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Toady posted:He had been holding back his powers his whole life and avoided beating up the bully in the bar, so killing someone was the farthest he had gone. It was also the death of the last of his kind. I don't know, the scene just worked for me. I agree, but I just never felt that he wasn't capable of it, or it was a big stretch for THIS Superman.
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Jun 21, 2013 19:57
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Rhyno posted:No, he had no creative input at all. There's one shot of a polar bear that I'm convinced is a nod to his insistence that the Fortress of Solitude be guarded by polar bears. Then again, I guess there would be polar bears in the Arctic anyway.
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Jun 21, 2013 19:57
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I see nothing wrong with Superman adopting a polar bear and naming it Krypto.
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Jun 21, 2013 19:58
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Burkion posted:I see nothing wrong with Superman adopting a polar bear and naming it Krypto. Krypto is a dog, that's his character. I'm sure the polar bear would be very good, but it just wouldn't be Krypto. If they called it something else I'd probably like it more. Krypto just wouldn't be a bear, that's not how he's written. blah blah blah Mark Waid
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Jun 21, 2013 20:12
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If Zod's neck can snap from enough force, shouldn't Superman's skin bruise and break open from similar force exerted by punches from the Kryptonians? Edit: Also, shouldn't it be assumed all of the other Kryptonians die in the Phantom zone considering they aren't "super" there due to no yellow sun, they have no food apparently, they aren't frozen, and their ship has a massive hole in it from a plane slamming into it? V- I thought they showed a scene with the Phantom Zone and it just looked like some alternate universe/outer space with no habitable planets (in the scene at least). No idea about the physics of the place though. Jabbu fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Jun 21, 2013 |
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Jun 21, 2013 21:14
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Jabbu posted:If Zod's neck can snap from enough force, shouldn't Superman's skin bruise and break open from similar force exerted by punches from the Kryptonians? Best I can guess is Supes spent years under the sun, Zod spent a few hours. Supes was just more durable. Also we don't know how the Phantom Zone works. So maybe they're dead, maybe not. Do you know how it works? I'd love to know.
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Jun 21, 2013 21:19
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Aquaman easter egg in Man of Steel: the oil rig's company is Merrevale Oil, which drilled in Atlantean territory in the comics. And Clark wakes up beneath two whales. Theory is Aquaman sabotaged the rig or at least was observing it.
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Jun 21, 2013 21:23
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The Phantom Zone in the comics at least puts you into a funky suspended animation deal, where you're conscious and can look out at the greater universe, but can't do anything. You don't need to eat or breathe, as you're essentially a ghost with cosmic awareness.
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Jun 21, 2013 21:30
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Rageaholic Monkey posted:Eh, I guess I see what you guys are saying, but the way it was presented didn't do anything for me. When it came to that scene, I wasn't thinking "oh, logically he'll have to kill him to end this." The whole movie just left a bad taste in my mouth, and that scene is a prime example why. I'm not sure if we're still spoiling stuff, so I'll go ahead just to be safe. Zod outright tells Kal-El, two or three separate times, that one of them is going to die. Zod says that he will kill every human being on the planet, right in front of Kal-El, just to make him suffer. And at the end, in the headlock, Kal-El begs him to stop, to not heat-fry the family, and his only response is "Never!" How do you deal with someone who is, if not currently as powerful as you, rapidly becoming so? (Zod was on-planet for what, a day or two and already mastering flight) You can't restrain him, you can't imprison him. And he has made it crystal clear that as long as he lives he will ruthlessly cull the human species any way he can. There is only one solution to this situation - to mix nerd metaphors, this was Kal-El's Kobayashi Maru. So in order to protect the people you have decided to live amongst, you have to kill the last of your own race. I think literally committing genocide on your own species is worth a breakdown like he had.
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Jun 21, 2013 21:31
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Burkion posted:Seriously dude, don't be an idiot. Or was Superman killing Zod in Superman II dumb? Or was Superman killing the Anti Monitor dumb? Or was Superman basically killing Darkseid (more than once across a few continuities) dumb? Or was Superman killing Doomsday dumb? Superman could have use his superspeed to put himself between Zod and the family. That's what I thought he was going to do.
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Jun 21, 2013 21:47
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If you're still in this thread you've been getting badly spoiled already, so I'm going to continue the process.WarLocke posted:How do you deal with someone who is, if not currently as powerful as you, rapidly becoming so? I take the complaint as less being about the reasonableness of Superman's decision in that moment and more that it's inappropriate to put Superman in a situation wherein he has no choice but to either kill someone or let innocents die. There are people for whom Superman is symbolic of the hope that there is always a solution where one doesn't have to trade away one ideal for another. We, as mere humans, may not always be capable of perceiving or implementing these solutions (so we may have to accept that there are legitimate situations in which, say, the police kill someone), but the hope is that this is merely a limitation of our own abilities and not such an entrenched part of reality that even Superman can't achieve it. I don't personally hold this perspective on the character, but I don't think it can be dismissed by pointing out that Superman was put in a no-win situation. It's the situation that is the heart of the complaint. Now, I think the ending to the movie actually points to the solution to this problem, which is that Clark is becoming a reporter in order to more actively involve himself in the world. He goes from loafing around the world until he stumbles across a disaster and passively handing himself over to the military to dictating terms and actively investigating. He's going to avoid the no-win situation by getting involved earlier, by being a concerned citizen of Earth, which ties into the final "welcome to the planet" / "it's good to be here" lines.
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Jun 21, 2013 21:53
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Toady posted:Aquaman easter egg in Man of Steel: the oil rig's company is Merrevale Oil, which drilled in Atlantean territory in the comics. And Clark wakes up beneath two whales. Theory is Aquaman sabotaged the rig or at least was observing it. That made me think if they would ever decide to rework Wonder Woman's origin to be built around Atlantis if they are indeed setting up a DC cinematic universe. Would be easier to connect as opposed to having to explain Themyscira and whatnot.
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Jun 21, 2013 22:07
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Rhyno posted:In name only. He's going to get a producer credit on every Superman film made until he dies. Oh god why is that? \/\/\/ I just figured it was a more interesting story! Uncle Wemus fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Jun 21, 2013 |
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Jun 21, 2013 22:59
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Uncle Wemus posted:Oh god why is that? He owned the rights. Does it really matter?
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Jun 21, 2013 23:13
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Jabbu posted:If Zod's neck can snap from enough force, shouldn't Superman's skin bruise and break open from similar force exerted by punches from the Kryptonians? I honestly wondered while I was watching the movie why Superman wasn't at least getting bruised from his fights with the Kryptonians. He clearly feels pain, there's a couple points were it seems he passed out for a moment, and I kind of thought it might have looked more effective for when he's having his breakdown at the end to at least have some physical indication of the massive amount of fighting he's been doing. Wasn't a big deal though, they didn't seem to have any desire to push the rating for this film. Also, this movie basically made me aware of Michael Shannon's existence and after looking him up I'm kind of sad I hadn't heard about him before. This interview where he talks about how he got the role of Zod makes him sound like a fun guy to know. Even if he does have a pretty scary face. http://splashpage.mtv.com/2013/05/01/man-of-steel-michael-shannon-became-general-zod/
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Jun 21, 2013 23:49
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EgoEgress posted:I honestly wondered while I was watching the movie why Superman wasn't at least getting bruised from his fights with the Kryptonians. He clearly feels pain, there's a couple points were it seems he passed out for a moment, and I kind of thought it might have looked more effective for when he's having his breakdown at the end to at least have some physical indication of the massive amount of fighting he's been doing. Wasn't a big deal though, they didn't seem to have any desire to push the rating for this film. I wonder if the issue is that they didn't want the costume to be damaged. When Clark gets whipped by the robot during his visit it draws blood, which we never see again. They'd have to mess up his face, which I think they'd avoid for the obvious reason. EgoEgress posted:Also, this movie basically made me aware of Michael Shannon's existence and after looking him up I'm kind of sad I hadn't heard about him before. Take Shelter is good and Michael Shannon is excellent in it, though very different movie than Man of Steel. And he's the best thing about HBO's Boardwalk Empire.
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Jun 22, 2013 00:07
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Trump posted:He owned the rights. Does it really matter? Exactly. In exchange for releasing his hold he gets a producer credit on every Superman film. And a paycheck.
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Jun 22, 2013 00:26
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Really great featurette on the sound design of the film. https://vimeo.com/68742675 Confirms the George Reeves Superman wind/flying sound effect easter egg 
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Jun 22, 2013 00:31
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teagone posted:Really great featurette on the sound design of the film. https://vimeo.com/68742675 Confirms the George Reeves Superman wind/flying sound effect easter egg Speaking of easter eggs, am I right in thinking the soldier that goes flying out of the plane when Zod shoots down the fighter escorts lets out a Wilhelm scream? It happened so fast I wasn't quite sure if it was the actual thing or just very similar sounding.
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Jun 22, 2013 00:34
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There were no bruises because not a single living person on that crew could justify blemishing Henry Cavil's face.  WarLocke posted:Speaking of easter eggs, am I right in thinking the soldier that goes flying out of the plane when Zod shoots down the fighter escorts lets out a Wilhelm scream? It happened so fast I wasn't quite sure if it was the actual thing or just very similar sounding. I heard it, then I rolled my eyes super hard. I can't think of a single thing more immersion breaking in 2013 than using the Wlhelm scream or that one stock cat noise. MJeff fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Jun 22, 2013 |
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Jun 22, 2013 00:41
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WarLocke posted:Speaking of easter eggs, am I right in thinking the soldier that goes flying out of the plane when Zod shoots down the fighter escorts lets out a Wilhelm scream? It happened so fast I wasn't quite sure if it was the actual thing or just very similar sounding. No, I heard it too. Took me out of the movie a bit. The Wilhelm Scream is so, so done.
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Jun 22, 2013 00:42
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The death of Zod should be considered a twist for the fact that it reveals Kal was 'holding back', to some degree, for much of the fight. This retroactively explains the length of the fight sequence. Kal likely could have killed him much sooner, but was trying to avoid that outcome the whole time. It's important to remember that Mr. Kent preached nonviolence so that Kal could learn to withstand people's initial fear and hatred. The decision to kill Zod was based on the fact that he consciously refused to ever stop hatin'. PaganGoatPants posted:Also Lois shows up out of nowhere. That took me out of it. No way possible she could be there. Although it hurt your immersion, Lois appears at the end to perform the important gesture of comforting Superman, and in fact risking her life to do so. The fact that she appears at all is much more important than how she found the right building (google maps. Who cares?).
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Jun 22, 2013 00:44
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:
My immersionnnn! 
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Jun 22, 2013 00:54
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Article on the costume and what could have been. Some interesting designs there, I kinda like the silver highlights. The "emo" Superman ones further down the page are kinda meh. Interesting, but don't really fit the character. http://screencrush.com/man-of-steel-concept-art/?utm_source=zergnet.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=zergnet_68824 http://imgur.com/a/TX71b
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Jun 22, 2013 00:57
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Snyder and Goyer interviewquote:In an interview podcast with Empire Online, director Zack Snyder addresses the question of Superman killing, and following that we also learn that producer Christopher Nolan was at first against the Superman killing Zod ending. quote:Snyder: I think if there were more adventures for Superman to go on, you then are also given this other thing, where you don't know 100% what he is going to do. I think that when you really put in stone the concept that he won't kill, and it's totally in stone, it really erases an option in the viewer's mind. Now, I think that doesn't mean that he doesn't now have a code, that he is like 'okay I just can't don't do that, this has to be outside, I gotta find another way, that's how it is,' but again you will always have it in the back of your mind this little thing [of] how far can you push him. If he sees Lois get hurt, or if he sees his mother get killed, you just made a really mad Superman that we know is capable of some really horrible stuff when he wants to be. quote:Goyer: And I think it's a shocking ending. I've seen the film four times with an audience, and everyone gasps at the ending. They don't see it coming, and I think it makes some people feel uncomfortable, other people say 'right on,' but that was the point, and hopefully we've done at the end of this film, we've gotten people to - the mainstream audience not the geek audience - to question.
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Jun 22, 2013 00:57
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I just saw it and liked it overall. A good take on the character that set it apart from the Donner Superman, which already exists and didn't need to be remade. My only real problem was with the final Zod fight. After all the dialed-to-11-crash-kaboom that had been going on, they really needed to let the viewer breathe for a few seconds. Instead it was just more tumbling around smashing into buildings at full volume so I was just numb to it all at that point.
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Jun 22, 2013 01:26
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jiffynuts posted:Article on the costume and what could have been. Some interesting designs there, I kinda like the silver highlights. The "emo" Superman ones further down the page are kinda meh. Interesting, but don't really fit the character. I guess this makes me appreciate the designs we got, because none of the alternate versions appealed to me. At all. I'm trying to imagine how that long-haired shaggy Superman would have looked in real life, and it just seems the stuff of comedy. Though, perhaps that's how the more hardcore Supes fans felt when they saw the suit without the red underwear.
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Jun 22, 2013 01:50
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Sir Kodiak posted:I wonder if the issue is that they didn't want the costume to be damaged. When Clark gets whipped by the robot during his visit it draws blood, which we never see again. They'd have to mess up his face, which I think they'd avoid for the obvious reason. I think it's one of things they assume you know about Superman without being told. As long as he has access to Sun energy, he can rapidly heal pretty much anything that manages to get past his super high durability that isn't immediately fatal. This happens a lot in comics. Something makes Superman bleed, he gets some Sun and he's good as new.
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Jun 22, 2013 03:06
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The decision to kill Zod was based on the fact that he consciously refused to ever stop hatin'.
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Jun 22, 2013 03:14
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:
It's actually made pretty clear how she does, and I was surprised anyone doubted it except the scene that does so comes in the middle of a fast paced fight. There is a shot of her and Perry watching the comets that are the satellite pieces fall from the sky in awe (and establishing that she is nearby) so she probably just followed the gigantic flaming balls of fire. Speaking of fire! The best shot is in that final fight, when Zod knocks the Lexcorp trucks into the building behind Superman, causing it to explode. Zod gets the drop on Superman because he momentarily stops to consider the fire (and probably the fact that there could be people inside it.)
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Jun 22, 2013 03:27
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The death of Zod should be considered a twist for the fact that it reveals Kal was 'holding back', to some degree, for much of the fight. This retroactively explains the length of the fight sequence. Kal likely could have killed him much sooner, but was trying to avoid that outcome the whole time. That's one of my favorite scenes in the film. Here is this literal god among men and he is so anguished by what he has just done he needs a frail mortal to lean on.
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Jun 22, 2013 03:41
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Regardless of your thoughts on Jacobin, I thought this was an excellent review that managed to encapsulate everything I liked about the movie. Worth it for this bit. quote:But when the film ends with Clark joining the urban creative class, I almost cried. No, Clark! You’ll spend the rest of your thirties as a glorified copy-editor. At absolute best, you’ll write a list-icle or two. I can see it now: The Daily Planet’s “Top-10 Emu Photobombs” by Clark Kent. Truly a hero for our times.
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Jun 22, 2013 06:37
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EgoEgress posted:Also, this movie basically made me aware of Michael Shannon's existence and after looking him up I'm kind of sad I hadn't heard about him before. Henker fucked around with this message at 07:02 on Jun 22, 2013 |
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Jun 22, 2013 06:56
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Semper Fudge posted:Worth it for this bit. To be fair, when I joined a medium-sized city newspaper, I was like Clark: a guy pretty much from the street. Still, had to do a lot of studying and what-not. Guess my strongest point was my ortography and spelling  Edit: "Hey Chief, how do you spell orthography?". In my defense, I didn't win a Pulitzer prize. Kal-L fucked around with this message at 07:58 on Jun 22, 2013 |
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Jun 22, 2013 07:45
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Kal-L posted:To be fair, when I joined a medium-sized city newspaper, I was like Clark: a guy pretty much from the street. Still, had to do a lot of studying and what-not. Did you work for the Daily Star?
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Jun 22, 2013 09:26
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McSpanky posted:Did you work for the Daily Star? More like the Daily Bugle.
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Jun 22, 2013 09:59
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Semper Fudge posted:Regardless of your thoughts on Jacobin, I thought this was an excellent review that managed to encapsulate everything I liked about the movie. I find complicated political interpretations of comic book movies a little weird, but it was an interesting read nonetheless.
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Jun 22, 2013 10:19
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I don't get how people are calling Batman a right-wing hero and Superman a left-wing hero. In all their movies, they defend the little guy as much the the big guy. They both face villains who want to flatten cities, so it's impossible to draw a political line between them. Yes, their backgrounds are very different, but it is what they do that defines them. The Dark Knight Rises was the only time that rich-vs-poor politics was actually brought up, and it is notable the Bruce does not address Selina or Bane's rhetoric.
Baron Bifford fucked around with this message at 10:59 on Jun 22, 2013 |
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Jun 22, 2013 10:51
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Man, Snyder is just such a good director. He understands the power of images. I thought they'd cut that scene of him wearing a 'cape' when he's a kid, but the way it's utilised in the film is wonderful, and oddly powerful. I have issues with the script, and I think that the romance doesn't quite work (Though it's not because of Adams and Cavil, who acquit themselves the best they can) but as a layman to Superman I didn't really care that it wasn't 'true' to his character, it's true to this iteration of the character. It's telling that he could've killed Zod easily but chooses not to until he absolutely has to make the hard choice.
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Jun 22, 2013 11:00
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So I got the impression that Zod wanted Superman to kill him? Zod could have just looked at that family and killed them without dramatically dragging his beam across the wall and pausing in front of them. Was it explained how the General knew what Krypton was called? I thought Lois might have learned it earlier in the story, which might explain it, but I don't remember.
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Jun 22, 2013 11:29
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