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FRINGE posted:Taking fighter until 7, then a SMALL bit of rogue, and then finishing with wizard is pretty fun. TNO gets a special bonus for whichever class first hits lv7, and whichever first hits lv12. I would make fighter the first to level 7, and then have mage be the first to lv 12.
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Apr 6, 2013 08:33
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Mozi posted:That's how my main characters are in RPGs anyways so it worked out well for me, but I hope the new game has more options in that regard. Yeah I just started again with all the mods as well. The opening conversation with Morte is completely different, which is weird. I'm heaps reluctant to take any actions which destroys any of the undead, because I want them all around for later.
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Apr 6, 2013 08:42
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Great Rumbler posted:But I'd really like to see them do a proper sequel to The Bard's Tale, full of turn-based and first-person goodness.
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Apr 6, 2013 08:44
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Drifter posted:I don't know why you would even think that. It's been categorically proven that people will buy poo poo if it goes up on Steam or Gog or Origin or wherever. It's been shown that when you get press, people will buy what the press write about. Let's say this game only has a market of 200,000 at full price (very low estimate but this is my whole point, also before anyone mentions Legend of Grimrock 600k sales do we know how much of that was humble bundles and sale prices? I'm very curious to know what that market looked like) about 100k of that will be backers or receive one of the 'extra' copies so that leaves them 100k at around $30. So we have three million they want to make another 4million game as a sequel. Time to go to kickstarter for another million. If they make say 8million they may decide their vision for the next game is 10million so they need to go to the well again. Also I'm not sure how inXile feels about advertising (I'm guessing they are sticking with low level word of mouth type things for now) but someday they may decide they want a few million for advertising. That alone could destroy any profits from their first few games. This is an expensive unpredictable business. I have no problem with them kickstarting their games for the foreseeable future. Edit: also I'd be curious to know what the sales expectations are at both Obsidian and inXile we live in a world where millions of sales equal 'didn't meet expectations' so I'd love to know what they have in the back of their minds. Obsidian (I think) already said something along the lines they consider it a success because they get to make a game with all the costs paid for upfront but they surely have some degree of wanting to hit a rough target. Double Edit: In case this has been lost in my rambling bit of text I do think these games will be a big hit for them. Just musing about the low ends of the spectrum and curiosity about the size/state of the market in general. vvv I know that by 'expectations' it is just them saying 'this amount is the random magic number I picked when I pitched this game to the bosses'. I'm curious as to what expectations these smaller more rational developers have. What does Obsidian and inXile consider a smash hit. Darkhold fucked around with this message at 09:50 on Apr 6, 2013 |
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Apr 6, 2013 08:58
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Darkhold posted:we live in a world where millions of sales equal 'didn't meet expectations'
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Apr 6, 2013 09:40
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Zore posted:The only point I was really trying to make was that the mental stats gave truckloads more options and unlocked more optional content than the physical stats did. If you leave your Con at 12 the entire game there is exactly one time you won't pass a Con check, and you can pass that with a strength check. If you neglect Cha, Int or Wis to that level you're going to be missing out on a lot more than that. Different character builds giving different game experiences is good. Physical stats make combat easier and make for a streamlined, combat focused game and mental stats give you depth and interesting things to read. Brilliant game design.
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Apr 6, 2013 10:09
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I disagree. My first playthrough of PST, I came into it like a Baldur's Gate game and went full str/con fighter. I found the game frustrating in parts, because as the game progressed, I could tell I was missing out on some important content. This was not balanced by rewarding high str/con characters with unique content. I'm fine with different character builds having different experiences, but I think PST had too much focus on rewarding high wis/int. The difficulty is making a str/con character's experience as interesting as a wis/int character. As great as PST was/is, it fails to do this.
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Apr 6, 2013 10:15
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Darkhold posted:Let's say this game only has a market of 200,000 at full price (very low estimate but this is my whole point, also before anyone mentions Legend of Grimrock 600k sales do we know how much of that was humble bundles and sale prices? . I'm sure those are significant reasons for LoG's sales numbers, but at the same time that game was a spiritual successor to games like Dungeon Master and Eye of the Beholder. I'm pretty sure the number of people nostalgic about those games is significantly smaller than the potential market for IE type games. Either way the whole point is that game like Wasteland 2 doesn't even need to sell that much. Also as you say there are probably about 100k people getting W2 through pledging money to W2, P:E or Torment KS. I refuse to believe that there isn't a larger number of people who weren't willing to pay for a game 1.5-2 years in advance, but who will buy it once it comes out.
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Apr 6, 2013 10:17
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Ratios and Tendency posted:Different character builds giving different game experiences is good. Physical stats make combat easier and make for a streamlined, combat focused game and mental stats give you depth and interesting things to read. Brilliant game design. Except that the combat, particularly as a melee-focused character without any of the cool spells, is complete poo poo in Torment, so it's more like "pick mental stats, play a game with a universally-acclaimed story and marginally tolerable combat" and "pick physical stats, play a game with a decent story and terrible, experience-ruining combat".
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Apr 6, 2013 10:18
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Zore posted:The combat in Planscape is unremittingly terrible. It manages to be worse than even the fairly clunky Baldur's Gate series, and they're both running on the atrocious D&D 2E chassis converted into a 'real-time with pause!' system which rewards micromanaging the gently caress out of everything and pausing the action every second or two. I can agree that Torment's combat is the worst among the IE games, but overall i think it is pretty decent and fun despite its flaws. Also physical attributes are actually really good in combat, apart from a few good spells like cloudkill, being a fighter with top Con and Str makes surviving combat a lot easier i think, especially in a place like the fortress of regrets where you as a single mage have to rely on luck to survive, i generally found mages and spellcasters to be of less use in combat.
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Apr 6, 2013 10:20
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Zilkin posted:I'm sure those are significant reasons for LoG's sales numbers, but at the same time that game was a spiritual successor to games like Dungeon Master and Eye of the Beholder. I'm pretty sure the number of people nostalgic about those games is significantly smaller than the potential market for IE type games. Either way the whole point is that game like Wasteland 2 doesn't even need to sell that much.
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Apr 6, 2013 10:30
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The most important factor is probably how good it will be, all the talent is there to make a great game, but that doesn't mean the final product will be on the same level as the original game, though so far everything I have seen looks really good. Project : Eternity probably has it a bit easier in that aspect..
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Apr 6, 2013 11:26
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This KS couldn't have come at the worst possible time. April is obscene for games, with Fire Emblem Awakening, Deadly Premonition Director's Cut, and the remake of Dragon's Dogma all coming out here in the UK. Regardless: "We wanted to let you know that we successfully completed a payment to inXile entertainment for $113.00 on Apr 5, 2013." I still really need to play PS:T thought. Owned it on physical and digital for years, just never got around to properly giving it a whack. :|
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Apr 6, 2013 11:48
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Zaii posted:This KS couldn't have come at the worst possible time. April is obscene for games, I could probably swing the $25 tier but the $65 tier is where I want to be. Either way it's going to be awhile before I can afford any type of new release. Good thing I have a huge Steam backlog to hack on a bit.
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Apr 6, 2013 11:56
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Darkhold posted:I'm pretty annoyed that Divinity Original Sin Kickstarter couldn't have come out a week later. My game budget money has been spent this month on this kickstarter and I don't get paid until the 1st. It was intended to as I understand it. One of the WRPG reporting websites accidentally announced it a week early so they started it straight away as opposed to waiting. Larian aren't what you'd call excellent at this sort of thing, but it's endearing.
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Apr 6, 2013 12:07
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Seconding everyone who is trying to help funnel the remaining RPG nerd money into Divinity: Original Sin (thread here, Kickstarter here). Yes, we are unpaid Larian shills, what of it?  Zore posted:Those were how many times your stats had to be above a certain threshold to trigger something in Torment. Wis had the most important checks, but Int and Cha were checked all the time. They unlocked a hell of a lot more content than someone who focused on the physical stats. My one playthrough of PS:T was with a warrior build, and it was still great. Holy poo poo, I really need to replay this game.
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Apr 6, 2013 12:19
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Oasx posted:I can agree that Torment's combat is the worst among the IE games, but overall i think it is pretty decent and fun despite its flaws. Also physical attributes are actually really good in combat, apart from a few good spells like cloudkill, being a fighter with top Con and Str makes surviving combat a lot easier i think, especially in a place like the fortress of regrets where you as a single mage have to rely on luck to survive, i generally found mages and spellcasters to be of less use in combat. On the other hand the high level magic had badass animations https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcGC2byVmoA
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Apr 6, 2013 12:44
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Does this look like a good character build for Planescape: Torment? STR = 9 INT = 15 DEX = 10 CHR = 13 CON = 10 WIS = 18? Satanos posted:It was intended to as I understand it. One of the WRPG reporting websites accidentally announced it a week early so they started it straight away as opposed to waiting. This is Larian's first time self-publishing, so it's natural that they're making little mistakes.
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Apr 6, 2013 13:26
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I started a new game of Planescape and boy did I cheat hard (Set stats to 17 Str/19 Con/15 Dex/15 Cha/18 Int and Wis, using NearInfinity to modify items so I could use them as if I was a Fighter/Mage/Thief, and making HEAVY use of the Fighter/Mage glitch, setting my Mage XP to match Dak'kon). And the game has been so much better for it. Would I recommend doing that for a first play through? Probably, abuse the poo poo out of the Fighter/Mage glitch and up your stats/xp at the very least... It makes the combat much more bareable. Plus it still lets you see the cool spell animations as a Fighter 
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Apr 6, 2013 13:31
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quote:RPS: As someone who is, by trade, a storyteller, does your soul yearn to do something similar [to the Walking Dead]? You know, I wouldn't mind Torment throwing out the combat and pretty much being a semi-open world reactive Walking Dead.
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Apr 6, 2013 13:33
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:Does this look like a good character build for Planescape: Torment? Planescape: Torment has a truly epic, insanely detailed guide on GameFaqs written by a RPG guide ubermensch DSimpson: http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/187975-planescape-torment/faqs/7964 He recommends this stat array and therefore you should use it: STR = 9 DEX = 11 CON = 9 INT = 15 WIS = 18 CHR = 13 Also, learn the proper D&D stat order, yeesh.
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Apr 6, 2013 13:36
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Focusing on Wis and Int is probably the best for your first run as you get to experience all the story and dialogue. Str and Con makes the combat fun, but that sort of build is best as a second play through..
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Apr 6, 2013 13:55
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Also, become a mage ASAP. Without spoiling too much, maybe you should pay a certain midwife in Ragpicker's Square a visit when you get there...
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Apr 6, 2013 14:50
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Are the improvements set in stone now, or will we get strongholds if they get a further 300K in PayPal donations?
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Apr 6, 2013 15:05
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Technically, I've already had most of the game spoiled for me already. (Seriously, read that, it's fantastic.)
Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Apr 6, 2013 |
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Apr 6, 2013 15:11
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Boz0r posted:Are the improvements set in stone now, or will we get strongholds if they get a further 300K in PayPal donations? I'd be happy if Brother None came in and told me different though.
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Apr 6, 2013 16:22
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Masonity posted:The stretch goals aren't because it'll cost another 250k to add a fortress base. It's as an incentive to get people to up their pledges and rope other people in to meet the goal and get the fortress or whatever it is. Note it's also just for what makes sense in our budget. Not that the goals will cost that much, but only at that goal can we be fully confident we can implement it without it affecting the budget/time we can spend on other parts of the game. That distinction is pretty important, I feel. Rinkles posted:Congratulations Brother None and everyone at Inxile. The final figure blew away my expectations. Thanks! Mine too. $400K in final day, $900K in final five, is much better than I expected. About 2/3rd of what PE did, but PE's was insane, it is on the high-end for Kickstarters of our sort overall. WL did $400K in final five, which was our minimum expectation, but we blew well past that. Jackard posted:I can't picture Bard's Tale without Tony Jay anymore.  Such a great talent, it's sad that he's passed.Y'know what I would dig: A Bard's Tale redone. Doing a real Bard's Tale IV would also be great, sure, but I think you could go back to the remake, turn it into another genre like an adventure game using existing VA and story, instead of the too simplified action-RPG it ended up being. Redoing it as a TB and trying to make it into a real Bard's Tale sequel prolly wouldn't work coz its tone is too divorced from it. Darkhold posted:Edit: also I'd be curious to know what the sales expectations are at both Obsidian and inXile we live in a world where millions of sales equal 'didn't meet expectations' so I'd love to know what they have in the back of their minds. Obsidian (I think) already said something along the lines they consider it a success because they get to make a game with all the costs paid for upfront but they surely have some degree of wanting to hit a rough target. It's too early to talk hard targets, but Brian had a really interesting interview at Forbes where he kinda spitballed 100K, 200K-ish numbers. 200,000 at full price would actually be bananas. There's no publisher taking a cut, only a distributor, so you're basically looking at 2/3rd-ish of the money going straight to you. That means that at like 100K sales at say $40 we're already well passed WL2's kickstarter (which ended up with about $2 million in "profit" after percentages and rewards, Torment's balance is better so its budget is actually significantly bigger). So yeah, no targets yet, but when Brian says 200K sales (at full or near-full price, not at heavy discounts) would be fantastic, he's not kidding. That'd be a smash hit. Darkhold posted:I'm pretty annoyed that Divinity Original Sin Kickstarter couldn't have come out a week later. My game budget money has been spent this month on this kickstarter and I don't get paid until the 1st. That was their plan. But then they improvised. It was a mistake, I think, but they're still doing ok, and hopefully we can give em some shout-outs to help boost their numbers. They're great guys. Darkhold posted:I'd doubt it unless they get it in the next week or so. They'll have allocated their time/design teams before too long and trying to shoehorn that in past a certain point would take away from what they were building. Yeah, right now it's basically off the table. It'd take too much out of the rest of the game. Lot of people really do want it, which we are taking on board, but you can't do what your budget doesn't allow. We've got a bit of flexibility, but there's just no way to guarantee or even vaguely promise it now; the plan is to not do it, and then maybe we will if things change (high pre-order numbers, high WL2 sales, whatever). Brother None fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Apr 6, 2013 |
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Apr 6, 2013 19:06
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Brother None posted:Yeah, right now it's basically off the table. It'd take too much out of the rest of the game. Lot of people really do want it, which we are taking on board, but you can't do what your budget doesn't allow. We've got a bit of flexibility, but there's just no way to guarantee or even vaguely promise it now; the plan is to not do it, and then maybe we will if things change (high pre-order numbers, high WL2 sales, whatever).  Thank you for answering my questions. Having someone from inXile in the threads is really enjoyable for me.
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Apr 6, 2013 19:11
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Megazver posted:[RPG guide ubermensch DSimpson] recommends this stat array and therefore you should use it: DSimpson has a tendency of getting distracted by the obviously good build and missing the optimal one. In this case, he's missing a big chunk of xp at the start of the game that wants 16 int for the sake of a 5% xp bonus (or 3% if you go with 17 wis) on low-level xp rewards. (btw if someone finds me a level up chart please pass it on). You could, indeed, nuke wis into the stratosphere the moment you get the chance, but you'd have a lot of wasted stat point rewards later on in the game. There's 7 extra wis you can get and I generally waste the last two since you get them just at the game end. I'd recommend either 9 12 9 16 16 13 if you want to have a couple more evil options very early on, or 9 10 9 16 18 13 if you don't care about them. First stat point you get goes into dex anyway. Then you wis it up (with 1 pre-Pharod break for CHA and 1 pre-returning-to-the-Mortuary break for INT if you want extra lines that don't really matter but they're cool). At some point in that you might also want to get 21 int by whatever means possible, but if you're playing the mage you should be playing that'll take care of itself. Companion discussions will also want 19 INT for the final result for some of your companions, so if you're not playing mage and you don't have INT-improving stuff on you, you should put some points in INT (at your leisure) as well. 24 CHA gives you another possible way of getting the best ending, but if you're satisfied with the iconic WIS-based one, you'll have 16 CHA at the time you'll need 16 CHA. Or you can cast friends if you've missed the rewards. You'll know you should when you'll see who you're talking to. Stille, who is not a RPG ubermensch, let alone a RPG guide one, but knows PS:T.
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Apr 6, 2013 19:23
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Brother None posted:Yeah, right now it's basically off the table. It'd take too much out of the rest of the game. Lot of people really do want it, which we are taking on board, but you can't do what your budget doesn't allow. We've got a bit of flexibility, but there's just no way to guarantee or even vaguely promise it now; the plan is to not do it, and then maybe we will if things change (high pre-order numbers, high WL2 sales, whatever). I'm personally kinda glad the stronghold goal wasn't reached. Now if inxile feels like it would fit in well I'm sure they can find some way to do it, but they aren't forced to. It's certainly not something every RPG needs. Anyway congrats on the very successful KS campaign. Any idea how often we will be hearing Torment news from now on?
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Apr 6, 2013 20:12
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Aside from casting Friends on yourself, there's also a wizard in the private sensoriums that sells magical mints that give you the Friends effect, and Fell has a Friends-casting tattoo if you do a certain sidequest in the Wards. Also, I always like to give my Nameless One a nice, beefy bit of constitution off the start. I know it's not optimal; I just like to get his regen going as fast as possible.
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Apr 6, 2013 20:19
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Zilkin posted:Anyway congrats on the very successful KS campaign. Any idea how often we will be hearing Torment news from now on?
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Apr 6, 2013 21:04
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Brother None posted:I'm not sure yet. Certainly not weekly, that's just not our style. Certainly during early pre-production we might be a bit more quiet because there just isn't anything to show or talk about. I like to imagine that instead of arguing about whose idea for a particular feature is better, you guys'll have Hula-hoop battles. Last man standing - I can picture Colin growing more and more surly as he seductively waves his hips to and fro, trying to get others on the same page for his designs.
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Apr 6, 2013 22:27
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Torment Kickstarter posted:Many backers have asked about the “Stronghold” that was at the $4.5M Stretch Goal, however. At your request and suggestion, what we’ll do is allow all PayPal contributions through the end of April to count toward determining whether or not we reached this goal. On Monday, we’ll tell you exactly how far we have left to go and through the end of the month we’ll provide more frequent updates on tumblr and Facebook about progress toward that $4.5M goal. So, they'd need to get about 200k more by the end of April from Paypal alone.
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Apr 6, 2013 22:35
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I'm ambivalent about getting a stronghold. I think partly because of crap like in Skyrim where you get a house and buy silly rugs and poo poo or whatever and then decorate with your inventory. What a waste of time. I enjoyed the quests surrounding NWN2s stronhold, but I don't really remember other examples of strongholds that added more than a place to store loot.
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Apr 6, 2013 22:48
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I have no reason to believe that a stronghold in a game like this will be different from the BG2 strongholds, which all had relatively sizable ongoing quest lines.
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Apr 6, 2013 23:04
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I like decorating houses; you accumulate a lot of extra weapons and armour in games like these, and it's nice to be able to keep some around as memorabilia. The Sink in Old World Blues had a load of crafting features and stuff to do, but what I really wanted was somewhere to display the Scripture I got from Joshua Graham, or the unique power armour Arcade gave me that I never plan to wear. Related: one thing I really hope for Torment's crafting system is the ability to give a custom name to the things you make. It's such a common fiction thing for characters to have a favourite weapon that they name (Vera, Winona, Sting) but I don't remember seeing it in a game before Skyrim.
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Apr 6, 2013 23:21
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I have to say, I am pretty proud of this thread. In the first few pages, I was pretty afraid due to the amount of people just complaining and whining about inXile's track record but it took a real turn around and ended up being pretty awesome. And I really hope we do get that final stretch goal through paypal. I just might have to up my pledge too
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Apr 7, 2013 04:52
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Twee as gently caress posted:In the first few pages, I was pretty afraid due to the amount of people just complaining and whining about inXile's track record but it took a real turn around and ended up being pretty awesome. They're all currently in the generic Kickstarter thread!
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Apr 7, 2013 05:33
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Great Rumbler posted:They're all currently in the generic Kickstarter thread!  Please tell me they are just whining in general, not about this specific kickstarter, because how could you be whining after the team they assembled?! 
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Apr 7, 2013 05:42
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