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Previous Threads: 2022 2021 2020, 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016, 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2011, 2010, 2009, 2007-2008 Welcome to the Political Cartoons Thread! This is where we post, discuss, and mock political cartoons and the cartoonists that make them. We just survived the midterms of Joe Biden, which means time for the traditional pre-primary posturing! As always, edits and parodies are welcome in this den of hacks, shills, and has-beens, with weekends being a good opportunity to share any older cartoons you've dug up. Check out your local library for older archives and don't be afraid to share. So familiarize yourself with the thread rules, and then dive into D&D's worst thread for over 15 years! These are thread-specific posting rules in addition to the standard D&D rules. So ignore these at your own risk.
THESE ARE NOT HARD RULES These are more general guidelines that help keep the thread more pleasant to post in. Feel free to ignore them if you think it'll be particularly funny.
Q: This guy got paid for this? A: Maybe! Political Cartoonists are generally paid in two ways--as a staff position or on a per-cartoon basis by a syndicate. If a cartoonist is a staff cartoonist, they'll list their employer by their name. These cartoonists are paid a living wage and just about all of their cartoons are actually approved by an editor, printed, and seen by human beings. If a cartoonist is a member of a syndicate, they'll list their syndicate by their name, usually Cagle or U-Click. These syndicates act as a market for editors. We have no idea whether a particular cartoon posted by a syndicate is actually sold. Reportedly, they are sold for around $10 a cartoon, which is then split by the cartoonist and the syndicate. As you can imagine, this means a cartoonist can make very little or very much in syndication. As the internet has ingrained itself in our daily lives over the past 20 years, some cartoonists have found success with crowdfunding such as Patreon or Kickstarter. Even in the far-flung future of 2023, this is still fairly rare, and it remains to be see if it will save the dying art form as newspaper continue to whittle down their features to appease shareholders. Some sites, such as the Nib and Counterpoint, are relatively new strain of "pseudo-syndicate" that get out work while remaining creator owned and driven. Q: How obscure is this guy? Is anyone ever actually going to see this? A: It depends. Most posted in here are either regularly published by papers and magazines, ensuring a decently wise audience, or they are popular on social media sites such as Facebook or Twitter. You can expect old-school newspaper comics to trend towards more centrists ideals (or aggressive dogwhistles or other shibboleths for their actual lovely opinions) whereas artists of all political stripes will tend to go in less mainstream trajectories, especially given that they trend younger than their "professional" contemporaries. Q: Is everyone posted here an evil, stupid, conservative rear end in a top hat? A: Conservatives, and the right in general, tend to get more traffic as they tend to post more objectionable stuff. Liberals are, well, liberal and tend to post very fluffy stuff that isn't outright objectionable but also isn't substantive and thus prone to less chatter unless they have a particularly bad take. Still, we run the whole gamut, from right-wing fascists to bitter communist curmudgeons, and all the cowardly centrists in-between. So don't let the political leaning stop you from posting anything, although the thread does tend to get annoyed when too much overt bigotry gets posted. Q: Did this cartoonist get a Pulitzer for one cartoon or what? A: Pulitzers many decades ago were given out for a particular cartoon or two, but as time goes on it seems to have shifted to the artist's work for the year. So while we make mock someone like Ramirez for obvious "Pulitzer Bait", technically all of his cartoons are judged for the award. Yeah...we don't hold the Pulitzer in high regard. It is worth noting that other awards exist, such as the Herblock Prize or the Thurston Bronze Quill Award. Q: Is this just for American/Canadian cartoonists, or...? A: We allow cartoons of all stripes, and we adore stuff from foreign cartoonists as a break from the usual suspects. There is a thread for UK cartoons, but we've felt that there haven't been enough UK cartoons posted in this thread and would encourage people to start posting them in here again. However it would be nice, if you have the time, to explain some of the stuff that harder to decipher. Q: What about funny page cartoons? Webcomics? A: A cartoon with regular political content, such as Doonesbury or Prickly City, can be posted here no problem. Your Garfield and Family Circus stuff should go to the Comic Strip Megathread in BSS, although feel free to share the rare individual strips that are political in nature. This includes apolitical comics done by political cartoonists, unless it's relevant to the thread like a particular Dustin. Webcomics follow the same procedure: it's fair game if there's overt contemporary political themes, otherwise take it elsewhere. Remember that Day by Day, a political webcomic, is banned from this thread. Take it to the Bad Webcomic Thread or whatever place allows such garbage. Q: Can I share this crazy email from my mom? How about this image macro I saw on Facebook? A: This thread is strictly for political cartoons. There are usually dedicated threads for crazy emails, social media posts, or Freep-watching. Memes are not political cartoons, so keep that Minion image macro your great aunt posted to yourself...unless Glenn McCoy drew it. Q: Can I see more from X? A: We'd really like to see more people consistently posting the same cartoonist(s) so they don't get missed. If you want to step up to the plate for a particular person, then by all means. You can post them as they come, or do weekly dumps if that's easier on you. Q: What happened to the cartoonist index? A: The index was an artifact from when old poster XyloJW made the thread, and I kept it updated for the sake of new people. However, the list took a decent chunk of time to update each year, and very few people used it so it didn't solve the problem of people asking the same questions about cartoonists. Xander77 made a few profiles about the more infamous cartoonists posted here, in case you need a primer: Payne: http://imgur.com/gallery/C2ysj Garrison: http://imgur.com/gallery/ZdFwM Tinsley: http://imgur.com/gallery/hFGWV Gorrell: http://imgur.com/gallery/rnrPT Ramirez: http://imgur.com/gallery/QrEjj Rall: http://imgur.com/gallery/xDjKV Q: Hey, this cartoon isn't political! A: While "the personal is political" is an overused catchphrase to defend seemingly apolitical cartoons, what is and isn't political can get a bit fuzzy. This can be exacerbated if Death of the Author is considered, and whether or not the creator even intended to make a political statement. Just remember that issues such as LGBT rights, racial justice, and especially topics of class struggle are political even if they don't mention a politician or current event. If got a real bee in your bonnet about it then report the offending post to a mod. Q: This thread sucks and I want a better one! A: CSPAM has a thread, for those who are in the mood for a The thread has developed a few inside jokes and terms. Some of these are woefully out of date, but preserved just in case: AGC: Shorthand for "A Good Cartoon." Basically, you intentionally interpret a comic with a fairly obvious bad message as having a good message. The original point of this was to poke fun at some of the really poor metaphors that some cartoonists were crafting, but the concept of AGC has been run into the ground. If you want to see some quality ones, Saint Sputnik has a blog dedicated to these. Benghazi: While I think everyone is familiar with the Benghazi attacks, newer users might be unaware that one of the victims was Sean "vilerat" Smith, who was a long-time member and moderator of D&D. Seeing cartoonists use the death of a sincerely missed member of the community as a desperate attempt to smear Obama has made Benghazi a rather sore issue for everyone in this thread. Can't Handle: The thread is known for getting into spats over ridiculous subjects. However, this phrase was used waaaaay too much, and you're not being witty by yelling "Can't Handle!" when people arguing over actual political stuff as opposed to goofy poo poo like weathervanes. Yes, we have actually argued over weathervanes. DASGC: Stands for "Dumb and so Goddamn Crazy." A cartoon that portrays the opposing side as screaming, ignorant children, and their own side as patient, knowledgeable adults. Based on a Shmorky cartoon. Don't Be Willfully Dense: A line from cartoonist Eric Allie when someone pointed out how stupid his cartoon was. Has become a thread motto of sorts to not be an idiot when interpreting the message of any given cartoon. Gerald: A name given to a stock character used in many conservative cartoons. Typically a standard middle-aged white guy with glasses and little hair. Exists only to wryly point out how bad and dumb the strawman of the day is. It's a Powerful Symbol: Phrase made popular during the short-lived Kelly commentaries. When describing the crying Statue of Liberty, Kelly said "it's a powerful symbol...you don't want to overuse it" when of course the joke is that Liberty is in nearly every Kelly cartoon. Used sarcastically for overused symbolism, especially Liberty but can be anything such as bald eagles or uncle sam. Nonsense...This Is An Election Year: This phrase comes from a cartoon that was the subject of an Onion article mocking nonsensical political cartoons. Sometimes a person may post this phrase in response to a political cartoon, and that's basically a way of saying "this makes no loving sense." Pants Donkey: The nickname for a donkey from an old Mike Luckovich cartoon, and is essentially the mascot of the thread at this point. We have no idea why. PBF: The Perry Bible Fellowship was a webcomic that people frequently over-analyzed, so much to the point that to "PBF" something is to dig way deeper than you were supposed to for a cartoon's meaning. Skull Donkey: Several cartoonists, including Lisa Benson and Jerry Holbert, draw donkeys in such a way that it's easy to edit their snouts into cartoonish skulls. The golden age of skull edits is long over, but it's still a fun game. An example: becomes Please put some thought into skull donkey edits! Wormbama: It was common for Michael Ramirez to draw former President Obama with a weird squished face that resembled a worm. The thread game up with this nickname for the phenomenon. You Gotta Give Me the Fangs: Another joke from the brief Kelly video series, it references Kelly begging his editor to keep fangs on a Chinese person. Used to describe when a cartoonist is being especially racist with their caricature. Zionism: Okay, not really unique to this thread, but enough people have asked about it to merit being in here. Zionism, in a very simple definition, is just far-right nationalism for Israel. However, if you are hearing Zionism used in the same context as the Rothschilds or the Illuminati or basically any Dees cartoon, then you're just dealing with antisemitic conspiracy stuff. $CUM PASS: A cartoonist drew a sign intended to read SCUM PASS, but they decided to use a differently colored $ symbol for the S. The end result was something that read CUM PASS and made the thread lose its collective mind. Hentai: The Hent is too drat Hai Touching the Poop: Communicating with a cartoonist outside of SA. Usually as a bit to get arise out of them, but can include sincere interactions. This is looked down upon, as it can draw legal action upon the site (even if frivolous, lawsuits take time and money to deal with!), some cartoonists are riddled with mental illness that we don't need to provoke, and honestly it's just very weird behavior to begin with. Some edits, parodies, and cartoons become quite memorable and frequently requested. Please check out the Politoon Archive first before asking for stuff in the thread. I'll try to remember to use the OP to collect memorable stuff from this year, and then archive it at the end of the year. Sometimes stuff that starts here gets collected on its own site. Note that several of these sites have stopped updating, but the archives are always fun for a spin. A Good Cartoon: Saint Sputnik collects the best AGCs here. Ye Fowl Herald: You know that old medieval tapestry maker thing that was popular on the internet several years ago? Well, Saint Sputnik is using it to recreate Mallard Fillmore strips. Iran Will Have Nukes Any Day Now: Pants Donkey has collected cartoons that predict the imminent threat of a nuclear Iran. Some of these cartoons are over a decade old. If Global Warming Is Real, Then Why Is It Cold: A depressing collection of cartoons that display people's complete lack of climate education. Political PBF: Some unknown genius took old PBF strips and turning them into political cartoons. It's a lot better than it sounds. The Kellies The Kellies are our annual awards for the worst cartoons of the year (and the best edits or parodies). If you see a cartoon you want to nominate, quote it and include "Kellies Nomination:” and the category you want to nominate it for, so the organizers of the contest have an easy way to track nominations. The current categories are:
Around the end of the year, the Kellies thread will be created, where we'll collect the various nominations and also take nominations for Worst Overall Political Cartoon 2023. I'd like more information about the political cartoons I'm reading! Check out Wiki Sours, the companion wiki to the Politoons thread! Pants Donkey fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Dec 31, 2023 |
# ¿ Jan 2, 2023 20:41 |
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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 08:08 |
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Everything must come to an end. Here is a list of cartoonists that are no longer producing cartoons and the reason why. Chuck Asay - Old Moral Majority type that had a really pleasant art style behind the ugly opinions. Basically the thread's racist uncle. Retired Don Asmussen: Creator of "Bad Reporter" which was a selection of parody headlines. Used to draw the feature, but eventually turned them into a series of photoshop. Still managed to remain sharply funny, and was a thread favorite until his sudden passing from cancer in 2021. John Backderf - Thread regular that eventually quit. Joel Barbee - Thread regular way back in the day. Split his last name into two lines, prompting the BAR BEE meme. Died. Barry - Drew very weird cartoons that were like a John K fan that didn't quite understand how art worked. Had a weird gopher mascot in most threads. Vanished in the mid 10s. Erin Bonsteel – Young (well ten years ago) woman that portrayed Obama with a gremlin face. Quit; sometimes does vaguely political art but not enough to warrant posting Matt Bors: Leftist cartoonist and creator of the Nib, an online site dedicated to publishing left-leaning political cartoons/essays that tended to skew younger or at least those with less access to mainstream publishing. Did the "We Should Improve Society" cartoon that became a meme sensation. Retired from political cartooning 2021 to focus on journalism, nonfiction cartoons, and running the Nib, which itself went defunct in 2023. Pat Cross: Very Catholic cartoonist that put out cartoons for various conservative outlets. Was vehemently anti-LGBT and more outspoken about it than most of his ilk. Left cartooning to enter the priesthood in August 2022. Dale – Output slowed to a trickle. No new cartoons in 2016 Dees: Bigoted conspiracy theorist that didn't so much draw as made horrifying photoshop abominations. Should have gone into a career as an artist for metal albums, but instead bought into pretty much every conspiracy out there. As stated, he was a huge bigot; racist, homophobic, transphobic (going beyond Michelle Obama and accused multiple supermodels of being secretly trans), and of course he was just a massive anti-Semite that blamed Jews for everything. Sean Delonas: Drew cartoons so hateful and ugly it'd make a British cartoonist blush. Enjoyed drawing his political enemies, especially women, as being so-fat-they-were-spherical despite being a husky dude himself. Was published by the infamous New York Post, during which he drew heat for likening Obama to a chimp in 2009. Around 2013 he was bought out of his contract, but he kept drawing political nightmares until early 2021, when he stopped to focus on Children's books of all things. Brian Fairrington – Cartoonist that seemed very mercenary due to publishing cartoons with contradictory opinions. Vanished; archives deleted from Cagle Glenn Foden (7Oden) - Died in 2016 Tommy Grooms – Of “Ralph and Chuck” infamy. Shifted to Apolitical “Jokes” Jerry Holbert: Developed frontotemporal dementia in 2019 and slowly became unable to produce cartoons. Gave us skull donkeys and got in trouble for that strip with a guy offering Obama watermelon toothpaste. Died of his aforementioned illness in August 2022. Tim Kreider - Drew cartoons with humorous, detailed art. Quit for mental health reasons as a result of the Bush W. years. Righto, what's his name then? - Racist Australian with a particular hatred of the native Australians. Died in March 2017 of a heart attack. His son has taken up the job of being a piece of poo poo. JJ McCullough – Very Canadian. Gay conservative that tended to be more interested in polite politics and formalities. Drew very cute cartoons with varying opinions because...gay Canadian conservative. Has turned to column writing and a YouTube channel that actually has a few interesting videos. Glenn McMcoy: Aggressively conservative and culture war type. Drew Obama in a rainbow tie for years after the former president came out in support for gay marriage. Retired from political cartooning in 2018. Did make a few political cartoons in 2020, but is largely working on apolitical art/cartooning. Mike “Hapajap” Miller – Drew "Electric Tigers", aka the cartoon featuring Obama being murdered by one of the characters, the stupid Yu-Gi-Oh evolution cartoon, and falling for pyramid schemes. Stopped drawing when it threatened his career drawing comic books. Pat Oliphant – Long-running liberal cartoonist. Had a nice art style, but definitely went ten degrees to the right when it came to things like race. Retired. R.P. Overmyer - Drew "Hollywood Dog" a very weird collection of political cartoons featuring the titular pink canine with sunglasses. If Asay was the thread's racist uncle, then Overmyer was the weird hippie uncle who had agreeable opinions but came with off-putting vibes due to being overtly horny all the time. Like, in a "drew nipples on clothed women" sort of tipping your hand. Died in 2010. Jeff Parker - Liberal cartoonist that retired from political cartooning in 2013. Works on the strip Dustin for some inexplicable reason, so he still shows up from time to time. Zack Rawsthorne – Author of “Diversity Lane.” JRRose!: aka John R. Rose. Did political cartoons for Ogden that were I guess best described as "gentle" conservativism, where everyone had smiles and Obama was more a foolish goof than SOCIALIST MENANCE and dad puns were abound. So he sucked, but in a charming way that made him probably one of the least hated of the right-wing cartoonists. Abruptly stopped publishing cartoons a few years back, although he still does the art for the century-old zombie newspaper strip Barney Google. Bruce Tinsley: While Mallard Fillmore is still ongoing, the strip went into reruns in the second half of 2019, and Tinsley was quietly replaced by Loren Fishman on art dutiesin 2020. Tinsley caught tremendous flak for a racist cartoon he drew in August 2019, however it seems the actual reason for the absence seems to be his personal health. Even today, it's unknown what, if any, input Tinsley has on Mallard Fillmore today. His twitter account is suspended, and nobody else has reported on the artist switch because that would require caring about Mallard Fillmore. Tom Toles: Self-described “long-haired liberal” who was one of the old guard that had a career spanning 50 years before retiring in 2020. Had a long-running hatred of the DC Metro, which frequently appeared in his cartoons. Pants Donkey fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Jan 1, 2024 |
# ¿ Jan 2, 2023 20:41 |
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Start your year off badly with BenBen Garrison posted:‘DO NOT RUN-WE ARE YOUR FRIENDS’
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# ¿ Jan 2, 2023 21:32 |
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Collins uses more panels and is one of the few consistently good cartoonists in the thread.
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# ¿ Jan 2, 2023 21:40 |
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So glad Allie is posting about national politics again.
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# ¿ Jan 3, 2023 15:49 |
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Even now there’s overt Satanic Panic. A few years back they were talking about how the drag queens looked demonic.
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# ¿ Jan 3, 2023 18:11 |
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Budzilla posted:I have avoided reading the cartoon thread for months now. I feel marginally better for it. Happy new thread!
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# ¿ Jan 4, 2023 03:38 |
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Reminder that Peterson got hooked on Benzos and, instead of personal responsibility, he traveled outside the country to be medically induced into a coma to get through the withdrawals.
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# ¿ Jan 6, 2023 15:45 |
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rodbeard posted:You have to mention he was self-medicating with benzos because he was having panic attacks after cheating on his all meat diet by having a glass of apple cider.
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# ¿ Jan 6, 2023 16:52 |
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Everett True pops back up in this thread every few years. Maybe the annual awards should haves been called the Outbursties.
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# ¿ Jan 7, 2023 05:30 |
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The Devil, known for only wanting a single soul.
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# ¿ Jan 8, 2023 07:13 |
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I get the reference; it still implies the devil is just cool to have one soul and wouldn’t want to make another deal to get someone else’s soul. It’s a bad cartoon.
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# ¿ Jan 8, 2023 19:21 |
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I like how he delayed killing her off a week to establish that these two are friends, a thing he could have done at any point during the year, but decided it was more important to suck Elon’s musky dick for the 30th time. For the life of me, I cannot understand why he insists on making this a recurring thing. He forgets to post it for months at a time, and then rushes it towards a pointless conclusion that has little bearing on anything. This year, he forget to even introduce the new baby year until late January, and then she fell off for like half a year. He clearly prefers to make yet another Pervert League of Doom joke than a focused narrative, so why keep doing it?
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# ¿ Jan 9, 2023 00:44 |
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Ben is going to make a comic sympathetic to Bolsonarno’s personal coup attempt, isn’t he?
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# ¿ Jan 9, 2023 19:12 |
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Also, I’ll say it: Churchill should not be the standard we hold our leaders to. And that’s not because I consider Churchill an unrealistically high standard.
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# ¿ Jan 11, 2023 18:57 |
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The stove thing is exactly like the light bulbs, where people think the government is going to burst into your home and confiscate your appliances, as opposed to a long phase-out program to give people time to transition. How long? The incandescent debate reached a peak around 2012. The ban doesn’t go into effect until this August.
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# ¿ Jan 12, 2023 17:47 |
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Warm food is for cowards. Aw, widdle babies afwaid of some sawmonewwa? My intestines are an apartment for roundworms, and I’ve never felt better.
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# ¿ Jan 12, 2023 18:40 |
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I predicted this last year, but given she has no other existing people to snatch her, this will be the year Ishida has 2023 raised as a boy and we get some truly transphobic poo poo as 2023 is convinced to detransition just in time to die. Or Monica or whatever her name is gets the baby and that triggers maternal instincts and we get her half-assed journey into becoming a Catholic wife. Catholic for the extra lack of self-awareness.
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# ¿ Jan 12, 2023 21:41 |
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Oh poo poo I forgot what weekend it was! So ready to be learn about one specific thing Martin Luther King Jr said and nothing else
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# ¿ Jan 15, 2023 05:36 |
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I do not understand why people care this much about the royal family’s internal spats. Especially Americans.
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# ¿ Jan 16, 2023 19:20 |
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It is always incredibly depressing how many of these could have been printed in 2020 without anyone batting an eye. poo poo, a lot of them can keep MLK in
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# ¿ Jan 17, 2023 05:01 |
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Cowcaster posted:is garrison making GBS threads out cartoons at a furious pace at the moment or has it just been a bit since we checked on him so there was a lot of backlog to get through
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# ¿ Jan 17, 2023 18:03 |
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ZeeToo posted:Dollars to donuts it's "Michell Obama", who definitely is a man according to this racist moron, and is going to run for President so that Barack Obama can sneak back into the White House more officially.
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# ¿ Jan 18, 2023 03:40 |
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“Hypocrisy is political kryptonite” lol Republicans will argue both sides of something mere weeks apart and nobody will give a poo poo. Democrats aren’t much better, but they don’t have a spin apparatus designed to hammer in lies as fact.
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# ¿ Jan 18, 2023 16:06 |
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Obama should just use the same “I declassified them with the power of thought.” excuse and see how wild the justifications go from there.
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# ¿ Jan 19, 2023 05:28 |
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Vib Rib posted:Holy gently caress, tenfold??
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# ¿ Jan 19, 2023 20:34 |
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I can analyze all the ingredients for my bagel and make my own informed decisions, thank you. Oh and requiring nutrition labels is also socialism.
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# ¿ Jan 20, 2023 16:30 |
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Microplastics posted:I smell a Kelly “B-but our good ol’ cricket burgers!” -Hungry Consumers “Enjoy your healthy mealworm cereal*, hehe.” -Tyrannical Health Nuts *Latest Fad “Barf-thropods.” -Korner Kelly
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# ¿ Jan 20, 2023 19:31 |
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I guess he finally ran out of words to rhyme with Riddler and will be giving us ten comics with forced puns on band names.
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# ¿ Jan 22, 2023 18:42 |
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Yeah, see the wording is a bit vague, but it’s not a club for extreme abortions but rather an extreme club for abortions.
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# ¿ Jan 22, 2023 19:23 |
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A Local 58 Cartoon
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# ¿ Jan 23, 2023 14:01 |
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Fister Roboto posted:I wonder how much barista spit Fishman drinks daily.
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# ¿ Jan 23, 2023 18:34 |
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I’m still hung up on the fact that Rall thinks countries like the UK or France are fine? As only the US is incapable of revolution so the lack of any such upheaval in those countries means there’s no problems at all.
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# ¿ Jan 25, 2023 13:30 |
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Charlz Guybon posted:Lack of upheavel? Aren't millions in France rioting? I don’t fundamentally disagree with Rall that countries have had their citizenry duped into failing to understanding their collective power, but it’s hardly unique to the USA. I guess I’ll eat my words if we see France overthrow the current government and install a socialist/communism/anarchist system. Or have countries like the UK discovered ethical capitalism and have no problems with wealth disparity?
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# ¿ Jan 25, 2023 15:10 |
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So it turns out the Y story was a lie, as the trans woman in question had bottom surgery like seven years ago.
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# ¿ Jan 26, 2023 20:04 |
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Vib Rib posted:Those anti-union "thug" comics could have been made a hundred loving years ago without any changes.
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# ¿ Jan 27, 2023 07:10 |
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Microplastics posted:Sometimes I like to imagine the look on readers' faces after they open the funny pages and read a Sinfest comic that the newspaper just plucked from random from the last few weeks and decided to print
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# ¿ Jan 29, 2023 19:59 |
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Vib Rib posted:The only harm vaccines actually have is people being scared of them?
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# ¿ Jan 31, 2023 00:59 |
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Sinfest sticks around because the frequency of the updates makes it a documented, real-time look at the terf to fascist pipeline. Now that Ishida is dipping his toes in the antisemitism pool, interest is already waning. I mean the dog whistles will be a klaxon by this summer.
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# ¿ Jan 31, 2023 02:30 |
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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 08:08 |
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I think it’s about the libs being happy a mass shooting happened because it will force us to finally ban guns forever. Basically whining about “politicizing” tragedies aka doing anything besides empty gestures of sympathy. The fact that it’s a meteor, muddies the metaphor and kinda tells on Fishman that he either doesn’t think things through or sees shootings as an inevitable force of natures.
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# ¿ Jan 31, 2023 20:20 |