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Bread Zeppelin posted:I just watched all the episodes over the span of two weeks. How long does this mourning feeling last? Not just for Walt, but for the end of the greatest TV show ever. Sounds like you need to get started on The Shield.
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Jan 7, 2014 18:41
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Tender Bender posted:It seemed pretty apparent that settling down with his wife and caring for their handicapped child sidelined any pursuit of an academic career and/or relocating the family to work at some research facility. Tenure track is brutal and you won't make good money or have any time for your family for many, many years. Yeah, it always seemed to me like HS teaching was an easy job he settled for because of the other, very challenging circumstances in his life - some of which he legitimately fell into (perhaps Junior was unplanned too? his cerebral palsy certainly was) and others of which he probably had some hand in causing. Also, I just finished my re-watch with *my girlfriend* the other day, and she agreed with me that it was better than Weeds.
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Jan 7, 2014 18:50
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Apollodorus posted:Also, I just finished my re-watch with *my girlfriend* the other day, and she agreed with me that it was better than Weeds. HAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH No poo poo, Weeds fell apart after the first season and fell into total poo poo by season 4. I'm hoping Kenji learned her lessons from it so that OITNB doesn't suffer in the same way. Also, Ozymandias in glorious full 1080p and DTS-MA is the loving most amazing thing. I still hope that Hank can live every time I watch it. Boywhiz88 fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Jan 7, 2014 |
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Jan 7, 2014 19:39
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My boss marathoned Breaking Bad recently. He liked it, but still claims Dexter was better. On the plus side, he did agree that Dexter's ending was totally poo poo (phew, at least I'm not working for a complete idiot  ), he just claimed that Dexter minus it's ending was better than Breaking Bad.
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Jan 7, 2014 20:28
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BottledBodhisvata posted:So this show has given me a true appreciation for meth. Have you ever met a meth addict? And had to deal with them? Seriously.
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Jan 7, 2014 21:17
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escape artist posted:Have you ever met a meth addict? And had to deal with them? Seriously. Yes. I've met pretty much every type of addict. I'm not saying anything good about addiction, but you have to have a certain respect for so potent a mixture. Like I said, it's not the drug's addictive qualities or even the effect it gives you, so much as just the method behind it. It's alchemic, it's like a sort of dark sorcery that people fear, but can't help but be drawn to. Edit: Addiction is in and of itself pretty interesting as well, especially in how it can manipulate people's minds and turn them against themselves.
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Jan 7, 2014 22:01
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You have a mystical understanding of the chemistry involved it seems, because the show presents it as such. There's nothing remotely alchemical or magic about it and for someone with Walter White's level of expertise its actually dead easy super basic organic chemistry in real life. "So potent a mixture" is nearly 100 years old at this point, and methamphetamine (as well as regular amphetamine) has recently been found to occur naturally in certain species of acacia. That said, the amount of stigma attached to methamphetamine use is absurd, to say nothing of the pseudoscience that pervades the associated mythology, and the problems commonly associated with its use are nearly entirely due to poverty and class issues rather than any innate property of the drug, and much of whats left can be attributed to impurities and lack of education (and deliberate disinformation). Its significant even in the grimly fantastic company of propaganda and ideology surrounding drug use altogether, the only thing that comes close off the top of my head is crack.
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Jan 7, 2014 22:32
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Mr. Self Destruct posted:That said, the amount of stigma attached to methamphetamine use is absurd, to say nothing of the pseudoscience that pervades the associated mythology, and the problems commonly associated with its use are nearly entirely due to poverty and class issues rather than any innate property of the drug, and much of whats left can be attributed to impurities and lack of education (and deliberate disinformation). Its significant even in the grimly fantastic company of propaganda and ideology surrounding drug use altogether, the only thing that comes close off the top of my head is crack.
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Jan 7, 2014 22:45
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I'm curious, to the people who think that the ending was "too perfect"; How do you think the show could have ended differently with less "perfection" and still be as satisfying (or maybe even moreso)?
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Jan 7, 2014 22:50
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d0grent posted:I'm curious, to the people who think that the ending was "too perfect"; How do you think the show could have ended differently with less "perfection" and still be as satisfying (or maybe even moreso)? Honestly, I would've been fine with even more perfection; or at least more of a wrap up for Jessie. Clearly Vince has always seen it as Walt's show alone, but it's much more of an ensemble to me. One of the things I would've liked to see - somehow - would be Hanks funeral.
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Jan 7, 2014 23:02
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d0grent posted:I'm curious, to the people who think that the ending was "too perfect"; How do you think the show could have ended differently with less "perfection" and still be as satisfying (or maybe even moreso)?
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Jan 7, 2014 23:08
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With regards to Jesse, the message I took from the show is that Walt (and, by extension, the audience) are nothing but a poisonous, corrupting influence on him. As long as we watch, nothing good will happen to Jesse - so the best thing he can do is get the hell off our screens and not tell us where he's going.
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Jan 7, 2014 23:08
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:I don't want Walt to get the money to Flynn. I know we didn't see Flynn take the money, and it's possible he figured out it was from his dad and he refused to take it, but I don't like that Walt got to die thinking he had managed to get around 8 million dollars to his son. Walt always talked about how it couldn't be all for nothing, and I don't like that he got his wish. This is why my explanation of Flynn being smart and morally centered and refusing the money on principal makes perfect sense. If you can believe that, then it really was all for nothing and the final scene becomes hilariously tragic.
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Jan 7, 2014 23:18
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:I don't want Walt to get the money to Flynn. I know we didn't see Flynn take the money, and it's possible he figured out it was from his dad and he refused to take it, but I don't like that Walt got to die thinking he had managed to get around 8 million dollars to his son. Walt always talked about how it couldn't be all for nothing, and I don't like that he got his wish. WampaLord posted:This is why my explanation of Flynn being smart and morally centered and refusing the money on principal makes perfect sense. If you can believe that, then it really was all for nothing and the final scene becomes hilariously tragic.
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Jan 7, 2014 23:20
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No Wave posted:When was Flynn ever smart? That scene where he tells Walt that it was okay that he cried in front of his son, because at least he was being real. That's pretty loving smart. Intelligence isn't just school performance. WampaLord fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Jan 7, 2014 |
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Jan 7, 2014 23:22
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No Wave posted:Because in Breaking Bad, justice always prevails! He designed that website didn't he? That's.. something.
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Jan 7, 2014 23:27
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I definitely think Flynn would take the money and I'm really happy about that. To me, if Walt hadn't got the cash to his son it would've been simply to tell the audience that "crime doesn't pay" which is an overly simple, silly message for the show to end on. I feel like a lot of the show would've seemed far too cynical and bitter if there hadn't been that little victory. The reason why I think Flynn would take the money is simply that he would've had to live a few years in poverty, watching his mother and sister suffer through the same. In a way I'd like to think that Flynn would take the money because he wouldn't fall into the same trap his father did; pride. He'd recognize that the cash could do a lot to fix his fathers mistakes.
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Jan 7, 2014 23:41
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PriorMarcus posted:I definitely think Flynn would take the money and I'm really happy about that. I really like that actually. If Flynn took Walt's "drug money" it really would have gave him the message that "doing illegal/bad things for the sake of getting rich is worth it." The whole series was one big G.I. Joe "Knowing is half the battle." segment
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Jan 7, 2014 23:58
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Even if he takes the money, Flynn won't think it's worth the ultimate cost. He would much rather be living a simple middle class wife with his parents intact than what he ends up with.
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Jan 8, 2014 02:01
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Yeah, that tiny little victory is nothing compared to what he's put his family through. He didn't want to leave $8 million to Flynn; he wanted to leave $80 million. Walt's ultimate plan did not work.
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Jan 8, 2014 02:32
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Apollodorus posted:Yeah, it always seemed to me like HS teaching was an easy job he settled for because of the other, very challenging circumstances in his life - some of which he legitimately fell into (perhaps Junior was unplanned too? his cerebral palsy certainly was) and others of which he probably had some hand in causing. Even if it is true that Walt turned away from entrepreneurship and tenure-track academia because he was settling down to be a family man, there are still a lot of stable jobs for a skilled chemist that pay way more than teaching high school. I don't buy the explanation that it was solely out of concern for his family, when everything hinted about Walt's past indicates he had the ability to do just about anything he wanted.
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Jan 8, 2014 03:07
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escape artist posted:Yeah, that tiny little victory is nothing compared to what he's put his family through. He didn't want to leave $8 million to Flynn; he wanted to leave $80 million. Walt's ultimate plan did not work. Now if Walt had left, say, around $700,000 I would love that, because, despite being a sizeable amount of money it would be less than his initial goal. Edit: The reason Walt is a high school teacher despite being a genius chemist is that the premise requires it, just like how the premise of Citizen Kane requires someone to know his last words even though he dies alone. SpiderHyphenMan fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Jan 8, 2014 |
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Jan 8, 2014 03:15
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escape artist posted:Yeah, that tiny little victory is nothing compared to what he's put his family through. He didn't want to leave $8 million to Flynn; he wanted to leave $80 million. Walt's ultimate plan did not work. This is why I'm okay with the $8 million. Walt failed, but in time his last great plan will succeed and his family just might be able to recover, and Flynn might be able to live a life doing good. It's a lot more optimistic and I'd like to think a lot more in line with the shows divine presence. Walt accepted his sins and he was able to get home, now if Walt Jr. can accept his fathers sins as well maybe it won't of all been for nothing and he can build a new home, for a lot of people. Imagine Walt Jr making sure his family lived comfortably and then opened up charities or drug rehabilitation programs. That's what I think Walt Jr would do, given the time. I just think the show was more optimistic in the end than "Nah, all for nothin" and I like that.
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Jan 8, 2014 03:33
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:Edit: The reason Walt is a high school teacher despite being a genius chemist is that the premise requires it, just like how the premise of Citizen Kane requires someone to know his last words even though he dies alone. To ask why Walt stopped chasing the dollars is like asking why Kane said Rosebud - which isn't a dumb question at all. PriorMarcus posted:This is why I'm okay with the $8 million. Walt failed, but in time his last great plan will succeed and his family just might be able to recover, and Flynn might be able to live a life doing good. No Wave fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Jan 8, 2014 |
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Jan 8, 2014 03:40
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:Edit: The reason Walt is a high school teacher despite being a genius chemist is that the premise requires it, just like how the premise of Citizen Kane requires someone to know his last words even though he dies alone. I don't think it necessarily has to be just this. It's very common in the real world for people who have high IQs or mental health issues (or both) to end up working dead-end jobs they are very overqualified for. In at least one interview Cranston alluded to some of this, and I have sympathy for the interpretation.
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Jan 8, 2014 03:45
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I get the impression Walt did some Heisenberg esque workplace manipulation at a couple of old workplaces in an attempt to climb the ladder, failed dismally, lost jobs and sank into a depression that saw him work as a high school chem teacher for a decade. Breaking Bad is the joyous story of one man overcoming that depression. 
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Jan 8, 2014 03:56
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hiddenmovement posted:I get the impression Walt did some Heisenberg esque workplace manipulation at a couple of old workplaces in an attempt to climb the ladder, failed dismally, lost jobs and sank into a depression that saw him work as a high school chem teacher for a decade. Breaking Bad is the joyous story of one man overcoming that depression. I think this is why Walt resonates with a lot of goons, to be honest. Many of us have odd profitable talents but we also can see we might end up where Walt is at the beginning of the show if we don't watch out for it
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Jan 8, 2014 05:05
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CaptainHollywood posted:I think what will keep Breaking Bad's legacy is that while the ending will get spoiled for future viewers ("Walt dies at the end")- it's not detrimental to the show where it takes away enjoyment. Is Walt dieing really that much of a spoiler? The very first episode Walt gets told he has two years left and that's assuming everything goes well.
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Jan 8, 2014 05:06
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hiddenmovement posted:I get the impression Walt did some Heisenberg esque workplace manipulation at a couple of old workplaces in an attempt to climb the ladder, failed dismally, lost jobs and sank into a depression that saw him work as a high school chem teacher for a decade. Breaking Bad is the joyous story of one man overcoming that depression. I don't really get that impression. Walt breaks bad at the start of the series, not before. From the explanation on how he just kind of ditched out on his relationship with Gretchen and Gray Matter after that without any sort of fight implied, to the story about how he met Skyler, it seems like pre-BB Walt's big problem was passiveness and fear of taking any sort of big risks. Pre-BB Walter certainly had problems but between the flashbacks we've seen(including the Hank minisode, which is hilarious) and the glimpses into his pre-cancer teaching career and home life, he really comes off like a good guy who turned to crime under the right set of circumstances. It kind of takes away from Walt's slippery slope into criminality if there's no real starting point.
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Jan 8, 2014 05:19
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Lutha Mahtin posted:Even if it is true that Walt turned away from entrepreneurship and tenure-track academia because he was settling down to be a family man, there are still a lot of stable jobs for a skilled chemist that pay way more than teaching high school. I don't buy the explanation that it was solely out of concern for his family, when everything hinted about Walt's past indicates he had the ability to do just about anything he wanted. Yeah, but at all those jobs you are still pretty much a monkey. Even if you are the scientific director*, the people in finance and everybody else on the "business" end (Like the CEO and COO) get to boss you around. Walt would behave the same in that situation as he does working for Gus. Which is also probably why he wouldn't be able to get a gig as a director off the bat. Again, the Grey Matter situation would be a pretty big blight. At least as a High School teacher, he got to be emperor over his little domain. A pathetic domain devoid of respect, but he still had control. Walt craves respect but he needs control. Even if his students don't respect him, his position still makes them his monkeys and he can make them dance. Which is also why having to dance for one of them at the car wash was so maddening. * Does not apply to start-ups, but given what happened at Grey Matter, let's suppose he's "once burned, twice shy". Walt doesn't take failure well, so that is in keeping with his character.
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Jan 8, 2014 07:22
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Walt probably ended up as a high school teacher because he was unable to work with anyone he felt threatened by. If you look at his behavior through the whole series, his "career" is just a progression of taking out people who he feels might pose a threat to his dominance. In a high school classroom, he is essentially God. It is his class and his lab, and he doesn't have to share it with any other scientists like he would if he had stayed working at a large company. Walt can't handle being anything but the big fish in the small pond. He would rather rule over a class of high school students than be an internationally renowned chemist working alongside another internationally renowned chemist. The only reason his partnership with Jessie lasted so long is because he never thought of Jessie as anything more than an incompetent gently caress-up.
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Jan 8, 2014 08:08
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:It's still more than the $5 million buyout option he had in 5a. That's only off by 30k which considering all that money is sitting in a bank account probably accruing interest, it's probably a nonissue.
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Jan 8, 2014 08:38
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Stairmaster posted:That's only off by 30k which considering all that money is sitting in a bank account probably accruing interest, it's probably a nonissue.
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Jan 8, 2014 08:57
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Personally I always felt that Walt genuinely liked being a teacher on some level, as seen in his interactions with Jesse and Todd. He seemed to be drawn to Jesse's potential and I think that was a big element of their relationship. I also recall that early on we saw him excitedly teaching subjects and he was really animated in that flashback talking about what makes up a person. So I don't think it was all about control and ego. Also, count me as another happy with the ending. I didn't hate Walt (at all really) enough to just want him to fail pointlessly in his small redemption. Mostly because that would screw over other characters. Going full tragedy would be super cruel to Skyler, Holly, Jesse and Flynn. I wanted Walt to take out the Nazi's, I wanted him to give Skyler a way out and give Marie closure, I wanted him to save Jesse and repair their relationship. And yeah, I wanted him to give his family the possibility to crawl out of the hole some time in the future. They don't deserve to get hosed over as badly as they did. So yeah, I guess like Walt I didn't want it to all have been for nothing. Having Walt die alone in the cabin like some people wanted would have been bleak and unsatisfying as gently caress and I'm really glad they didn't go there. Even if it would have been 'appropriate.'
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Jan 8, 2014 14:53
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Nephthys posted:Personally I always felt that Walt genuinely liked being a teacher on some level, as seen in his interactions with Jesse and Todd. He seemed to be drawn to Jesse's potential and I think that was a big element of their relationship. I also recall that early on we saw him excitedly teaching subjects and he was really animated in that flashback talking about what makes up a person. So I don't think it was all about control and ego. Right, that's why I like the read the series as Walt going to any and all lengths to make up for one of his greatest failures as a teacher. Jesse finally learns chemistry. Lutha Mahtin posted:I think this is why Walt resonates with a lot of goons, to be honest. Many of us have odd profitable talents but we also can see we might end up where Walt is at the beginning of the show if we don't watch out for it Good point! I had that experience as a high school teacher myself, before I started grad school - a process that has so far been humbling and difficult but leaves me feeling better at the end of the day.
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Jan 8, 2014 15:28
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Shbobdb posted:Yeah, but at all those jobs you are still pretty much a monkey. [...] At least as a High School teacher, he got to be emperor over his little domain. A pathetic domain devoid of respect, but he still had control. Walt craves respect but he needs control. mr. mephistopheles posted:Walt probably ended up as a high school teacher because he was unable to work with anyone he felt threatened by. If you look at his behavior through the whole series, his "career" is just a progression of taking out people who he feels might pose a threat to his dominance. In a high school classroom, he is essentially God. It is his class and his lab, and he doesn't have to share it with any other scientists like he would if he had stayed working at a large company. Walt can't handle being anything but the big fish in the small pond. He would rather rule over a class of high school students than be an internationally renowned chemist working alongside another internationally renowned chemist. I was going to go on in my post Shbobdb quoted to make a similar point, but I couldn't think of how to say it well. Clearly it was my expert setup that allowed you two to just knock it out of the park here, amirite 
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Jan 9, 2014 00:04
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PriorMarcus posted:He'd recognize that the cash could do a lot to fix his fathers mistakes. This is a great point. It wouldn't be hard to figure out the $8M from Gretchen and Elliot was actually from Walt. It doesn't even matter to me what decision Flynn would make in that scenario; it's kind of a poetic Catch 22. He either turns the money down out of the same prideful and offended sensibility Walt demonstrated when offered money in S1, or he accepts it and benefits from drug money, while ironically also proving he isn't as stubborn and rigidly egotistical as his father. Of course, I'd like to think he takes the money because Walt is dead...nothing Flynn can do will hurt him or prove him wrong anymore. The line in the sand Flynn drew means so much less when he's no longer making a point to his father. PriorMarcus posted:Honestly, I would've been fine with even more perfection; or at least more of a wrap up for Jessie. Clearly Vince has always seen it as Walt's show alone, but it's much more of an ensemble to me. Someone made a great observation along those lines. When we last see Jesse, he's speeding away from the compound in no particular direction, and lets out a cathartic scream that cuts off mid-scream. It's jarring and abrupt and unsatisfying. But this denial to the audience is kind of the perfect ending for Jesse...finally, he's no longer under Walt's thumb, and is no longer under ours, either. He's been so controlled and belittled and tormented for so long, it's almost like *we're* doing that to him as much as Walt is. The entire universe of Breaking Bad is one of decay and failure, to the point that even if Walt isn't involved, every plotline feels like it will end that way for some reason or another. Showing us what happens to Jesse would be placing the next chapter of his life into the same diseased world we've been watching for 5 seasons. That we *can't* see what happens next is the best evidence he might be happy.
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Jan 9, 2014 03:31
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PriorMarcus posted:Honestly, I would've been fine with even more perfection; or at least more of a wrap up for Jessie. I just saw this on Facebook and I choose to believe it's a direct sequel to BB.  http://www.imdb.com/video/imdb/vi2907023385
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Jan 9, 2014 06:54
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Star Platinum posted:I just saw this on Facebook and I choose to believe it's a direct sequel to BB. Did his voice break after he finished BB?
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Jan 9, 2014 12:52
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escape artist posted:Yeah, that tiny little victory is nothing compared to what he's put his family through. He didn't want to leave $8 million to Flynn; he wanted to leave $80 million. Walt's ultimate plan did not work. Yet to Season 1 Walt, that would have been a victory beyond his wildest expectations, so just because his Season 4 level ambition wasn't met, I still count the way it played out as a "victory."
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Jan 9, 2014 13:51
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