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Wandle Cax posted:He's a nerd because he looks like one, since his character is not really developed it's mainly appearance cues. Again he was probably just wandering around town by himself or walking home when he saw a bunch of kids crowding around. It's a small town, why is that hard to understand? It's also perfectly reasonable to say he was with the kids instead of imagining all this background of Pete's social status.
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Jul 1, 2013 05:16
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IBentMyWookie posted:It's also perfectly reasonable to say he was with the kids instead of imagining all this background of Pete's social status. Yes except he is standing away and behind them and comes forward to Clark only after they leave. It's not really a complicated scene to understand.
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Jul 1, 2013 05:19
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Wandle Cax posted:Yes except he is standing away and behind them and comes forward to Clark only after they leave. It's not really a complicated scene to understand. Yeah, it isn't difficult to understand that he separated for the bullying but to imagine all this poo poo before and after is weird.
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Jul 1, 2013 05:21
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teagone posted:There's also a bit where Superman keeps the fight above the city until Zod manages to bring the both of them back down. I'm pretty sure Zod's actually the one who takes the fight into space and brings it back down.
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Jul 1, 2013 05:22
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IBentMyWookie posted:Yeah, it isn't difficult to understand that he separated for the bullying but to imagine all this poo poo before and after is weird. Why are you so inclined on dismissing plausible explanations for the argument you're making as fan-fic or imaginary fan wank? Just to prove you're right? That's kind of pathetic, as far as debating the merits of Pete Ross' character and deconstructing that particular scene goes. Which is already a dumb thing to do since 1) his character was so minor, and 2) that scene is so loving blunt with its meaning that it really hits you across the face with a bag of "this is what this scene is suppose to mean" bricks. Dan Didio posted:I'm pretty sure Zod's actually the one who takes the fight into space and brings it back down. I was more referring to that bit where Superman juggles Zod with punch after punch above the city buildings like 3 or 4 times.
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Jul 1, 2013 05:28
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teagone posted:Why are you so inclined on dismissing plausible explanations for the argument you're making as fan-fic or imaginary fan wank? Just to prove you're right? That's kind of pathetic, as far as debating the merits of Pete Ross' character and deconstructing that particular scene goes. Which is already a dumb thing to do since 1) his character was so minor, and 2) that scene is so loving blunt with its meaning that it really hits you across the face with a bag of "this is what this scene is suppose to mean" bricks. Mainly because people were imagining this friendship between Pete and Clark which just wasn't there. And far more plausible is to say he was with the other kids than to come up with theories of why he wasn't and interpreting body language. I didn't start down this rabbit hole people were arguing with me because I had the gall to say Pete was with the Jocks which was obviously a faux pas of the highest kind in the Pete and Clark shippers club. IBentMyWookie fucked around with this message at 05:36 on Jul 1, 2013 |
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Jul 1, 2013 05:33
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Pete helping Clark up at that point was there to establish him as a kindred spirit and directly tied to Lois in that way in that SOME humanity would accept him, and also played with the expectations of Pete Ross being Clark's friend from comic nerds. Whether they were best buds or not is immaterial because that scene was shorthand to parallel what Clark was going through in the current timeframe, and to show why he would trust some of humanity (because SOME people were willing to help him up). Also, people focusing on his childhood are putting far too much weight on Jonathan and not Martha. In prior inclinations, Ma Kent was basically a non entity, in this, she takes the Jonathan role of being his moral guidance, and actually works as a direct bridge between Jon and Jor. But, people expect Jonathan to be the pure support, so they kind of subconsciously ignore what Martha says in the movie and put too much weight on Jonathan.
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Jul 1, 2013 05:52
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IBentMyWookie posted:Mainly because people were imagining this friendship between Pete and Clark which just wasn't there. And far more plausible is to say he was with the other kids than to come up with theories of why he wasn't and interpreting body language. I didn't start down this rabbit hole people were arguing with me because I had the gall to say Pete was with the Jocks which was obviously a faux pas of the highest kind in the Pete and Clark shippers club. It's more that you're dead set on ignoring what's on screen in favor of a fan-fiction where Pete was a tagalong who followed the jocks everywhere and decided to separate from the bullying because he was scared of Clark.
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Jul 1, 2013 05:53
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IBentMyWookie posted:Mainly because people were imagining this friendship between Pete and Clark which just wasn't there. And far more plausible is to say he was with the other kids than to come up with theories of why he wasn't and interpreting body language. I didn't start down this rabbit hole people were arguing with me because I had the gall to say Pete was with the Jocks which was obviously a faux pas of the highest kind in the Pete and Clark shippers club. Oh I see. So what you're saying is there's no way anyone could extrapolate from the scenes involving Pete Ross that he respected Clark because he saved his life, or that he represented a small part of the human race that was willing to help him up and accept him for who he is. Got it.
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Jul 1, 2013 05:57
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Toady posted:It's more that you're dead set on ignoring what's on screen in favor of a fan-fiction where Pete was a tagalong who followed the jocks everywhere and decided to separate from the bullying because he was scared of Clark. What is so offensive with saying he was with the Jocks? He is literally on that screencap in the same scene with them. It could be blocking for the camera for all we know of why he is standing further from the rest. Darko posted:Pete helping Clark up at that point was there to establish him as a kindred spirit and directly tied to Lois in that way in that SOME humanity would accept him, and also played with the expectations of Pete Ross being Clark's friend from comic nerds. Whether they were best buds or not is immaterial because that scene was shorthand to parallel what Clark was going through in the current timeframe, and to show why he would trust some of humanity (because SOME people were willing to help him up). That is quite a literal interpretation of it but okay. But he wasn't a kindred he wasn't a victim of bullying, he was a prior bully. But yes I agree it is hardly anything at all and doesn't signify much beyond what is represented he has made some people grateful, Pete being one. quote:Also, people focusing on his childhood are putting far too much weight on Jonathan and not Martha. In prior inclinations, Ma Kent was basically a non entity, in this, she takes the Jonathan role of being his moral guidance, and actually works as a direct bridge between Jon and Jor. But, people expect Jonathan to be the pure support, so they kind of subconsciously ignore what Martha says in the movie and put too much weight on Jonathan. What does Martha say? From my memory she says the same things of "changing the world" and fear of losing Clark if his secret comes out.
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Jul 1, 2013 06:00
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teagone posted:Oh I see. So what you're saying is there's no way anyone could extrapolate from the scenes involving Pete Ross that he respected Clark because he saved his life, or that he represented a small part of the human race that was willing to help him up and accept him for who he is. Got it. Acceptance usually would imply some dialogue there are no words spoken between the two after the bullying. Not even thanks man.
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Jul 1, 2013 06:02
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IBentMyWookie posted:What is so offensive with saying he was with the Jocks? It's not what is shown in the movie. He's not with the jocks, simple as that.
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Jul 1, 2013 06:03
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IBentMyWookie posted:MOS 2: A search for friends Live action Super Friends film confirmed.
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Jul 1, 2013 06:03
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IBentMyWookie posted:What is so offensive with saying he was with the Jocks? Other than it being a blatant falsehood? Not much. He's nearby, not part of the group. He's hanging back, watching what's happening, but body language alone shows he's not 'with' the Jock group. The fact that he helps Clark up after the fact cements it.
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Jul 1, 2013 06:05
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IBentMyWookie posted:What is so offensive with saying he was with the Jocks? He is literally on that screencap in the same scene with them. It could be blocking for the camera for all we know of why he is standing further from the rest. Nothing is offensive about it. It's just funny how you missed the point of the scene and are so dead set on rejecting some pretty obvious visual language.
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Jul 1, 2013 06:05
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IBentMyWookie posted:Acceptance usually would imply some dialogue Says who? Do handshakes, smiles, or hugs mean jackshit to you? It's not hard to infer acceptance or respect in the way Pete helps Clark up after he's pushed, or how he looks humbled when Lois asks him about the bus accident.
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Jul 1, 2013 06:08
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Toady posted:Nothing is offensive about it. It's just funny how you missed the point of the scene and are so dead set on rejecting some pretty obvious visual language. I have only seen the film once, but I guess I'll confirm for myself later this week.
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Jul 1, 2013 06:12
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teagone posted:Says who? Do handshakes, smiles, or hugs mean jackshit to you? It's not hard to infer acceptance or respect in the way Pete helps Clark up after he's pushed, or how he looks humbled when Lois asks him about the bus accident. When did this happen between Pete and Clark? Helping someone standup doesn't mean acceptance. Talking to someone and being their friend would be more of a sign.
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Jul 1, 2013 06:13
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IBentMyWookie posted:Helping someone standup doesn't mean acceptance. Pete called Clark an asswipe and dicksplash, and was bullying him on the bus prior to the accident. Clark saves his life immediately afterward in a dire situation. Clark later gets bullied, and shoved onto the ground. Pete comes over to help him up. How hard is that to infer that Clark literally changed Pete's character, and that he respected him?
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Jul 1, 2013 06:17
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IBentMyWookie posted:What is so offensive with saying he was with the Jocks? He is literally on that screencap in the same scene with them. It could be blocking for the camera for all we know of why he is standing further from the rest. For one thing, she clarifies Jonathan's perspective to Clark entirely (Clark thought Jonathan wanted him to stay hidden, while Martha clarified that she and Jonathan both knew he was destined for greatness and Jonathan was just trying to hold him back from rushing it and revealing at the wrong time), and is behind his decision to reveal himself to the world. Also, most bullies have been bullied which is why they pick on others. They learn that behavior. That's not the kind of kindred I was referring to, but since you brought it up...
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Jul 1, 2013 06:20
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teagone posted:Pete called Clark an asswipe and dicksplash, and was bullying him on the bus prior to the accident. Clark saves his life immediately afterward in a dire situation. Clark later gets bullied, and shoved onto the ground. Pete comes over to help him up. How hard is that to infer that Clark literally changed Pete's character, and that he respected him? Where are the handshakes, smiles, and hugs? Pete also rats on him to the first reporter who asks.
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Jul 1, 2013 06:21
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IBentMyWookie posted:Where are the handshakes, smiles, and hugs? reporter who asks. Those were examples I listed to make my point easier to understand, because you seem like the slow learner type. A gesture of a helping hand from someone who used to be a bully is kind of a solid visual cue. [edit] quote:Pete also rats on him to the first 
teagone fucked around with this message at 06:26 on Jul 1, 2013 |
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Jul 1, 2013 06:23
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IBentMyWookie literally needs scenes of Pete and Clark handshaking, smiling and hugging each other to understand the thematic point of Clark and Petes brief, yet signifigant, childhood relationship. For fucks sake man.
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Jul 1, 2013 06:25
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AccountSupervisor posted:IBentMyWookie literally needs scenes of Pete and Clark handshaking, smiling and hugging each other to understand the thematic point of Clark and Petes brief, yet signifigant, childhood relationship. Yes, some hugs, handshakes, smiles and some words would be loving nice if you're saying they had a relationship. What we're shown is practically nothing.
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Jul 1, 2013 06:26
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teagone posted:Those were examples I listed to make my point easier to understand, because you seem like the slow learner type. A gesture of a helping hand from someone who used to be a bully is kind of a solid visual cue. Well it cuts straight to knocking on Martha's door so... I mean you are picking at some drat flimsy threads to justify your deep characterization of Clark. I just want to make sure that we get all of them in a row. IBentMyWookie fucked around with this message at 06:31 on Jul 1, 2013 |
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Jul 1, 2013 06:27
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IBentMyWookie posted:Yes, some hugs, handshakes, smiles and some words would be loving nice if you're saying they had a relationship. What we're shown is practically nothing. teagone posted:A gesture of a helping hand from someone who used to be a bully is kind of a solid visual cue. IBentMyWookie posted:Well it cuts straight to knocking on Martha's door so... teagone posted:A gesture of a helping hand from someone who used to be a bully is kind of a solid visual cue.
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Jul 1, 2013 06:28
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teagone posted:A gesture of a helping hand from someone who used to be a bully is kind of a solid visual cue. For Kal-El, it is the bootlicking gesture of a well-cowed sycophant.
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Jul 1, 2013 06:34
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IBentMyWookie posted:Acceptance usually would imply some dialogue there are no words spoken between the two after the bullying. Not even thanks man. He extended his hand to Clark in a helpful, respectful way. And that's pretty much unversal for friendship unless you're dense or something.
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Jul 1, 2013 06:36
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teagone posted:Pete called Clark an asswipe and dicksplash, and was bullying him on the bus prior to the accident. Clark saves his life immediately afterward in a dire situation. Clark later gets bullied, and shoved onto the ground. Pete comes over to help him up. How hard is that to infer that Clark literally changed Pete's character, and that he respected him? Maybe if he stood up for Clark. That would be definitive. Except you're taking a hand up as if it's all explained and Clark's belief in humanity is totally founded. This is madness.
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Jul 1, 2013 06:36
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Darko posted:Also, most bullies have been bullied which is why they pick on others. They learn that behavior. That's not the kind of kindred I was referring to, but since you brought it up...
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Jul 1, 2013 06:37
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Rhyno posted:He extended his hand to Clark in a helpful, respectful way. And that's pretty much unversal for friendship unless you're dense or something. It's all about the Pete. He saves this movie. In Pete we trust, one hand held out will deliver us from evil.
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Jul 1, 2013 06:38
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IBentMyWookie posted:Well it cuts straight to knocking on Martha's door so... Yeah, but we don't see the conversation take place. Does he say Clark's name explicitly? Maybe Lois figured it out on her own? See what I'm doing here? Same exact thing you're doing, but with the whole Pete Ross helping Clark up scene; poo poo is right in front of you, and edited accordingly but you're ignoring it for whatever reason. LeJackal posted:For Kal-El, it is the bootlicking gesture of a well-cowed sycophant. Ok, this made me laugh. No lie.
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Jul 1, 2013 06:38
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teagone posted:Pete called Clark an asswipe and dicksplash, and was bullying him on the bus prior to the accident. Clark saves his life immediately afterward in a dire situation. Clark later gets bullied, and shoved onto the ground. Pete comes over to help him up. How hard is that to infer that Clark literally changed Pete's character, and that he respected him? The exact same actions could be ascribed to fear of Clark's power.
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Jul 1, 2013 06:38
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teagone posted:Yeah, but we don't see the conversation take place. Does he say Clark's name explicitly? Maybe Lois figured it out on her own? See what I'm doing here? Same exact thing you're doing, but with the whole Pete Ross helping Clark up scene; poo poo is right in front of you, and edited accordingly but you're ignoring it for whatever reason. Not really. You are inferring an awful lot from a hand up. And I am not inferring poo poo since it's shown in the narration.
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Jul 1, 2013 06:42
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^^^ How is it any different? The things I'm exclaiming are part of the narrative too.Unoriginal Name posted:The exact same actions could be ascribed to fear of Clark's power. Not really. If Pete feared him, he'd more than likely stay the gently caress away from him at all times, like he'd awkwardly shuffle away from the scene as fast as possible and not help him up afterward because he'd be like "oh poo poo, that kid is about to get turned into red paste."
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Jul 1, 2013 06:42
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IBentMyWookie posted:Not really. You are inferring an awful lot from a hand up. Even the small moments can be significant in life. This was once such moment which is why there is a flashback showing it, from all the things that could have happened in Clark's childhood.
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Jul 1, 2013 06:45
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teagone posted:^^^ How is it any different? The things I'm exclaiming are part of the narrative too. You are inferring motive. You are inferring why Pete is doing things. You are also inferring how Clark is taking them. The camera cutting to the next scene is a narrative flow. It infers nothing in Lois' investigations you see her interview people in sequence which penultimately ends at Pete Ross to finally end up at Martha's door. Hence you don't need to infer that Pete Ross led Lois to Martha.
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Jul 1, 2013 06:46
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I'm really hoping the next film involves us crossing over to a parallel Earth where Superman is the sort of evil dick we present him as in this film and show how much worse things can be, with reimagined flashbacks of scenes from this film. Clark watches an oil rig explode from a distance, doing nothing. Then he goes to work at a bar where takes the truck driver outside and beats his rear end before walking off the job without notice. Then he evaporates Lois Lane with his heat vision in the scout ship, and then kills everyone involved with the dig just to keep his secret safe. Then he decides not to turn himself into Zod and instead blows up their ship while they're still in space and picks them off, one by one, as they helplessly float around, to keep anyone on Earth from discovering Clark Kent is an alien while debris falls from the skies and rains down on Earth. Then, for good measure, he goes to IHOP during their All-You-Can-Eat special and doesn't leave a tip because the service was slow and clogs the toilet.
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Jul 1, 2013 06:46
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IBentMyWookie posted:You are inferring motive. You are inferring why Pete is doing things. You are also inferring how Clark is taking them. How is that any different from one narrative flashback showing Pete being a bully to Clark, to another narrative flashback showing Pete helping Clark up after he gets bullied? Did you need those two particular flashback scenes to be stitched together in editing so they'd play back to back for you to get the idea?
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Jul 1, 2013 06:48
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IBentMyWookie posted:Not really. You are inferring an awful lot from a hand up. And I am not inferring poo poo since it's shown in the narration. Or you know, we arent visually illiterate and got the pretty basic meaning of that moment. LeJackal posted:For Kal-El, it is the bootlicking gesture of a well-cowed sycophant. See, this guy here at least reads the scene. He looks at the visual cues and narrative structure of this scene and reads it in his own interpretation. You, IBentMyWookie are blankly staring at the words on the page saying "I dont see any words here". Its loving mind boggling.
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Jul 1, 2013 06:49
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