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So there's what, like seven or eight staff writers on the project now? Why is this a good thing? I'm worried that this might affect the cohesion of the whole. Too many cooks, etc. I mean, I'm still stoked for this game and waiting in anticipation, but I liked that Project: Eternity's stretch goals were tangible new additions to the game. More classes, a new dungeon, more content. I don't consider more writers automatically a great thing and it can potentially lead to a lack of unity that Planescape: Torment didn't suffer from at all.
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Mar 22, 2013 02:17
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Doran Blackdawn posted:So there's what, like seven or eight staff writers on the project now? Isn't that about how many writers worked on Planescape: Torment?
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Mar 22, 2013 02:27
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There are 5 writers as stretch goals, Colin McComb as head writer, Monte Cook is mentioned but I'm not sure if he's doing any writing, Ray Vallese is a full-time dedicated editor, Kevin Saunders is project director. I don't see any other names mentioned as anything that would be related to writing, so it looks like a writing staff of 7 with an editor and a project director. There might have been some writers to start with though, not sure.
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Mar 22, 2013 02:29
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Great Rumbler posted:Isn't that about how many writers worked on Planescape: Torment? I think like New Vegas, Torment was written from end to end by one person, but game designers tended to fill in the small stuff. Unless I'm mistaken.
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Mar 22, 2013 02:31
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Patrick will probably be writing together with a level designer who does the actual design stuff, so he can focus on writing dialog. We've done similar things with Wasteland. Seven or eight writers is by no means a lot for a game of this scope, and several of them will not be able to write full-time (Brian, George, Pat) which should provide additional context to the number. We also work with a strong editorial oversight from core team people (Colin, Adam, Ray) and design is often reviewed and revised to fit the tone. quote:I liked that Project: Eternity's stretch goals were tangible new additions to the game.
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Mar 22, 2013 02:34
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Lord Lambeth posted:I think like New Vegas, Torment was written from end to end by one person, but game designers tended to fill in the small stuff. Unless I'm mistaken. I'm not exactly an expert on that sort of thing, but it certainly did seem like Planescape: Torment did have a good number of people involved in some level with the writing. Like you said, though, Chris Avellone probably was responsible for the bulk of the work, with others contributing things along the way to flesh it all out. Which is basically what's happening with Rothfuss [and probably the other stretch goal writers]. Consider this: quote:“How much writing are we talking about here?” I ask. Compared to this: quote:[Planescape: Torment]'s script contains around 800,000 words I mean, we're talking about a tiny sliver of what amounted to Planescape: Torment's total script, like maybe an entire companion or a few small sidequests with some NPCs. Patrick Rothfuss isn't writing the entire game. He's not being given full rein to guide the writing team. He's contributing a small bit of work that will be edited and then incorporated into the much larger whole. So, don't freak out! That's just how it seems to me anyway, I don't have any opinion on the guy either way, so his inclusion has no real impact on me.
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Mar 22, 2013 02:40
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Brother None posted:Doesn't almost every stretch goal for Torment cite a tangible new addition to the game? New locations, new cults, expanded endings, expanded tides, new companions, etc. etc. I actually agree with the previous poster. P:E definitely felt more tangible. The Stronghold was something that we knew what it was and what it would entail. The things you guys are adding just seem less real. Especially when it's XXX% longer...that doesn't really mean much.
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Mar 22, 2013 02:44
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 Hopefully Rothfuss brings more fans tomorrow too, but today there was a pretty decent sized jump in funding.
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Mar 22, 2013 02:53
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Lord Lambeth posted:I think like New Vegas, Torment was written from end to end by one person, but game designers tended to fill in the small stuff. Unless I'm mistaken. That's the impression I had too. Brother None posted:Patrick will probably be writing together with a level designer who does the actual design stuff, so he can focus on writing dialog. We've done similar things with Wasteland. Fair enough. In terms of the game's scope, are you expecting something along the same lines as P:T or something longer? If longer, then it does make more sense to hire on more help. I guess I'm mostly unsure how writing duties in a project like this get delegated (which is totally okay because you don't need to give us a report on how you handle things in-house). It just seems that adding more writers doesn't appear as immediately tangible as "New Area" or "New Companion." quote:Doesn't almost every stretch goal for Torment cite a tangible new addition to the game? New locations, new cults, expanded endings, expanded tides, new companions, etc. etc. Yep, fair point. After you posted this I went back to the kickstarter and you're totally right. I guess it just seems that the focus of the stretch goals are the new writer as opposed to the content. EDIT - I just remember seeing the Eternity dungeon hitting 15 levels, getting a Stronghold, getting Paladins, Chanters and that special party inn-thing and thinking that was awesome as hell, and they all blew Zeits out of the water, frankly. I'm excited for a game, at the end of the day, not for a new writer contributing to said game, if that makes sense. To rephrase: I like content updates being more important than staff updates. Having said all that, I still have high hopes for this and don't regret throwing you guys my cash for a second. ceaselessfuture fucked around with this message at 03:00 on Mar 22, 2013 |
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Mar 22, 2013 02:53
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Hey, could we get Steve Erikson to give the whole script a once over at 3.5 mil? Based in the books I bet he'd throw in another quarter million words gratis.
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Mar 22, 2013 03:05
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Then we could get Brian Sanderson for the sequel, using the aged and yellowed notes of Chris Avellone.
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Mar 22, 2013 03:11
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NmareBfly posted:Hey, could we get Steve Erikson to give the whole script a once over at 3.5 mil? I really enjoyed the Malazan series.  If we're just listing authors now, Steven Brust would probably provide some pretty great dialog / storylines. VVVVV NmareBfly posted:I tried asking Obsidian if any of them had read Malazan a few times, but no one ever said anything one way or another.  That's too bad, because they've totally missed out if they haven't. Numenera, when I first read a bit about it, immediately brought to mind Malazan, except with  .
Drifter fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Mar 22, 2013 |
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Mar 22, 2013 03:34
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You may be reading sarcasm where there was none.  I tried asking Obsidian if any of them had read Malazan a few times, but no one ever said anything one way or another. 
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Mar 22, 2013 03:43
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NmareBfly posted:Hey, could we get Steve Erikson to give the whole script a once over at 3.5 mil? If they set the next Torment game after this one in the Malazan universe, they would have all my money.
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Mar 22, 2013 03:46
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Drifter posted:Steven Brust would probably provide some pretty great dialog / storylines.
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Mar 22, 2013 03:46
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I think Rope Kid would need to confirm for sure, but I'm fairly certain Chris didn't do all of Planescape, but he did a vast majority and it nearly killed him, I think he said in an interview once. To what degree that's an exaggeration only Chris knows, but I do know a developer who worked himself into a nervous breakdown once, so.
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Mar 22, 2013 04:57
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GetWellGamers posted:I think Rope Kid would need to confirm for sure, but I'm fairly certain Chris didn't do all of Planescape, but he did a vast majority and it nearly killed him, I think he said in an interview once. It's a bit of an exaggeration but he did actually get advice from his doctor that continuing his lifestyle and work scope was going to kill him, I believe. As for how much did he write, it's been estimated at about half, yeah (by Colin, see here). I don't think Colin will write a similar amount here, heh, it's fairly suicidal. But otherwise the system does work kind of the same; the lead writer pens the game's entire outline and key characters, and other writers work from a lot of his notes and build out from there, and they're all in constant discussion, plus we have a professional editor in for this work.
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Mar 22, 2013 05:18
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Lord Lambeth posted:I think like New Vegas, Torment was written from end to end by one person, but game designers tended to fill in the small stuff. Unless I'm mistaken. I don't say that to diminish John's role -- in fact, I think he's often tragically overlooked as the architect of F:NV's story and author of its most central characters -- but the rest of the designers did an enormous amount of writing on the project.
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Mar 22, 2013 06:22
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I can't believe this thread is calling out Rothfuss for being flawed, and at the same time has people mentioning Erikson despite him being the very embodiment of quantity over quality.
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Mar 22, 2013 06:28
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The other writers that were suggested aren't any better, but Rothfuss actually worries me a bit (of all the writers involved). I don't think characters are his strong point either, but maybe he'll get assigned to write a white knight sidekick character that the PC can repeatedly get killed in amusing ways. (I probably wouldn't be happy unless they got someone like Gene Wolfe writing, however so I'm normally picky...) And maybe faerie sex fits better into an crpg...
Noricae fucked around with this message at 06:35 on Mar 22, 2013 |
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Mar 22, 2013 06:32
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rope kid posted:New Vegas was absolutely not written by one person. John Gonzalez wrote the main plot and many of the most central characters (Benny, Caesar, Mr. House, etc.), but the majority of characters were written by designers other than him. Of the major characters, he didn't write any of the companions and he didn't write most of the faction leaders like McNamara, Hardin, Pearl, Loyal, Marjorie, Papa Khan, Hsu, The King, etc.
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Mar 22, 2013 06:36
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I guess I don't know much about SciFi/Fantasy writers. Most of my stock came from what I read in my younger days. I've heard quite a few cases where professional writers experienced hard time to adjust themselves to game-writing. Also, I wonder how chemistry works by putting individuals who don't have experience in working as a team in a box, even if they are talented. That said, I'm quite happy with what I've gathered so far.
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Mar 22, 2013 06:55
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rope kid posted:New Vegas was absolutely not written by one person. John Gonzalez wrote the main plot and many of the most central characters (Benny, Caesar, Mr. House, etc.), but the majority of characters were written by designers other than him. Of the major characters, he didn't write any of the companions and he didn't write most of the faction leaders like McNamara, Hardin, Pearl, Loyal, Marjorie, Papa Khan, Hsu, The King, etc. That's what I meant, I just phrased it poorly. I phrased it terribly really.
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Mar 22, 2013 07:17
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I have heard that Rothfuss's books are really fun, so I am looking forward to him being involved in this game so that parts of the game will have a sense of fun.
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Mar 22, 2013 07:17
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Chairchucker posted:I have heard that Rothfuss's books are really fun, so I am looking forward to him being involved in this game so that parts of the game will have a sense of fun. Kvote's power creep is ridiculous. Blows Rand Al'Thor out of the water and drat near keeps pace with that godawful Richard Rahl. There are hints that the narrator is slightly embellishing things BUT (and this is a big but) these embellishments are all supposed to be faulty memory or personal bias and not him just flat out lying about the stuff he pulled. It would have been much better I think if there had been hints he's honestly confused or bought into his own legend or something. I can see a strong editor or another writer bringing him in line and producing something really good.
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Mar 22, 2013 09:35
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Doran Blackdawn posted:So there's what, like seven or eight staff writers on the project now? Long as you have one person with a clear creative vision and final veto of everything then I wouldn't think it would too much of an issue, particularly if you split the work so the writers are all working on discrete parts of the game rather than all writing the titular player character by committee. e: Chris Avellone as well? They seem to be trying to assemble quite the writing team for this game. I may have to up my pledge. Io_ fucked around with this message at 10:59 on Mar 22, 2013 |
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Mar 22, 2013 10:35
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$3.5 million = Chris Avellonequote:Our $3.5M Stretch Goal will add Chris Avellone to our team. You’ve probably heard of him, as he was the lead designer for Planescape™: Torment, the game that inspired us to create this project. Chris will be the first to say PS:T was a team effort, but he was its creative visionary and wrote the lion’s share of the game. He later cofounded Obsidian Entertainment, where he is the Creative Director. Chris was the lead designer for Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 2, and has contributed his design expertise to every project Obsidian has developed. He also worked with inXile on Wasteland 2 last year, including designing the area showcased in our gameplay first look video.
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Mar 22, 2013 10:56
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poo poo just got serious.
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Mar 22, 2013 10:59
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Brown Moses posted:$3.5 million = Chris Avellone Well-played, Mr. Fargo.
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Mar 22, 2013 11:01
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Welp! If I hadn't already pledged, they would surely get my money now. I should think this might be a very good day for the campaign.
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Mar 22, 2013 11:04
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BigFatFlyingBloke posted:Long as you have one person with a clear creative vision and final veto of everything then I wouldn't think it would too much of an issue, particularly if you split the work so the writers are all working on discrete parts of the game rather than all writing the titular player character by committee. There's a difference between a team with a vision and a committee that just wants mass appeal that people are losing sight of.
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Mar 22, 2013 11:05
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Holy moly this is shaping up to be the Avengers of writing for games.
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Mar 22, 2013 11:06
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Merry Magpie posted:Well-played, Mr. Fargo. Great avatar/post combo.
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Mar 22, 2013 11:09
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I'm most excited about the +25% gameplay increase over the 3.25m goal.
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Mar 22, 2013 11:11
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Yesss ... yessssss ... InXile ... make them daaaaance ... Seriously awesome news. I figured there was a chance he was going to end up being a stretch goal ... until I saw the video he made to support the Kickstarter. I figured that was his way of saying "no seriously I am not going to be involved BUT IT WILL BE GREAT" Or maybe it was, and they are serious when they say they thought it would not be possible to get him until the Kickstarter was underway. In any case, teehee! Wooo!
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Mar 22, 2013 11:12
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I would really love to up my pledge but I basically went as much in as I could from the start. That signed box is so tempting, but I couldn't live with myself if I dropped over half a grand on a game, that's practically a new computer by itself!
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Mar 22, 2013 11:45
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I'l already at the "Avellone tier" I had set for myself for some reason. Might have been his "thumbs-up" video.
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Mar 22, 2013 11:48
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Haha drat they are going to get all of the nerd money. I'm a little surprised they didn't hold out for the final week push with Avellone. I agree with the guys saying so long as we don't have too many egos fighting for creative control, and Colin McCombe is given strong creative/editorial control this should all be excellent. And you heard it from Rope Kid, big (and really good) rpgs typically draw on a lot of writers. Games are more readily compartmentalised as far as writing goes, the way subquests and characters are handled, unlike say, a novel. Really I think a lot of fans should be happy about way the extra writer stretch goals are shaping up after all the initial concerns about doing the writing justice.
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Mar 22, 2013 11:53
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I decided to pledge for this, I'm a big fan of Torment and if it makes it all the way to 3.5 and Chris Avellone joins in it has amazing potential. I really liked what Obsidian did with Alpha Protocol's conversation tree's and I'm hoping to see some of that influence here since Torment is supposed to be primarily a story device.
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Mar 22, 2013 11:58
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Page Downfall posted:Haha drat they are going to get all of the nerd money. It's because they have Gene Wolfe, Jack Vance and China Mieville at 4 mil.
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Mar 22, 2013 11:59
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