Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
  • Post
  • Reply
Sample_text
Apr 28, 2018


Bootcha posted:

Started pre-production and some production, however due to WC4's poor sales, and the bigger reason of CR's contract due to be renewed in the middle of (what turned into) WC:P's development, EA and CR had a little bit of a row over expectations, and budget. Suffice to say, CR didn't like the new impositions being made and left. EA took a gamble that the WC/FMV franchise still had some legs, and continued production and release of WC:P. Turns out, the writing was on the wall, and again it's hard to make a profit on a space sim that costs more than 6 million dollars to make.

WC didn't die because CR left and/or EA "killed" it, WC died because it was evolving on a path in the industry that was rapidly becoming extinct: A complex high-skill-and-hardware-required niche game whose high costs weren't related to making any part of the "game" evolve, in a growing market of first time gamers who could only internalize so much minutia.

Chapter 8 of SCG wen?

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Colostomy Bag
Jan 11, 2016

C-Bangin' it



Beexoffel posted:

content gets everyone
see gameplay
working things
management sucks

Derek Smart was Right

Gort
Aug 18, 2003


Man, if only they could hire a second employee so they could bug fix and make new content at the same time

kilus aof
Mar 24, 2001


Bootcha posted:

WC didn't die because CR left and/or EA "killed" it, WC died because it was evolving on a path in the industry that was rapidly becoming extinct: A complex high-skill-and-hardware-required niche game whose high costs weren't related to making any part of the "game" evolve, in a growing market of first time gamers who could only internalize so much minutia.

Also as the 90s went on stores either stopped selling joysticks or only stocked expensive ones. With the removal of cheap entry level joysticks a niche product became more niche.

Hav
Dec 11, 2009



Fun Shoe

kilus aof posted:

Also as the 90s went on stores either stopped selling joysticks or only stocked expensive ones. With the removal of cheap entry level joysticks a niche product became more niche.

Joysticks went from analogue to digital around the same time, which created the price bump. First sidewinders were two axis, three buttons and needed a gameport; usually on the sound card. There were a limited number of games that used them as well. Weirdly it was more a glut of sim games and the rise of the FPS, bearing in mind the size of the games market at the time.

Was not a fan of FPSí.

The USB joysticks gave you a lot more input options, but hit $40 from $15 pretty quick. Otoh, I just paid $250 for my third HOTAS.

colonelwest
Jun 30, 2018

Goon Top-Secret Deep State False Flag Operations Commander



Sample_text posted:

Chapter 8 of SCG wen?

Bootcha is going to release the SCG roadmap to the roadmap any day now.

Fidelitious
Apr 17, 2018

MY BIRTH CRY WILL BE THE SOUND OF EVERY WALLET ON THIS PLANET OPENING IN UNISON.


monkeytek posted:

Whole lot of "heal the wound" "pull the knife out of the wound" talk going on here.

Anyone else getting a really creepy vibe?

I wanted to roll back to this because that became a really disturbing read the further I got through it.
The vibe of that posting was very reminiscent of calling out systemic oppression of minorities which is honestly disgusting when we're talking about a video game that some people think is bad, not black people being murdered by police.

Then we get to the part about how discourse can only happen when everyone MUST start from the position that Star Citizen is successful and awesome and there are a lot of exciting updates coming. Really now.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

It would be a sad error in judgement to mistake me for a corpse.


Clapping Larry

Sup?

Mailer
Nov 4, 2009

Have you accepted The Void as your lord and savior?


Bootcha posted:

WC didn't die because CR left and/or EA "killed" it, WC died because it was evolving on a path in the industry that was rapidly becoming extinct: A complex high-skill-and-hardware-required niche game whose high costs weren't related to making any part of the "game" evolve, in a growing market of first time gamers who could only internalize so much minutia.

I mean the genre pretty much died in the mainstream, but I'd owe a lot of that to it being a PC-centric game in an increasingly console-focused world. The PC had shifted and everyone wanted a piece of the new pie. Before WC3 made it out the door the world had met Doom. The same year WC4 released the newly-created fps market had Quake. Our homes had polygon-pushing consoles and the crobbler was still trying to sell FMV that he hoped would vault him to hollywood.

Everything is cyclical these days and the last 15 years or so have been weird. FS2020 is such a hit it has caused a global hardware shortage and the xbox version isn't even out. PCs started getting quality ports, kickstarter tapped into the 30-somethings who wanted a modernized version of the thing they liked. Names from 80s/90s computer magazines I thought I'd never see again are getting greenlit. It's really hard to say if the WC brand, given to a competent designer, could have gone through this cycle and we'd have EA taking a shot on WC5. Instead, well...

https://i.imgur.com/ZdMLfBL.gifv

Golli
Jan 5, 2013



Clapping Larry

Hav posted:

Itís even better when you realise that Jurgen Prochnow worked on Das Boot and the Wing Commander movie.

Don't forget THAT Ortwin Freyermuth was the producer for the director's cut of Das Boot.

The Chad Jihad
Feb 24, 2007



So this was awhile back, but as a quick addition: while mechanically X-wing, Tie Fighter and others had largely surpassed wing commander, there wasn't really any other space sim that included the post/pre mission stuff and the static wingmen. The sense of being a pilot on your carrier with your comrades. That's the main reason I was looking forward to SQ42, before reality set in

The Titanic
Sep 15, 2016

Unsinkable


Wintermutant posted:

I know y'all don't know me because I mostly lurk, but I just wanted to apologize for doubting any of you. It's not that I expected Star Citizen to be good but I thought there surely had to be some comedic hyperbole going on. There was not, and if anything y'all are underselling what a pile of poo poo it is. It occurred to me while manually uninstalling (since they can't even get that right after 7+ years) that a game hasn't made me this angry since I was a controller-throwing child.

Welcome to the thread, friend.

A good, old saying that we have is "there's always more, and it's always worse."

The funny part off being an outsider looking in is that stunning realization that we're not actually making up all these seemingly crazy things, and they really are happening and it is usually worse than anybody can make it.

The artwork is leagues better than the programming team, and people rapping their mind around "how can this look so good, but not work at all" doesn't make sense because in modern gaming people are used to, people usually see good graphics with a generally good game. Doesn't necessarily need to be fun, but it's usually at least competently programmed and you don't see hideous bugs that you don't even comprehend how it exists and how it can be fixed.

CIG graphics = Pretty professional, albeit bland

CIG programming = Literally amateur hour with no hope of recovery, so keep popping in stuff from random CryEngine tutorials

Thom12255
Feb 23, 2013




The Chad Jihad posted:

So this was awhile back, but as a quick addition: while mechanically X-wing, Tie Fighter and others had largely surpassed wing commander, there wasn't really any other space sim that included the post/pre mission stuff and the static wingmen. The sense of being a pilot on your carrier with your comrades. That's the main reason I was looking forward to SQ42, before reality set in

I hope the Star Wars Squadrons campaign scratches this itch, and I hope that game is just a trial run for a new IP.

The Titanic
Sep 15, 2016

Unsinkable


DigitalPenny posted:

How dose this fit in with single seat fighters that have none of this ?

Without a design document to explain how this is all supposed to cohesively exist outside of fever dreams, my guess would be that the component fails and is unrepairable by you unless you EVA maybe. And you either slowly die of starvation/thirst because those are a thing or you die from argon leaving/entering your cockpit room.

The Titanic
Sep 15, 2016

Unsinkable


Scruffpuff posted:

Years of failure, a near perfect echo of all his previous failures except multiplied like 1000, hasn't humbled this fucker one bit. It's amazing - incredible, really - it's like by loving up royally he's getting more arrogant instead of less.

What is there to be arrogant about? He has nothing to point to that isn't a stomach-cramp inducing piece of epic shame, the kind of shame that would send a normal person into therapy, and this guy is loving energized by it.

He's made an incredibly successful marketing system that has made him and his friends and family incredibly rich. They have managed to find success far beyond anything that would normally see.

The more people who want your service, the less you appreciate them in an interesting twist of social engineering. I've seen this phenomenon many times in companies and individuals, where even contempt tends to form for people who want their service, simply for reasons their service has become popular to a lot of people.

The Titanic
Sep 15, 2016

Unsinkable


Thoatse posted:

...in other failed Kickstarter news, an update on Descent



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kAV_hmVpiU




Back in the day when I really did play lots of Doom and work on Doom mods, Descent was one of those games that seemed more interesting than it was because of how complex it was on a map level. I played it with a friend and we often found ourselves flying helplessly around a map due to how convoluted it all was. I don't think we beat it because we ended up fighting against a nearly impossible to read map after the fun of killing all the stuff was to find that one door or corridor we're missed somewhere.

I'd say Descent was a fun experience but not something I'd ever want to see another version of. But kids these days can hopefully enjoy that continued frustration.

The Titanic
Sep 15, 2016

Unsinkable


Scruffpuff posted:

It's incredible how many of these backers think these games are additive - like you can just keep adding and adding more and more assets and code and it all just means a bigger and better game in the end. For these people, if they already don't realize what's wrong with that line of thinking, you can't educate them. This project is now capitalistic Darwinism.

CR himself believes this. You just keep layering code on top of all these ideas. And in his mind, any idiot can do that.

That's probably why we see this huge dissipate between art (knows he needs great artists and they are super important), and programming (he feels like the hard part is his piece with ideas, and the programmers just fill in the code/blanks which is super simple since he did the hard part).

Dwesa
Jul 19, 2016

Might die, but eh.


The Titanic posted:

He's made an incredibly successful marketing system that has made him and his friends and family incredibly rich. They have managed to find success far beyond anything that would normally see.
I don't think he can be credited with making a successful marketing system for SC, wasn't it Lesnick that invented spaceship pledges? Even when only crowdfunding side of SC is considered, he basically just stumbled into wallets of a small group of frustrated gullibles that were always prone to cultish behavior. There are many other failed projects like SC and there are always the same people funding them, I guess Lethality can be considered archetype of them and I don't really see how is SC that different from other kickstarter MMOs or why're SC backers more stubborn than e.g. backers of Shroud of Avatar, Ashes of Creation, Chronicles of Elyria etc. SC is outlier in its perseverance only due to some freakish accident, it seems to be doing something better than others only because of survivor bias.

Dwesa fucked around with this message at 14:56 on Sep 16, 2020

The Chad Jihad
Feb 24, 2007



Thom12255 posted:

I hope the Star Wars Squadrons campaign scratches this itch, and I hope that game is just a trial run for a new IP.

I hope so too, though I think they've said it's primarily a multiplayer game so it'll probably be more a 10-15 hour tutorial sort of thing with pre-mission chatter and a couple cut-scenes

The Titanic
Sep 15, 2016

Unsinkable


Dwesa posted:

I don't think he can be credited with making a successful marketing system for SC. Even when only crowdfunding side of SC is considered, he basically just stumbled into wallets of a small group of frustrated gullibles that were always prone to cultish behavior. There are many other failed projects like SC and there are always the same people funding them, I guess Lethality can be considered archetype of them and I don't really see how is SC that different from other kickstarter MMOs or why're SC backers more stubborn than e.g. backers of Shroud of Avatar, Ashes of Creation, Chronicles of Elyria etc. SC is outlier in its perseverance only due to some freakish accident, it seems to be doing something better than others only because of survivor bias.

He found a well nobody else found yet, and is still pumping tons from it.

Credit or not, he's pretty high on the list and has definitely benefited from it well beyond anything he would normally ever see in his lifetime. It's basically a "fund my life" project and he's successful at it.

The Titanic fucked around with this message at 15:06 on Sep 16, 2020

peter gabriel
Nov 8, 2011

Hello Commandos


Anything chris has done to any degree of success has either been entirely accidentally or because he ripped someone's ideas off

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

"I find my life is a lot easier the lower I keep my expectations."
-Bill Watterson


The Titanic posted:

The artwork is leagues better than the programming team, and people rapping their mind around "how can this look so good, but not work at all" doesn't make sense because in modern gaming people are used to, people usually see good graphics with a generally good game. Doesn't necessarily need to be fun, but it's usually at least competently programmed and you don't see hideous bugs that you don't even comprehend how it exists and how it can be fixed.

CIG graphics = Pretty professional, albeit bland

CIG programming = Literally amateur hour with no hope of recovery, so keep popping in stuff from random CryEngine tutorials

Yep, this is the con that is SC. Its similar to back in the olden days when you'd see a game with really sick box art, and you'd get home and start playing, and it would look like complete rear end and play like rear end and be nothing like the box art. That company knew they were lying and paid a good artist to hype up the game way past what it actually is.

SC is that but every day for years.

Exactly like you said, people just don't consider that a game could look good while being totally poo poo. They see poo poo games that look poo poo and good games that look good, and maybe good games that aren't their thing or are less fun, but you don't see a game on like PS4 or Xbox that just flat crashes every other minute and doesn't let you actually get past the first "mission".

Thoatse
Feb 29, 2016

It's just a pledge bro!


https://i.imgur.com/95hiaPZ.gifv

Mirificus
Oct 29, 2004

Kings need not raise their voices to be heard


Saw this in 6yr old Linus vid posted:

quote:

So the entire purpose of this thread is to drum up negativity.

That is ill intention is it not?

Please, explain the POSITIVE and CONSTRUCTIVE use this thread serves? Please explain how discussion on this is intended to be in any way beneficial to this community or the game or the developers?

This thread and others like it need to be removed.

quote:

No seriously. What purpose does it serve?

If you hate the game this serves a purpose. It provides a place for people to bitch and for you (the hater) to drum up more negativity and to say what you want to say in a "safe place" where the mods won't hammer you (as if the whole subreddit isn't already safe). It is one more thread that is making more people feel negative poo poo in the community. Its a place where misinformation can spread and lies can be told about what Star Citizen is and isn't, and what the developers are and aren't doing. It isn't contributing anything, it serves the purpose of tearing the subreddit down, running it through the mud.

If you like the game but are critical of it, it does nothing to serve the game. It doesn't help them be better at developing the game. It doesn't help the game itself to be better. It doesn't help the community that supports the game (directly and in discussion).

What purpose does this serve that the subreddit is ok with? A place to vent for people who feel disillusioned?

ronmcd
Aug 27, 2017


The Yamiks is playing Star Citizen at the moment.

Well, I say playing, he's swearing profusely and looking at black screens and error messages.

https://twitch.tv/yamiks

Sanya Juutilainen
Jun 19, 2019

Every slur offends someone and people will just rebrand other words to slurs / potentially offensive meanings (see also: gay, trap) which will then get banned, eventually at some point the language will run out of words.


at some point the language will run out of words.

Zaphod42 posted:

Yep, this is the con that is SC. Its similar to back in the olden days when you'd see a game with really sick box art, and you'd get home and start playing, and it would look like complete rear end and play like rear end and be nothing like the box art. That company knew they were lying and paid a good artist to hype up the game way past what it actually is.

SC is that but every day for years.

Exactly like you said, people just don't consider that a game could look good while being totally poo poo. They see poo poo games that look poo poo and good games that look good, and maybe good games that aren't their thing or are less fun, but you don't see a game on like PS4 or Xbox that just flat crashes every other minute and doesn't let you actually get past the first "mission".

trucutru
Jul 9, 2003

Invoking fairy dust is not a crime.


A Mark posted:

I would even go further than you do : SQ42 has already taken so many ressources away from the PU development that it has to repay for them somehow. So IMO after the first episode release the SQ42 trilogy shouldn't only stop vampirising the PU funding but its sales should also participate in sustaining its development (both before and after its MVP release) so that it doesn't have to rely so much on the ship ones anymore. Because at some point CIG will have to drastically reduce their new ships release rate to actually be able to finish and balance the numerous ones they have already sold and the sooner the better to me.


Lol, some people are planning to continue to crowdfund the game *after* SQ42 launches (any time now)

Sanya Juutilainen
Jun 19, 2019

Every slur offends someone and people will just rebrand other words to slurs / potentially offensive meanings (see also: gay, trap) which will then get banned, eventually at some point the language will run out of words.


at some point the language will run out of words.

ronmcd posted:

The Yamiks is playing Star Citizen at the moment.

Well, I say playing, he's swearing profusely and looking at black screens and error messages.

https://twitch.tv/yamiks

Opened it, he was in jail for two hours, died while mining because no medpen (game bug), said he won't do this on stream and ended it.

13/10 gameplay, would enjoy any day.

Fargin Icehole
Feb 18, 2011

Pet me.


The Titanic posted:

Back in the day when I really did play lots of Doom and work on Doom mods, Descent was one of those games that seemed more interesting than it was because of how complex it was on a map level. I played it with a friend and we often found ourselves flying helplessly around a map due to how convoluted it all was. I don't think we beat it because we ended up fighting against a nearly impossible to read map after the fun of killing all the stuff was to find that one door or corridor we're missed somewhere.

I'd say Descent was a fun experience but not something I'd ever want to see another version of. But kids these days can hopefully enjoy that continued frustration.

The funny part is, there is a competitor that already released their product, called Overload. That one was made by several people who were a part of the original Descent, and the writer was responsible for Freespace's story.

I played it and it is Descent in every way except by name. It's like Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night being the answer to Castlevania.

The Titanic
Sep 15, 2016

Unsinkable


Fargin Icehole posted:

The funny part is, there is a competitor that already released their product, called Overload. That one was made by several people who were a part of the original Descent, and the writer was responsible for Freespace's story.

I played it and it is Descent in every way except by name. It's like Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night being the answer to Castlevania.

Never heard of it, but then I am not at all interested in a remake or new version of a game that I did not originally enjoy at all. Being a turret in a mine shaft was not super fun, especially when the mines were sprawling contraptions full of hard to spot doors and what not.

Bumble He
Jul 1, 2018




let's rub!

Kosumo
Apr 9, 2016


Bumble He posted:

let's rub!

I'll see your rub and raise you a tane.

Foo Diddley
Oct 29, 2011

Do you party?


Zaphod42 posted:

Yep, this is the con that is SC. Its similar to back in the olden days when you'd see a game with really sick box art, and you'd get home and start playing, and it would look like complete rear end and play like rear end and be nothing like the box art. That company knew they were lying and paid a good artist to hype up the game way past what it actually is.

SC is that but every day for years.

Exactly like you said, people just don't consider that a game could look good while being totally poo poo. They see poo poo games that look poo poo and good games that look good, and maybe good games that aren't their thing or are less fun, but you don't see a game on like PS4 or Xbox that just flat crashes every other minute and doesn't let you actually get past the first "mission".

The game that taught me not to buy poo poo based on the box art was actually Wing Commander

ronmcd
Aug 27, 2017


Sanya Juutilainen posted:

Opened it, he was in jail for two hours, died while mining because no medpen (game bug), said he won't do this on stream and ended it.

13/10 gameplay, would enjoy any day.

Ahahahaha

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

It would be a sad error in judgement to mistake me for a corpse.


Clapping Larry

Just want to say I love you all.

Pixelate
Jan 6, 2018

"You win by having fun"


Discussion on this subreddit is becoming more angry as time goes on



quote:

"angry" words are based on the NRC sentiment lexicon

quote:

Most of the anger is towards know-it-all arm chair devs not towards SC imo.

Pixelate
Jan 6, 2018

"You win by having fun"


Jobbo_Fett posted:

Just want to say I love you all.

Love index increasing!

colonelwest
Jun 30, 2018

Goon Top-Secret Deep State False Flag Operations Commander



Pixelate posted:

Discussion on this subreddit is becoming more angry as time goes on



Good job guys spreading FUD and brigading the SC sub. But itís not time to become complacent. If Citizens ever manage to drive us all off Reddit, Star Citizen will release and be good.

Gothsheep
Apr 22, 2010


Sanya Juutilainen posted:

Opened it, he was in jail for two hours, died while mining because no medpen (game bug), said he won't do this on stream and ended it.

13/10 gameplay, would enjoy any day.

I opened the stream to a random part. He was stuck in a train that kept going in an endless cycle of stops to unrendered places. Eventually the door opened, and he jumped out into the unrendered void and died. He was so happy to finally be off that train he literally didn't care that it took him to hell.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Lammasu
May 8, 2019

lawful Good Monster


Thoatse posted:

...in other failed Kickstarter news, an update on Descent



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kAV_hmVpiU




Sometimes I feel like getting a successful Kickstarter is like becoming a Dark Lord of Ravenloft.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply