|
Saoshyant posted:The first fighting game I ever played was Street Fighter 2 on an arcade, clandestinely since laws in my country didn't allow kids to go anywhere near arcades back in the day. I was incredibly excited when my uncle got a copy of it for his absurdly expensive PC from the early 90's, but no matter how much I tried, it was impossible to play that game properly on a keyboard.
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 12:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 18:20 |
|
|
Twenty years later I can't remember how well it played, especially when I had no other version to compare it with and, while I doubt it was anywhere near arcade-perfect since that port was likely a budget-less afterthought, it seems unfair to link to a video of it running under Dosbox on a Wii of all things.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 12:39
|
|
|
I actually prefer a keyboard for some games, though thats likely because the first fighting games I tried to learn beyond a mashing buttons level were all on PC(Thanks melty blood & ggpo). I find DP inputs & air dashes to be a lot smoother & faster on a keyboard at least. Theres some hitbox sample videos that show how they input more complex inputs like Zangief's 720. Those translate to keyboard near identically. I would definitely buy a hitbox if the attack & movement buttons were reversed. I seem to be in minority of the keyboard players that prefer movement on the right hand. I find it a lot easier to control movement with my dominant hand since you're inputting motion buttons more than attack buttons, unlike with a stick where you can easily just twist it around with your left hand. Though its likely that I'm just not as fast/precise with a stick as I'd like to be. I found some of the trials in KOF13 to be easier with a normal ps3 controller than a stick, but I preferred stick for actual matches.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 12:42
|
|
|
Saoshyant posted:Twenty years later I can't remember how well it played, especially when I had no other version to compare it with and, while I doubt it was anywhere near arcade-perfect since that port was likely a budget-less afterthought, it seems unfair to link to a video of it running under Dosbox on a Wii of all things.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 13:06
|
|
|
I find SPDs and especially playing Zangief in SF4 much easier un keyboard than on stick...
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 14:01
|
|
|
DIY game cover by someone who knows what's up 
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 15:07
|
|
|
Speaking of PSX 3d fighters, I've been trying to find the name of a 3d fighting game I used to play on the PSX. It was blocky as poo poo and the characters were broken up into physical locations (school beach city and maybe one more) and either the final boss or the sub boss had a shotgun that did 90% damage. Anyone know what game this is?
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 15:22
|
|
|
RickoniX posted:Speaking of PSX 3d fighters, I've been trying to find the name of a 3d fighting game I used to play on the PSX. It was blocky as poo poo and the characters were broken up into physical locations (school beach city and maybe one more) and either the final boss or the sub boss had a shotgun that did 90% damage. The ever-hard-to-google "Vs." edit: http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/polygonmagic/polygonmagic2.htm LvK fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Jun 24, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 15:25
|
|
|
Cass posted:DIY game cover by someone who knows what's up I want a new Rival Schools game really bad. I had such a loving awesome time dicking around with Project Justice back in the day, even though I never seriously understood the game and the best way to play it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 15:36
|
|
|
Malachite posted:I actually prefer a keyboard for some games, though thats likely because the first fighting games I tried to learn beyond a mashing buttons level were all on PC(Thanks melty blood & ggpo). I find DP inputs & air dashes to be a lot smoother & faster on a keyboard at least. Theres some hitbox sample videos that show how they input more complex inputs like Zangief's 720. Those translate to keyboard near identically. I move with my dominant hand, too. I tried it the other way but I found DPs pretty impossible, especially from the 2P side. I think the fingers on my left hand just aren't dexterous enough, heh. The only downside of keyboards is 720s and the risk of overlapping inputs if you mess up your pianoing on fireball motions. Otherwise it's just so much more precise that I find it difficult to play on anything else.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 15:56
|
|
|
kaujot posted:I want a new Rival Schools game really bad. I had such a loving awesome time dicking around with Project Justice back in the day, even though I never seriously understood the game and the best way to play it. Project Justice was awesome as hell. It'd be great if Capcom brought it back.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 16:24
|
|
|
kaujot posted:I want a new Rival Schools game really bad. I had such a loving awesome time dicking around with Project Justice back in the day, even though I never seriously understood the game and the best way to play it. I honestly want another Rival Schools before any other Capcom revivals. They don't even have to work that hard, RS and PJ weren't that well made anyways. As long as I can fight with sports players and camera ladies I am 100% okay with whatever else.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 16:39
|
|
|
Like you guys said above, with practice you can play basically anyone on a keyboard/hitbox, but where it really shines is charge characters, there's no travel time between the opposite ends of a stick gate so you shave off a few frames in your execution time and a lot of games let you do b, b+f+P, b (for a Sonic Boom motion) to start charging again almost instantly (the motion feels like doing just f+P while holding back like a Shift key). As a bonus I got tears from a guy on my local group for "being a cheap scrub who doesn't to the moves right and plays the game like Naruto poo poo" 
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 16:53
|
|
|
Thanks guys! I'll try MK9 on keyboard then and look for some cheap fightstick in EU.Washin Tong posted:Like you guys said above, with practice you can play basically anyone on a keyboard/hitbox, I learned doing QCF/QCB on keyboard for Samurai Shodown IV. Still can pull it off regularly. Can't do a 180 or 360, though. And DP is way faster to do on KB, can't do them on a stick.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 17:00
|
|
|
Saoshyant posted:Yeah, I'm aware, though I have no clue on why. How do people play any fighter that requires 180º, 360º, or even 720º motions? Wouldn't they be better served with a stick for all games with the additional advantage that you wouldn't have to learn yet another input device? I play Cammy, and her Hooligan Combination and instant EX CS are both 270º motions. It took me a while to get used to the motions (it's 4 keypresses, so you essentially have to drum your fingers in a weird way,) but I can do them with 100% accuracy without even thinking about it now. 180º motions (3 keypresses) were always trivial. Keyboards have an advantage over joysticks that you never miss the direction: if you press down on a keyboard, there's no way you're getting down-back by accident, and 90º and 180º motions never get mixed up, since it's a difference of an extra keypress. And yeah, they have disadvantages too (like I said, 720º might be theoretically possible on a keyboard, but I've never come close to doing one.) As long as you avoid characters with long curving joystick motions, though, I think keyboards have just as much pro as con, compared to fightpads.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 17:51
|
|
|
Keyboards are the most uncomfortable possible input device to use for games and I'll never understand how people play anything on PC.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 17:57
|
|
|
Mr. Fun posted:Keyboards are the most uncomfortable possible input device to use for games and I'll never understand how people play anything on PC. It's really just because mice are really good for most things you want to play on a PC and keyboards get lumped in with that. Even mechanical keyboard switches seem far inferior to me than an arcade style button, and the layout of keyboards is obviously designed for typing and not mapping inputs of a game. Even the fact that WASD is still standard instead of the superior ESDF is annoying.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 17:59
|
|
|
Mr. Fun posted:Keyboards are the most uncomfortable possible input device to use for games and I'll never understand how people play anything on PC. Oddly, I feel the same way about controllers. I'm fine with joysticks/fightpads, but controllers just make me wish I had a keyboard instead. How do your thumbs not fall off? I think it's just what you're used to, really. I never had a console, but play a lot of PC games with a keyboard+mouse, and spent a lot of time in arcades as a kid. Ashenai fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Jun 24, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 18:00
|
|
|
Brett824 posted:It's really just because mice are really good for most things you want to play on a PC and keyboards get lumped in with that. Even mechanical keyboard switches seem far inferior to me than an arcade style button, and the layout of keyboards is obviously designed for typing and not mapping inputs of a game. Even the fact that WASD is still standard instead of the superior ESDF is annoying. Why is ESDF better than WASD?
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 18:07
|
|
|
kaujot posted:Why is ESDF better than WASD? This is off topic but for games where you need a lot of keybinds (probably only becomes super relevant because of MMOs, but I think it's still better for FPS, etc.), WASD gets cut off by the side of the keyboard. With ESDF, you get WQAZ on the left side of your hand, and then TAB/CAPS/SHIFT if you extend. On WASD, you just get TAB/CAPS/SHIFT. If you're talking about for fighting games on PC, I just use ASD + Space for up because it's what I'm most used to + it's sorta like what the hitbox uses.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 18:10
|
|
|
kaujot posted:Why is ESDF better than WASD? Also lines you up with ASDF if you use it well, so moving to typing is quicker. After playing with a stick and controller for a few years it's really really hard to go back to keyboards, even after learning how to play Gief and Clark with them. I still want to try a hitbox someday, but I just don't think my fingers work like that anymore.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 18:31
|
|
|
kaujot posted:I want a new Rival Schools game really bad. I had such a loving awesome time dicking around with Project Justice back in the day, even though I never seriously understood the game and the best way to play it. The game gets kind of nuts when you realize alpha counters are free, characters who can combo into assists do disproportionate amounts of damage, and Roberto and Momo will destroy your life bar without any meter. The game had some awesome designs that really need to be resurrected from the grave, though. Zaki is one of my all time favorite characters.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2013 18:40
|
|
|
Washin Tong posted:Like you guys said above, with practice you can play basically anyone on a keyboard/hitbox, but where it really shines is charge characters, there's no travel time between the opposite ends of a stick gate so you shave off a few frames in your execution time and a lot of games let you do b, b+f+P, b (for a Sonic Boom motion) to start charging again almost instantly (the motion feels like doing just f+P while holding back like a Shift key). That's actually incredibly lovely and won't work with post-first-generation hitboxes (that have SOCD cleaners so the directions cancel out) or games that actually give a poo poo about mechanical input (Skullgirls uses axis variables for input, so the directions cancel out). It's also the source of a shitload of justified complaints from non-hitbox players, as using a non-standard controller to never let go of back with Guile is one of the few actual things defined as cheating.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2013 01:04
|
|
|
I need a fighting game historian to help me recall the title of a game as described to me by a friend. The only thing I've really got to go on that it was on either the Neo Geo or the 3DO, and that it involved a special move wherein the character leapt into the air and their opponent was hit by a truck that drove under him. Ring any bells?
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2013 01:10
|
|
|
Broken Loose posted:That's actually incredibly lovely and won't work with post-first-generation hitboxes (that have SOCD cleaners so the directions cancel out) or games that actually give a poo poo about mechanical input (Skullgirls uses axis variables for input, so the directions cancel out). It's also the source of a shitload of justified complaints from non-hitbox players, as using a non-standard controller to never let go of back with Guile is one of the few actual things defined as cheating. I didn't even know that was possible. I always figured the game would just eat that input so I just charged the normal way. In any case it feels smoother on keys since there's no delay from physically moving a stick across its gate, though it will probably give you carpal tunnel eventually.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2013 01:14
|
|
|
Terminally Bored posted:Thanks guys! I'll try MK9 on keyboard then and look for some cheap fightstick in EU.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2013 01:18
|
|
|
Broken Loose posted:That's actually incredibly lovely and won't work with post-first-generation hitboxes (that have SOCD cleaners so the directions cancel out) or games that actually give a poo poo about mechanical input (Skullgirls uses axis variables for input, so the directions cancel out). It's also the source of a shitload of justified complaints from non-hitbox players, as using a non-standard controller to never let go of back with Guile is one of the few actual things defined as cheating. I think most people regard this as fine, unless the game is bugged such that you can move and charge sonic boom, or can block both ways. I think he is just using it to change direction quickly, which you can do just the same on a pad or SOCD-cleaned hitbox. I think most of the complaints are about SOCD cleaning itself, which, outside of capcom's dumb marvel bug, causes more issues than it solves.(see Tekken movement) Charging is marginally better without it but it isn't gamebreaking like other stuff is.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2013 01:18
|
|
|
Fix posted:I need a fighting game historian to help me recall the title of a game as described to me by a friend. The only thing I've really got to go on that it was on either the Neo Geo or the 3DO, and that it involved a special move wherein the character leapt into the air and their opponent was hit by a truck that drove under him. This is Yu Yu Hakusho on the 3DO, which I've never played but looks utterly abysmal. The chip damage on that dumpy looking super at the end of this clip blows my mind too  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqYSdRa9ICU&t=110s
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2013 01:19
|
|
|
Broken Loose posted:defined as cheating. defining lovely programming as cheating is dumb - even fuckin David Sirlin understood this when they put an ounce of effort in and fixed that dual analog glitch for hdremix.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2013 01:24
|
|
|
A Yolo Wizard posted:defining lovely programming as cheating is dumb - even fuckin David Sirlin understood this when they put an ounce of effort in and fixed that dual analog glitch for hdremix. Sirlin still put in the effort to avoid the glitch, though. It's a can-of-worms subject that will likely come up amongst players if you play charge characters with a hitbox.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2013 02:16
|
|
|
I can definitely understand why you'd want to ban that. Even a single frame cut from your sonic boom time adds up in a fireball war. And certainly if a stick had a hidden mod that made Random Normal X a frame faster no one would allow that.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2013 02:41
|
|
|
Mio Bison posted:This is Yu Yu Hakusho on the 3DO, which I've never played but looks utterly abysmal. The chip damage on that dumpy looking super at the end of this clip blows my mind too I can't imagine it's anything but that. Thanks!
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2013 02:57
|
|
|
Saoshyant posted:The first fighting game I ever played was Street Fighter 2 on an arcade, clandestinely since laws in my country didn't allow kids to go anywhere near arcades back in the day. I was incredibly excited when my uncle got a copy of it for his absurdly expensive PC from the early 90's, but no matter how much I tried, it was impossible to play that game properly on a keyboard. Well no wonder you couldn't figure out how to use a keyboard, SF2 PC is one of the worst ports in history and Mugen is garbage. EDIT: Also the real reason to play with a keyboard is double-tap movements. I don't think it's really any faster than doing it on a stick but every time I try to dash to the left on a stick I remember why I never switched. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Jun 25, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2013 06:06
|
|
|
Keyboard/hitbox vs stick is one of those things that needs to be tested more. Best way is to use vf5fs training mode with the complex display one that shows the input timing or script one for the rerecord emulators. I don't have a hitbox, and keyboards don't work on vf5. I'm stuck with the script option. My initial feelings that a button push was faster than moving a stick so it'll be nice to get some actual numbers. on too of that I felt it was easier to block a mix-up with a keyboard.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2013 06:22
|
|
|
Mejwell posted:I'm sorry to go off topic but your avatar is absolutely terrifying me, what the hell is it?
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2013 08:25
|
|
|
PrBacterio posted:It's an animation of the main character from an old Bitmap Brothers platform game for the Amiga, called Magic Pockets, charging up his pockets-based attack. Yeah, I added a youtube link underneath. It was one of my favorite games about 18 years ago. It's weird that it grosses people out so much. On topic: played Samurai Shodown IV yesterday. It's still my favorite 2D fighting game. Always get a chuckle from all the Engrish. I'm not sure why I couldn't get into V or the earlier games.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2013 08:43
|
|
|
So you guys can know, I made a thread about Jojo's All Star Battle, so you can
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2013 10:00
|
|
|
Ashenai posted:I play Cammy, and her Hooligan Combination and instant EX CS are both 270º motions. Instant air EX cannon strike should be trivial on a keyboard/hitbox. Just drum from down to back and then up + kicks. As for 720s, they're easier on keyboard/hitbox than stick and doing a standing 720 in SF4 is pretty trivial on a hitbox. 720s actually only require 7 directional inputs. The initial 360 and a 180 after that, with no diagonals required. The input buffer is pretty big and the only thing you need to worry about is that you only have 6 pre-frames after pressing up to input the rest of the motion and hit the buttons, which is plenty of time to piano or slide the 180 and press the buttons.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2013 13:36
|
|
|
bebaloorpabopalo posted:As for 720s, they're easier on keyboard/hitbox than stick and doing a standing 720 in SF4 is pretty trivial on a hitbox. 720s actually only require 7 directional inputs. The initial 360 and a 180 after that, with no diagonals required. The input buffer is pretty big and the only thing you need to worry about is that you only have 6 pre-frames after pressing up to input the rest of the motion and hit the buttons, which is plenty of time to piano or slide the 180 and press the buttons. The thing with 360s and 720s on a keyboard is that you have to press the diagonal inputs distinctly from the orthogonal inputs, i.e. you have to tap forward, tap down-forward, then down, etc. On a stick that's just a question of moving it from one zone to the next, on a keyboard it's done with different fingers and you have to avoid skipping straight from down-forward to down-back, for example, because then your input won't count. Obviously some games make this easier (like SF4) but try doing a standing 720 in an emulated game on GGPO. I can do a 720 buffered into a jump in Darkstalkers, barely, if I'm on my game. Luckily it's not really an integral part of Sasquatch's strategy.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2013 14:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 18:20 |
|
|
Tuxedo Catfish posted:The thing with 360s and 720s on a keyboard is that you have to press the diagonal inputs distinctly from the orthogonal inputs, i.e. you have to tap forward, tap down-forward, then down, etc. That's certainly not true for SF4 - you just need the "cardinal" directions of up/down, left/right - no diagonals needed. E: And if diagonals are needed, say for VS2 - I agree that a keyboard is pretty lousy, but a hitbox, with its tiny buttons lets you use one finger to slide across the directionals which will hit the diagonals as well.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2013 16:11
|
|