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Borsche69
May 8, 2014



i hate rooting for these assholes. i love them, but i hate it.

van dijk being out obviously sucks but de ligt being out is arguably worse since it fucks with how they've been preparing.

everyone screaming about 5-3-2 vs 4-3-3. FDB sucks but everyone at NOS and IV absolutely needs to shut the gently caress up for two seconds.

uhhh lemme think. depay seems to finally be getting better? and wergourst and malen have some good potential. but strength is still in the back i guess. whatever.

dumfries looked both really good and really annoying against ukraine. constantly open but unable to execute until he could put the game away.

i'll be happy if the make it to the quarterfinals. i mean i won't be happy, because they're going to lose. but i'll pretendl ike im happy (i wont even pretend)

lets place bets on what retreads they want to hire after they sack de boer. i'm putting money on either van basten or hiddink

whatever. it doesnt matter. none of this matters.

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Borsche69
May 8, 2014



unban oliwan but train him to the swiss thread

Tokyo Sexwale
Jul 30, 2003



on the other hand, don't unban him

Koesj
Aug 3, 2003


Swiss thread is thataway

CyberPingu
Sep 15, 2013

If you're not striving to improve, you'll end up going backwards.

Tokyo Sexwale posted:

on the other hand, don't unban him

Borsche69
May 8, 2014



Tokyo Sexwale posted:

on the other hand, don't unban him

Borsche69
May 8, 2014



the austria game was a lot better defensively, de ligt back in the lineup really obviously helped. otherwise it looked like austria did a pretty good job of pressing up and making life difficult for the intermediate passing game. unfortunately for them thats basically all they could do, basically every attack got snuffed out immediately. never felt like they ever threatened, unlike the ukraine game where, even though we were dominating posession, there were more than a couple of opportunities for them.

definitely felt like one of those games where one play over the top was going to really punish austria, and while not exactly that, the depay to malen ball was absolutely beautiful and it was very cathartic to see them not gently caress up the finish for once. dumfries looks great and someone's going to overpay him lol.

austria probably should've gotten a penalty before the dutch one but they never bothered replaying it so i didn't get a good look.

yeah pretty solid stuff overall. now its really making me wish virgil was in. i wasn't expecting much before hand but now its like 'oh okay they can play some pretty sound football. probably could sniff the QF if he was in'. otoh what they need more than virgil is either for depiss to not gently caress up every golden opportunity or for 2010 robben to loving drop out of the sky. whatever.

Koesj
Aug 3, 2003


What difference would van dijk make in that back three compared to Blind? At least with ol' slowpoke there's always an outlet with a nice pass, which helps a ton against all those packed midfields. I'd agree that te ligt / de vrij / van dijk is pretty much the ideal back three in modern football, but not with those guys on the flanks and de roon in front.

e: thinking on it some more, I wonder if that back three with Malacia and Domfries/Hateboer or whoever plus Gravenbergh/de Jong in front could bring it home next year

Koesj fucked around with this message at 12:45 on Jun 19, 2021

Borsche69
May 8, 2014



Koesj posted:

What difference would van dijk make in that back three compared to Blind? At least with ol' slowpoke there's always an outlet with a nice pass, which helps a ton against all those packed midfields. I'd agree that te ligt / de vrij / van dijk is pretty much the ideal back three in modern football, but not with those guys on the flanks and de roon in front.

e: thinking on it some more, I wonder if that back three with Malacia and Domfries/Hateboer or whoever plus Gravenbergh/de Jong in front could bring it home next year

yeah agreed. not like you dont always want your best players out there but its pretty obvious how much de ligt being back there has solidified things that its hard to say virgil being out is such an issue.

dumfries has been a revelation on the wing and depays versatility has made up for his poo poo striking. theyre definitely more creating chances more freely than i thought they would. i also really like malen and him starting instead of werghourst (or even brought on early at half time) would make for a much faster counter breaking team.

still hope some world class striker gets unearthed in the next 6 months though.

Gigi Galli
Sep 19, 2003

WORLD COMPETITVE VAPING CHAMPION 2017/18
~~PHAT CLOUDS~~
NASIOC MASSIVE
~~MONSTER ENERGY~~


I thought Dumfries played like total poo poo in the first 45 minutes of the first match the Netherlands played and since then he's been really great.

Borsche69
May 8, 2014



Gigi Galli posted:

I thought Dumfries played like total poo poo in the first 45 minutes of the first match the Netherlands played and since then he's been really great.

He did everything right except for the finish, as per the standards of the team lol

Koesj
Aug 3, 2003


Gigi Galli posted:

I thought Dumfries played like total poo poo in the first 45 minutes of the first match the Netherlands played and since then he's been really great.

Imagine Hateboer or Goossens but with even less technical ability, i.e. hes fine as a modern fullback/wingback.

Id also rather have him go to Serie A to get some defensive steel drilled into him rather than a hosed up chaosleague like the BPL.

poty
Jun 21, 2008

虹はどこで終わるのですか? あなたの魂の中で、または地平線で?


Memphis got signed by Barcelona so he can't be that bad

Borsche69
May 8, 2014



poty posted:

Memphis got signed by Barcelona so he can't be that bad

Elliptical Dick
Oct 11, 2008

I made the bald man cry
into the turtle stew


I'm getting heavy 2008 vibes from this tournament. Although tbf we actually had a really good team then. Right now we're just kind of meh

Borsche69
May 8, 2014



Elliptical Dick posted:

I'm getting heavy 2008 vibes from this tournament. Although tbf we actually had a really good team then. Right now we're just kind of meh

Yeah 2008 was more like the team peaking and choking. It wasn't as bad of a group as it looked on paper - France wasn't great and I think that was part of their post 2006 explosion. Italy was also trending down after they'd won it, for whatever reason. You just never expect us to win those games, and especially that comfortably. But otherwise it was sort of like 'oh they're finally living up to the talent they have' before making GBS threads the bed.

This is more like 'oh poo poo that's not as ugly as I was expecting' outside of some shaky defending against Ukraine. (seriously, the space afforded here is criminal, and everyone is looking at someone else thinking they're supposed to fill it. even if requires a beautiful low percentage strike)



I was just hoping they wouldn't embarrass themselves and, while there's still time left for that, they mostly haven't. poo poo, some of the pre tournament predictions had them finishing second or even third. If they win another game, then the whole thing was a big success. In 2008, you felt like they should've at least made the finals.

Borsche69
May 8, 2014



Some of the expectations depend on who they face in R16 though. I think the only combinations left are the Czech, and whoever's third in Group F (which feels like it could be any combination of teams).

Elliptical Dick
Oct 11, 2008

I made the bald man cry
into the turtle stew


Borsche69 posted:

Some of the expectations depend on who they face in R16 though. I think the only combinations left are the Czech, and whoever's third in Group F (which feels like it could be any combination of teams).

Correct. If Slovakia v Spain does not end in a draw and Poland does not win, NL plays Czechia in the round of 16. In all other scenarios it's #3 from Group F according to an article I read on nos.nl

Borsche69
May 8, 2014



Elliptical Dick posted:

Correct. If Slovakia v Spain does not end in a draw and Poland does not win, NL plays Czechia in the round of 16. In all other scenarios it's #3 from Group F according to an article I read on nos.nl

I posted this in the other thread but I hate best third place teams poo poo so much lol

Elliptical Dick
Oct 11, 2008

I made the bald man cry
into the turtle stew


Borsche69 posted:

I posted this in the other thread but I hate best third place teams poo poo so much lol

It's hella dumb op

Elliptical Dick
Oct 11, 2008

I made the bald man cry
into the turtle stew


NL - Czechia it is

Borsche69
May 8, 2014



That's cool, should be a fun game. I don't really have any thoughts on how Czechia have done so far, pretty meh overall I guess. I think we can beat them probably comfortably but more important is that if I had to lose, I would rather lose to them than Portugal/Germany/France again.

NinpoEspiritoSanto
Oct 22, 2013



lol of course it's the Germans it was always going to be the Germans

Borsche69
May 8, 2014



Bundy posted:

lol of course it's the Germans it was always going to be the Germans

Its cool cause Germany look like total poo poo but its also England so who knows. For some reason I'm expecting either team to lose to Sweden on some last second set piece in the quarterfinals lol

Borsche69
May 8, 2014



piece of poo poo team lived up to expectations. or maybe exceeded them, which might be worse lol

Borsche69
May 8, 2014



Borsche69 posted:

lets place bets on what retreads they want to hire after they sack de boer. i'm putting money on either van basten or hiddink



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KV-GJ9iNX8g

Borsche69
May 8, 2014



can't even really blame this on fdb, at least he's smart enough to play a system for hte players he has instead of the players he wants

nutri_void
Apr 18, 2015

I shall devour your soul.


Grimey Drawer


Bring Advocaat out of retirement for the 20th time just for lols

Insurrectionist
May 21, 2007



why not simply dig Cruijff up and prop him on the bench for moral support?

won't need a coach then

An insane mind
Aug 11, 2018



Why not have Daley Blind run a coaching/playing double for the next WC, it's not as if it'd change much for our chances.
Honestly I'd rather try a foreign coach, but that seems to be not done.

Borsche69
May 8, 2014



An insane mind posted:

Why not have Daley Blind run a coaching/playing double for the next WC, it's not as if it'd change much for our chances.
Honestly I'd rather try a foreign coach, but that seems to be not done.

I've been banging the drum for a foreign coach since after 2014. It's not just player development that has regressed, but different minded coaches immediately get stomped out at every level. Frankly just burn down the KNVB and start over

An insane mind
Aug 11, 2018



Borsche69 posted:

I've been banging the drum for a foreign coach since after 2014. It's not just player development that has regressed, but different minded coaches immediately get stomped out at every level. Frankly just burn down the KNVB and start over

Exactly, we keep going back to guys who as footballers rightly got praise for being great footballers, but what do they bring to the current Dutch team as a coach that a foreign coach couldn't do better? But when I mention that I just don't understand the dutch football mentality.

Elliptical Dick
Oct 11, 2008

I made the bald man cry
into the turtle stew


I think they should try and get Erik ten Hag or someone like that who has actually proved to be a successful innovator. Someone who makes players better but I'm pretty sure FdB will remain in place and we will fail to qualify for the World Cup

Her Dryer
Oct 14, 2012


Imagining an alternative reality where the 2020 Euros are held in 2020, Van Dijk is fully fit and Koeman is still the coach...

Borsche69
May 8, 2014



An insane mind posted:

Exactly, we keep going back to guys who as footballers rightly got praise for being great footballers, but what do they bring to the current Dutch team as a coach that a foreign coach couldn't do better? But when I mention that I just don't understand the dutch football mentality.

Well to a lot of these dudes the game was invented in 74 and perfected in 88 and there's no other possible way to play the game. And they think they've perfected the player development system so they can always just find another guy to shoehorn into their system.

Of course then they quietly forget about all the managers before 74 that taught them football as they know it.

Borsche69
May 8, 2014



It doesn't help that, in traditional Dutch fashion, I'm sure all the managers at every level absolutely hate the KNVB and will always springboard from the national team to the first job offer they get so they can tell them to gently caress off.

Elliptical Dick
Oct 11, 2008

I made the bald man cry
into the turtle stew


Borsche69 posted:

It doesn't help that, in traditional Dutch fashion, I'm sure all the managers at every level absolutely hate the KNVB and will always springboard from the national team to the first job offer they get so they can tell them to gently caress off.

True

belgend
Mar 6, 2008

League: Jupiler
Cup: Croky
Trophies: None
Yep, it's Belgefoot time


Elliptical Dick posted:

I think they should try and get Erik ten Hag or someone like that who has actually proved to be a successful innovator. Someone who makes players better but I'm pretty sure FdB will remain in place and we will fail to qualify for the World Cup

What players has ten Hag made better

Elliptical Dick
Oct 11, 2008

I made the bald man cry
into the turtle stew


belgend posted:

What players has ten Hag made better

Right I could go through a list but that seems kinda pointless. Ten Hag has made teams better than the sum of their parts had a right to be. Do you disagree?

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NinpoEspiritoSanto
Oct 22, 2013



Elliptical Dick posted:

Right I could go through a list

Well go on then

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