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3 posted:EDIT: Also the interceptor pilot is both morally conflicted and a gay icon, he owns: I actually think this is problematic, because the racism/sexism inherent to the Empire was a big part of their evil and now it's being hand waved away. I also dislike the re-writes of "The Empire brought peace and fought corruption blah blah blah" because canonically it did not. It let the Hutts rule hutt-space and crackdown on the other syndicates, it allowed the black sun to operate with impunity, it allowed Corellia's merchant-princes to become robber barons, it re-legalized slavery. The Empire absolutely should not be humanized, it's based on the Nazi's for fucks sake and it always seems slimy. And, to back everyone else up, Tie Fighter was great about that because... everyone was a drat Nazi. Playing Tie Fighter was cartoonishly evil, especially in the expansion under Thrawn. EDIT: And if you want some kind of moral grey area in star wars, it's in the prequels and KOTOR. Turns out the Sith are wholly incontrovertibly evil, but the Jedi are also evil and hide it behind a code of non-interference unless there are Sith hanging around. TheAnomaly fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Sep 15, 2020 |
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Sep 15, 2020 01:49
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3 posted:lmao, no one is arguing that the Empire isn't evil, it's loving Star Wars. Literal children know the Empire are the bad guys, I don't understand how people are freaking out that making this one TIE pilot kind of cool is going to confuse grown-rear end adults into thinking the Empire is the greatest thing ever. Humanizing the banality of evil isn't problematic, it's indicative of how these kinds of regimes actually operate. Grey being happily gay married doesn't make him automatically good, just like how that one navy seal who took part in the assassination of Bin Laden coming out as trans didn't make them not a war criminal. Tie Fighter, originally the disk version in 95 then in 98 I happily bought it again on glorious CD-Rom. Gotta earn them big bad guy secret cult tattoos. Seriously, who the gently caress isn't cartoonishly evil Tie Fighter? Out of the empire, I mean. The lady who stole the Tie/D creation plans and started manufacturing her own to sell them to the alliance might have been cool. But even the two defecting admirals/grand admirals are just angry that they aren't getting enough - one wanted more money and wasn't defecting so much as being bought out by the rebels and the other tried to kill the Emperor to make himself the new Emperor. As for racism/sexism - humans were "okay" in the Empire but every admiral/grand admiral except Thrawn in any actual Canon was male prior to the death of the Emperor. You get one woman who takes over in the X-Wing books to help lead the Imperial remnants but she wasn't an Admiral at the time of Palpatines death, she was a Governor who took command of a SD after the New Republic ousted her from her planet, and you get Thrawn as the only minority and he is GA because the Empire absolutely couldn't afford to let anyone else grab him up (and he only joined the Empire because he new about the stupid force-proof space bugs nonsense and thought only the Empire could stop them - his clear villain indicator being that he he always chose the statistically correct choice, actual morality of it be damned). Women may have been a part of the Empire just like women were a part of the Nazi's, but they certainly weren't in the upper echelons of Power.
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Sep 15, 2020 02:12
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Tom Guycot posted:I would make the point there is a very large distinction between humanizing The Empire, and humanizing individuals within that empire. The former I've never seen done, I've never seen The Empire itself humanized, not in this short, not in the leaked stuff we know about the prologue mission, not in the films. The Empire is unequivocally bad and is always shown as such, but that very different from making people within that system fleshed out creatures and not cardboard cutouts. Even in other fiction, like the gundam example, its the organization being given shades of grey as the problem, not a given person within it. okay, I'm going to chalk this one up to Poe's Law and assume you're being serious. The American's in Apocalypse Now were villains. The entire point of Apocalypse Now is (as it is in Heart of Darkness, the book it is loosely based on) that people who serve evil can't afford self reflection because then they will have to admit that they are evil. The fact that each protagonist in Apocalypse Now has a lovely situation that brought them to Vietnam does not excuse their behavior as servants of an evil Empire, and we are absolutely not supposed to forgive them for being there. Finally, you can humanize a villain without making them sympathetic. The problem with this trailer is that we are supposed to take Grey seriously as a sympathetic character who joined up for good reasons and is fighting for good reasons and is a good person in a bad situation working for the Nazis. The whole "decent person working for bad people because other people are worse" is a lovely trope and needs to go away - good people don't continue to work for bad people. Star Wars is also full of people who were raised under Imperial propoganda, found the truth, and then left (usually to the Rebel Alliance). From Wedge Antilles in the original to Agent Kallus in Rebels, Star Wars has an answer for "what happens when good people join the Empire" and it's not "they stay Imperials even after witnessing how moustache twirlingly evil it really is."
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Sep 15, 2020 03:00
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Tom Guycot posted:Thank you for missing the point in a spectacular way. I didn't miss your point, I refuted it. I was trying to do so with out being a smug facetious dick, but since you opened the can: Fine. Apocalypse Now doesn't have heroes, it has a series of undeniably evil protagonists who comically attempt to justify their own evil so they never have to face it. It is interesting as a film because we get to watch their worldview fall apart around them as the face the undeniable truths about the horrors of what they do and who they do it for. It is a fantastic piece that satires other war films as imperialist propaganda, which follows in the footsteps of the book it was loosely based upon. It was interesting as a film because it did not attempt to make its protagonists into heroes, something that EA has absolutely no track record of. You are willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, I am unwilling to consider any of their writers to be in the same caliber as Francis Ford Coppola, John Milius, or Joseph Conrad. HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:It absolutely does happen, though. Some folks want to mitigate the damage done by the worse people they work with/for. Some folks want to protect other folks they care about under the bad guys. Some just don't have a choice or an opportunity to get away. It takes a lot to leave any kind of oppressive regime, whether it be a cult, an extremist group or a nation. None of this absolves them of any wrongdoings, it just explains them, and why they didn't or can't leave. I agree that leaving evil is hard and carries consequences, and that can make for a compelling protagonist. Grey is not planning on leaving the Empire, and the background blurb we have on him. "Varko Grey was a human male ace pilot who led the Galactic Empire's Titan Squadron as Titan Leader with the military rank of captain. Grey initially fought to maintain order against corruption and injustice as a police officer on Parkella, although he eventually became an Imperial TIE pilot. As a pilot of the Empire, Grey believed that it was the only hope for a chaotic galaxy." He is literally the "good cop caught in a bad system trying to make things better" trope that always makes for terrible stories and is so tone deaf right now it hurts. As for Apocalypse Now, it's neither anti nor pro war. It's Anti Imperialism, which is why it's difficult to understand because most of us have been spoon fed pro-imperialism since childhood (at least in the US). It's stance on war is secondary to its stance on the evil inherent to Empires and to the people who help to expand and protect them.
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Sep 15, 2020 04:39
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:He believed that when he joined, hence the past tense. Later in that bio it says he disagrees with the Empire’s methods, but has seen too many brothers in arms die to back out now. It’s okay to not be a fan of that trope, but personally I enjoy it. I think the inner conflict can make for compelling characters and situations, though it’s all in the execution. There’s a film called The Eternal Zero that kinda plays with elements of that, a Japanese fighter pilot who’s not a huge fan of the war becoming a kamikaze pilot, and their grandchildren trying to understand his motivations by interviewing people who knew him. yeah, after re-reading some posts I realized that a huge part of the devolving argument was trust in EA's ability to actually pull anything off with it and a circular argument about whether or not humanizing fascists inherently humanizes fascism. I have 0 trust in EA to make anything worthwhile out of Grey as a character or as an example.
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Sep 15, 2020 22:03
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I went looking to see if this would be smart delivery, and EA's official answer is: "We currently have no plans to share around Squadrons coming to the Xbox Series X or PlayStation 5. --Tom" via their answered questions forums. So looks like there are no plans for any kind of next gen updates for the game, if anyone else was curious. Also, they recently confirmed HOTAS support at launch for both consoles as well as PC (apparently for a while the official answer was "we are working on it but don't count on it at launch"). EA/Motiv have not responded to questions about crossplay and whether or not it is optional, but they have confirmed to media outlets that crossplay is go for all consoles and VR. If you are worried about crossplay, it will probably not be optional as this genre has not done particularly well in the past 20 years and is only recently starting to make a comeback (I have heard offhand from some friends who work in the media side of the industry that the popularity of Battlefront 2's flight modes was part of how this got greenlit) which might also explain the price. If it was optional I'd imagine EA would confirm that, as opposed to staying silent about it. EDIT: I also could not find anything about whether or not you could squad up through crossplay and play with your friends on different platforms, and while my general experience with crossplay is that you can not, Origins and EA access means it might be possible with Squadrons. TheAnomaly fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Sep 16, 2020 |
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Sep 15, 2020 23:58
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Tom Guycot posted:Why would you want crossplay to be optional? Seems like its unambiguously good to have crossplay, its not like a FPS where the difference in controls is a big deal. controllers vs flightsticks, I don't know but people sure asked about it a lot in the answer forums so I thought some people might want to know.
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Sep 16, 2020 01:08
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:
yeah I definitely feel Crossplay is going to be essential unless this game somehow takes off like gangbusters and revitalizes a genre that has been badmouthed as dead/unsupportable by EA since :checks notes: Wing Commander 3
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Sep 16, 2020 01:41
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Kesper North posted:ye This is harder to do than you think; I saw Respawn talking about getting fallen order approved, and it takes quite a bit of time to get Disney to ok a Star Wars game if it has any story elements in it all. Probably a little bit easier for Squadrons since the legacy characters are mostly Cameos, but stuff like project Starhawk is now canon and requires approval from the higher ups at Disney and apparently even getting a meeting with them is difficult since they don't really care for video games.
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Oct 24, 2020 03:40
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smug jeebus posted:One might get the impression that they don't even give a poo poo about the story's quality The war against the empire is 1 year, but that's not because the rebels win (and coincides with the Thrawn books, which are still canon IIRC and have even added a prequel) it's because the empire falls apart and goes from a monolithic organization to a whole bunch of fractured groups usually clustered around one powerful leader, a handful of Star Destroyers, and a cluster of systems (which is what we see in The Mandolorian). For all of their "the old books are no longer canon" they're cribbing a ton from the old EU.
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Oct 25, 2020 19:07
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Snow Cone Capone posted:I'm only on the 5th or 6th mission, but am I the only one who felt that the first 2-3 missions were REALLY hard compared to the later ones? Been playing on veteran as well. The first missions aren't hard, you just haven't been taught anything about how to fly yet, how to use the radial commands, and you don't have a full payload. They are average difficulty missions where you don't have your tools yet.
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Nov 7, 2020 03:09
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