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Gervasius
Nov 2, 2010




Grimey Drawer

Discussion Quorum posted:

Random trivia question that just bubbled into my brain: has the US ever shot down a hostile warplane with a SAM? Have ground/sea-based US anti-air defenses engaged or poo poo down any manned hostile aircraft since Korea?

Unconfirmed, but US navy claims it shot down a MiG-17 with a Terrier in Vietnam.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_%C4%90%E1%BB%93ng_H%E1%BB%9Bi

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hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008



Discussion Quorum posted:

Random trivia question that just bubbled into my brain: has the US ever shot down a hostile warplane with a SAM? Have ground/sea-based US anti-air defenses engaged or poo poo down any manned hostile aircraft since Korea?

I know Stingers, Hawks, and Patriots have all scored kills in foreign service. Also that US Patriot batteries have shot down a Hornet and a Tornado, and there was the Iranian Airbus (Sea Sparrow or SM-2 I guess) which is why I qualified that as hostile aircraft

Just poking around Wikipedia sources and found a USN cruiser shot down a North Vietnamese mig 17 with a terrier in 1972
https://www.eaglespeak.us/2005/03/us-navy-vs-cruise-missiles-battle-off.html?m=1

edit: the navy claimed 2 mig 17s and a cruise missile were downed. Here’s an extremely detailed breakdown of the cruise missile claim which probably was not actually a cruise missile but they certainly fired at some sort of Soviet radar, probably on a missile boat. http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-025.php

hobbesmaster fucked around with this message at 02:55 on May 1, 2021

Dead Reckoning
Sep 13, 2011


As far as I know, the Army's Air Defense Artillery branch has never shot down a hostile, air breathing, manned threat since becoming a separate branch in 1968.

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004


Nap Ghost

Yeah. USAF got its last hostile manned aircraft kill 22 years ago, IIRC.

US ADA as a separate branch has zero manned hostile kills. Air defense has most of its kills in the sense of firing MGs and cannons at ground targets.

USN got that one Fitter a few years ago when it flew too close to US ground forces.

The other recent US kills have been unmanned aircraft and missiles. And sometimes achieved electronically vs with missiles etc.

Crab Dad
Dec 28, 2002

I ate too much crab and transformed into this.



Not a whole lot going on in Air Defense it seems.

Xakura
Jan 10, 2019




Crab Dad posted:

Not a whole lot going on in Air Defense it seems.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012



Still slaps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85MDZfZr1ag

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004


Nap Ghost

Crab Dad posted:

Not a whole lot going on in Air Defense it seems.

There is a whole lot, but that whole lot is largely unmanned and a million times more difficult and complicated than shooting down manned jets and helos. It’s a real fucker. Clubbing some sky knight out of the sky circa 1995 was way easier than dealing with loitering munitions and UAS and cruise missiles and such. Hell, for pilots, defensive counter-air CAPs are often counter-UAS or cruise missile defense rather than keeping manned enemies at bay.

Plus, every manned jet out there who thinks they might have to fight air defenses (of the air, land or sea varieties) is learning this neat trick called fire standoff weapons, then run away.

Xakura
Jan 10, 2019




mlmp08 posted:

There is a whole lot, but that whole lot is largely unmanned and a million times more difficult and complicated than shooting down manned jets and helos. It’s a real fucker. Clubbing some sky knight out of the sky circa 1995 was way easier than dealing with loitering munitions and UAS and cruise missiles and such. Hell, for pilots, defensive counter-air CAPs are often counter-UAS or cruise missile defense rather than keeping manned enemies at bay.

Plus, every manned jet out there who thinks they might have to fight air defenses (of the air, land or sea varieties) is learning this neat trick called fire standoff weapons, then run away.

standard.deviant
May 16, 2012

Globally Indigent

mlmp08 posted:

There is a whole lot, but that whole lot is largely unmanned and a million times more difficult and complicated than shooting down manned jets and helos. It’s a real fucker. Clubbing some sky knight out of the sky circa 1995 was way easier than dealing with loitering munitions and UAS and cruise missiles and such. Hell, for pilots, defensive counter-air CAPs are often counter-UAS or cruise missile defense rather than keeping manned enemies at bay.

Plus, every manned jet out there who thinks they might have to fight air defenses (of the air, land or sea varieties) is learning this neat trick called fire standoff weapons, then run away.
It feels like this isn’t a new thing, either. The whole Backfire raid sequence in Red Storm Rising was mostly about interceptors and fleet air defense trying to shoot down inbound cruise missiles.

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your move...'cause mine's gonna be ugly.

standard.deviant posted:

It feels like this isn’t a new thing, either. The whole Backfire raid sequence in Red Storm Rising was mostly about interceptors and fleet air defense trying to shoot down inbound cruise missiles.

In the same book the Soviet field commander asks why their air defense isn't shooting down as many aircraft as they *should* be and gets ed that, if they're *lucky*, Soviet AD personnel gets to live fire practice maybe once or twice a year against drones flying in a straight line at altitude while NATO aircraft "fly between the trees."

Dandywalken
Feb 11, 2014

I will not shut up about the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. I talk about them all the time and work them into every conversation. I actually named my daughter after the Pink ranger and will provide proof if challenged.


Dance of the Vampires was prob the best part of that book imo. poo poo was awesome.

aphid_licker
Jan 7, 2009

eyebrowse


Pillbug

Didn't they also have a scene where B-52s try to drop iron bombs on Rejkyavik? That seemed weird for the mid-80s.

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004


Nap Ghost

The iron bombs? B-52s did hundreds of iron bomb sorties in desert storm.

Mazz
Dec 12, 2012

Orion, this is Sperglord Actual.
Come on home.


They were B-1s and they get jumped by the 29s that are recently sent there IIRC.

Speaking of things going on in Army ADA, they just sent the first Stryker A1 M-SHORADs out to Germany for unit testing.

https://www.army.mil/article/245530/m_shorad_system_bolsters_armys_air_defense_capabilities

Interesting that it's Hellfire-Ls with those little AESAs on board.

Mazz fucked around with this message at 18:59 on May 1, 2021

fartknocker
Oct 28, 2012

Damn it, this always happens. I think I'm gonna score, and then I never score. It's not fair.




Wedge Regret

No, it was a raid by B-52s, as one of the tail gunners fires some shots at a MiG before getting shot down.

Warbadger
Jun 17, 2006


Mazz posted:

They were B-1s and they get jumped by the 29s that are recently sent there IIRC.

Speaking of things going on in Army ADA, they just sent the first Stryker A1 M-SHORADs out to Germany for unit testing.

https://www.army.mil/article/245530/m_shorad_system_bolsters_armys_air_defense_capabilities

Interesting that it's Hellfire-Ls with those little AESAs on board.

Hellfires are a great choice to kill a helicopter or medium sized drone. If they're dual purpose that's also a great tool to turbofuck any tank around, and with a type of guidance nobody really has countermeasures stuck to tanks for. Still gonna need something with longer legs for the larger drones with nice optics/AGMs on them.

Guest2553
Aug 3, 2012


Most of the IADS magic happens as far left as possible. Kinetic vehicles are all well and good but if a cocom is engaging TBMs or whatever over its MOBs the system has already largely failed. 'We bomb them over there so we don't have to bomb them over here' but semi-unironically.

Wingnut Ninja
Jan 11, 2003

Mostly Harmless


Guest2553 posted:

Most of the IADS magic happens as far left as possible. Kinetic vehicles are all well and good but if a cocom is engaging TBMs or whatever over its MOBs the system has already largely failed. 'We bomb them over there so we don't have to bomb them over here' but semi-unironically.

Related, I've always liked the saying "CIWS isn't the last line of defense, it's the first line of damage control".

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye



So I've not been following this, but would you believe the Russian engineered covid vaccine is kinda slapdash and poo poo?

This and other things is making Derek Lowe genuinely angry.

Dandywalken
Feb 11, 2014

I will not shut up about the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. I talk about them all the time and work them into every conversation. I actually named my daughter after the Pink ranger and will provide proof if challenged.


Nyet

priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

Nebakenezzer posted:

So I've not been following this, but would you believe the Russian engineered covid vaccine is kinda slapdash and poo poo?

This and other things is making Derek Lowe genuinely angry.

gently caress yeah that is a hell of a “come at me bro”

aphid_licker
Jan 7, 2009

eyebrowse


Pillbug

That Lowe article doesn't even mention the small problem of their vector virus apparently being replication competent.

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/brazil-health-regulator-anvisas-technical-staff-recommend-against-importing-2021-04-26/

MrYenko
Jun 17, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...


priznat posted:

gently caress yeah that is a hell of a “come at me bro”

“I have a great deal of sympathy for the Russian people, who over the years have managed to make great contributions to humanity while cynically being abused by their leaders, who have too often been a series of despots and thieves.”

It’s a little long for a thread title, but

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014




MrYenko posted:

“I have a great deal of sympathy for the Russian people, who over the years have managed to make great contributions to humanity while cynically being abused by their leaders, who have too often been a series of despots and thieves.”

the Russian people figured out how to deal with that problem once

Phanatic
Mar 13, 2007

Please don't forget that I am an extremely racist idiot who also has terrible opinions about the Culture series.


fartknocker posted:

No, it was a raid by B-52s, as one of the tail gunners fires some shots at a MiG before getting shot down.

They were B-52s but I think you’re thinking of the scene where the F-15s on a ferry flight come across some Bears and shoot them down, one of the Bear tail gunners gets some shots off.

fartknocker
Oct 28, 2012

Damn it, this always happens. I think I'm gonna score, and then I never score. It's not fair.




Wedge Regret

Phanatic posted:

They were B-52s but I think you’re thinking of the scene where the F-15s on a ferry flight come across some Bears and shoot them down, one of the Bear tail gunners gets some shots off.

Nope, it comes up right at the end, after they’ve completed their bombing run and the surviving bombers are trying to get away.

“The Russians now were now out of missiles, and attempting to engage with their cannon. That was dangerous. The B-52s retained their tail guns, and one Fulcrum was damaged by machine-gun fire from his target and had to break off.”

Related in an odd Cold War way, the tanks on the cover of my falling apart paper back copy of the book are Japanese Type 74s, which amuses me.

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

Maybe this post will get me on your ignore list!



Didn’t the cia taliban get a bunch of helicopters with stingers in Afghanistan against Russia.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012



aphid_licker posted:

That Lowe article doesn't even mention the small problem of their vector virus apparently being replication competent.

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/brazil-health-regulator-anvisas-technical-staff-recommend-against-importing-2021-04-26/

He talk about that in the post preceding it.

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2021/04/28/brazil-rejects-the-gamaleya-vaccine

LibCrusher
Jan 6, 2019


Warbadger posted:

Hellfires are a great choice to kill a helicopter or medium sized drone. If they're dual purpose that's also a great tool to turbofuck any tank around, and with a type of guidance nobody really has countermeasures stuck to tanks for. Still gonna need something with longer legs for the larger drones with nice optics/AGMs on them.

I maintain that hellfires are a dogshit choice for air defense. They are too fat, too slow, and can’t maneuver enough. Their WEZ is not appropriate for surface to air. The sooner they replace them with something like a beefed up stinger the better.

bewbies
Sep 23, 2003



Fun Shoe

LibCrusher posted:

I maintain that hellfires are a dogshit choice for air defense. They are too fat, too slow, and can’t maneuver enough. Their WEZ is not appropriate for surface to air. The sooner they replace them with something like a beefed up stinger the better.

it isn't an either or thing, at least for M-SHORAD...it carries both. millimeter wave hellfires are uniquely well suited to tracking slow and small targets, which is why they were included as part of the suite. stinger is a lot better for bigger and faster targets.

in related news, I wrote the conops for M-SHORAD in...2016, I think? that's a remarkably quick turnaround time from some idiot writing a concept paper to an active duty unit receiving an ostensibly functional system. pretty well done by the acquisitions community.

Guest2553
Aug 3, 2012


bewbies posted:

I wrote the conops for M-SHORAD in...2016, I think?

I'd be interested in reading this, if you're comfortable PM'ing me what network I'd need access to.

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your move...'cause mine's gonna be ugly.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/research/amp36279566/army-robots-living-muscle-tissue/

Why do I hear the Terminator instrumental all of a sudden?

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye




Just off of that article I found this: a CIA bug. IE, a dragonfly sized, dragonfly looking bug. Which they made in the 1970s.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/flight/drones/a30795266/cia-robot-dragonfly/

To trigger Phantic: https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/energy/a36065327/nuclear-reactor-makes-fusion-viable-by-2030/

Nebakenezzer fucked around with this message at 13:54 on May 2, 2021

ulmont
Sep 15, 2010

IF I EVER MISS VOTING IN AN ELECTION (EVEN AMERICAN IDOL) ,OR HAVE UNPAID PARKING TICKETS, PLEASE TAKE AWAY MY FRANCHISE



Huh...only 5-10 years out?

Stravag
Jun 7, 2009



It was supposed to be released onto the market by gm in 2020...

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012


"Why does that Subaru break down every time you look at it, Travis", Punchy said. I nearly fell out of the jump seat in my Brat, aghast. "That thing a princess?" I coughed and gulped. "Hahahaha, nice one, Punchy", I said

According to SimCity 2000, we get fusion power in 2050. There's plenty of time.

The real problem is that we were supposed to get satellite microwave power in 2000. Where the hell is it

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004


Nap Ghost

Satellite microwave power abandoned because too many engineers learned it had a 100% accident rate from sim city.

Somebody Awful
Nov 27, 2011

BORN TO DIE
HAIG IS A FUCK
Kill Em All 1917
I am trench man
410,757,864,530 SHELLS FIRED




The man warned you not to cut back on funding. Now you regret this.

I suspect there's some regret going on here too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLhvwpiH0sQ

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hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008



Somebody Awful posted:

The man warned you not to cut back on funding. Now you regret this.

I suspect there's some regret going on here too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLhvwpiH0sQ

How many minutes of training do you think that ANA fighter has with that SAW? 1? 2?

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