Bitcoin: We've reached the end of the postchain.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > Bitcoin: We've reached the end of the postchain.

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Dessert Rose: May 17, 2004; awoken in control of a lucid deep dream...

relevant

(GUIDs have a similar "non-renewable but abundant" quality)

# ? Feb 12, 2014 20:34

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# ? May 11, 2024 21:26

pseudorandom name: May 6, 2007

so the theory is that the magic the gathering online exchange lost all their coins through incompetence and protocol defects -- can this be verified externally?

# ? Feb 12, 2014 20:35

Cantorsdust: Aug 10, 2008; Infinitely many points, but zero length.

pseudorandom name posted:

so the theory is that the magic the gathering online exchange lost all their coins through incompetence and protocol defects -- can this be verified externally?

nope, unregulated!

# ? Feb 12, 2014 20:37

anthonypants: May 6, 2007; by Nyc_Tattoo; Dinosaur Gum

a collision attack will be found long, long before people start significantly finding collisions by accident

like someone else said, there's a reason it's called SHA-2

# ? Feb 12, 2014 20:51

Boxturret: Oct 3, 2013; Don't ask me about Sonic the Hedgehog diaper fetish

i thought there was a collision a while ago? something to do with the wallet generator not being totally random i think

# ? Feb 12, 2014 20:54

anthonypants: May 6, 2007; by Nyc_Tattoo; Dinosaur Gum

pseudorandom name posted:

so the theory is that the magic the gathering online exchange lost all their coins through incompetence and protocol defects -- can this be verified externally?

they could post their wallet address(es) so everyone could see how many butts they still have, but those addresses are stored in a cold wallet so you'll just have to trust them

# ? Feb 12, 2014 20:54

anthonypants: May 6, 2007; by Nyc_Tattoo; Dinosaur Gum

Boxturret posted:

i thought there was a collision a while ago? something to do with the wallet generator not being totally random i think

that was an android lol with its pseudo-random number generator

# ? Feb 12, 2014 20:55

surebet: Jan 10, 2013; ａｖａｔａｒ
ｓｐｅｃｉａｌｉｓｔ

Dessert Rose posted:

you arent

we're literally talking about the heat death of the universe before you even get to the birthday problem

fair enough, though i still question the validity of using new addresses willy nilly outside of a tumbler situation

# ? Feb 12, 2014 20:56

pseudorandom name: May 6, 2007

anthonypants posted:

they could post their wallet address(es) so everyone could see how many butts they still have, but those addresses are stored in a cold wallet so you'll just have to trust them

aren't these public knowledge by virtue of people depositing coins in their magic the gathering online exchange accounts?

and what's a cold wallet?

# ? Feb 12, 2014 20:59

Adult Sword Owner: Jun 19, 2011; u deserve diploma for sublime comedy expertise

a wallet on a disconnected server so if when they get hacked they lose minimum coins

# ? Feb 12, 2014 20:59

bucketmouse: Aug 16, 2004; we con-trol the ho-ri-zon-tal
we con-trol the verrr-ti-cal

surebet posted:

let me rephrase that

he spent his whole 40 hours a week * 12 week contract installing linux on a bunch of boxes

the gently caress took so long

what the gently caress, that's like maybe 6 hours work tops assuming the hardware is standardized

# ? Feb 12, 2014 21:00

Adult Sword Owner: Jun 19, 2011; u deserve diploma for sublime comedy expertise

probably one copy of the media and had to do it while not getting caught

# ? Feb 12, 2014 21:02

Adult Sword Owner: Jun 19, 2011; u deserve diploma for sublime comedy expertise

also it was probably a bare idiot image and he would have to go in and install "optional" things such as a web browser

# ? Feb 12, 2014 21:02

surebet: Jan 10, 2013; ａｖａｔａｒ
ｓｐｅｃｉａｌｉｓｔ

transfatphobic posted:

also it was probably a bare idiot image and he would have to go in and install "optional" things such as a web browser

that and just general loving around was the consensus

# ? Feb 12, 2014 21:12

Shifty Pony: Dec 28, 2004; Up ta somethin'

cold wallet is a bit of a misnomer really. all it really means is that the private key isn't kept in an online form but instead printed out and stored somewhere.

you are able to look up and see how much is in any "cold wallet" by looking at the blockchain (because the blockchain is just a glorified bloated transaction ledger) but unless you know a weakness in the elliptic curve crypto that is used in the public-private key system of bitcoin that is all you can do unless you have physical access to the offline private key.

just cold wallet sounds more cyberpunk than "offline backup".

# ? Feb 12, 2014 21:15

anthonypants: May 6, 2007; by Nyc_Tattoo; Dinosaur Gum

Shifty Pony posted:

cold wallet is a bit of a misnomer really. all it really means is that the private key isn't kept in an online form. you are able to look up and see how much is in any "cold wallet" by looking at the blockchain (because the blockchain is just a glorified bloated transaction ledger) but unless you know a weakness in the elliptic curve crypto that is used in the public-private key system of bitcoin that is all you can do unless you have physical access to the offline private key.

just cold wallet sounds more cyberpunk than "offline backup".

also it makes it sound More Secure, and like they know what they are doing

# ? Feb 12, 2014 21:17

Robawesome: Jul 22, 2005

Just had a WONDERFUL experience with a localbitcoins transaction. (self.Bitcoin)

submitted 11 minutes ago by killhamster

I now have 7 bitcoins to my name! Decided to buy them this week, so I checked out localbitcoins.

Got in touch via Skype with a guy that wanted to sell 7 bitcoins, I low-balled him at $700/each, it seemed like he needed the money so he agreed. We met in the local walmart parking lot late last night and he asked me to show him the money first. I did, all $4900 of it. Actually $5000, as I had forgotten to take out a bill, but I told him it was a tip. He transferred the 7 bitcoins to my wallet and once the transaction was confirmed I suddenly pulled a pocket knife on the guy. It was only like 2" long. He couldn't run anywhere because he was like 400 pounds and his rascal was looking pretty worn out. I ordered him to give me back the $5000. He started to piss his pants which made me a little uncomfortable, but then he handed it over.

As I drove off, he was staring pretty hard at my car, probably trying to read my plates, but the lenses on his glasses were probably too covered in pizza grease for him to make anything out. I imagine he went straight home and is now pretending the police give a poo poo about his situation. I sure am glad bitcoin doesn't have chargebacks, otherwise I'd be out $5000 and only have 7 bitcoins to show for it.

I'm so happy with myself and my wife is proud of me because we just made $5000. I don't know what I'm going to do with it. Such a wonderful experience.

[�]NH3Mechanic 1 point 4 minutes ago

I just had a Wonderful experience on craiglist. A gentleman offered to buy my High end PC for $5000. I brought the computer and he the $5000. I then pulled a knife on him and took my computer back along with the cash, good thing the USD doesn't have chargeback otherwise I would be out $5000 and only have my computer

# ? Feb 12, 2014 21:19

creatine: Jan 27, 2012

# ? Feb 12, 2014 21:21

jony ive aces: Jun 14, 2012; designer of the lomarf car; Buglord

Robawesome posted:

Just had a WONDERFUL experience with a localbitcoins transaction. (self.Bitcoin)

submitted 11 minutes ago by killhamster

I now have 7 bitcoins to my name! Decided to buy them this week, so I checked out localbitcoins.

Got in touch via Skype with a guy that wanted to sell 7 bitcoins, I low-balled him at $700/each, it seemed like he needed the money so he agreed. We met in the local walmart parking lot late last night and he asked me to show him the money first. I did, all $4900 of it. Actually $5000, as I had forgotten to take out a bill, but I told him it was a tip. He transferred the 7 bitcoins to my wallet and once the transaction was confirmed I suddenly pulled a pocket knife on the guy. It was only like 2" long. He couldn't run anywhere because he was like 400 pounds and his rascal was looking pretty worn out. I ordered him to give me back the $5000. He started to piss his pants which made me a little uncomfortable, but then he handed it over.

As I drove off, he was staring pretty hard at my car, probably trying to read my plates, but the lenses on his glasses were probably too covered in pizza grease for him to make anything out. I imagine he went straight home and is now pretending the police give a poo poo about his situation. I sure am glad bitcoin doesn't have chargebacks, otherwise I'd be out $5000 and only have 7 bitcoins to show for it.

I'm so happy with myself and my wife is proud of me because we just made $5000. I don't know what I'm going to do with it. Such a wonderful experience.

Robawesome posted:

Same

# ? Feb 12, 2014 21:21

Just-In-Timeberlake: Aug 18, 2003

Shifty Pony posted:

cold wallet is a bit of a misnomer really. all it really means is that the private key isn't kept in an online form but instead printed out and stored somewhere.

you are able to look up and see how much is in any "cold wallet" by looking at the blockchain (because the blockchain is just a glorified bloated transaction ledger) but unless you know a weakness in the elliptic curve crypto that is used in the public-private key system of bitcoin that is all you can do unless you have physical access to the offline private key.

just cold wallet sounds more cyberpunk than "offline backup".

i too, love the fact that at any time someone can see how much "money" i have

# ? Feb 12, 2014 21:22

ryde: Sep 9, 2011; God I love young girls

anthonypants posted:

i want to believe someone's implementation of the hash generation leaves it open to more frequent collisions though

like that android one

I had a coworker who was playing around with Doge, and claims that he generated an address that was already in use. It had about $4k in doge in it. We assumed (well assuming he wasnt making it up) that this was an issue with the RNG, but they're using Open SSL libraries for that.

# ? Feb 12, 2014 21:24

jony ive aces: Jun 14, 2012; designer of the lomarf car; Buglord

Endless Mike posted:

i wish i could live for 6 months on $4900.

i assumed it was $4900 on top of a minimum wage job :911:

# ? Feb 12, 2014 21:24

Adult Sword Owner: Jun 19, 2011; u deserve diploma for sublime comedy expertise

Robawesome posted:

Just had a WONDERFUL experience with a localbitcoins transaction. (self.Bitcoin)

submitted 11 minutes ago by killhamster

I now have 7 bitcoins to my name! Decided to buy them this week, so I checked out localbitcoins.

Got in touch via Skype with a guy that wanted to sell 7 bitcoins, I low-balled him at $700/each, it seemed like he needed the money so he agreed. We met in the local walmart parking lot late last night and he asked me to show him the money first. I did, all $4900 of it. Actually $5000, as I had forgotten to take out a bill, but I told him it was a tip. He transferred the 7 bitcoins to my wallet and once the transaction was confirmed I suddenly pulled a pocket knife on the guy. It was only like 2" long. He couldn't run anywhere because he was like 400 pounds and his rascal was looking pretty worn out. I ordered him to give me back the $5000. He started to piss his pants which made me a little uncomfortable, but then he handed it over.

As I drove off, he was staring pretty hard at my car, probably trying to read my plates, but the lenses on his glasses were probably too covered in pizza grease for him to make anything out. I imagine he went straight home and is now pretending the police give a poo poo about his situation. I sure am glad bitcoin doesn't have chargebacks, otherwise I'd be out $5000 and only have 7 bitcoins to show for it.

I'm so happy with myself and my wife is proud of me because we just made $5000. I don't know what I'm going to do with it. Such a wonderful experience.

[�]NH3Mechanic 1 point 4 minutes ago

I just had a Wonderful experience on craiglist. A gentleman offered to buy my High end PC for $5000. I brought the computer and he the $5000. I then pulled a knife on him and took my computer back along with the cash, good thing the USD doesn't have chargeback otherwise I would be out $5000 and only have my computer

# ? Feb 12, 2014 21:25

Just-In-Timeberlake: Aug 18, 2003

ryde posted:

I had a coworker who was playing around with Doge, and claims that he generated an address that was already in use. It had about $4k in doge in it. We assumed (well assuming he wasnt making it up) that this was an issue with the RNG, but they're using Open SSL libraries for that.

did he clear it out? that's what a true believer would have done.

# ? Feb 12, 2014 21:26

ryde: Sep 9, 2011; God I love young girls

Just-In-Timeberlake posted:

did he clear it out? that's what a true believer would have done.

Yes.

# ? Feb 12, 2014 21:26

Just-In-Timeberlake: Aug 18, 2003

ryde posted:

Yes.

ayn rand sheds a tear

# ? Feb 12, 2014 21:27

killhamster: Apr 15, 2004; SCAMMER
Hero Member

Robawesome posted:

Just had a WONDERFUL experience with a localbitcoins transaction. (self.Bitcoin)

submitted 11 minutes ago by killhamster

I now have 7 bitcoins to my name! Decided to buy them this week, so I checked out localbitcoins.

Got in touch via Skype with a guy that wanted to sell 7 bitcoins, I low-balled him at $700/each, it seemed like he needed the money so he agreed. We met in the local walmart parking lot late last night and he asked me to show him the money first. I did, all $4900 of it. Actually $5000, as I had forgotten to take out a bill, but I told him it was a tip. He transferred the 7 bitcoins to my wallet and once the transaction was confirmed I suddenly pulled a pocket knife on the guy. It was only like 2" long. He couldn't run anywhere because he was like 400 pounds and his rascal was looking pretty worn out. I ordered him to give me back the $5000. He started to piss his pants which made me a little uncomfortable, but then he handed it over.

As I drove off, he was staring pretty hard at my car, probably trying to read my plates, but the lenses on his glasses were probably too covered in pizza grease for him to make anything out. I imagine he went straight home and is now pretending the police give a poo poo about his situation. I sure am glad bitcoin doesn't have chargebacks, otherwise I'd be out $5000 and only have 7 bitcoins to show for it.

I'm so happy with myself and my wife is proud of me because we just made $5000. I don't know what I'm going to do with it. Such a wonderful experience.

[�]NH3Mechanic 1 point 4 minutes ago

I just had a Wonderful experience on craiglist. A gentleman offered to buy my High end PC for $5000. I brought the computer and he the $5000. I then pulled a knife on him and took my computer back along with the cash, good thing the USD doesn't have chargeback otherwise I would be out $5000 and only have my computer

[�]im-a-fat-loser [-1] -1 points 2 minutes ago

Wow. Not funny.

# ? Feb 12, 2014 21:27

kiwid: Sep 30, 2013

jony ive aces posted:

i assumed it was $4900 on top of a minimum wage job

it was

[�]im-a-fat-loser[S] 3 points 3 hours ago

> Unrelated, where exactly do you live that $5k is enough for rent and food four 2 people for 6 months?

I still have a regular job but it doesn't pay well so the extra $5k was to make things easier on us.

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# ? Feb 12, 2014 21:28

madeupfred: Oct 10, 2011; by FactsAreUseless

How to flip a coin, as described by a Bitcoiner

quote:

Otherwise, it depends on your motive for flipping the coin. When I flip a coin, it's generally because I want to find out how I feel; if I'm disappointed by the result, I know to do the opposite. If you want to generate a random bit, using Bitcoin is much better than using a physical coin.

Physical coins have bias. They are difficult to inspect, as is the flipping apparatus. Both can only be inspected by entities nearby in spacetime, and no record can be taken seriously (any video could easily be doctored.)
For comparison, Bitcoin flips are indelibly recorded and indisputable to anyone with access to the Bitcoin network for as long as it lasts.

If little security is required, one monitors P2Pool and takes the first partial collision one sees, hashes it, and XORs the result down to a bit. Or a byte if one wants a 16 sided die. Or uses the hash as a seed for a pseudorandom number generator and use the bitstream to populate the random component of your decision tree.

If some security is required, one defines a few parameters before the flip, for instance STARTBLOCK, ENDBLOCK, and HASHCOUNT. HASCOUNT is chosen to correspond to a reasonable amount of hashing, say 1 minute of scrypt. All the block hashes between STARTBLOCK and ENDBLOCK are concatenated and hashed HASHCOUNT times and the result is XORed down to a bit.

For nation state scale disputes, STARTBLOCK and ENDBLOCK may be days or weeks apart and HASHCOUNT may correspond to a couple of days' worth of hashing.

This is one of many scenarios in which Bitcoin obviates trust between parties disconnected in spacetime. At nation state scales, one's state would have to do at least a little mining to stay in the game.

It also handles most transferable digital asset problems.

# ? Feb 12, 2014 21:28

double sulk: Jul 2, 2010

killhamster posted:

[�]im-a-fat-loser [-1] -1 points 2 minutes ago

Wow. Not funny.

lmao

# ? Feb 12, 2014 21:29

jony ive aces: Jun 14, 2012; designer of the lomarf car; Buglord

kiwid posted:

[�]im-a-fat-loser[S] 3 points 3 hours ago

> Unrelated, where exactly do you live that $5k is enough for rent and food four 2 people for 6 months?

I still have a regular job but it doesn't pay well so the extra $5k was to make things easier on us.

free market bitch :ancap:

# ? Feb 12, 2014 21:31

Just-In-Timeberlake: Aug 18, 2003

madeupfred posted:

How to flip a coin, as described by a Bitcoiner

this guy must have been a hit at a superbowl party when the coin toss happened.

# ? Feb 12, 2014 21:33

born on a buy you: Aug 14, 2005; Odd Fullback
Bird Gang
Sack Them All

what kind of moron says 'can only be inspected by entities nearby in spacetime' without questioning themselves?

# ? Feb 12, 2014 21:35

Darkman Fanpage: Jul 4, 2012

Robawesome posted:

o-m-g

Just had a terrible experience with a localbitcoins transaction. (self.Bitcoin)

submitted 6 minutes ago by im-a-fat-loser

I have 7 bitcoins to my name and decided to sell them this week because I needed money for rent and food and I just don't see bitcoin go up in price any time soon. I figured I'd dump them all on localbitcoins and I'd be financially ok for half a year or so.

Anyway, I got in touch via skype with a guy that wanted to buy all 7 of my bitcoins for $700/each. It was a little lower than I wanted but I desperately needed the money so I agreed. We met in the local walmart parking lot late last night and I asked him to show me the money first. He did, he had all $4900. Actually he had $5000 and was "tipping" me the extra $100. I transferred the 7 bitcoins to his wallet and once the transaction was confirmed he suddenly pulled a huge knife on me. It was like 7 inches long. I couldn't run anywhere because I was half in my car with the door open and he was standing in the door way. He ordered me to hand back over the $5000. I hesitated but he started getting a bit aggressive so I had to hand it over as I was afraid for my life.

He ran to his car and took off and as I tried to get his plate, noticed he didn't actually have any plates on his car. I should have loving noticed this before I did the transaction but I didn't. Maybe it was because it was dark out. I quickly drove to the police station and filed a report but I'm doubting they'll get my money back now. Sometimes I wish bitcoin did support chargebacks because I wouldn't be out $5000 right now.

I'm so angry with myself and my wife is mad at me because we're out the $5000. I don't know what I'm going to do. Such a lovely experience.

im the moron that conducts cash transactions in a walmart parking lot late at night

# ? Feb 12, 2014 21:40

Ron Paul Atreides: Apr 19, 2012; Uyghurs situation in Xinjiang? Just a police action, do not fret. Not ongoing genocide like in EVIL Canada.

I am definitely not a tankie.

See, that's something that really gets me, the whole 'really low chance of collision' thing. while the statistical likely hood of ever finding an address already in use is negligible to the point of rendering deliberate attempts pointless, it still has a none zero chance of happening. which is fine for a system that had a central administration that could be appealed to in the unlikely event, but no such thing exist in the Butts protocols, so if you end up unlucky enough to get cleaned out by a random chance, you have no one to appeal to and no way of proving who did it. That wouldn't give me faith in a system, besides the possibility of RNG implementation being flawed.

e: and things like vanity addresses or that brain wallet poo poo.

# ? Feb 12, 2014 21:41

theflyingorc: Jun 28, 2008; ANY GOOD OPINIONS THIS POSTER CLAIMS TO HAVE ARE JUST PROOF THAT BULLYING WORKS; Young Orc

quote:

[�]NH3Mechanic 1 point 4 minutes ago

I just had a Wonderful experience on craiglist. A gentleman offered to buy my High end PC for $5000. I brought the computer and he the $5000. I then pulled a knife on him and took my computer back along with the cash, good thing the USD doesn't have chargeback otherwise I would be out $5000 and only have my computer

Yes, it turns out that using Bitcoin is exactly as bad as using cash for transactions, except the police MIGHT actually make an effort to find the person who stole your cash!

They are very comparable in terms of secure-ness, though.

# ? Feb 12, 2014 21:41

Boxturret: Oct 3, 2013; Don't ask me about Sonic the Hedgehog diaper fetish

Samurai Quack posted:

See, that's something that really gets me, the whole 'really low chance of collision' thing. while the statistical likely hood of ever finding an address already in use is negligible to the point of rendering deliberate attempts pointless, it still has a none zero chance of happening. which is fine for a system that had a central administration that could be appealed to in the unlikely event, but no such thing exist in the Butts protocols, so if you end up unlucky enough to get cleaned out by a random chance, you have no one to appeal to and no way of proving who did it. That wouldn't give me faith in a system, besides the possibility of RNG implementation being flawed.

im just going to say heat death of the universe alot

# ? Feb 12, 2014 21:42

fool of sound: Oct 10, 2012

threefive posted:

what kind of moron says 'can only be inspected by entities nearby in spacetime' without questioning themselves?

fishmech?

# ? Feb 12, 2014 21:44

ArchWizard: Mar 27, 2009; There's the Roy I know ~~and love~~.

Darkman Fanpage posted:

im the moron that conducts cash transactions in a walmart parking lot late at night

only agree to meet in a safe place like a bank lobby ps end the fed

# ? Feb 12, 2014 21:45

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# ? May 11, 2024 21:26

Dr. Honked: Jan 9, 2011; eat it you slaaaaaaag

i don't ever step outside my house because there's a non-zero number of meteorites that impact the earth's surface per year.

# ? Feb 12, 2014 21:46

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > Bitcoin: We've reached the end of the postchain.

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