and POTUS fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Aug 22, 2019

TK-42-1
Oct 30, 2013

looks like we have a bad transmitter



Pillbug

itís double plus angry

RocknRollaAyatollah
Nov 26, 2008



Lipstick Apathy

aphid_licker posted:

Man I didn't realize that GŲring went to Africa

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinr...nst_G%C3%B6ring

I forgot about this until I played Kaiserreich and wondered why Goring was the head of German Africa.

LingcodKilla
Dec 28, 2002

I ate too much crab and transformed into this.


HEY GUNS posted:

Fair enough. I'm engaged, my postdoc begins in October, and i'm legally a guy now. The usual

Was wondering about the name change. Well welcome to the guy club.

Spacewolf
May 19, 2014


KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

Do you mean name tapes like "John Q. Dickface" on modern uniforms or do you mean like other forms of unit identification?

the former

HEY GUNS
Oct 11, 2012

In the 17th century, the Holy Roman Empire was ravaged by the Thirty Years' War. In the middle of this chaos appeared a Japanese mercenary named Isaak. His fierce battle begins!


LingcodKilla posted:

Was wondering about the name change. Well welcome to the guy club.

[long, italian, catholic, impossible to spell, bullshit][a] -----> [long, italian, catholic, impossible to spell, bullshit][o]

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Spacewolf posted:

the former

For the US Army, name tapes were introduced on the Class A dress uniform in 1954

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

ASK ME ABOUT MY LOVE OF EUGENICS AND MARIO 3


College Slice

That was Molotov whose wife was Jewish.

Molotov I always found kinda interesting since he was a viewpoint character in Worldwar; Turtledove wrote him to be the only sane man/straight man and he ended up in charge of the Soviet's atomic bomb project instead of Beria.

He got a raw deal after the war, though probably better then if Stalin had lived a little longer.

Koramei
Nov 11, 2011

I just pretend to be nice.


Lipstick Apathy

LLSix posted:

What were Qin era armies like? I am familiar with Greek phalanxes and several Roman legion evolutions but I know nothing about early Chinese armies.

Qin was the culmination of a shift from small armies of chariot-borne nobles to absolutely gargantuan infantry-based armies of conscripted peasants that happened over the course of something like 500 years. Their scale, and their leaders figuring out how to manage that many people at once, were really their defining characteristic; for the most part the individual soldiers werenít at all well equipped or trained, but the states (there were 7 of them, Qin and Chu the strongest)óand Qin most of allógot incredibly effective at census taking and conscription, and to an extent organized their states expressly to that end (Qin redistributed all its land into equal plots and penalized households with more than 1 adult man to maximize the number of possible conscripts for instance). In the end with Qin you end up with armies larger than in basically any period of history until Napoleon, including later China (universal conscription was abolished at the end of Western Han at about the time of Christ and wouldnít come back in premodern China).

In terms of tactics and stuff, it varied between the states a bit but the Qin soldiers worked in small squad-sized units thatíd be responsible for keeping account of each other and thatíd be rewarded if they performed well, but penalized if they didnít return with enough proof of killed enemies (I never could find out how this actually worked, but Qinís draconian punishments backfiring would play a significant part in bringing down the dynasty, so maybe the reality is it didnít); Qin society in general was strictly based on reward, punishment and discipline, so even though they were conscripted peasants they probably werenít an incoherent rabble, although fighting was often based around fortifications and thereís loads of treatises of generals figuring out how to trick their men into actually doing things so they werenít exactly expected to shine.

There were two main exceptions to the peasants though; first, while chariots had mostly fallen by the wayside and cavalry wouldnít yet become lethal enough to be a major thing, light cavalry inspired by the steppe nomads became important for raiding/harassing etc later on. Second, each of the states would make regiments of elite infantry; think the terra-cotta army for an example, which are definitely not what average Qin soldiers looked like in spite of them being our main image of one. They were much better equipped, and had heavy armor, and were expected to be fit sorta like legionaries; able to march 30 miles a day and carry 3 daysí provisions on their backs, that sort of thing.

As for weapons, crossbows and the distinctly Chinese ge halberd were the mainstay.
Ironworking was developed over this period, and the states would all have major workshops to mass produce the weapons.

Bulgaroctonus
Dec 31, 2008


Are people allowed to smoke on U.S. naval vessels? Wondering about subs especially.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012



Bulgaroctonus posted:

Are people allowed to smoke on U.S. naval vessels? Wondering about subs especially.

Itís banned on subs but only since 2011.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012



Every shipís commissary was required by law to sell tobacco products till 2011.

In 2014 the navy designated an e‐cig only space on the George Washington but then in 2017 they banned e‐cigs from all ships because of li‐ion fires.

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HEY GUNS
Oct 11, 2012

In the 17th century, the Holy Roman Empire was ravaged by the Thirty Years' War. In the middle of this chaos appeared a Japanese mercenary named Isaak. His fierce battle begins!


Platystemon posted:

Itís banned on subs but only since 2011.
are any forms of smokeless tobacco allowed on subs

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