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Endgame spoilers!! ... To be honest, I would have felt much, much more angry (in a good way) at the Phantom if he had killed detective Fulbright a few days prior to the bombing and to the killing at the Space Center. Case 4 and 5 were the only times that he acted so strangely and conservative, even a bit too generous with the evidence (to eventually frame Athena for it, I guess?? I really misunderstood his motivations) So I sort of expected something big to have happened to him shortly prior to those two last cases. The real Fulbright being killed off by Phantom with the plan to bomb the Space Center and destroy the moon rock that contained his blood traces would've been cool and would have had my full attention to put that jerk to jail, but instead they went with "hah hah, he's been emotionless all this time! Curse that old limey!" ...... although he was the most enjoyable character in the game. It was just such a letdown. I didn't want to root for anybody at the end of that case. HelloWinter fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Oct 28, 2013 |
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Oct 28, 2013 03:24
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Apollo's new hood clothes are boss as hell I know there's a DLC case coming soon but any word on what DLC support is gonna look like for the future?
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Oct 28, 2013 03:35
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HelloWinter posted:Endgame spoilers!! Something Ace Attorney has always been good about was giving you a big, personal investment in the final case but I didn't really feel it this time. They had all the makings of it with Trucy held hostage, Athena with homicide charges, and Apollo with his personal vendetta, but it glossed over that and focused on this guy that didn't really mean anything to us. We got a literal personification of a faceless entity. It was like Bioware's awful habit of "The Reapers" or "The Darkspawn" instead of a well constructed antagonist to single out. We could hate Dahlia or Manfred because they were twisted schemers trying to harm our beloved cast. In DD we didn't know who to hate because he didn't even know who he was. The "boss fight" with him controlling his emotions was really cool and I really loved Fulbright's reveal, but as an antagonist "The Phantom" was just another Quercus Alba coming out of nowhere at the last minute. Austrian mook posted:I know there's a DLC case coming soon but any word on what DLC support is gonna look like for the future? Capcom said none in the near future, but that was before even the English release. I'm hoping we get another, but right now I'd just settle for the first one.
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Oct 28, 2013 03:43
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Pollyanna posted:Putting this under end-game spoilers even if it doesn't directly concern it... He's fine but he ain't no Gumshoe and I really really really really need Gumshoe to come back  .Oh, and I think he's part of this movement to kind of make the characters even more outrageous, even design-wise. Which I think should be more reserved to bit-part characters. I don't really like core cast to have crazy designs and act too wild.
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Oct 28, 2013 03:43
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Finished case 4 and I'm kind of not too happy about it. It really felt like filler despite being part of the main story arc. I'm just kind of confused about everything. Why were the pads switched and what is with all these vague statements alluding to something bad and *gasp* why are Athena's fingerprints on the lighter? It really just feels like they loaded on as much drama into a single case as they could, and it's just kind of dragging it all out. VVV The dark age of law is the darkness that darks the dark law and the dark ends justify the dark means. Apparently, something happened and now false evidence and false convictions are running rampant. In other words, nothing has changed in the Phoenix Wright universe other than the game trying to hammer us over the head with how bad that all is. Scher fucked around with this message at 03:48 on Oct 28, 2013 |
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Oct 28, 2013 03:43
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Okay, this is gonna sound dumb as hell, but I still don't quite get it - what exactly is the "dark age of the law"?Austrian mook posted:I know there's a DLC case coming soon but any word on what DLC support is gonna look like for the future? So far, only the first DLC is confirmed to come over. The second DLC is not coming over at all. The rest we have no idea about. Given that and Capcom's track record, it doesn't look good for neither the DLC coming over nor any more DLC being produced.  Which is bullshit.
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Oct 28, 2013 03:44
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Man, you guys and all your beating the game already and stuff. I just finished up Case 2, and really dug it. The whole luchador youkai angle was hilarious. Well, California does have its fair share of Mexican and Japanese immigrants, so the localization does work, in a way. I liked that new "red line" evidence thingy that Apollo used. I hope it shows up more later on.
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Oct 28, 2013 03:46
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Pollyanna posted:Okay, this is gonna sound dumb as hell, but I still don't quite get it - what exactly is the "dark age of the law"? Basically after Phoenix's disbarment for forged evidence and Blackquill's conviction for murder the media jumped on it, the public lost faith in the judicial system, and lawyers spiraled further into corruption because it was in vogue or something. You know, "the ends justify the means".
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Oct 28, 2013 03:48
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Wait, I just lost all my data? The game just put me back to the second day of investigation right after I finished it, what the gently caress?!
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Oct 28, 2013 03:48
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Pollyanna posted:So far, only the first DLC is confirmed to come over. The second DLC is not coming over at all. The rest we have no idea about. Given that and Capcom's track record, it doesn't look good for neither the DLC coming over nor any more DLC being produced. Isn't the second DLC just a quiz mini game though? I mean, I get why they wouldn't want to localize it if it's just that.
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Oct 28, 2013 03:48
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Austrian mook posted:Wait, I just lost all my data? The game just put me back to the second day of investigation right after I finished it, what the gently caress?! Can you go back to where you were via episode select? Also: the most important part of the Quiz DLC is coming over and that is the costume from that DLC you can unlock for Phoenix 
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Oct 28, 2013 03:54
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Case 5 spoilers: Okay, I loving loved Fullbright ending up being the Phantom, that revelation and then trying to nail him through the mood matrix was boss as hell. Only problem, the whole "the REAL Fullbright has been dead for a year and the Phantom took his place!" thing really took the wind out of that moment's sails. Although we did get the incredible breakdown scene out of it. Really, this was a great game for villain breakdowns. The weakest of them was L'Belle, everyone else had fantastic breakdowns.
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Oct 28, 2013 03:54
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Suspicious Cook posted:Something Ace Attorney has always been good about was giving you a big, personal investment in the final case but I didn't really feel it this time. They had all the makings of it with Trucy held hostage, Athena with homicide charges, and Apollo with his personal vendetta, but it glossed over that and focused on this guy that didn't really mean anything to us. We got a literal personification of a faceless entity. It was like Bioware's awful habit of "The Reapers" or "The Darkspawn" instead of a well constructed antagonist to single out. We could hate Dahlia or Manfred because they were twisted schemers trying to harm our beloved cast. In DD we didn't know who to hate because he didn't even know who he was. The "boss fight" with him controlling his emotions was really cool and I really loved Fulbright's reveal, but as an antagonist "The Phantom" was just another Quercus Alba coming out of nowhere at the last minute. ENDGAME SPOILERS: I dunno, it really does seem like 5-5 wasn't really about the phantom at all. It was all about characters we already knew - Athena (coming to terms with her past), Apollo (conflict over justice and some sorely needed character development/differentiation), Blackquill (vindication), Phoenix (the end of the dark age of the law). Everything established in Case 4 (which was kinda mediocre) was just a setup for Case 5, which I am perfectly fine with cause Case 5 was baller. In fact, the crap about the phantom really was the weakest part of it - I couldn't care less about the actual dude behind the mask and all the philosophical identity bullshit, I was more interested in the lawyers burning the poo poo out of the guy, his epic breakdown and seeing Athena and Blackquill get revenge. Maybe I'm biased because I didn't like Bobby Fulbright at any point in the game, but he's probably the shittiest of all the Final Case Bad Guys in the entire series. RIP annoying douchebag I guess. I agree that it would have been even more effective had we really gotten a chance to hate his guts, but the same thing that makes "his lack of identity means he isn't anyone" work, also makes it impossible to really care about taking him down. Instead, it's just kinda unfulfilling. He's like...the Yu Yevon of Ace Attorney. Who is this guy, why should I care about him, why is he the final boss, and who really gives a poo poo? I still like Case 5 a lot. It's great. But Bobby Fulbright and the phantom can be completely cut out of the equation and it wouldn't change a drat thing. In fact, getting rid of them and having someone else be the bad guy would have improved the case. God, I hate you, Fulbright. Even when you're dead you annoy me. Pick posted:He's fine but he ain't no Gumshoe and I really really really really need Gumshoe to come back ENDGAME SPOILER I'd bring up the fact that he's supposedly acting that way because of the whole "derr I have no emotions" poo poo, but when you really think about it that doesn't make sense at all. Whatever, I'm glad he's gone. Pollyanna fucked around with this message at 03:58 on Oct 28, 2013 |
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Oct 28, 2013 03:56
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Pollyanna posted:I still like Case 5 a lot. It's great. Agreed. I don't want to make it sound like I disliked the case. Quite the opposite. I just didn't really care all that much about The Phantom. Maybe if Fulbright was The Phantom the whole time instead of being dead, or if "The Phantom" was just some ruse Fulbright used to draw suspicion away from himself it would have been different, but he just didn't do it for me. It's still a minor gripe in the face of the important members of the cast being their awesome selves.
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Oct 28, 2013 04:06
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Ahahahahaa holy gently caress still in Case 2 and I just discovered the taser shackles This game is turning out to be fantastic 
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Oct 28, 2013 04:08
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One minor complaint that's really bothering me: in case 5, every time there's a dramatic "Hold it" or "Objection" from a character that isn't onscreen...the objection isn't voiced, even if the character has a voice clip for it. I figure the idea is to keep you from knowing who the character is until you see him, but it feels a bit weird to me.
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Oct 28, 2013 04:13
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Scher posted:Apparently, something happened and now false evidence and false convictions are running rampant. In other words, nothing has changed in the Phoenix Wright universe other than the game trying to hammer us over the head with how bad that all is. That explains why you can't really feel the effects of it in the game. You can't really get any more corrupt than a 99.8% conviction rate.  Well Manicured Man posted:Case 5 spoilers: Suspicious Cook posted:Agreed. I don't want to make it sound like I disliked the case. Quite the opposite. I just didn't really care all that much about The Phantom. Maybe if Fulbright was The Phantom the whole time instead of being dead, or if "The Phantom" was just some ruse Fulbright used to draw suspicion away from himself it would have been different, but he just didn't do it for me. It's still a minor gripe in the face of the important members of the cast being their awesome selves. ENDGAME SPOILERS (and if you finished the game, read this): I liked bringing him down. The act of doing it was fun as poo poo. But I feel like who I was bringing down is just as important and I just couldn't give a poo poo about the guy in particular. Case 5 really is about the protagonists/main characters, and it doesn't try to hide it at all. That guy was just kind of a throwaway cardboard cutout and didn't really matter. ... Holy poo poo, I just understood why they made him the last boss.  Hear me out on this. The last case is all about Athena, Apollo, Blackquill and Phoenix. Everything is about getting over the past, dealing with the present, and securing a good future (or whatever). We can all agree on this. In that case, the bad guy really does not matter in the end. It could be Starbuck, it could be Tonate, it could be Means, it could be loving Oldbag for all I care. The point is, it's not about him. The identity of the bad guy is irrelevant because in Case 5 and in the long scheme of Dual Destinies, they don't really HAVE an identity, they're just there to tie up the story and character development. They're just an agent to provide thrill and drama by setting all the events of the game in motion. That's why they bring up the lack of identity issue, that's why they made his breakdown what it is. Who he is doesn't matter. He's just a tool. The final boss of Dual Destinies is, ironically enough, the means to an end - a reason to develop the characters and something to punch so you can get the princess and save the day. Nothing more. The final boss is so nebulous and so ill-defined that the game just glosses over them - and it was always meant to do that. That's why they created the phantom. They decided not to bullshit us with saying that the villain matters any more than the main characters' struggles, so they made him a non-entity. If we think about it that way, the whole phantom bullshit actually makes sense! Anyway, I still don't like Fulbright.
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Oct 28, 2013 04:17
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Sherringford posted:One minor complaint that's really bothering me: in case 5, every time there's a dramatic "Hold it" or "Objection" from a character that isn't onscreen...the objection isn't voiced, even if the character has a voice clip for it. I figure the idea is to keep you from knowing who the character is until you see him, but it feels a bit weird to me. One thing I didn't like in this game is how often they do that. It used to be a genuinely shocking thing when someone else objected, but in this game they tend to throw it willy-nilly. That aside (spoilers for the entire series) I felt this game made the final villain too easy to take down. I remember feeling very, very satisfied when I finally pegged Damon Gant and Godot, because I only realized how to absolutely get them right before the final decision. With Fulbright I figured out the moon rock earring would get him in the end as soon as they mentioned his fear of the rock.
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Oct 28, 2013 04:24
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Arbitrary Coin posted:I guess it helps that part of me can't help but see Blackquill as kind a dork, regardless of whether or not the writers intended that. The inmate stories work well. Now I'm just waiting for a game where Apollo, now all bandaged up, combats the "dark age of the law" in his own special way. While his ways of lawyering have long been forgotten, Apollo can slice and dice corrupt law enforcement, politicians, and government officials with his blade of justice! His enhanced precision allows him the cut enemies up accurately as the world around him slows. But he then falls to the blade of his samurai rival Simon Blackquill. With new cybernetic enhancements, Apollo once again rises, and goes after Simon and his band of allies to claim revenge.
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Oct 28, 2013 04:24
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Snix posted:Now I'm just waiting for a game where Apollo, now all bandaged up, combats the "dark age of the law" in his own special way. While his ways of lawyering have long been forgotten, Apollo can slice and dice corrupt law enforcement, politicians, and government officials with his blade of justice! His enhanced precision allows him the cut enemies up accurately as the world around him slows. But he then falls to the blade of his samurai rival Simon Blackquill. With new cybernetic enhancements, Apollo once again rises, and goes after Simon and his band of allies to claim revenge. I want this game.
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Oct 28, 2013 04:29
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Well gently caress, I just accidentally got the final villain spoiled. How big of a reveal is this? Did I just ruin another AA game for myself because I wanted to listen to the music while walking to class? loving youtube comment bullshit
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Oct 28, 2013 04:30
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Austrian mook posted:Well gently caress, I just accidentally got the final villain spoiled. How big of a reveal is this? Did I just ruin another AA game for myself because I wanted to listen to the music while walking to class? Never read Youtube comments.
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Oct 28, 2013 04:30
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Apollo Justice Rising: Appealsgance I did like how they came up with a plot thing for the Sty over the eye and let us use every characters unique traits. It also didn't hurt that they made them feel pretty mechanically different in how they worked which was nice. Any rumor on the sales front? Austrian mook posted:Well gently caress, I just accidentally got the final villain spoiled. How big of a reveal is this? Did I just ruin another AA game for myself because I wanted to listen to the music while walking to class? You'll still have lots of fun but, honestly, it's actually really well done in the game so its one of those few scenarios where I can say its a bit lame you got spoiled.
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Oct 28, 2013 04:30
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Austrian mook posted:Well gently caress, I just accidentally got the final villain spoiled. How big of a reveal is this? Did I just ruin another AA game for myself because I wanted to listen to the music while walking to class? Don't worry, you haven't spoiled much at all. It matters far less than other revelations towards the end.
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Oct 28, 2013 04:31
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Pollyanna posted:Don't worry, you haven't spoiled much at all. It matters far less than other revelations towards the end. Thank god, this has happened a lot, it's always in those youtube videos that appear in your recomended sidebar that are like, FINAL BREAKDOWN OF THE NEW ACE ATTORNEY GAME THAT HAS BEEN OUT FOR 2 HOURS I DON'T KNOW HOW I BEAT THE GAME BUT I DID SPOILERS EXCEPT THE GUYS FACE IS RIGHT HERE AND IT'S CLEARLY THE BAD GUY HERE YOU GO I HOPE YOU MAGICALLY KNEW NOT TO LOOK!!!
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Oct 28, 2013 04:32
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Gyre posted:One thing I didn't like in this game is how often they do that. It used to be a genuinely shocking thing when someone else objected, but in this game they tend to throw it willy-nilly. Pollyanna posted:
Chaltab fucked around with this message at 04:51 on Oct 28, 2013 |
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Oct 28, 2013 04:33
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This reminds me, I found an annoying piece of evidence they overlooked in case five: Fulbright's heartbeat increased when Athena stabbed him when he was disguised as Metis. It's very odd that you can't present the fact that Metis died instantly from being stabbed in the heart, so her heartbeat couldn't increase.
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Oct 28, 2013 04:46
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Now that I finally finished case 5...time to join the black box fest! It wasn't my favorite final case in the series, but it sure as hell beat Apollo Justice's fourth case at least. I think the case was at its best when Phoenix finished proving Athena was innocent, but everything after that felt a bit...eh. I'm also kind of disappointed that they didn't bring up the fact that Trucy was a hostage more often. It felt like Phoenix completely forgot about it at some point. I think two things they could have done to make the case better is have us see Apollo's friend during case 2 instead of just hearing about him and having Fulbring only have been killed before the bombing instead of that "one year" thing. That felt kind of cheap. It felt like almost all conflict in the case was solved before catching the final killer so it was kind of like the plot was running out of gas. I still liked the case though. Another thing I was kiind of let down about though was that Phoenix sort of took over everything at the end again. I get that it makes sense with the story they made, but I would have preferred if Phoenix handled the first part of the trial with Edgeworth and Apollo had the last bit. It wouldn't have made much sense with the setup they had, but I would have preferred if they changed a few things about it for that to make sense. ...If I'm making any sense. Anyway, liked the case, it was fun, but it peaked waaay before it ended.
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Oct 28, 2013 04:48
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Did anyone else get the vibe that (case 5)Aura was in love with Metis? It seemed they were implying that Aura had much stronger feelings than just coworkers/friends towards Metis, but then nothing came of it* *aside from, you know, hostage taking and all
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Oct 28, 2013 05:01
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Oh my god, case 5. I can't wait to loving find out what everyone else has been putting in these black boxes because I'm still loving floored right now.
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Oct 28, 2013 05:02
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Chaltab posted:Did anyone else get the vibe that (case 5)Aura was in love with Metis? It seemed they were implying that Aura had much stronger feelings than just coworkers/friends towards Metis, but then nothing came of it* I'm pretty certain thats the exact implication. They even chide the judge for directly asking it.
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Oct 28, 2013 05:05
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Chaltab posted:Did anyone else get the vibe that (case 5)Aura was in love with Metis? It seemed they were implying that Aura had much stronger feelings than just coworkers/friends towards Metis, but then nothing came of it* She basically says it herself outright. I think the line was "You knew how I felt about her! Her respect as a co-worker wasn't all I wanted!" or something like that. It really is weird that it was never a plot point or anything.
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Oct 28, 2013 05:08
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Suspicious Cook posted:She basically says it herself outright. I think the line was "You knew how I felt about her! Her respect as a co-worker wasn't all I wanted!" or something like that. It really is weird that it was never a plot point or anything. I think the implication was this was her motivation for the robot apocalypse thingy. Like "Not only was my brother unjustly accused of killing the person I was in love with, the real killer is still free!"
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Oct 28, 2013 05:18
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Suspicious Cook posted:She basically says it herself outright. I think the line was "You knew how I felt about her! Her respect as a co-worker wasn't all I wanted!" or something like that. It really is weird that it was never a plot point or anything. Japan's more conservative about sexuality than the West in many respects, so Japanese writers often prefer an ambiguous or don't-ask-don't-tell approach to it in media. It would be pretty weird to mention someone's sexuality unambiguously in a mainstream Japanese video game, especially as a point of contention for the court to deliberate on.
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Oct 28, 2013 05:22
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Chaltab posted:Did anyone else get the vibe that (case 5)Aura was in love with Metis? It seemed they were implying that Aura had much stronger feelings than just coworkers/friends towards Metis, but then nothing came of it* Yes, especially given how the robots referred to both of them as mother at some point, and Aura insisted they instead use "miss" in the wake of Metis' death. There were points that I was questioning whether Athena wasn't a robot, actually, given the lack of father figure  .Did cases 4 and 5 in general remind people of 1-4? Two related murders separated by years, a legal deadline, angst over whether a main character killed their parent as a kid, etc. Don't get me wrong, they pulled it off well, but it seemed pretty similar, almost as a passing on to the next generation.
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Oct 28, 2013 05:22
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Mennonites Revenge posted:Yes, especially given how the robots referred to both of them as mother at some point, and Aura insisted they instead use "miss" in the wake of Metis' death. There were points that I was questioning whether Athena wasn't a robot, actually, given the lack of father figure I feel like most Ace Attorney major/recurring characters are related to some cold case that is either unsolved or solved incorrectly. Edgeworth, The Fey family, Ema, Kay, Athena, The Gavins... The list is pretty substantial. This game just adds Athena, Simon, and the Space Station staff.
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Oct 28, 2013 05:26
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Chaltab posted:Yeah, there's definitely a lot of that going on and it's much better than what I was expecting (I thought one of the robots had done it) but I do feel that (Endgame Spoilers) They sort of undermined that by delivering some pathos with their usual dish of psychotic breakdown. The Phantom remorselessly killed Athena's mom and Apollo's best friend, and while the game ultimately renders who he is irrelevant, it also asks you to empathize his whole "lost his own identity" thing. You're ultimately left with the feeling that he's so broken an individual that it's whoever ordered the initial sabotage of HAT is more accountable than he is. I agree, it would have been better had they not tried to draw that drama out of him right at the last second. Doing that displaces the feeling that you've finally caught the bad guy (like you said), makes you feel weird by trying to empathize with him, and fucks with my theory a little. Hey, I might not be completely correct but you can't prove I'm incorrect  Gyre posted:This reminds me, I found an annoying piece of evidence they overlooked in case five: Fulbright's heartbeat increased when Athena stabbed him when he was disguised as Metis. It's very odd that you can't present the fact that Metis died instantly from being stabbed in the heart, so her heartbeat couldn't increase. That tripped me up too. I noticed when Ponko first testified, kept expecting it to show up later and nobody ever commented on it. Maybe it's a mistake  Chaltab posted:Did anyone else get the vibe that (case 5)Aura was in love with Metis? It seemed they were implying that Aura had much stronger feelings than just coworkers/friends towards Metis, but then nothing came of it* She most certainly was. It's all but outright stated. Also, I really really liked Aura's character and I wish they did more with her. Between Aura and Robin, this has been the queerest AA game yet 
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Oct 28, 2013 05:32
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Playing through case 5 right now, and I feel that Edgeworth just really has no place there. Having him pop up all of the sudden is just a bit jarring to me. Pearl, on the other hand, I wish was in the game more. Her animations are just too adorable!
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Oct 28, 2013 05:47
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Scher posted:Playing through case 5 right now, and I feel that Edgeworth just really has no place there. Having him pop up all of the sudden is just a bit jarring to me. Pearl, on the other hand, I wish was in the game more. Her animations are just too adorable! omg i know me tooooooooooooooooooooooo  Good news! She plays a major part in the DLC case. You'll see lots of her in that one.
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Oct 28, 2013 05:52
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Pollyanna posted:omg i know me tooooooooooooooooooooooo Gyre posted:Japan's more conservative about sexuality than the West in many respects, so Japanese writers often prefer an ambiguous or don't-ask-don't-tell approach to it in media. It would be pretty weird to mention someone's sexuality unambiguously in a mainstream Japanese video game, especially as a point of contention for the court to deliberate on. But yeah, I hope she gets out of jail soon enough to appear in the next game. You know, if there is a next game.
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Oct 28, 2013 05:55
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