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Bananaquiter posted:Just watched it an enjoyed it up until they got to the space ghost Hari puppetmaster bullshit and I now hate the foundation and every member of it. I've come to the conclusion Hollywood can't handle themes. Not a one of their writers are equipped for it. Even when the source material repeats ad nauseum, in text, not subtext "the theme of this book is the forces that operate on human society and how societies form and collapse", they'll still end up with "plucky group of 3-5 people overcome their differences and join together to fight the big bad guy". It's not that that's a bad story, Star Wars IV-VI were fantastic. It's just that that is not the <b>only</b> story. Everyone and their mother has made the observation that that is what happened to Game of Thrones, but dammit, it's a good example.
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Mar 24, 2022 16:17
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Literally Lewis Hamilton posted:I hope season 2 is just Lee Pace’s Cleon realizing the empire is hosed and he embarks on a 9 episode junket of debauchery, fully oiled up and at least shirtless the entire time. Turns out the mausoleum of incompetence was the writers' room ikanreed posted:I've come to the conclusion Hollywood can't handle themes. Not a one of their writers are equipped for it. Even when the source material repeats ad nauseum, in text, not subtext "the theme of this book is the forces that operate on human society and how societies form and collapse", they'll still end up with "plucky group of 3-5 people overcome their differences and join together to fight the big bad guy". I read a review from some idiot online that said in the Batman movie "Nothing he did mattered! He could have just stayed home the whole time!" I haven't seen the movie yet, but does this moron review think, maybe, just maybe, that was the point all along? ElGroucho fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Mar 24, 2022 |
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Mar 24, 2022 16:27
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ikanreed posted:I've come to the conclusion Hollywood can't handle themes. Not a one of their writers are equipped for it. Even when the source material repeats ad nauseum, in text, not subtext "the theme of this book is the forces that operate on human society and how societies form and collapse", they'll still end up with "plucky group of 3-5 people overcome their differences and join together to fight the big bad guy". Themes? Well, we can do heavy-handed allusions to climate change, and we can talk about a really bad politician while staring into the camera and saying "his treachery TRUMPS anything we've seen before" then winking... those are themes, right?
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Mar 24, 2022 17:49
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Okay whew I never checked this thread but I thought I might have been wrong on this show being loving terrible. WHY THE gently caress do they keep putting hack writers who write terrible poo poo that is very poorly critically received in charge of writing poo poo with huge budget and amazing visuals? It always loving sucks. Oh hey I'm the fully aware cyberghost of the smartest person in the loving universe. No, I will not react to a direct and repeated threat by someone who is physically there holding a blunt object saying she's going to destroy the loving ship that humanity being saved is riding on that I have no chance of stopping except by just telling her what's going on that she's going to find out anyway. For what seems to be an exclusive show-production purpose, which is to avoid showing what might be one of the most interesting, visually and otherwise, planet science fiction can offer. Oh hey a boring actor holds a close up boringly. For extended periods of time while they are also perfect at everything and also seem annoyed that everyone around them aren't as great as they are. While also making nonsensical decisions that all work out fine for them in the end. This is a non-book reader take.
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Apr 11, 2022 16:49
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Justin Credible posted:Okay whew I never checked this thread but I thought I might have been wrong on this show being loving terrible. WHY THE gently caress do they keep putting hack writers who write terrible poo poo that is very poorly critically received in charge of writing poo poo with huge budget and amazing visuals? It always loving sucks. If you read the books it would feel much worse
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Apr 11, 2022 16:52
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That's kind of what I gathered. Just wish we could get some quality entertainment if everything else in life has to be so stupid. Ah well, BCS and Barry both come back this month. 
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Apr 11, 2022 16:58
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The show actually turned me off from reading the books. Same with WoT. I just can’t be hosed now.
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Apr 11, 2022 17:41
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tbh I think the shows did you a favor, Foundation and WoT were my favorite series growing up and the only book I'd recommend out of the lot is the first Foundation. It's a brisk read that doesn't even make a pretense at developing characters, it's basically just a delivery mechanism for Asimov's big idea about predicting the future via statistics applied to socioeconomic forces. I still have a lot of fondness for WoT but as a new reader in 2022? Ehhh... unless you're really really into long plodding fantasy series with lots of World Building and you don't mind outdated gender politics.
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Apr 11, 2022 18:06
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Chomposaur posted:tbh I think the shows did you a favor, Foundation and WoT were my favorite series growing up and the only book I'd recommend out of the lot is the first Foundation. It's a brisk read that doesn't even make a pretense at developing characters, it's basically just a delivery mechanism for Asimov's big idea about predicting the future via statistics applied to socioeconomic forces. Asimovs best work is always his short stories. He is not a serial or a character writer at all, and he always fails when he tries.
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Apr 11, 2022 18:33
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I’ve recently re-read Foundation, Foundation and Empire, and Second Foundation after not reading them for maybe 20-25 years. They actually held up a little better than I expected. They generally aren’t what you’d call exciting and sometimes get a little monologue heavy but they are quick reads and I mostly liked the style of writing. I wouldn’t say they are must-reads but I also wouldn’t discourage someone from giving them a try. Compare this to Around the World in 80 Days which I just re-read as well which was sooooo cringy and greatly improved by the recent TV remake.
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Apr 11, 2022 18:33
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Rutibex posted:Asimovs best work is always his short stories. He is not a serial or a character writer at all, and he always fails when he tries. Foundation was a series of short stories though?
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Apr 11, 2022 19:11
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BetterLekNextTime posted:I’ve recently re-read Foundation, Foundation and Empire, and Second Foundation after not reading them for maybe 20-25 years. They actually held up a little better than I expected. They generally aren’t what you’d call exciting and sometimes get a little monologue heavy but they are quick reads and I mostly liked the style of writing. I wouldn’t say they are must-reads but I also wouldn’t discourage someone from giving them a try. The comedy option is to read the full Foundation series, where after the first three Asimov gets horny. It's tame by sci-fi standards, but still. I think I've actually last re-read the Daneel and Elijah Baley novels, and there's some horny in there, but Elijah at least resembles a character.
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Apr 11, 2022 19:14
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Literally Lewis Hamilton posted:Foundation was a series of short stories though? Yeah and the good Foundation novels are the short story ones. The bad Foundation novels are the ones where we learn Hari Seldons super cool backstory. Rappaport posted:The comedy option is to read the full Foundation series, where after the first three Asimov gets horny. It's tame by sci-fi standards, but still. I read those novels as a teen and I remember Elijah Baley traveling to a spacer world where some scientist woman was having sex with her own father? This was fine because in their culture every baby is raised by the government or something. It was hosed up Rutibex fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Apr 11, 2022 |
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Apr 11, 2022 21:05
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Rutibex posted:I read those novels as a teen and I remember Elijah Baley traveling to a spacer world where some scientist woman was having sex with her own father? This was fine because in their culture every baby is raised by the government or something. It was hosed up Are you conflating Naked Sun and Robots of Dawn? In the first one, there is a weird planet with a complete taboo on personal touch, but Gladia isn't married to her father, and in the latter, she has a relationship with a robot. e: Wait no, I'm misremembering, it's told in Dawn that Han Fastolfe had sex with his daughter in the past. Dang. But it's also implied that Fastolfe is a bit weird, and his daughter resents his behaviour. Either way, if you aren't familiar with Robert Heinlein, sci-fi classics have some messed up horny stuff in them! Rappaport fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Apr 11, 2022 |
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Apr 11, 2022 21:24
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Rappaport posted:Are you conflating Naked Sun and Robots of Dawn? In the first one, there is a weird planet with a complete taboo on personal touch, but Gladia isn't married to her father, and in the latter, she has a relationship with a robot. I just read these books so let me see if I can remember... Fastolfe was a weirdo who raised his own daughter, when all other children were raised in government nurseries/schools. When she reached whatever age the Spacers considered appropriate for sex, she asked Fastolfe to be her first but he refused, which made her hate him IIRC. edit: Asimov was horny but not quite so horny for family-fuckin' as Heinlein, who got downright weird in his later years. Asimov's real-life behavior was worse than anything he wrote.
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Apr 11, 2022 21:40
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I just read Alec Nevala-Lee's book Astounding: John W. Campbell, Isaac Asimov, Robert A. Heinlein, L. Ron Hubbard, and the Golden Age of Science Fiction, which I would highly recommend if you are interested in either those four figures or the broader golden age of sci-fi in the US. The author uses those four men, and Astounding magazine overall, to look at the golden age, and man.... Asimov doesn't come across quite as bad as the rest (he's the only one who basically didn't destroy every personal relationship by the end of his life) but it's definitely a bit of being glad of never meeting your idols. Hubbard everyone knows about, but Campbell and Heinlein really come across as grade A assholes. Heinlein's wife had to lie to him when he was on his deathbed that all of his friends were writing and calling to check in on him, because by then he had burned all his bridges and none of them wanted anything to do with him even when he was about to die.
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Apr 11, 2022 21:51
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Pham Nuwen posted:I just read these books so let me see if I can remember... Fastolfe was a weirdo who raised his own daughter, when all other children were raised in government nurseries/schools. When she reached whatever age the Spacers considered appropriate for sex, she asked Fastolfe to be her first but he refused, which made her hate him IIRC. drat, that's right, I misremembered twice  Thanks for the correction. It's terrible that Asimov was a sex pest, but I'm not sure the horniness was the point in his fiction, he seemed more interested in exploring weird societies. Earth had weird customs, Solaria had weirder customs, and even Aurora, supposedly the most enlightened Spacer world, was weird. Now that we're talking about this, I wonder if the Spacer-Baley novels would be 'easier' to adapt than Foundation? The stories themselves are just detective novels in weird places, cast Chris Meloni as Baley and I dunno, Tom Hiddleston as Daneel and just let them play the stories as presented.
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Apr 11, 2022 21:53
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I was inspired by this thread to read a couple of articles about Asimov's behavior towards women and I now regret the respect I once held for him. I hope all of his works are ruined with unfaithful adaptations like I,Robot and this show. Bring on season 2, may the sexual predator spin in his grave.
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Apr 11, 2022 22:06
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Rappaport posted:Now that we're talking about this, I wonder if the Spacer-Baley novels would be 'easier' to adapt than Foundation? The stories themselves are just detective novels in weird places, cast Chris Meloni as Baley and I dunno, Tom Hiddleston as Daneel and just let them play the stories as presented. The Bantam Spectra paperback covers in the 1990s clearly used Alec Baldwin as the basis for Baley and Odo from DS9 as Daneel. https://www.clivemaxfield.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/maxncb-0033-02-isaac-asimov-the-caves-of-steel-naked-sun-1024x729.jpg
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Apr 11, 2022 22:24
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Chairman Capone posted:The Bantam Spectra paperback covers in the 1990s clearly used Alec Baldwin as the basis for Baley and Odo from DS9 as Daneel. Those are my childhood memories too for both characters! But Bailey is supposed to be at least somewhat ugly, or rugged, and Daneel is meant to be a beautiful Spacer boy.
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Apr 11, 2022 22:27
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KPC_Mammon posted:I was inspired by this thread to read a couple of articles about Asimov's behavior towards women and I now regret the respect I once held for him. Oh no what
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Apr 11, 2022 23:10
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Rappaport posted:Now that we're talking about this, I wonder if the Spacer-Baley novels would be 'easier' to adapt than Foundation? The stories themselves are just detective novels in weird places, cast Chris Meloni as Baley and I dunno, Tom Hiddleston as Daneel and just let them play the stories as presented.
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Apr 11, 2022 23:20
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Taear posted:Oh no what Isaac Asimov: Prolific author, even more prolific sexual assaulter quote:The writer and editor Judith Merril recalled that Asimov was known in the 1940s as “the man with a hundred hands,” and that he “apparently felt obliged to leer, ogle, pat, and proposition as an act of sociability.”
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Apr 11, 2022 23:37
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Welp. gently caress.
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Apr 12, 2022 00:44
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this show sucked rear end
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Apr 12, 2022 04:04
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Google Butt posted:this show sucked rear end Huntress: Exactly as I skillfully planned 
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Apr 12, 2022 04:55
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https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/a40687457/foundation-season-2-release-date-cast-plot/
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Oct 13, 2022 15:07
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I'll watch it. Maybe it will be good 
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Oct 13, 2022 15:27
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That article reminded me of a sixteen page narrative recipe for tomato soup, when do the Cleons return to us?
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Oct 13, 2022 15:34
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Not mentioned in thr article, but apparently Rachel House is joining the show next season too. She's awesome.External Organs posted:That article reminded me of a sixteen page narrative recipe for tomato soup, when do the Cleons return to us? Unknown, it's filming now.
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Oct 13, 2022 15:53
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I'll keep watching it for the Cleons, even though the entire half of the show about Seldon and Terminus landed with a wet thud.
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Oct 13, 2022 17:05
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Powered Descent posted:I'll keep watching it for the Cleons, even though the entire half of the show about Seldon and Terminus landed with a wet thud. It really does feel like they had a neat story about a trip of galactic clone emperors and the only way they could get it made was to staple it to the side of the most boring rear end, plot hole ridden foundation adaptation they could find.
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Oct 13, 2022 18:21
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Powered Descent posted:I'll keep watching it for the Cleons, even though the entire half of the show about Seldon and Terminus landed with a wet thud. I was kinda hopeful going into episode 10 because I thought there'd be a time jump after and they could jettison Hardin and Dornick, the two biggest drags on this show. Unfortunately, only half right.
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Oct 13, 2022 18:25
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The Galactic Onion: gently caress everything, we’re doing five heads
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Oct 15, 2022 19:59
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I'd rate this show about equivalent to the first season of expanse.
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Dec 1, 2022 20:22
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gently caress you
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Dec 2, 2022 00:25
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I know some people don't like the expanse but that's harsh
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Dec 2, 2022 00:31
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GodFish posted:I know some people don't like the expanse but that's harsh I like both very much. But Foundation's first season kept on being far interesting. I remember being bored by Donnager battle in The Expanse, because it was yet another space battle where the ships just fly straight at each other going pew pew. I don't think there was any space battle like that in the first season of Foundation which felt refreshing for a sci fi space opera. That episode of the Expanse is the highest rated of the first season on IMDB though, so IDK. I guess people just can't get enough of drawn out space ship battles in tv and movies, which all seem to be exactly the same. Charles 1998 fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Dec 2, 2022 |
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Dec 2, 2022 20:39
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Charles 1998 posted:I'd rate this show about equivalent to the first season of expanse.
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Dec 2, 2022 21:02
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Charles 1998 posted:I like both very much. But Foundation's first season kept on being far interesting. I remember being bored by Donnager battle in The Expanse, because it was yet another space battle where the ships just fly straight at each other going pew pew. I don't think there was any space battle like that in the first season of Foundation which felt refreshing for a sci fi space opera. That episode of the Expanse is the highest rated of the first season on IMDB though, so IDK. I guess people just can't get enough of drawn out space ship battles in tv and movies, which all seem to be exactly the same. If you think the space battles in the expanse are like all the other space battles in science fiction TV/Movies you need to get your brain checked. It's one of the few series that does it realistically with the actual physics correct.
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