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Batham posted:I was mostly talking about pugs from a guardian point of view. Often enough you end up with 2 guardians in a group and for some reason many pugs are allergic to that. Seeing as I almost exclusively play guardian, I run into that situation a lot. I think we're playing completely different games. High level PvE (FOTM) basically demands at least one, preferably two or more guardians in each group. Guardians are by far, with no question or legitimate opposition, the tankiest class in the game. They're capable of tremendous projectile blocking via wall of reflection, spirit shield, and sword 3, have great access to aegis and permavigor, plus a constant, powerful self-regen that can be taken along with a spike heal. They also have multiple sources of flat-out invulnerability that require virtually no sacrifice from either utility skills or trait distribution. With hammer, they also have 100% uptime on protection. Warriors have 3000 more base hp. If you saw a warrior facetank a boss, that had nothing to do with the warrior being godlike, and everything to do with either a thief or an engineer spamming blinds on the boss. Warriors are easily one of the squishier classes in the PvE game, and they're not valued for that. They're great for boosting party DPS and keeping themselves buffed heavily in a lovely or quickly moving party. That's it.
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Oct 25, 2013 16:54
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You're pugging high level FoTM? You're a brave man, sir.  Edit: StarkWhite posted:They're capable of tremendous projectile blocking via wall of reflection, spirit shield, and sword 3, have great access to aegis and permavigor, plus a constant, powerful self-regen that can be taken along with a spike heal. Warriors actually have access to most of these too, apart from reflecting. When talking about the powerful heal, I hope you're not referring to virtue of resolve, because it pales in comparison to the healing signet over time. Concerning flat out invulnerability; warriors have access to this too, minus the fact that they can actually still use abilities while using it. But yes, guardians are valued for high level fractals for their wall of reflection, which I consider a support ability, but (I) you usually don't pug these. Also, don't forget that warriors have about 8k more baseline HP, not 3k. StarkWhite posted:If you saw a warrior facetank a boss, that had nothing to do with the warrior being godlike, and everything to do with either a thief or an engineer spamming blinds on the boss. Warriors are easily one of the squishier classes in the PvE game, and they're not valued for that. They're great for boosting party DPS and keeping themselves buffed heavily in a lovely or quickly moving party. That's it. No, there really wasn't. 
Batham fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Oct 25, 2013 |
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Oct 25, 2013 17:18
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victrix posted:I'm feeling really loving squishy as an Ele using pure offensive gear. I don't think it's just you. I ran zerker elementalist in dungeons for some time and went down with some regularity. Then I switched to warrior and I never go down but I'm way more bored. Somewhere in between is the sweet spot.
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Oct 25, 2013 17:26
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Batham posted:
Guild Wars 2: hi guys ~ i'm tank
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Oct 25, 2013 17:37
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Forgall posted:Guild Wars 2: hi guys ~ i'm tank Exactly why I screenshotted it. My first thought was "welp, this is going to end well".
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Oct 25, 2013 17:38
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I feel like when people in pugs say they're tanks, what they mean is that they do no damage and the group suffers from it, then everyone else dies while the tanky guy stays alive a little longer, continues to do no damage, and whines about his bad group. It just strikes me as a selfish thing, where you feel like a badass because you're not going down, but there's no threat mechanic so you're not really contributing much to the group.
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Oct 25, 2013 17:43
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It took me a long to get into a cof p1 group yesterday, that could actually start up the dungeon. I had guested already and it was closed on both mags and the server I was on, so I couldn't do poo poo. The rest of my group was useless too, I think I went through 4-5 groups before giving up and going to SE. I ended up actually doing the opening event myself after that, but drat the lame mechanic needs to go. They need to also make it so the dungeon path rewards are character bound instead of account bound. Once you've run a particular path for the day, you're done and there is no reason to do it again. Ideally we all should be running different paths, but let's be real here, a lot of the paths are just painful to go through.
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Oct 25, 2013 17:48
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teagone posted:All this rotation talk reminds of when I first found out people used spreadsheets to number crunch damage output in MMOs. What a bunch of loving spergy nerds. Just hit poo poo, don't die, and have fun. This subject came in the last thread (or maybe even the one before that), but I'm all for anything that puts more information out there to better allow me to make more informed decisions (not to mention saving me some trouble). Really, it just comes down to what you do with the info. Personally, I don't care what other folks run but I'd like to be able to have solid information to give them if needed, especially since the game itself isn't forthcoming with much of it. I suppose it all comes down to what a person does with that info, but I just can't wrap my head around the mindset of people being upset that it's out there when they can choose to ignore it and not have others knowing that information impact them in any way (unless they're the kind of rear end that enforces gear checks). StarkWhite posted:I think we're playing completely different games. I've been saying it for awhile, but while Warriors may get all the press, Guardians are far and away the best all-around class. Not only can they do everything well, there are areas of the game, such as high level fractals, where they are essential if you don't have 50-55 agony resistance (i.e. ascended / legendary weapon). On top of that, they just keep getting better. They're really the one class I feel better with having around -- like a fuzzy blanket that lights up at night.
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Oct 25, 2013 18:15
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I'm thinking about switching over to this after playing WoW and getting supremely bored with it but I have a question: what's the thing about not having any threat/aggro mechanic? From what I googled, this means MOST enemies just attack whoever is closest to them-- is that accurate?
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Oct 25, 2013 18:20
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Guardians are the kings of support, I'll never dispute that. Just not when it comes to mindlessly combine damage with tankyness. Warriors can autopilot that.
Batham fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Oct 25, 2013 |
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Oct 25, 2013 18:21
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Ghostpilot posted:[...] I just can't wrap my head around the mindset of people being upset that it's out there when they can choose to ignore it and not have others knowing that information impact them in any way (unless they're the kind of rear end that enforces gear checks). I'm not upset, I find it hilarious is all. Good on you if you use excel spreadsheets to play a game.
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Oct 25, 2013 18:24
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BLUNDERCATS! noooo posted:I'm thinking about switching over to this after playing WoW and getting supremely bored with it but I have a question: what's the thing about not having any threat/aggro mechanic? From what I googled, this means MOST enemies just attack whoever is closest to them-- is that accurate? It's some arcane combination of proximity, damage dealt, and toughness level that determines who a mob sticks to. Anet's really coy about explaining
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Oct 25, 2013 18:27
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BLUNDERCATS! noooo posted:I'm thinking about switching over to this after playing WoW and getting supremely bored with it but I have a question: what's the thing about not having any threat/aggro mechanic? From what I googled, this means MOST enemies just attack whoever is closest to them-- is that accurate? I found that it tends to prioritize toughness over everything else (something I discovered the hard was going rabid stats on my Necro). You'll likely be okay on damage unless you burst really, really hard. Proximity plays less of a role of an enemy has a ranged attack of some kind.
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Oct 25, 2013 18:39
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sound_again posted:I don't think it's just you. I ran zerker elementalist in dungeons for some time and went down with some regularity. The answer is to play a guardian. You get insane survivability, insane group support, and fairly insane DPS. Really, running a dungeon with a good guardian makes them so much easier. Especially if they brought a staff and decent healing traits. Even the squishiest classes don't go down in almost every fight if you have one that knows how to keep the group up. I know the game doesn't have a strictly dedicated healing class, but they really are one when played at the best. It's gotten to the point where I prefer to run dungeons as one, since I can't rely on someone else to show up to handle keeping the group buffed and alive.
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Oct 25, 2013 18:47
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LITERALLY A BIRD posted:It's some arcane combination of proximity, damage dealt, and toughness level that determines who a mob sticks to. Anet's really coy about explaining Its also take in account class health health range and armor class. (Nerco/Warrior have the most, Thief/Guardian have the least). So one of the way Guardian are kind of "tanker" is that mobs will go for them before a warrior.
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Oct 25, 2013 18:51
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On aggro, many enemies hate it when you res people and then there are some special cases related to certain mobs. The last guy in HotW, for instance, hates whoever does the most to his totems. (I have nothing to back this up other than my own experience.) I also remember some mobs, while leveling up with my wife, who would seem switch off her as soon as I cleansed conditions, in spite of her having more toughness, being closer, doing more damage, and already having aggro. In practice, combat is about paying attention to when you need to play defensively and when you can play aggressively.
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Oct 25, 2013 18:53
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BexGu posted:Its also take in account class health health range and armor class. (Nerco/Warrior have the most, Thief/Guardian have the least). So one of the way Guardian are kind of "tanker" is that mobs will go for them before a warrior. In a way, yeah. Guardians tend to lean more towards defensive arrays / trait lines than Warriors due to their lower health pools, though their defensive options tend to more than make up for that (aegis, protection, regen, etc). Health: High: Warrior, Necro. Medium: Engineer, Ranger, Mesmer. Low: Guardian, Elementalist, Thief. Armor: Heavy: Warrior, Guardian. Medium: Engineer, Ranger, Thief. Light: Necro, Elementalist, Mesmer. I don't really like Vitality as a stat; but if it has anything going for it, it's that it doesn't emit a neon strobe siren of enemy aggro the way that Toughness does.
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Oct 25, 2013 18:58
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Archonex posted:The answer is to play a guardian. You get insane survivability, insane group support, and fairly insane DPS. I agree with this but replace "gaurdian" with "support build". Granted, not every profession has a good support build and many people who play guardians do it specifically because they want a support profession so in a pug, a guardian usually means you have a support build.
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Oct 25, 2013 19:02
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StarkWhite posted:If you saw a warrior facetank a boss, that had nothing to do with the warrior being godlike, and everything to do with either a thief or an engineer spamming blinds on the boss. Warriors are easily one of the squishier classes in the PvE game, and they're not valued for that. They're great for boosting party DPS and keeping themselves buffed heavily in a lovely or quickly moving party. That's it. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unshakable That doesn't sound right considering that blind, weakness, and support/control skills in general are useless against anything you would actually need them for. I feel like that buff is the main reason PvE comes down to mostly a DPS race. On that note I believe that along with changing how conditions stack, making all mobs fully subject to control effects and buffing them so you actually have to use some form of it would improve the game tremendously.
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Oct 25, 2013 19:15
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Do Not Fear Jazz posted:To be fair playing the market in GW2 is hilariously easy, but unless you have the capital to start, you'll never make anything. Teach me how oh wise one, i might come into a lot of money once ascended armor comes out.
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Oct 25, 2013 19:21
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Ghostpilot posted:This subject came in the last thread (or maybe even the one before that), but I'm all for anything that puts more information out there to better allow me to make more informed decisions (not to mention saving me some trouble). Really, it just comes down to what you do with the info. Personally, I don't care what other folks run but I'd like to be able to have solid information to give them if needed, especially since the game itself isn't forthcoming with much of it. Agreed on that. I don't need to be spreadsheeting my way to another 0.05% dps in my ~perfect rotation~, but on the other hand, I'd like to know enough to not completely gimp myself. Some traits haven't even worked right since release. Losing a tiny bit of damage here and there isn't important, but outputting half as much damage as you should because you picked a bunch of broken traits really makes the game suck.
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Oct 25, 2013 19:22
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StarkWhite posted:Warriors are easily one of the squishier classes in the PvE game, and they're not valued for that. Its sort of a conundrum. Warriors are designed to have more toughness/armor/HP and just be able to take more punishment, while other classes have access to other things that let them deal with mobs attacking. Its fine in theory, but in the current state of the game, it leaves a lot to be desired; in virtually every situation it ends up where warriors can just ignore attacks because they take so little damage, or they get splattered because they have none of the tools the other classes have. It doesn't help that their downed state is completely dependent on their 3; if vengeance is useful then warrior downed state is amazing, if vengeance is not useful then their downed state is pathetic (and in PvE it is almost always not useful). And it also doesn't help that warriors' ranged options are rather limited (less than everyone else but the guardian) and everything else is straight up melee range. EDIT: Avalerion posted:That doesn't sound right considering that blind, weakness, and support/control skills in general are useless against anything you would actually need them for. I feel like that buff is the main reason PvE comes down to mostly a DPS race. Oh, absolutely. Until Anet does something about that buff (like instead of stacks that have to be burned off, any CC instead gives it 3-4 seconds of immunity), I'm not sure they can really move away from HP sponge bosses, which further reinforces DPS. I've also seen it gently caress around with condition durations other than weakness/vuln and I've seen it have 1/4-1/8th the duration on those instead of the listed 1/2. Reverend Dr fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Oct 25, 2013 |
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Oct 25, 2013 19:29
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Ghostpilot posted:I found that it tends to prioritize toughness over everything else (something I discovered the hard was going rabid stats on my Necro). You'll likely be okay on damage unless you burst really, really hard. Proximity plays less of a role of an enemy has a ranged attack of some kind. I assume by toughness you mean lack of? Because my warrior in green berserker armor, with a green berserker sword, and green berserker jewelry (basically 100% offense, but lovely gear), consistently gets attacked by bosses when I get in melee range. I've even had times where I ran far enough away to heal up to full, run back into the fight, and the champ will immediately swap to me and try to smash my face in. I'm guessing there is something in there checking for easy to kill players in attack range, and since my glass cannon fits that, I get focused. At least I've learned to be a slightly better dodger now.
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Oct 25, 2013 19:39
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SeaTard posted:I assume by toughness you mean lack of? Because my warrior in green berserker armor, with a green berserker sword, and green berserker jewelry (basically 100% offense, but lovely gear), consistently gets attacked by bosses when I get in melee range. I've even had times where I ran far enough away to heal up to full, run back into the fight, and the champ will immediately swap to me and try to smash my face in. If i'm not mistaken the defense in your heavy armor is basically toughness.
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Oct 25, 2013 19:43
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malhavok posted:If i'm not mistaken the defense in your heavy armor is basically toughness. Yep. If you and I are wearing the same stat array and attack an enemy dealing the same damage, you're going to pull it because your inherent toughness is higher than mine due to your heavy armor versus my medium. If I throttle my damage output then it'll stay on you. If I burst, such as the case of SD Rifle, then I'm going to pull it and likely keep it (just like I did duoing a champ with a GS warrior just 15 minutes ago).
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Oct 25, 2013 19:57
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Not sure how much, if any, generalizes here. Mobs in GW1 chose targets in the following. -Prefer targets that are attacking it -Prefer targets that are closer -Prefer targets with lower armor ('toughness' stat didn't exist) -Prefer targets with lower max HP (current HP not a factor) -Prefer to stay on their current target (usually unless there was character collision, then it almost always jumps to closest) So after running in a warrior (higher base armor, usually higher HP [caster weapons had no +HP]) typically would have only the mob they were attacking on them. But likewise when I ran a monk (healer/prot), no enemy targeting skills, +HP weapons, no superior rune (superior runes reduced max HP), armor in shield and inscription, I virtually never got aggro unless everyone else was already dead. GW2 has a lot of its base in the GW1 engine, but I'm not sure if this code was brought over or started from scratch. Though it might not matter as a whole lot of the targeting in GW1 was affected by collision, which is absent in GW2, so the same system without collision would be drastically different in practice.
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Oct 25, 2013 20:12
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Batham posted:You're pugging high level FoTM? You're a brave man, sir. I misspoke, when general meta trait distributions are taken into account, the hp gulf is far smaller, and still inadequate to render warriors anywhere near the tankiness of warriors while their dps (in an organized party) remains similar. When comparing VoR to Healing Signet, you're comparing apples to oranges; In order for a warrior to use healing signet, he basically has to give up any sort of spike heal at all, whereas the guardian has no such stipulation. Thus, the guardian has a constant regen to help overcome consistent condition damage as well as an enormously large spike heal, or a decent spike heal with a substantial invulnerable period. Warriors do have access to endure pain, but it costs a vital utility slot which is at an extreme premium on the warrior skill bar, and pretty much nobody ever takes it for this exact reason. It's not a very good skill in PvE. Guardians get both the incredible Shelter and Renewed focus, and it is largely irrelevant that one can take action during invulnerable periods, as the practical use of invulnerability is to avoid large, predictable spikes. It really sounds like you haven't played much or any warrior to come to these conclusions. About that picture, I really don't know what to say, other than that I wasn't there and cant confirm nor deny. That in mind, I have never, ever witnessed anything like this, nor been able to successfully face tank a boss in my hundreds of hours of playing warrior, and I don't know of anyone else who believes warriors can function remotely suitably in an anchor role. kerpow posted:I agree with this but replace "gaurdian" with "support build". Granted, not every profession has a good support build and many people who play guardians do it specifically because they want a support profession so in a pug, a guardian usually means you have a support build. Guardian support builds are that way by their utility skill choice, and still do fantastic dps. Full dps sword/focus radiance builds are support builds.
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Oct 25, 2013 20:52
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 I have a serious problem. I should take a vacation.
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Oct 25, 2013 20:58
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In my experience it is heavily determined by the toughness stat. I remember when I was first starting out doing CM story on repeat was very fast leveling. My guardian would have to sit behind the trees cuz those rifle shitheads would always snipe me without fail. They would continue shooting at the tree even while the rest of the party was sitting ontop of them wailing at their face while I had to cower behind LOS. Stupid.
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Oct 25, 2013 20:59
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Do Not Fear Jazz posted:
Please, teach me your secrets. I've only ever had 30 gold on me.
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Oct 25, 2013 21:01
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Jetamo posted:Please, teach me your secrets. I've only ever had 30 gold on me. I spend 80% of my work day staring at gw2spidy.
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Oct 25, 2013 21:02
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I haven't toyed with the site too much; but do you just wander it or does it have some more advanced filters to help you mine the data quickly?
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Oct 25, 2013 21:11
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I was making some gold flipping orichalcum inscriptions and other weapon crafting bits for a while, but that seems to have mostly dried up as all the early ascended weapon crafters got their weapons done. Never seen a profit amount that huge though, my hat is off to you. Have you found one great corner of the market, or is that just a whole swathe of various things? I'll probably start flipping again once ascended armor comes around.
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Oct 25, 2013 21:12
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Do Not Fear Jazz posted:
You said you need lots of capital to get returns like that from the trading post, so the real solution is to just forfeit all operating capital to me. I'll put it to a good use, too. I intend on buying as many of those horrible looking legendary greatswords as I can and posting the video of me throwing them away on youtube.
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Oct 25, 2013 21:12
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Baron Von Pigeon posted:You said you need lots of capital to get returns like that from the trading post, so the real solution is to just forfeit all operating capital to me. I'll put it to a good use, too. I intend on buying as many of those horrible looking legendary greatswords as I can and posting the video of me throwing them away on youtube. No dude, just salvage them with a crude kit.
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Oct 25, 2013 21:16
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Baron Von Pigeon posted:You said you need lots of capital to get returns like that from the trading post, so the real solution is to just forfeit all operating capital to me. I'll put it to a good use, too. I intend on buying as many of those horrible looking legendary greatswords as I can and posting the video of me throwing them away on youtube. But I want to buy all of the elonian wine. BobTheJanitor posted:I was making some gold flipping orichalcum inscriptions and other weapon crafting bits for a while, but that seems to have mostly dried up as all the early ascended weapon crafters got their weapons done. Never seen a profit amount that huge though, my hat is off to you. Have you found one great corner of the market, or is that just a whole swathe of various things? I'll probably start flipping again once ascended armor comes around. Whole swathe of various thing, diversify your markets. I sold 7500 items or so to get that, items which I bought a few weeks ago inbetween moots. I also luckily managed to flip about 500g worth of omega golems into around 1000g when that went down. Like I mentioned before I have around 700 hours, and have yet to do more than level 60 story missions, and most of my time ingame is spent playing on the TP. Weirdly enough days like today are also the reason I ask for gold constantly in gchat, because I don't like to sell stacks of items unless I'm going to dump 60% of them.
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Oct 25, 2013 21:17
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I know most of PvE can be beat by tapping 1 forever, but I try to at least pretend to have a plan. Thing is, while I do alright in WvW I always lose if I break off to a one-on-one, every time to any class. So aside from just sucking, is there any obvious mistakes I'm making with my build that I should fix immediately?
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Oct 25, 2013 23:03
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Do Not Fear Jazz posted:I spend 80% of my work day staring at gw2spidy. What if you spent that time looking at NASDAQ?
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Oct 25, 2013 23:14
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BathroomTile posted:What if you spent that time looking at NASDAQ? I should play penny stocks in real life.
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Oct 25, 2013 23:16
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Geshtal posted:I know most of PvE can be beat by tapping 1 forever, but I try to at least pretend to have a plan. Thing is, while I do alright in WvW I always lose if I break off to a one-on-one, every time to any class. So aside from just sucking, is there any obvious mistakes I'm making with my build that I should fix immediately? I feel that Dogged March is a much better use of the first trait in defense rather than vigorous return. I don't have much experience with rifle in wvw and only recently started using axe/shield, so I can't give any input there. Any particular reason you chose a racial elite rather than one of the warrior ones? I love the signet personally and the banner can be pretty drat useful in a small group setting. Disclaimer: I'm somewhat new to wvw in general, not to mention warrior, so I'm by no means an expert.
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