Cyberpunk 2077 - Are you a preem enough choom to rescue the President?

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Cyberpunk 2077 - Are you a preem enough choom to rescue the President?

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Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

wow, you mean game review sites gave a massive aaa release with tons of money put into it a 9/10?

# ¿ Dec 7, 2020 19:50

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 00:24

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

quote:

My V has a vagina and goes by �he,� but the game doesn�t seem to acknowledge that he�s a trans man; characters occasionally make reference to his dick or balls, though this could just as easily be metaphorical. In some scenes with hireable sex workers of different genders, I appeared to penetrate them�certainly possible, but with no indication that my character doesn�t have a biological dick. At one point a character made mention of the �mess� that is my V�s hormones, but I�m not sure if this is a reference to his body or something that would be said anyway.

# ¿ Dec 7, 2020 20:46

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

black.lion posted:

Hey so I mean this as a big question with zero rhetorical aim at all - is there a game that has stepped this thoroughly into trans dialog that has handled it better than CP2077 appears to have, based on this review (and others)?

I hear you on wanting positive trans characters 1000% (and I hope they're in there, hiding in the bajillion hours of sidequests that reviewers didn't have time to get to) but I took a moment to think back as if to say "yeah, like [that game]" but I drew a blank... what games have come out that really approached depicting trans persons, and of that list, which have done it well?

I mean, do you mean big tentpole AAA releases or all video games, ever.

# ¿ Dec 7, 2020 22:09

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

TwoHeadedDeer posted:

also he ended up not particularly liking the outer worlds after he finished, that tweet was an early impression

shh, that means i cant dismiss him out of hand for having a different opinion

# ¿ Dec 7, 2020 22:34

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Fat_Cow posted:

Game is fun. I wonder how many people are going to writhe about it when it launches.

describing people with different opinions as 'writhing' is extremely strange

# ¿ Dec 7, 2020 22:39

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

No Mods No Masters posted:

Disliking eurojank is at least as much of a sign of sickness of the soul as liking outer worlds

the guy you've been posting about didnt even like outer worlds by the end of playing it, he just had a positive impression in the first couple hours

# ¿ Dec 7, 2020 22:42

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Mordiceius posted:

Many reviewers are bad at writing proper critiques because many in video game press don�t actually have a proper background in critical analysis.

how dare you imply game reviewers are not very good writers

# ¿ Dec 7, 2020 22:52

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Zaphod42 posted:

https://twitter.com/GermanStrands/status/1336014953640325128?s=20

why does this have 4k likes

# ¿ Dec 7, 2020 23:34

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

sure its just wild to see even goons, in 2020, parading around 9/10 and 10/10 scores and defensively coming up with a list of reasons why the handful of mediocre reviews are invalid. its like nobodys grown up since people were melting down about twilight princess getting an 8.8.

# ¿ Dec 7, 2020 23:44

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Celexi posted:

I thought TLOU2 issue was chuds being mad at it.

TLOU2's issue was a lot of legitimate criticism being labelled as 'chuds getting mad at it,' just because chuds also happened to get mad at it

# ¿ Dec 7, 2020 23:54

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

I hope this game is good, it might be bad, it's weird to get insanely invested or feel validated one way or the other by its quality. never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game.

stev posted:

Mostly it was the chuds though.

Nah there was plenty of legit criticism.

Dapper_Swindler posted:

i thought most of the legit critcisms was "the one kids gender is sorta made into a trauma with the religious nuts dead naming him and poo poo" least thats what i heared. i havent finished it yet.

Even ignoring the way the trans character is handled, the violence is pretty stupid in the way it forces your hand and then tries to act like its making a big point about revenge. plus the ending is pretty stupid imo but I won't spoil it considering the last five words here

# ¿ Dec 7, 2020 23:58

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Celexi posted:

Messed up that a third person shooter has violence op.

yeah when i say 'the plot handles the violence poorly' what i mean is i want it not to have violence

# ¿ Dec 8, 2020 00:05

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Skyweir posted:

Genuinly curious about which games handle violence in the plot better

blaze union, a japan only strategy rpg for the psp. next question

# ¿ Dec 8, 2020 00:31

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

LionArcher posted:

I also find it gross when none queer/trans folks bring up the "problematic issues with TLOU2" when at least one trans reviewer said while the dead naming stuff was a tad rough in context and how the character was handled was far better than they had expected and were fine with it. If said poster is among said groups I apologize, it's just something I see often as a way of criticizing the game because it can win social points versus is something they care about.

wait

why does one trans person saying they're fine with it make that the default opinion everyone most hold? couldnt those non-queert/trans folk have seen a trans person talk about how they *weren't* fine with it. why is one second hand opinion better than the other.

# ¿ Dec 8, 2020 00:38

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Celexi posted:

So what you are saying is the opinion of the repressed group you like is only the one you like?

i genuinely cant parse this post at all

# ¿ Dec 8, 2020 00:43

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Control Volume posted:

I love politics in video games

lets go politics

Slumpy posted:

gently caress YOU

politics suck

# ¿ Dec 8, 2020 00:48

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

LionArcher posted:

sorry, several trans folks I talked to plus a reviewer is more accurate to my experience, but if trans folks did have a problem with it that's perfectly valid too. I'm saying I saw people bring up the trans point (at least on twitter) that were not and trying to use it as a way of attacking the game and that seemed gross to me.

Would it have been gross if a cis person praised it for its trans representation?

# ¿ Dec 8, 2020 00:49

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Yeah. The reviewer just said it was similar, not that it was one. And I expect that a person with epilepsy would know when something is similar to a pattern purposefully designed to cause seizures. And while it's definitely accidental it still speaks pretty poorly of the devs. They seriously couldn't figure that a sequence of extreme flashing lights might cause some seizures? We've all heard about the porygon episode of Pokemon.

# ¿ Dec 8, 2020 09:04

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

TheRat posted:

I mean..no?

It was a huge deal and permanently changed the standards for TV animation and is the reason every nintendo game has a big epilepsy warning at the start? Even if you've never heard of it you've seen the after effects.

# ¿ Dec 8, 2020 09:12

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

resetera sucks but also there's an entire cottage industry dedicated to saying everything you dont like is actually the fault of resetera.

# ¿ Dec 8, 2020 09:36

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Turin Turambar posted:

No offense, but isn't the voice controlling the gender more progressive than the body type selecting the gender? The game letting you select your gender separate of man/woman bodies isn't good? Yes, voice goes with it, which kinda makes sense for a scifi future? Because who wouldn't change the voice if he is going to change genders?
My supposition here is that in the dark future of Cyberpunk 2077, voice modifications are easily done, so anyone who wants to be considered a different gender than the default one have that. That was legit the first thing I thought about that. Maybe I'm a ' I see the the glass half full always' type of person.

1) If it's the gritty sci-fi future, wouldn't anyone have any voice they wanted and have it be completely disconnected from their conception of gender? why would a magical future where anyone can have a massive hog suddenly be gender essentialist about a person's voice? Like, shouldn't there be women going around sounding like darth vader and poo poo? It's just another 'mod,' a way of making yourself distinct, which seems like something the society in the setting is all for.

2) The concept of voice equalling your gender is an old transphobic trope. Obviously just hearing a man's voice, without any other context and going 'oh, that's a man' isn't transphobic, it's just the result of socialization, but think of the trope of a sexy lady but... oh no! they're a tranny! and then they have the gravelly voice of a guy who smokes, or something. And it's still something that's used to discriminate against trans people today. Recently there was a big blowup where some female streamer had a 'women only' channel in their discord, and the method to 'prove' you were a woman was voice chat. Specifically as a way to weed out transwomen.

3) In real life, most trans people have to train their voices incredibly hard to 'pass' vocally, and there's people who just can't manage it. Even if it makes sense in universe, Cyberpunk 2077 is a game that exists in real life. It's reasonable those people would want to play a character who matches their experiences. And again, see point 1.

4) It kind of betrays how shoddily implemented the trans stuff is. The actual reason for this 'choice' is they didn't want to have to rewrite dialogue where the male/female voice protag refers to themselves as male/female. This is pretty solidly proven by the fact that you can get dialogue referencing your dick/pussy even if you don't have one, and the fact that sex scenes are animated based on your gender, not your genitals. (Which is another instance where some kind of choice would be fairly easy to implement and improve the ability to roleplay a lot.)

I'm not saying the game is a monolithic tribute to transphobia just that it's kinda lame and lazy, and betrays a misunderstanding of the issue. I don't think that's an unreasonable criticism.

# ¿ Dec 8, 2020 10:02

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Horizon Burning posted:

it's better if npcs don't magically know what genitalia you have

i have no idea what the 'pick you're genitals' actually adds to this game but it seems a shockingly strange decision

i feel like the NPCs youre loving might know what genitals you have.

also, if this is the cyberpunk future where you can have any genitals you want, wouldn't assuming someones genitals based on their gender presentation die out as a concept

# ¿ Dec 8, 2020 11:47

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Croccers posted:

I didn't follow the development and hype for this game so I dunno, but did the Devs ever promise/say they were going to make the game have the world's deepest character customization with amazing well thought out transrights issues at heart?
I don't remember seeing the Shadowrun's get lambasted over the lack of transrights in the character customization and how the world reacts to it.

The game has an ad of a lady with a giant dick every five minutes, they made a cis lady cosplaying the lady with a giant dick their official cosplay girl, and they specifically introduced the ability to play a trans character in response to criticisms about the ad of the lady with the giant dick, instead of just taking the ad out. I think this is a fight they chose.

# ¿ Dec 8, 2020 11:52

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Horizon Burning posted:

endorph, please don't act like them saying 'cis characters only, sorry, we're sticking to a strict binary' would be a better result

where did i say that, exactly. can you diagram it. can you point to it on a chart.

# ¿ Dec 8, 2020 11:55

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

a restaurant is criticized for not offering vegan options. the restaurant promises to offer vegan options in the future. i go to the restaurant and order a vegan lasagna. the vegan lasagna is burnt.

'excuse me, my lasagna is burnt,' i say to the waitress

'oh, so it would have been better if there was no lasagna?' the waitress responds

# ¿ Dec 8, 2020 11:58

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Slugnoid posted:

Endorph, I think your seeing malice where it doesnt exist. A cisgendered layman like myself assumed this game was basically going for gold standard trans representation by letting you literally make a trans character. I assume the devs thought they were doing it right too.

Where did I say there was malice? I said it was lazy and spoke to a misunderstanding, not that the devs are turbobigots. I wasn't saying anyone was stupid for enjoying it or getting anything out of it, just that there's some missteps and mistakes in the execution and that their core premise is kind of flawed. The fact that you're acting like mild criticism is 'attributing malice' is kind of hosed up tbh.

Endorph fucked around with this message at 12:29 on Dec 8, 2020

# ¿ Dec 8, 2020 12:26

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Slugnoid posted:

i might have not read through your posts closely enough, soz

I mean even if you only skimmed I literally made this disclaimer

quote:

I'm not saying the game is a monolithic tribute to transphobia just that it's kinda lame and lazy, and betrays a misunderstanding of the issue. I don't think that's an unreasonable criticism.

Because you have to include disclaimers like that every time you make even the mildest criticism like that or else people will act like you're leading a holy crusade. Apparently people do that even if you do include the disclaimers, though.

TheRat posted:

I don't feel like it's fair to blame the large score of absolute cunts on the internet on a specific dev. They're going to be awful people no matter what, the cause doesn't matter.

AAA games marketing is absolutely meant to inspire that kind of defensiveness, brand loyalty, and self-identification. It's not a problem unique to this game or even to AAA games (see the meltdowns whenever anyone of any prominence criticizes marvel movies), and the endgoal is just to get people to buy the product, not harass people online, but there's no way you can be pushing a game this hard in the year 2020 and not be aware of how people are going to react to anything negative about the game they've decided is their personality now.

# ¿ Dec 8, 2020 12:36

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

doingitwrong posted:

Maybe �How to be a fan of problematic things� should be added to the OP
https://socialjusticeleaguenet.wordpress.com/2011/09/18/how-to-be-a-fan-of-problematic-things/

tbh im not a fan of that sort of framing because it kind of takes as granted that there's no conversation to be had about what is/isnt problematic - if someone says something is problematic then it is. furthermore theres criticisms being made that don't really have anything to do with social justice or anything, like glitches or inconsistent writing quality. I think you can just say 'be a grown-rear end adult and accept that people make criticism sometimes.'

# ¿ Dec 8, 2020 12:52

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Bust Rodd posted:

If you want to be a trans person in the game and you were excited about that, please dont let a handful of effortposts on fuckin resetERA be what yucks your yum. This game has the capacity to be deeply empowering for queer people, and yet the discourse around it seems so cut & dry despite no one even playing the drat thing yet. Should one trans game reviewer from Polygon speak for your entire culture, like the King or Queen of all LGBTQ folks passing down a decree from their extremely tacky throne? Or should you, a queer person in your own right, make up your own mind about what you want this game to represent to you?

I've been beaten up and called enough slurs to know what hate feels like and sounds like, and a video game where you get to select your gender and your pronouns and be gay is definitely NOT IT

people are free to have whatever opinions they want but acting like one polygon reviewer is 'speaking for your entire culture, passing down a decree from their extremely tacky throne' is insane poo poo. they just gave, their opinion.

# ¿ Dec 8, 2020 15:15

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Dongicus posted:

Can't wait until the Culture War around this game is over.

itll never be over op

# ¿ Dec 8, 2020 15:16

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Bust Rodd posted:

Like, way to take all the gay and trans people who work for CDPR and just casually discard them like garbage in your quest for better representation, lmao...

the only person who said that in this thread was someone defending the game's trans representation.

# ¿ Dec 8, 2020 15:17

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

TheRat posted:

People have been doing this in these threads for a long loving time

why have you people been arguing with each other to death in threads about a game that isnt even out, for years

# ¿ Dec 8, 2020 15:21

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Celexi posted:

" your honor my client put a warning in the 30 page EULA "

Eulas are not legally enforceable anyway.

maybe nboody read the eula because its written like this

# ¿ Dec 9, 2020 02:27

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

why is this game just lifting dialogue straight from portal 2

# ¿ Dec 12, 2020 00:26

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/1337555816417800194

a performance bonus at only 90+ on metacritic? how loving evil are these people

# ¿ Dec 12, 2020 02:24

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

MazelTovCocktail posted:

Eh it's still cool what they did. More then Todd ever did for Obsidian.

quote:

Every month, team leaders at the company gave out tokens styled after the studio�s logo, a red bird, to members of their team they felt deserved honors, according to three current and former employees. Those tokens would have then been transferred into bonuses if the game met certain criteria, like critical acclaim and a timely release.

getting novelty tokens as a bonus, that can only be converted into cash under arbitrary conditions i have no control over

# ¿ Dec 12, 2020 02:26

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

MazelTovCocktail posted:

That's still cool. I mean maybe I would have said 85 (and a - minus range to account for dipshits), but it's nice to see them have a system that actually acknowledges people. It's not something to plan your livelihood on, but much like giving points at one company I know for that can be redeemed for Amazon gift cards).

no bonuses should be based on metacritic score, but on work done. you can force the employees to work drastic amounts of overtime and they should be paid for that, not whether or not it comes together into a game that ign likes.

# ¿ Dec 12, 2020 02:31

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

https://www.reddit.com/r/cyberpunkgame/comments/kcjdis/decided_to_test_how_bad_the_cop_spawning_issue_is/

the cops teleporting in feels really bad

# ¿ Dec 14, 2020 07:17

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Wolfsheim posted:

the one hit kill guards in witcher 3 were equally superfluous and this feels more like a 'people would bitch if the cops didnt fight you because open world' addition that the game would have been nearly the same without

yeah but witcher 3 wasn't really selling you on 'you can go anywhere, do anything.' it was selling, being geralt. geralt wasn't really the type to do random crimes so it makes sense that the game would just go 'no' when you tried to. the appeal was having a bunch of jobs to do and taking on those jobs and exploring the world, but you were very specifically geralt, a witcher, and going through the world the way he would. this game's marketing was all 'you can BE ANYONE' but if you do a crime the cops teleport in like 3.5e wizards and murder you.

# ¿ Dec 14, 2020 07:25

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 00:24

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

https://twitter.com/JumpOvertheAge/status/1338929166301990914

https://twitter.com/JumpOvertheAge/status/1338929179656597504

# ¿ Dec 16, 2020 00:16

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